Crossdressers' identity.

I have read so many threads here about "passing" and I wondered why we have to pass. Sorry it a long one, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

Yes there are those amongst us who are transitioning or wanting to live totally as their female persona, so passing (or should I say being accepted as a female) is important to them.

For those many others, including myself, who want to get out and about crossdressed, total passability should not be an issue. Let face it, for most of us, it is a time consuming challenge - make-up, body hair, breast-forms, wig, not to mention voice and height issues.

Wouldn't it be great if crossdressers could be openly accepted for what we are, just men in skirts (or dressses). In some respects that may already be so.

Like many gurls here, at first I limited my outdoor activities to hours of darkness or out of the way places out of fear of being outed. I now realise that crowded places are safer and that being identified as a crossdresser by strangers may cause some second glances or mouth open stares, innocent comments from young children, giggles from naive teenagers but very rarely aggression. As such, crossdressers are accepted, just like any other "minority group" in society. By "minority group" I mean people who are different - punks, goths and even really hot chicks. After all, they often cause more than a second glance or stare.

Now that deals with all the people you don't know. Now coming out to friends and family is a different issue. There you have to cope with emotions and reactions at close quarters. Will those reactions be the same as all those strangers in a crowded shopping mall? I am only out to my wife and one daughter and it is partly for their sakes that I don't think I will ever declare myself to the rest of my family etc.

Coming out is nothing new to me though. I am a naturist, as is my wife, which for a couple of years we only revealed to our daughters. Then we decided to declare this to all our non-naturist family, friends and colleagues. We did not lose one friend, in fact it strengthened some relationships. Although a common comment is that they would not want us to be naked if they visited.

If I felt that my crossdressing would be accepted like my undressing, then I would ensure that I would not impose it on those who would feel uncomfortable with it.

To that end, I can still only dress at home or in out of the way quiet places, unless I am miles from home, with little risk of meeting someone I know.

Rachael

I'm sure that within this group there will be lots of different ideas on this.

Personally, I don't wantto impose my interests upon others - within or outside my family. I admit, tho I'd like to be able to pass and interact freely in public as a woman, but I don't feel confident in my ability to do so. And while it would be great to be able to go out dressed, without caring if I pass - I'm just not there yet (don't know if I ever will be).

It is all a basic point of view thing. To me "passing" covers a few different things: personal feelings and public perception. Part of the desire to pass is just an overall personal desire to look good and can be the same regardless of which mode you are in, male or female.
The next phase is of course wanting to blend in "out there" to the best of your ability. This area can cause some arguments amongst us, because there are those that want to go over the top for thier own enjoyment and some of us see that as making a negative impact on society. You speak of being treated respectfully and that there is nothing to worry about, but in this discussion we need to speak about "it" in the big picture not just the community where you live.
So basically it is a yes and no thing, yes we worry about passing for good reason and yes we worry too much at times, but no we shouldn't not worry because there are good reasons to do our best to pass. This is of course just my opinion, so i will say that those wanting to go extreme should limit it to the right places, so that society will not get the wrong image and take it out on all of us.
:2c: mj (Cassie)

I think it's all about choices of each individual. I can imagine that for many, passing is the greatest challenge of all in CD.

I think it has a great deal to do with how you perceive yourself and how you want others to perceive you. A lot of us, I'm sure, perceive themselves as a woman while dressed and want to be perceived as such. Others might not have such a distinction.

Personally... I don't know. It would be awesome to be able to pass, but I know I'll never be able to. I'd be content with being able to go out and get treated like a woman despite it being obvious I'm a CD.

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Originally Posted by Nomad Rachael

As such, crossdressers are accepted, just like any other "minority group" in society. By "minority group" I mean people who are different - punks, goths and even really hot chicks. After all, they often cause more than a second glance or stare.

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Hmmmm. Never really thought of it that way. Good point!

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Originally Posted by Jessy

I think it's all about choices of each individual. I can imagine that for many, passing is the greatest challenge of all in CD.

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My goal is to look as female as possible when dressed. I applaud and support all our sisters who go out and don't care if they pass or not. But that's just not me. Perfection is the goal! I may never get there, but the journey is just as important as the destination!
:hugs:

I'm all for being considerate and improving public perception... but there's a limit to it. You also have to be happy yourself.

By the way, I would much rather see most people crossdressed than nekkid. :o

If I could Pass,I would be blissfully happy,but that's not to say I feel any less acceptable as a TV,I think if you go out there with a Confidence about you,and put effort into the way you dress etc,that should be enough to get you by.Remember most people are too busy with their own lifes to worry about what they see passing them in the street,And If they do then I wouldn't waste my energy worrying about them.

I'm just happy being this way,and want to live life to the full,and have as much fun as I can,wether I pass or not

I was of those night grils and now I am a day time and do not care about passing and I do care more about being accepted.

Just starting to come out to family in house but would love to step outside all femme and go about shopping and is step that is getting nearer just need pactice on makeup so can pass to some degree as a GG.

I go out dressed in the hopes of passing to more than 50% of the people out there. If I pas good for me if I don't, oh well. I am 6'5" with heels and I'll always wear them, yes I draw attention due to the height issue but I just don't care. I go out for me not John Q Public

passing used to be a real big deal to me,but latly im really into just mixing the clothes of both genders.i feel most comfortable that way.thats who i am im both genders.

I'm gung-ho about passing because I'd like to be seen and treated as a woman, rather than a crossdresser. I'm too much of a perfectionist to settle for second best. And if I do attract a second glance, it better be because they like what they see, rather than because I got clocked!!

My two cents.

It's complicated: when I go out as Ruth it's with the intention of passing, but I don't actually regard myself as a woman when en femme. I just want to look enough like one to be mistaken for one.
(My voice gives me away anyway.)
I think in part I am unwilling to make the statement that I am a CDing male to the world at large - I would love to be able to but I'm afraid.

As long as people think I am sexy, pretty and they fall over with lust, and drive their cars off the road in amazement...then I wouldn't care about passing. I would have what 99% don't have. Unfortunately it's not exactly like that. But there is something special about trans people. So it's not all bad. People actually often are jealous of us I think.

I think for a lot of people the goal of passing, while partially due to wanting to avoid comments or second glances, is probably more of a matter of an ideal. Dressing up like a woman is one thing. To be recognized as one is much more difficult. I've never been out in public, except for on Halloween, but I'm sure I would fail to pass. However, that doesn't really bother me. I like who and what I am, and I should be aloud to wear what I want, when I want.

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Originally Posted by Nylon Zoe

Just starting to come out to family in house but would love to step outside all femme and go about shopping and is step that is getting nearer just need pactice on makeup so can pass to some degree as a GG.

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Why wait till you "pass" which is subjective anway. Sure, practice your makeup skills, but don't wait till they're "perfect". I don't pass, in fact I probably still won't pass even when I complete a transition. Recent pictures in this thread: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...d.php?t=128527

But I still go out. In fact I "have" to go out.

Veronica Rogers

I would love to be a beautiful woman. I'm told that I am a handsome man but I don't see beauty in being male. I like to dress in women's attractive clothing, skirts, tops, nyons, heels. I would like to "pass" but accept that it is next to impossible for me. So I enjoy myself in private. Maybe someday I will be able to share that with someone.
It would be amazing if men in women's clothing attracted no more attention than women in men's clothing. Then i could find the middle ground that would probably satisfy me.

I find your comments and views to be very close to my own. However, I am not too certain how to put no clothes together with female clothes. But that isn't your point and I agree with your basic position.

I did make an observation once upon a time: I entrusted two of my very close friends with my secret of dressing. They were good and loyal. However, I came to feel that I did them no favor by sharing since it then gave them a burden - however small - to carry. Would I tell my best friend now? I doubt it.

Rachel,
I am thinking if it doesn't go over in Europe where "sex" stuff is taken a bit more liberally, there is probably no hope of it entering the "mainstream" here either. Perhaps "passing" is our internal OK for something that society sees as worse than quirky--it is perverted sex, and perhaps more so than being gay, because there, medical science gives them a pass as having something genetically different from everyone else.
How long has the struggle by gays gone on for them to be accepted--and yet in most places they still are not by the larger population--they are tolerated, and I just read that one of the Southern Senators is trying to get his states' protections of gays removed!!!!
As a group, CDs have no spokesperson, they get only the Jerry Springer kind of publicity, so it will be 50 years more before anything might change. If there were more serious stuff in the media to change the image of people who CD, then there would be the start of something. If the women who are married to CDs can't stomach it, there is not much chance for acceptance.
So to cut to the chase, Passing may be simply to ward off both the internal feeling that what we do is filty, dirty, perversions in the phone booth or closet (except as you noted, that there are TG's among our number who truly do want to be women). When society accepts all people who are different for whatever reason, then "men in skirts" will simply be part of the rank and file of humanity.
Right now, we largely have white males and females who are normal as the standard "humans" in the Western world. People with cancer, one leg, blind, cripple, deaf or any other physical handicap are only tolerated because they' re not perfect. We still live in a world that has historical ideas of what people should be, and if we fall out of the main category--forget us.
The variations are enormous--male straight, male gay, male CD that is gay, male cd that is straight, male cd bi-sexual, male cd handicapped in some way that is bi-sexual, etc. "Regular Society" can't intergrate all these variations into their world. So I think the need to pass, is really the desire to avoid the brickbats that society throws our way, otherwise we could just comfortably be men in women's clothing. period, end of sentence.
Mandrake out of water

I'm thin, androgynous, have a full head of hair but I know I won't pass.
In spite of the breast forms, Veronica hip forms, effective beard cover tecniques, makeup tricks, I am still a man. I just try to look good and pretty.

I am having fun nonetheless. It's still a hoot.

I do not fit into the category of gender dysphopria, but I make an effort to look as good as I can. It's so worth it when I do.....at least for me. I'm just happy to participate in the role that women fulfill.

Danica Patrick drives race cars, I wear dresses. Neither of us have compromised anything.

I agree that the importance of passing or not passing can be overblown. But I do have to say that for me the turning point was when I stopped caring whether I passed or not nor what other people thought and just enjoyed being enfemme out in the world. I started to notice that over time fewer and fewer people were noticing me. Probably confidence and lack of fear is a major factor in not being clocked, at least that may be the case for me.

I'm really believing (or at least I'm convincing myself) that by and large I'm getting my unnoticed in most cases. As a result I now find myself wanting to be out in the world enfemme as often as possible to enjoy that experience and to continue to build that confidence and perfect the art. I'm afraid I'lll "lose it" if I don't use it! Not sure that this is a good thing or not but we'll see. Maybe Im overdoing it.

Until I open my mouth and talk. :eek: But I'm working on that one hard now!

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Originally Posted by Anne66

By the way, I would much rather see most people crossdressed than nekkid. :o

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One thing about people being naked as naturists is that they are not judgemental of other peoples bodies. On one of our first visits to a naturist club my wife commented to me on the poor dress sense of another individual, but once naked all the flaws on peoples' bodies (scars, deformities, mastectomies, flab etc.) just go unnoticed and certainly aren't commented upon.

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Originally Posted by NathalieX66

I'm thin, androgynous, have a full head of hair but I know I won't pass.
In spite of the breast forms, Veronica hip forms, effective beard cover tecniques, makeup tricks, I am still a man. I just try to look good and pretty.

I am having fun nonetheless. It's still a hoot.

I do not fit into the category of gender dysphopria, but I make an effort to look as good as I can. It's so worth it when I do.....at least for me. I'm just happy to participate in the role that women fulfill.

Danica Patrick drives race cars, I wear dresses. Neither of us have compromised anything.

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Well said Nathalie!!!

I agree with all of that, and it describes me personally ('cept the "thin, androgynous, have a full head of hair" part):brolleyes:

ive always had the attidude that i am Male, but not a man. I find that very helpfull for getting over the passing thing. generally i find that even if people see you are male, if you are open and present in a womanly way, people will accept you as a male "women". thtats now how i like to be percieved anyways.
often the way we percieve ourselves is less to do with our gender identity and more to do with how pragmatic we are