Can you CD w/o being TG?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MackenzieMarigold

But if you aren't TG and just enjoy dressing up, there's nothing stopping you from having a nice girl and dressing up on the side. Plus she may even be into it =)

---

I read this in another thread and wondered, is it really possible to be a CDr but not be TG.

In my view, CDing is a manifestation of transgenderism. I would concede that individuals may be more or less TG, but I have a hard time imagining anyone CDing without being TG.

What are your thoughts?

PS. In the interest of fairly full disclosure, I would characterize myself as TG - leaning towards the TS side of the Spectrum, here in TX! (TG/TS/TX?)

Clarification - I realize that there are many potential definitions of TG. In my view, TG is a very broad classification of individuals who's gender identification doesn't fit within the M/F dichotomy.

Of course you can. Just like you can sing without being a singer.

Not all CDs are transgender. Some CD as a fetish, or a few other reasons.

Transgender (TG) is an umbrella term that includes anything but plain vanilla gender. CD is just one of the alternative gender expressions under that umbrella. There are as many different expressions as there are people under that umbrella

Kim, if a person crossdresses than they are manifesting the concept of TG! Certainly the degree of TG may be more or less, depending on the person. I am a crossdresser and have been for over 70 years, but I have no desire whatsoever to actually be a woman!! I am a very happy male who loves to wear feminine clothing!! Nothing more!! I do not believe that anyone who crossdresses, whether they are male or female, can do so without being a TG also! It is just the nature of the beast!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by celeste26

Transgender (TG) is an umbrella term that includes anything but plain vanilla gender. CD is just one of the alternative gender expressions under that umbrella. There are as many different expressions as there are people under that umbrella

---

So, in your view a CD is by definition TG?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sissystephanie

Kim, if a person crossdresses than they are manifesting the concept of TG! Certainly the degree of TG may be more or less, depending on the person.

---

You know, I started off typing a reply disagreeing with you, sissystephanie, but after researching the terminology, definitions and opinions on the Web, I have come to the conclusion that as crossdressers, we tend to fall under that category.

Wikipedia has ths definition:

"Of, relating to, or designating a person whose identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender roles, but combines or moves between these."

I think for most of us, this fits. I know that when I dress, I don't continue to feel masculine...I feel feminine! I may even change my mannerisms while dressed, and walk, sit....generally behave and feel like a woman.

Now like you, and many CDs, I have no desire to be a woman. But my gender switches - only temporarily when I dress in female things. The clothes might be the channeling of that switch, but the feelings have to already be there for that to happen. If you dress up some random guy as a woman...he isn't going to feel feminine ever. For him, he's still a guy in drag, and could never feel like a woman. But for us, it's different. We feel the femininity coming out.....the clothes are just the conduit for it to happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scarlet Rose

It is the definition of Tg that's going to be the problem here.

I do not regard myself as TG. I mentally explore "the other side" and I enjoy the clothing for different reasons in the spectrum of why people do it.

---

So despite engaging in behaviour which is not typical of your gender, you don't believe that you cross the gender lines? Interesting, at what point does engaging in behaviour that does not correspond to your gender become a crossing of that line?

TG tends to have multiple definations. It's like the word "Yankee". To those outside the community TG is an umbrella term covering everything from TV to TS. Within the community, there is a narrower defination as being some one that crossdresses for reasons somewhere between being strickly a crossdresser and someone who is Transsexual. ie TV, CD, TG, TS. That tends to be the defination within the community.

Like the word "Yankee", outside of the United States, we are all called Yankees, but within the United States, don't ever call someone from the South a "Yankee"!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DonnaT

Not all CDs are transgender. Some CD as a fetish, or a few other reasons.

---

This.

But in the end it depends on whether you see transgender as meaning boy-body with a girl-mind, or whether you see it as an umbrella term.

Transgender is generally defined as a set of which crossdressing is a subset; all crossdressers are TG, but not all TG are crossdressers. (Like all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.)

As time has gone on, it has been increasingly used as a sort of "polite" term for transsexual (those who transition or want to transition), as CD is used as a "polite" term for TV. In this context it does not include those who CD occasionally whatever the reason for doing so may be (I used an example before of a "TG Health Initiative" as an example.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sissystephanie

I am a crossdresser and have been for over 70 years, but I have no desire whatsoever to actually be a woman!! I am a very happy male who loves to wear feminine clothing!! Nothing more!!

---

Okay, so what about someone who just enjoys the feeling of female clothing?? They love the sensuous feel of nylons, the texture of fine wools and tweeds, the slide of a silken dress along their skin, the feel of an alpaca scarf, or a pashmina? They don't feel feminine inside, no inner woman. Wouldn't that make them more of a sensualist, or taken further, a hedonist, rather than necessarily TG?? The terminology is what makes this whole subject so slippery...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rianna Humble

So despite engaging in behaviour which is not typical of your gender, you don't believe that you cross the gender lines? Interesting, at what point does engaging in behaviour that does not correspond to your gender become a crossing of that line?

---

I see what you're saying, but you have to also take into account that there ARE men out there that just genuinely like the clothes without female implications. I can think of one member from this forum that was wearing a woman's skirt with a masculine shirt and shoes...no makeup and short hair.

I think these people are a bit more rare, but...yeah.

I think you don't necessarily have to be TG to be a CD. But, it is the umbrella term for a reason. I think *most* people that CD have their reasons founded in some sort of gender implications.

But, I still recognize that there are people out there that may literally just find a dress or skirt more comfortable. But, I think the term TG is kind of needed as an umbrella term to get rid of the line of transsexual OR crossdresser. We know from research that there seems to be more of a continuum of gender identity and a CD may fall anywhere on that line. (When I say continuum I don't mean that it is necessarily a progressive process). So, TG helps recognize that people may have gender issues without being transsexual. And, at the very polar opposite end of the TG spectrum would be the strictly fetishist and barely falling on the TG line would be the people who just legitimately find skirts and dresses more comfortable.

It's confusing.

But, by being confusing it is less confusing???????? haha

Until the OP is clarified, this thread will revolve around defn of TG.:yawn:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sara.s

Unless the OP is clarified, this thread will revolve around defn of TG.:yawn:

---

.. labels and definitions are the bane of the crossdresser..lol

I'll simply say this.

You can have the body of a male and at the same time dress in the clothes of a female without wanting to be female or feeling you should have been born female. Some do it because it feels nice, some do it simply because they like it, and some have a fetish for it. But that's just how I see it. I could be wrong, I don't know. Transgender is just one of those terms that is all over the place..

Hi Kim,

I am glad we all share out insights here on the web, what a resource.
We are all different shades of sexuality. Some may strongly identify with another and some do not.
You could find a GG who is into the cding, she would have shades of sexuality that are not your typical Vanilla GG's who wants a masculine man. Hey when the clothes come off you are a man, and a woman is a woman, it will work.

I for one identify with you as a TG.

I rarely think of women sexually, some are stimulating, they are just so pretty. But in the end I want to be them, not have sex with them. I am worried at this time in my life as to where I am going. I think about transitioning, or first presenting myself as a woman. And am not interested in a relationship with a GG right now. I am thinking allot these days and this forum and yourself are of great help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MackenzieMarigold

You can have the body of a male and at the same time dress in the clothes of a female without wanting to be female or feeling you should have been born female. Some do it because it feels nice, some do it simply because they like it, and some have a fetish for it.

---

What you say is at the same time true and irrelevant. what you define in your first sentence is someone who is not transsexual.

Transgender has a very precise etymology - it comes from two roots: "Trans" meaning to cross and "gender". In this sense, male and female are genders, so someone who (to use your phrase) has "he body of a male and at the same time dress in the clothes of a female" has crossed (trans) the gender lines.

Using your logic, you would have to say that a cat is not an animal because a dog is an animal and cats are not dogs.

Cross dressing is the like of a particular style/type of clothing for a particular reason which could include being TG but you do not have to be TG to like cross dressing the same as you do not have to like crossdressing if you are TG (which might sound odd to some), i guess it all depends on why you are cross dressing as to whether you have a gender issue or not .

It's a very good question and it puzzles me as well.

So if you don't mind, Kim, to step way for a moment from any debate over the definition of "TG" (if that's possible) lol, I'd like to simply rephrase the question to, "Can you crossdress without crossing any gender lines"? Or, "Is there any departure from a strictly male gender identity when a crossdresser crossdresses?

I think we should eliminate from this discussion the men who present as men (men's hair cut, no makeup, no forms, no hip pads, no waist cinchers, no feminine accessories such as jewelry, shoes, etc) but who wear man-skirts in much the same way as men who wear kilts. I do think these men are the exception in this forum and whether or not they wish to get in touch with their softer selves will vary depending on the individual.

But for the majority here who do present a feminine appearance even if partially, how can they not be crossing any gender lines? I've read some of the reasons such as dressing to relieve stress, or enjoying the silky fabrics, or having a taste for the cut and color of the clothes. But if these are the only reasons for dressing, then why wear the wigs, makeup, forms, etc, and still identify solidly as a man? Some members have said they present as a woman in order to be able to wear the clothes and not be derided for looking like a guy in a dress. But if the dressing is only to relieve stress or enjoy the clothes, then why is there a wish to wear these clothes in public, which would necessitate looking (and being treated as) a woman?

Some members suggest that dressing for fetish doesn't count. But, what is it about the dressing that is so sexually stimulating, and why is this? Hmmmm? :) If the climax involves imagining oneself as a woman, then I'd say this definitely crosses gender lines.

It is puzzling, indeed. My take on it is that members who say they are not TG, confuse the term "TG" with transsexual. They want to present as women (or for fetish CDs, get off as women), but they don't want to become a woman. I understand this. It is part-time for them. They do identify as men. But maybe they should at least admit they identify as men with a feminine twist even if occasionally. And this alone means they are crossing gender lines even if only occasionally, which is the meaning of being transgender. "Trans" = to cross. The gender lines. But crossing does not mean permanently becoming a woman. People can cross back and forth. :)

I agree with Rianna and Reine. I cross (trans) the gender lines every time I put anything on that is created for the opposite gender. Even if it is panties and pantyhose under my drab attire, it is still me in clothes not specific to my birth gender, and is therefore crossing the line from the male to female gender. I am a crossdresser and I am most definitely transgendered.

Reine, it is hard to even ask the question without getting bogged down with "definitions". And I agree that it seems many confuse transexual with transgender. Words can be tricky things, because they inherently mean different things to different people. My other observation is that people may be uncomfortable with identifying themselves as transgenders (to any degree) then the defnition itself becomes a distraction from the basic question.

that being said, I like the way you rephrased the question. I too have a difficult time imagining how one can cross the gender boundary without possessing somewhat more fluid gender identification.

I think cross-dresser is a fairly accurate description without being unwieldy.
Transgender is NOT a medical term and really means nothing in particular.
The word transsexual implies moving from one SEX to the other
I suppose if we use that logic than TG could mean moving from one gender to the other with out changing ones sex. this could include CDing but some CDs just put the clothes on and do not adopt the behavior of the other gender and who is to say that behavior is exclusively male or female? society says this is typical of a man and this is typical of a woman but especially in our "individual freedoms" loving western societies one can find exceptions to every rule. People like to point out the Physical differences between men and woman but that is SEX not GENDER. I often hear, bye way of an example, how men are bigger and stronger than woman but then again I have met woman who could bench press me! and guys so wimpy and frail well you just feel sorry for them LOL.

Everybody has made excellent, valid points of view. However, I don't find that I fit under any category. So much so that I'm even sure what I would be labelled AS.

I don't want to be a woman, in any sort of the view. I don't have a part of myself whom I see as a woman, nor a man for that matter of fact. I don't look in the mirror and see a defined sex. I see a person, who biologically is male and who has a lifetime of conditioning towards being a very passing male in today's society for obvious reasons. I don't see myself as a man or a woman, but as an entirely blank mental state. Where I don't see wearing a dress any different than wearing a pair of jeans and a muscle shirt.

Society has deemed Crossdressing as weird and taboo in some places. I am aware that as a functioning member of society, I'm bound to the laws and moral code that you find therein. I pay taxes, I have a job. I buy nice things.

It just so happens, I enjoy wearing things from the opposite side of the gender spectrum and because it is in fact a societal no-no, I choose to hide it from people as not to be singled out and ridiculed for it. So, I'm not sure I know how to answer the original statement.

Yes, I suppose as, I crossdress yet don't feel the need to become a woman, or at least that's my understanding of a TG. But No in the sense that others who have a more defined view of whom they are DO feel that by crossdressing, they acknowledge or at least get the feeling that they could be feminine.

Let's try this one on for size :) :

A male actor is cast to play a female role. He learns all that is necessary to be a convincing woman (we all know the list of things he needs to learn). He goes out on stage and plays the role perfectly.

Analyzing this, I would say that this male actor is not transgendered. He has gone through the motions but it was a job, and that's all it was. He may have even enjoyed the feeling of the clothes and the aura of portraying a woman, but it was his job, not his personal mindset.

Therefore, I would say that anyone could crossdress to "portray" a woman for some reason without mentally crossing the line. To me, being transgendered is a state of mind, not one of function. Going along with that thought, this website is "crossdresseres.com", not "transgedered.com".

Personally, I'm transgendered. However, I can see where I could use the knowledge that I've learned about Tina in order to behave completely as a male in feminine garb, makeup, etc. I see these as separable.

tina