How Many More?

The longer I live, the more I realize that the MTF TG population is much larger than I had believed. Over the last 10 years my idea on size of the population has continued to increase.

I remember when I was very young and up through my early 40s that I thought I was the only person in the world with such a strong desire to be transgendered. I thought for sure there was something strange about me, and it was my little secret. Then I started to read about others who had similar beliefs and desires as me. Then the internet opened up and whole world of information with it. I realized I was by no means alone and actually part of a much larger population. And even better, it was acceptable, at least in certain environments, to live my life as a transgendered person. I would have never thought that possible 10 years ago.

Now I start to wonder how many there are of us in the general population? I've read some estimates that from 5 to 10 percent of the male population may have some TG tendencies. I have no idea of knowing whether those figures are realistic or not, it may be lower or higher. But it makes me wonder how many other people out there live their lives without being able to understand why they feel TG urges. Or those that don't understand and suppress the feeling. Or even worse, those that have those feelings and don't know any other way of dealing with them than hostility, intolerance or even abuse to others who are TG.

What do you all think about this? Am I way off base here or is there something to this?

May be that 100% of men are TG to some level but just won't admit it? And there in lies the problems... You will never get an acurate count...

Prior to the internet and a few good books I thought the same way, that I was the only man that looked at a woman's dress and thought it looked good and her followed by wondering how it would look and feel on me too.

My research on the matter comes up with around 10% as well although I firmly believe that 50% of statistics are made up on the spot :D

Karren,

I've thought that at times too, that perhaps 100% of men may have at least those tendencies, but thought that might be way controversial. For instance, I have noticed that some of my male acquaintences and family that get "dressed" for halloween fun look way too smiley and happy in that frilly dress.

Even if it was 5% of the population, can you imagine how many millions of males have these feelings across the globe? Could totally redefine the commercial demographics market for sales of makeup, womens clothes, perfume, shoes, forms, etc.

If you use TG to include all the gay, bi, TS as well as just CD'ers, then yeah, I'd guess about 10% is probably about right. There are probably many more who have had an isolated curiosity, but that was as far as they experienced it. As above, we'll never know. It's not something that 99% of 'straight' men will ever admit to.

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Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

May be that 100% of men are TG to some level but just won't admit it? And there in lies the problems... You will never get an acurate count...

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Totally agree with this, I would suggest all male children below a certain age would play dress up, wear make up, etc etc. not until parents and society imprint gender roles onto them do they have opinions either way. I would also suggest though that not all would grow up and continue.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

It's not something that 99% of 'straight' men will ever admit to.

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There lay the crux of the problem, only a man totally at ease with his sexuality would admit to most things. I would suggest 99% of 'straight' men, aren't 100% straight!

The internet has really helped to bring the TG/CD community together and show its real numbers. I believe it has something to do with the relative anonymity of the internet, being able to talk about it without being readily identifiable.

Lots of Love,
Miss Kara

[QUOTE=Nigella23;1975494]Totally agree with this, I would suggest all male children below a certain age would play dress up, wear make up, etc etc. not until parents and society imprint gender roles onto them do they have opinions either way. I would also suggest though that not all would grow up and continue.

Excellent point Nigella. I think you are on to something here. Perhaps there is also a matter of how strong this tendency is when a male child is born. Those with the strongest tendencies will continue in their lives as TG while those with weaker tendencies may be changed by societal or other pressures.

Beats me Hon. It seems some folks need an anvil to fall on their heads to "get it" though.:)

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Originally Posted by theresa

Now I start to wonder how many there are of us in the general population? I've read some estimates that from 5 to 10 percent of the male population may have some TG tendencies. I have no idea of knowing whether those figures are realistic or not, it may be lower or higher. But it makes me wonder how many other people out there live their lives without being able to understand why they feel TG urges. Or those that don't understand and suppress the feeling. Or even worse, those that have those feelings and don't know any other way of dealing with them than hostility, intolerance or even abuse to others who are TG.

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[SIZE="2"]I assume there are many people that have transgendered tendencies, running the gamut from casual or on-a-whim to very serious or even unwanted behavior. Whenever they try to estimate the number of us in the general population, you have to wonder how the information is acquired in the first place. How many males would answer such a survey, or be perfectly honest with their responses? What if the interviewer looked unsympathetic or uninterested – would you share your private secrets with such a person? If asked, I would say, “None of your business,” so I would not be included in the findings, slipping through the cracks yet again. With this in mind, I think there are a lot more of us out there than you think…

Here’s another tidbit for discussion – how many of us recognize transgendered behavior or feelings and act upon them? I’m sure there are many people who are not in touch with how they feel, preferring to deaden or discard any transgendered proclivities out of hand. After all, such ideas go against our assigned or impregnated gender roles, don’t they? For instance, I may get a thought about killing someone (I’m not going to say “I hear a voice in my head”), but I dismiss it, simply because I’m not a person who would kill someone, period. I know who I am, after all. In a similar fashion, if I was a “typical” male who suddenly had a thought about wearing panties, I may think about that for a minute and say “Nah! I can’t do that – I’m a male, and I have to maintain my maleness at all costs.” Does that person have TG tendencies? Would they admit to such a moment of gender “weakness?” I wonder…:thinking:

We’re living in a time of global confusion, where gender roles and values are being strengthened at the expense of feeling and common sense. “Are you with us?” seems to be the battle cry, and you can translate that as “Are you a man?” or, more accurately, “Are you a weakling? With this in mind, you may get an inaccurate picture of just how many TG or TG-sympathetic people there are in the world. The overall climate is not conducive to someone stepping forward and declaring their gender queer-ness, even though this is precisely what is needed in terms of compassion and understanding at this time. I would answer the call and gladly step forward into the storm of intolerance, but nobody has bothered to ask, so I assume they don’t care about us “different” types – out of sight, out of mind, so the mind remains darkened, not enlightened…:facepalm: [/SIZE]

I don't know what the stats are transgenered but I once heard that 25% of all males have at one time or another tried on girls or womens clothing. Peer pressure may have stopped them from going any further.

I always use the "10%" number when I'm counting people on the street, in the mall, at a concert...everywhere. It really makes me feel not alone when I imagine that of the hundred or so men I pass during my lunch-time walks around Cambridge, MA, ten of them might have been wearing panties, same as me. :)

I went to see the Trans-Siberian Orchestre a month ago, and I estimated that of the 8000 people there, there could have been as many as 400 panties-wearing men in that stadium with me. :)

The internet has been a great tool to bring us all together and give us a sense of community but the internet can also falsely overinflated the conceptual size of the population. 5% would be great - 1% seems more likely, if that. Of course with societal pressures, there my be a missed population. The good news, even with just 1%, that is still a very large population that has a need to purchase. Maybe that is why chains like VS have policies for CD friendliness, there is money there!

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Originally Posted by Nigella23

Totally agree with this, I would suggest all male children below a certain age would play dress up, wear make up, etc etc. not until parents and society imprint gender roles onto them do they have opinions either way. I would also suggest though that not all would grow up and continue.

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I agree.
But if you've ever seen the French film Ma Vie En Rose, there's the scene where the boy finally gets his long hair cut, and feels kind of violated and depressed, there is just something happening there. I'm not sure how many men can fully empathize with that feeling. It was kind of sad.

"Could totally redefine the commercial demographics market for sales of makeup, womens clothes, perfume, shoes, forms, etc."


I think that it already has had an effect on the sales targets as evidenced by the number of TG sites on the internet as well as the reception that CDs/TGs get at Nordstrom, Macy's, Lane Bryant, Penney's, and many small shops/boutiques.
Getting an accurate count or percentage is virtually impossible for many of the well-known inhibiting reasons, but is beginning to change (slowly) too.

Well Google has 4 million hits for crossdressing. However does anyone have a good idea of how to count the percentage of crossdressers in the population?
Is it the same century after century?
Is it the same in all countries and cultures?

I think I have noticed the same phenomenon. There appears to be an increasing interest in marketing to the CD community, possibly due to realization of the potential size of the market and potential for sales on the internet. I think this can only be a good thing long term for the Cd'g community.

Funny, I've been thinking about this problem the last couple of weeks.

10% of males walking around wearing panties seems extremely high to me. Maybe 10% have crossdressed in some way in the bedroom at some time. That number feels more logical, although I have no proof. I think we'd hear about it/see it/notice it in some way if the # was 10%.

Let's start with what we can observe- those TG folks (crossdressers to SRS transexuals) who are out and about. Last year I went to tri-S meetings. I met about 12 CDrs. This year I went to another group across town. I met 2 of the same folks plus another 10. So far that's about 22 people. Then I met a strictly social group, again of about 14 CDrs, with 2 overlap. Total=32. Add to that the one Walmart associate I saw there briefly (no pun intended) 2 years ago, plus the client in transition 6 years ago (if she's still in town), plus the TG I saw at the zoo last summer- OK, we're up to 35. Add in post-op TGs fully integrated in the populace over the years- maybe a 100?

So we're up to 135 TG folks willing to brave the open air. Let's add the ones on this forum from TX, and assume that most (90%) are closeted. Not having that # at hand, let's just throw one out of 1000, who, by now, if they have CD/TG tendencies enough to dress up semi-regularly they have joined the forum.

OK let's take our estimated 1200 CDrs/TG people and see how it compares to the population as a whole. There are roughly 6,000,000 people in the Dallas-Ft. Worth metropolitan area. 51% are female, so 49% are male, that makes 2,940,000 males. Let's say 1/2 of those are children (this number is definitely too big). We're down to 1,470,000 males 18+ (this # is probably higher in reality, further hurting our percentage of the population). 1200/1,470,000= 0.000816.

Sorry folks, looks like we are well below 1 in a 100. More like 1 in a thousand, and that's being generous.

Is my claim full of holes? Absolutely. Is it at least based on observation over an extended period (10 years), interacting with all sorts of people in 2 different industries in several locations throughout a large metro area? Yes.

Ways to improve my #s- get the real # of men (as a percentage of population) 18 and up. Poll psychiatrists/pastors/psychologists of the # of people counseled about gender ID problems, # of males undergoing hormone treatment for a more femme appearance, etc.

Chin up, shoulders back, chest out- time to get pretty and represent!

first you have to define what makes a TG (CD). Is it dress up, underdress, think about it, once twice, everyday?

If you got that then you would need honesty and that knocks out 90% of the males who wound rather pump septic tanks with a syphon hose than admit to anything that society doesn't consider masculine. And there is another problem. Most of what we consider masculine and feminine is society based. If you consider that makeup, heels and hose were all considered masculine 300 years ago, then what exactly is male or female adornment?

So until we get honesty about what men feel or would like to wear or what thoughts may have gone though their mind there will never be a number you can lay out there.

Heck we can't even get 50% here to come out and admit it outside this forum.

I dont know where I saw the stats at, but somewhere I seen that 1 in 6 men that come into a hospital emergency room are wearing an article of womens clothing. This would suggest that the percentage of TG men are higher than 10%, more like 16% to 17%. I wouldnt be surprised at all if this is true.

In any population the demographics are much the same. About ten (10) percent of the population fit into any group you may wish to consider. That is changing somewhat in the demographics of race but otherwise it is a given. If we include any man, regardless of age, it is highly likely he has thought about wearing femmine clothes. That does not in it's self make him a CD'r. But if he has acted on that thought, even for the purpose of wearing pantyhose to keep his legs warm on a cold morning, and he liked the feel of it, then he must be counted in the pool. Myself i would guess the pool to be closer to fifteen percent.

SarahLynn

TxRobin, interesting observation and this would indicate we are a special rare group.

On the other hand, Erika's observation about the emergency room could be a more objective measure and would indicate while we are still a minority, we are not necessarily rare in the population.

I thought all this was very interesting, and I know it doesn't change a thing about how we feel for me nor anyone else on this forum. It's just one of those questions that I've thought about often, and as many of the ladies said, one that there probably isn't any way to obtain a reasonably accurate answer.

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Originally Posted by theresa

I think I have noticed the same phenomenon. There appears to be an increasing interest in marketing to the CD community, possibly due to realization of the potential size of the market and potential for sales on the internet. I think this can only be a good thing long term for the Cd'g community.

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...my own experience alone, I would venture to guess that we CDer's are no strangers to the proprietors of mainstream women's clothing and shoe stores - and whether I am dressed in drab or en femme, I seem to be treated just like any other customer - better, in fact, than probably many a GG because being a crossdresser makes me intriguing in the eyes of the SA's and more of a challenge to help me capture just the right "look". I know that many others on this forum share those same sentiments, nor am I referring only to the "usual suspects" that cater to BBW's such as Lane Bryant, Fashion Bug, Catherine's, Addition-Elle or Pennington's etc.

And when it comes to wig stores and those that sell mastectomy-related breast forms, there probably isn't a single one out there that doesn't have at least one or more regular CD customers :heehee::thumbsup:.

Subject A thought about putting on a pair of panties he found in the laundry in 1986, he did not and has not had any other similiar thoughts since then.

Subject B thinks about dressing in womens clothing and masturbates with this image in his mind but has never worn any female garment.

Subject C lives as a woman full time.

Subject D wears panties under his male clothes everyday but does never wear any other female clothing.

It is very difficult to define what is transgendered behavior and if a working defination it is then nearly impossible to determine how many people fit within the confines of the defination.

On 01-18-2008 at 12:37 AM There were exactly 1,257 people on line at this site. Based on the Hutton factor, modified by Sherlyn (2006) and TGMarla (2007) they represent 1.04% of the total in the world. Since that time they have increased at a rate based on a ratio of Ebay sales of size 11 women's shoes over the gross total sales of silicone breast forms. The final calculation is done using Moore's law, modified by Victoria's constant to find a total of 13,568,124 plus/minus 85%. For the sake of clarity the total will be stated as "Darn, there's a lot more of 'em than I thought."

Soon to be published in the "Journal of Irreproducible Results", maybe.