Stink-Eye

You know that look from others, the one that feels as if it's burrowing to the core of your very being. It's often accompanied by that facial tweak which looks as if the person smells something very unpleasant. The wearer of the "stink-eye" often looks as if they are in a trance, like the subject matter of what brought on their stink puts them in a sort of catatonic state.

Well you might think I'm gonna talk about getting that kind of look when out & about presenting as female. Surprisingly, not the case. It has nothing to do with whether I am perceived as TG or not (and for the record, I fully expect others to eventually come to that TG conclusion). Rather, I'm talking about the looks I get in guy mode when my hair is down. The phrases which enter my mind (that I imagine they are thinking) when I receive this stink-eye look are...

• Guys are not supposed to have hair that pretty.
• C'mon, you are clearly a middle-aged male, WTF???
• This does not compute, (due to immediate visual cues) I see woman but that is clearly a dude.

Yep, it seems these days that when presenting as female, I am at least in line with society's gender binary. However, when in guy mode, my signals are decidedly mixed and apparently it messes with people more than it does when I present as a woman. Go figure.

Every time I get this look I have it in mind to start a thread here to get this off my chest. Given that this has happened at least three times in the last week, I think it's high time that I do so.

That feels better.

<end/rant>

Back in the 80's it was more acceptable for guys to have long hair, today it's more the shaved head look. I think it's just the childish behavior that goes with the changes of time and people perception of what's in and what's not.

I wouldn't let it bother you. hell, if it does just go out dressed more :)

OHHHH DO I know where your comeing from girl ,,, Same here with the ol hair , My hair is long an cut in a female way and all the time not just sometime I forget about it an Ill get the ol stink eye too . Ya always thinkin about something else an moveing on to biger an beter things an all of sudden someones looking at ya real funny an ya freeze an think WTF are they lookin at ?? Did I forget something ? Is my thong showin, Is my tinted moisterizer to dark , Can they tell that my ears are peirced ,, Did I put to much perfume on ,, Hell I thought I was in man mode what the "":": An ya get so used to the little things an forget that the manz man dont even brush there teeth an you do all this different stuff just to leave the house an it becomes normal , Esspecialy when ya have long hair you cant just let it fly ,, Yuv got to do something with , So if ya did that you mite as well do a little something else while your there an before ya know it you have done more than most guys do for a wedding,, Then after a while your face gets soft an skin clears up an ya start haveing a girl face an girl hair , an girl nails ,, eye brows,shaved arms under arms, An on an on so that might not be all there looking at might be the first thing ?

Sara, I know your feeling exactly.
Stacy B, my hair is exactly where yours is now. When I'm in guy mode, I pretty much brush it back behinnd my ears a la Brad Pitt or Ashton Kutcher, that's the state where I am now.

The thing is, I have surprised many who have known me, mostly relatives and friends, but haven't seen me in a long time until recently.

There is one reaction that I do get from guys over 40, and that is profound jealousy.....some of it is for obvious reasons. I am also in my mid 40's with a job title in a business environment. The college days are long past me.

But yes, I do get that stink eye from time to time. I look at it this way: You only live once. Your life is your own and not anybody else's. You've showed the world that you are living life on your terms, not theirs, or what they percieve is proper. I mean, c'mon! We're talking about fibrous matter that extrudes from our scalp, how petty is that?!

Gender non-conformity is such a big issue, particularly if you present as an "average" male. People's expectations of guys does not allow for much varriance. Unless you are a flamboyant effeminate male, you are expected to stick to the unwritten rules of the "fraternity".

I admire those who are comfortable in being androgenous, I particularly like seeing long well groomed hair on men (envy on my part as I have male pattern baldness) Attached is a picture of Paul Wharton as an example




Even my GF (who knows about me femme side) has expressed a strong preference for the classical male look in men. She even hates that I minimize my body hair.

Oh yeah, I know THAT look! I seldom venture out en femme, but in a fit of bravery I visited a thrift shop. I was dressed conservatively, as well I should be at age 75. I was minding my business and browsing at tops when a little hispanic woman crossed my path. Oh my, if looks could kill I would be in my grave. BRRRR! The only thing that made up for it was the very nice female checkout clerk who smiled and complimented me on my selection.

Back in the 70s and 80s, long hair really was acceptable and even the norm (about shoulder length) - and I had plenty of it. Not much of an issue for me anymore since I have very little hair at all, at least on top of my head. But my earrings do get a lot of looks and occasional comments, even though they're pretty simple. It's hard not to be conscious of it when you're the only one in a room full of engineers who has earrings while over 30. But I enjoy being non-conformist so it's really pretty cool.

Miriam

Back in the 60's and early 70's, I remember getting that look for long hair and bell bottom pants, somethings just don't change that much, there always people out there ready to judge you, and find you wanting by there standards, so it's always been. I love being told at my age I should give up the pony tail, but I fought for the right to wear it at work, and I'm not giving it up as long as there is still any hair on my head, which at this rate may not be much longer, the way it's falling out. But when I don't feel like putting it up, I still get those looks too.

Dumb looks don't cost anything to the looker. Intelligent looks require some thought.:)

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Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

However, when in guy mode, my signals are decidedly mixed and apparently it messes with people more than it does when I present as a woman. Go figure.

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I hear you! I think that's what going on with me too. I have a decidedly mixed signal appearance in boy mode. I wear clothes that are clearly women's ones (obvious girls jeans, tees, and hoodies etc) with earrings, manicured nails etc yet I am also clearly a guy, and I don't think people like it. I think they think there is something weird going on with me that I want to openly look effeminate. Any deviation from the norm, especially when it comes to gender, is not liked for presentably a whole host of reasons ... and unfortunately for me my skin is not very "thick".

Ahhhh yes,, the 80's... I miss the 80's, when dudes were free to look like chicks in the name of rock and roll!

Sigh.....longs for the ability to get a stink eye for long flowing raven colored hair......oh well next best thing will be the stink eye when I ever screw up the courage to go out en femme.

I must support the thought that stupid is as stupid does. And if all someone can do is give the stink eye, it really says a lot about their mental acuity, or rather the lack of..

I must confess to giving the stink eye every so often, but it is usually out of jealousy.

Babes

Sara, I know what you are saying and I've had a little of that, although not too much. My hair is femme and I wear femme cloths like leggings (with my shorts, of course) in male mode. Mostly it's just curious looks and smiles from women usually. Guys dont usually know what to think, although they will have something to say when they are with others. Recently at a police station where I was doing some maintaince, I over heard one male officer quietly say to another "I'll give you two guesses about that guy - (me!)". I just keep doing my work and go on. I do the best I can, so they keep wanting me to do more work for them.

All these comments about long hair in the 60s, 70s, and 80s remind me of one of my favorite anthems back then, when I had hair down to the middle of my back. Bob Seger knew this feeling too when he wrote "Turn the Page," so even then it wasn't always easy having long hair.

Well you walk into a restaurant,
Strung out from the road
And you feel the eyes upon you
As you're shakin' off the cold
You pretend it doesn't bother you
But you just want to explode

Most times you can't hear 'em talk,
Other times you can
All the same old cliches,
"Is that a woman or a man?"
And you always seem outnumbered,
You don't dare make a stand

I miss having long hair. Love, love, love the feeling of the breeze lifting it and playing with it. So much to do with longer hair, and so little with this short stuff I've got now. Ah well.

~Rachel

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Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

Surprisingly, not the case. It has nothing to do with whether I am perceived as TG or not (and for the record, I fully expect others to eventually come to that TG conclusion). Rather, I'm talking about the looks I get in guy mode when my hair is down.

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That's not so surprising to me. Do you have plucked eyebrows and a clean shaven face? I've seen big, burly, pot-bellied biker guys with long, unkempt straggly hair wearing black Tshirts with jeans, chains, and biker boots, who don't get the same WTF looks.

Sadly, most people do not discriminate between what they perceive to be a feminine looking male (perhaps with long hair and feminine eyebrows, perhaps with painted nails, or a pretty scarf, etc) and a male dressed as a woman, no matter how well he presents. Unless you are in an "edgy" part of town, to these people one is not that much a departure from the other, except it's a matter of degree. Both scream, "I'm not like you". And people get confused with that. They experience distress. I'm saying that it's not about the clothes so much as it is about a departure from the gender norms, if you do not have other overly male gender cues to balance out your long hair.

It IS better to present fully as a woman because then you escape close scrutiny. I'm sure you've read here hundreds of times that most people are preoccupied with their own lives and if, in their periphery, your obvious gender cues to not clash (hair, clothes, eyebrows, etc), they won't scrutinize the less obvious features such as face width, profile, etc. But while in guy mode, your feminine attributes stand out, clash with your male attributes, and attract notice.

I so wish that people would be more relaxed about those who depart from the gender norms.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

That's not so surprising to me. Do you have plucked eyebrows and a clean shaven face? I've seen big, burly, pot-bellied biker guys with long, unkempt straggly hair wearing black Tshirts with jeans, chains, and biker boots, who don't get the same WTF looks.

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Yep Reine, tweezed eyebrows, often smooth face (especially if it is within days after an outing where I have tweezed all of my facial fur). Even if I let the "goatee" grow a little stubbly in anticipation of an electrolysis appointment, I still get the looks. Maybe part of it is because I'm NOT like that big burly pot-bellied unkempt biker dude. And I get that, but it still trips me out that people should even care so much.

But like Nathalie says, I'm clearly flying in the face of what is expected of me in suburbia, especially being married with children and working in a very conservative business environment. My mom hates the hair, my wife strongly dislikes it, but I have what some might call an unreasonable psychological attachment to this hair of mine and if I have it my way, it's not going anywhere any time soon, if ever. May seem selfish but this is one place I have apparently drawn that line in the sand. I love having long hair, I love how it makes me feel every waking moment of the day, simple as that.

Back when I was coaching I had a athlete who had really long hair. People asked me how I felt about it. Now understand I been bald longer than I had hair and keep my hair very short( don't like the bald look with long hair on the sides!). I told people that if I had hair I'd let it grow down to below my butt! As long as the guy didn't trip over it i had no problem with it. He's in his
30's now and recently shaved his head. What a waste of hair, I'm envious of those who have it!

It's all in the eye of the beholder, Sara, and in the attitude of the person on the receiving end of the infamous "stink-eye". One simply needs to "own" one's look, not be apologetic about it, and if need be, return the "stink-eye" with either a benign smile or a cold, hard stare, depending on the situation.

I look at androgynous male/female supermodel Andrej Pejic for inspiration here. S/he owns his/her look, and is not only open and non-apologetic about it, s/he has become a sensation in the fashion world and has amassed an enormous fan base - both male and female, straight and gay. Just check out all the references to Andrej when Googling his/her name, as well as the numerous Facebook fan pages devoted to him/her. S/he even received a personal invitation to meet the Queen of England last October, and dressed in full female mode for the event.

I have always found that people, for the most part, respect and admire those who have the "b*lls" to be true to themselves, and Andrej is living proof of that.

I don't have long hair, but I keep my face shaved. My eyebrows aren't fem, but kept trimmed more than the average guy's. And I think I must appear feminine to biker types with beards. But I'll have to admit I have thoughts about guys that keep their hair long. And what's with the zz top beards? I can't think of any men I've seen recently with long hair without a beard or mustache to go with it. Long hair without facial hair would cause me to think that this guy has a fem personality of some type.

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C'mon, you are clearly a middle-aged male, WTF???

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I had a musician friend that bleached his long hair which I thought was OK. After a few years he started putting on weight and I started thinking he looked like a fat chick, even though he probably thought he looked like Motley Crue.

I would hope not to give the stink eye to anyone, but I'm sure I do. And I probably get it from some people too.

I am 72 and my hair in my Avatar is mine. It is actually 3 inches longer now. And I hav NO hair below my neck (Love my epilator)
Sinsce I live in Lake Havasu Az I am in shorts 9 months of the year (80deg yesterday). No one has ever said a bad thing, but I have had several GOOD coments on my Hair...Life is Good..
(HUGGS)

I must admit, that i find it amusing and a turn off, seeing NFL players with hair hanging a foot or more outside their helmets! I wonder if it ever gets pulled, during tackles, or blocking. That would really smart!

Hi Sara, I can understand how the staring would make you feel. Perhaps you could style your hair differently when in male mode which could lessen the reactions you are getting?

As an example, I saw Brad Pitt on TV at the Academy awards and he has the whole shaggy long hair look going on. If he styled it in a feminine way it would dramatically change his look.

Sara, a certain percentage of the population ( even here in SoCal ) have a preconceived notion of what's "appropriate" as to personal appearance and their standard expectation of conformity.

And that is exactly the response I seek to generate.

I relish the opportunity to demonstrate the fact that I'm a NON-conformist. If we're reluctant to celebrate our individuality and right of personal choice, we're just part of the herd.

They don't pay my bills, nor do I seek their approval.

I haven't cut my hair in over six years, and it's longer now than in my avatar photo.

Never once have I been confronted or belittled in any way. I believe that if you own your look, your confidence overwhelms any potential detractors. Why? Because they're afraid of non-conformity, and you epitomize that which they fear.

At 6', 165 lbs, I'm not imposing... but I'm formidable. So the signal they receive is to keep their mouth shut, and avert their gaze.

That's just their instinct for survival kicking in.

And I do so enjoy invoking that response.

im pretty femme in guy mode. i have long hair, pluck my eyebrows, long nails, wear really tight guy jeans.....i get looks too jessica... But i laugh it off, people are rude and we cant change that. Dont let it bother you.

I told my wife once that i hate when people stare at me......she says "haha, they're staring cause your hot". It made me feel better, so now when i catch people staring, i just put a little swagger in my walk.......and say to myself....."Dont hate me cuz im pretty"....

But rant on sara i feel ya too.

-Donni-