Greater Acceptance: Some Information for Those Who May Not Have Followed this Issue

It was said less than 20 years ago that often we find “… mainstream media themes of transsexuals and transgenderists as sick, deviant, dangerous, and in need of medical treatment” (Gordene MacKenzie, Transgender Nation, 1994, page 107). Interwoven with the more common (and more negative) media images is a notion that transgender persons are driven by aberrant sexual urges, which probably rests on what psychologists call “confirmation bias” (a normal human tendency to search for or interpret new information in a way that confirms one’s preconceptions).

One might ask, “Where did the mainstream media ever get those questionable ideas, which most crossdressers of all kinds would reject?” The sad truth is that Western religions have contributed. Even more influential during the last half century have been psychiatry and the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association (now called WPATH), which long operated on the premise that transgender people are mentally sick and need treatment to address their mental problems. Both of the groups just mentioned believed that transgender persons suffer a form of schizophrenia. Thus medications and talk-sessions to address the schizophrenia are a reasonable strategy for getting rid of the desire to crossdress. Gender Identity Disorder (GID) was the fancy name they adopted to represent these notions.

Transgender activists often picketed and marched outside during meetings of those groups. Those discontented marchers and picketers held that male and female aspects of an individual’s personality are normal. Moreover, some men may have significant amounts of female feelings; and some women may have significant amounts of male feelings. Those are not schizophrenia. They are gender variance in the human race.

The good news is the American Psychiatric Association recently revised its Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM), replacing GID with “gender dysphoria.” In the new DSM (version 5), GID is gone and “dysphoria” is no longer what Harry Benjamin meant by that term. Rather, in the DSM, it simply means a combination of anxiety and sadness pertaining to gender identity. They state very explicitly that it is not a mental disorder, although excessive anxiety and/or sadness “… may be a condition for which medical treatment is appropriate in some cases.” They make clear, however, that “gender dysphoria” cases are a subset of transgender persons. Most transgender persons do not experience any sort of depression or sadness; but a few do and they might benefit from counseling even though they do not meet the APA’s threshold for being a mental illness.

WPATH is now the lone body (other than hostile religious groups) that sees those of us on this forum as mentally ill; and there reportedly is a faction of young members who are trying to drag WPATH kicking and screaming into the 21st century. APA’s reversal of its longstanding position on transgender identity is a definite change for the better. It is predictable that WPATH will catch up or fade away. The mainstream media already have advanced far beyond where they were when Gordene MacKenzie wrote her book, cited above. So … my beautiful sisters … put on your favorite femme attire and have a great weekend! :)

My eyes are killing me tonight, Finally, I need glasses. ....I can't see.
I believe in WPATH, and what they set out to do.

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Originally Posted by NathalieX66

My eyes are killing me tonight, Finally, I need glasses. ....I can't see.
I believe in WPATH, and what they set out to do.

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Well, could you expain why you are such a believer in YPATH? They see you as sick. They are a dying breed. No LGBT organization in the whole world supports YPATH. Tell the rest of us why you do. I wiil listen to your argument, but I would like for you to exlain why you see a dying organization that sees you as sick as something you believe in. ~Jamie Ann

I go all the way back to the 1950s. When I first came out to my mom at 5 years old, in 1960, she was terrified that if anyone found out they would give me electroshock or a lobotomy - that was the standard therapy for transsexuals back in those days.

The public image of Cross-dressers was Milton Berle - dressed as a very ugly woman, with a mostly Bass voice.

In 1969, you could still be arrested in most states just for appearing in public dressed as a woman. The Stonewall Riots started when Police tried to round up a bunch of drag queens and cross-dressers (hard to tell which was which back in those days).

In the 1960s and early 1970s, we saw cross-dressers on Monte Python, with falsetto voices, and bad make-up, but almost looking like matronly women.

In 1979, we had Sulka, one of the first transsexuals to make movies as both a She-male and post-op. It was easy to see that things weren't quite right.

In 1986, Shannon did movies as both she-male and post-op and shared here experience of a brand new procedure that gave her a sensitive clitoris. Most of her movies were banned because of the Meese commission mandate that made bondage and orgasms mutually exclusive.

Finally, in 1992, Ru Paul crossed the Hudson into New Jersey, where it was still illegal to be in public places cross-dressed. Several movies about Drag Queens, including Pricilla, Queen of the Desert, Paris is Burning, and To Wong Foo, showed some real men cross-dressed and looking and acting credibly as women. In Transamerica, the transsexual still had to be played by a woman.

From Harvey Milk to the Gay Marriage proposals, many gays wanted to discourage cross-dressers and transgenders from speaking out and being too visible. However, when we began to ask the question, "If a transsexual is married as a man, to a woman, and then has a transition, will the wife be deprived of life, liberty, and property, including life saving health care, visiting rights in hospitals, and tax benefits - - because it is now a same sex marriage, with no due process of law, no criminal act being committed?" - a question which calls into question the constitutionality of DOMA as a violation of the 5th amendment.

The real issue has been that the whole spectrum of transgendered community has been so GOOD at HIDING that most people have no idea what the realities are. When 15,000 transgenders were interviewed, they discovered that over half had attempted suicide multiple times and should have died but didn't. Based on other related metrics, this indicated that at least 2/3 of all transgenders had tried to kill themselves and half who tried actually succeeded. When police began to investigate suicides by looking at computers and public records such as facebook and twitter - looking for signs of cyberbullies, they found that more than half of all male teen suicides were related to being transgendered or gay and being outed then cyber-bullied and often physically bullied.

Only last year, in December of 2011, the American Psychological Association declared that attempting to convince a transsexual who really wanted to transition to accept their birth gender was actually UNETHICAL, because there was such a dramatic contrast between those who had not transitioned (very high suicide rate) and those who were in transition or had transitioned (90% were happy, gainfully employed, comfortable in their new lives, and healthier).

The bigger challenge these days is finding ways to distinguish between the transvestite, cross-dresser, and transsexual. Transgenders are so good at protecting and concealing their secret that they often find it very hard to sort out their true feelings related to whether they want to dress like a girl, be perceived as a girl once in a while, or would like to be a girl full time - with or without SRS. Sometimes, when caught, a man will claim that he's only a transvestite - when his true feelings are those of a transsexual.

If you really think about it, the transgender phenomenon is essentially still mostly ignorant. Because society puts so much pressure on males to enforce gender conformity, and this pressure often includes terrorism, threats of violence, actual violence, and even violence under supervision of authority figures, transgenders have become masters at maintaining low profiles. We have no real idea of how many men are transgendered (including all types), and we have no idea how many might be harboring a secret desire to change their gender, part time or full time for the rest of their lives. I think of the scene in the Matrix where Morpheus offers Neo the two pills, but in my version one pill is blue, which will make you a perfect specimen of masculinity, fit, handsome, and attractive, but you have to spend the rest of your life in suits and male clothes, and the other pill is pink, which will turn you into a young and beautiful woman, with the wide variety of fashion available, but at the cost of having to work harder to gain respect and power. How many men would choose the pink pill? I don't think anybody has a clue.

When Harry Benjamin wrote his recommended treatment program for transsexuals, he knew he was addressing a psychological and psychiatric community that still viewed transgender behavior in all it's forms as a criminal act, usually associated with homosexuality, prostitution, drugs, and criminal activities of other types. Until that paper, the standard treatment for most transgenders was "therapy" that was more like torture than treatment. It usually involved being stripped naked and sprayed full force with a fire hose for a while, or being nearly drowned in ice cold water, if that didn't work, there was electro-shock, and if that didn't work, there was orbital "ice-pick" lobotomies, and if that didn't work there were full frontal lobotomies. Watch "One Flew Over the KooKoo's nest" to get just a slight taste of how the treatments usually went. Often, a doctor or hospital would drain the insurance before turning the patient over to the state psychiatric hospital, where the extreme measures were taken.

Compared to the costs of those radical and debilitating treatments, or the very high suicide rate, the cost of HRT and SRS is a bargain.

Hi,

How can a group of people like this in the WPATH, & the APA have any idear what we are about i said a few years ago they would not address our needs in a way shape or form that was for us, they have changed a few words gone about thier work as normal , i have no time for them because they wont listen & never have or will they are a farce & they wont change thier idears .

Why , well look who was posted to thier group. we can do better than they ever will. talk about a bunch of misfits , what would you expect from them, nothing,.

...noeleena...

Mainstream media projects the images that shock and sell...
They would have no "ratings" if they did shows about the real world of us ladies. Who would watch but us and a few curious people with no Monday Night Football???

Well put Cheryl! Since there is no way to count "T minded" people, we will continue to be thought of as "a very small percentage" of the population worldwide. The G and L's are coming out all the time to the world,so they get counted.However,so many "T minded" are so secretive and in denial[plus the fear of being hated],that it goes "undetected" by the mainstream world. However,we are getting more accepted every day despite anything negative.

I have had discussions very similar to this one with both my therapist and several friends and they all result in just about identical conclusions. Wait 10 years and then ask these same questions and compare the answers provided then with the answers provided now.

My therapist believes that I, a pre op transsexual woman, am just about 10 years too early to be readily accepted by the public. A mere 10 years ago, the G's and L's were just about in the same exact position that we transgendered folks are in today. Sure, we are getting noticed more, but not necessarily in a positive way, yet we are getting noticed. Slowly states are beginning to enact laws to protect us from hate and other crimes aimed at us.

I enjoy going out in public as much as possible and communicating with the people I encounter. I have been fortunate in that I have never had a negative experience within the past 5 years. Maybe I am wrong in saying that it will take 10 years for society to change and accept us. With my personal experiences I think it might not take that long after all....

:daydreaming:Wonderful summary Debbiel..............Thank you

Carlene....:daydreaming:

I wasn't aware that WPATH sees us crossdressers as mentally ill, but am aware they address the TS as in need of hormone treatment as their cure. The "TH" is for Transgender Health. According to this article, where do they split the difference of recognizing that TS is not a mental illness, while cross dressing is?

Of course, I need to re-read the philosophies of Dr. Benjamin Harris, Dr Zucker, and WPATH along with the latest and most current DSM context. Stuff that isn't over ten years old, because the older stuff did make a connection that this must be mental illness.

Let's see some direct quotes from WPATH that support we are mentally ill.

http://www.wpath.org/documents/Stand...11%20WPATH.pdf


We are not mentally ill.

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Originally Posted by DebbieL

I go all the way back to the 1950s. When I first came out to my mom at 5 years old, in 1960, she was terrified that if anyone found out they would give me electroshock or a lobotomy - that was the standard therapy for transsexuals back in those days.

The public image of Cross-dressers was Milton Berle - dressed as a very ugly woman, with a mostly Bass voice.

In 1969, you could still be arrested in most states just for appearing in public dressed as a woman. The Stonewall Riots started when Police tried to round up a bunch of drag queens and cross-dressers (hard to tell which was which back in those days).

In the 1960s and early 1970s, we saw cross-dressers on Monte Python, with falsetto voices, and bad make-up, but almost looking like matronly women.

In 1979, we had Sulka, one of the first transsexuals to make movies as both a She-male and post-op. It was easy to see that things weren't quite right.

...

Compared to the costs of those radical and debilitating treatments, or the very high suicide rate, the cost of HRT and SRS is a bargain.

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Hi DebbieL,

Thank you so much for your informative post. I urge others to read the full post, not just the part I have quoted. Treatment by HRT and SRS is a bargain for many people. For years, the American Psychiatric Association (APA) took the position that treating schizophrenia was the proper approach. According to them, if you could control the schizophrenia through drugs or other methods, then the cross-gender dressing would no longer be pursued. Transsexuals and other transgender persons strongly objected. All human beings have mixtures of feminine and masculine feelings. Genetic males/females that have strong feelings skewed toward the feminine/masculine side are a normal part of the gender variance among human beings. They don’t have an illness. They are part of the normal spectrum.

I applaud you and others who have made very important contributions on this issue. Harry Benjamin was a good man, who had good intentions; but the APA has recognized that transgender persons may know what they’re talking about, whereas WPATH still clings to the disease model.

Best regards,
Jamie Ann

A couple silly questions.

1. If you walked up to 100 people on the street and asked them what the DSM, or heck even going so far as calling it the "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual" stood for, how many do you think would answer correctly? So the general public is stigmatizing transgendered individuals based off of a book that they've never heard of before?

2. In regards to people with gender identity disorder/gender dysphoria to the point that they are willing to engage in self harm including and up to suicide, I have 2 questions.

A. How are people who have serious suicidal ideation and compulsions of self harm not mentally ill?

B. How will the wording being downgraded affect those seeking gender counseling, HRT and reassignment therapy, especially when it comes to things like insurance reimbursement?

Comparing the struggle of people with honest gender identity disorders (and, let's be honest, this is at the "I'm a man/woman born in a woman's/man's body and that disconnect is so severe that I'm willing to end my own life") to being homosexual/bisexual is rather short sighted. There's a huge difference when it comes to the practice of medicine. Namely, when a homosexual/bisexual seeks treatment for depression, it's depression. They aren't seeking (and, to be fair, there is no medical way to transition from gay to straight) medical treatment for their sexuality. When someone with a serious gender identity disorder seeks help from the medical/psychological establishment (therapy, HRT, SRS), it isn't, "Help me get through this depression," it's, "help me make my body what my mind says it should be."

If anything, the issue is not the stigmatization of people with gender identity disorders, it's the stigmatization of people with mental illness. Those that support the change while still seeking medical treatment through therapy/HRT/SRS has basically given the finger to everyone else who faces similar stigmatization because, and I mean this in a simplified, not simplistic meaning, the chemical or neurological wiring of their brain is different from "normal" (and yes, "normal" is in quotes for a reason).


I think that in the long run this is going to cause more harm to those that need medical help than it's going to help until the next DSM revision comes out.

Let me add something else.

As granted, I'm at sub-20 posts, however a large number of my posts have been in the medical section related topics for a reason. I'm a medical student. While, yes, the plural of anecdote isn't data, here's a story that should serve as a warning. During my general surgery rotation, one of the morning conferences focused on ethics. One of the questions posed was along the lines of "a patient with body dysmorphic syndrome comes in requesting an amputation of his arm, is it ethical to amputate the arm?" The surgery resident (because as with all conferences, 95% of the people in attendance just sit and watch the clock" said "No" and listed all of the dangers of surgery and the long term consequences of amputations. No real thought was given to the fact that the person might go home and, because they're so distressed at this foreign limb, try to cut it off themselves or commit suicide.

Surgery is an inherently conservative field and surgeons aren't going to engage in surgery for the heck of it and hospitals similarly aren't going to want major surgeries performed "just because." If gender identity disorder is downgraded, how much harder do you think it's going to be to find surgeons willing to train in SRS and hospitals willing to permit SRS surgeries to be performed? Complications from a surgery goes against the hospital and the surgeon. A patient committing suicide because they couldn't seek the care they needed given the current understanding of brain chemistry, wiring, and development doesn't.

Hi Alexis! I will hit on a few points.

First, I think the idea that there are changes in the DSM are relevant for those that want to get therapy. Since not all therapists are gender specialists, what is in the DSM can have an affect on the lives of many of us. So yes, it won't change the opinion of the person on the street, but that is true for things in many medical texts.

As far as your second question, wanting to do self harm or commit suicide is enough cause for insurance coverage and support of the medical community. I don't think the underlying reason really matters as the intent is the serious part. So what I feel is that those of us that seek therapy and other help are covered by having gender dysphoria. If you go to a more severe level, then you have gender dysphoria with suicidal tendencies or BIID (Body Integrity Identity Disorder). It will be interesting to see how this affects insurance coverage of HRT and SRS. We would like to think that dysphoria is enough to get these funded, but I am sure that the insurance industry potentially relooks the coverage of anything going through a classification change to determine their coverage level. So although there has been progress in these being covered, there is the potential for a bump in the road.

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Originally Posted by ImAlexis

Let me add something else.

As granted, I'm at sub-20 posts, however a large number of my posts have been in the medical section related topics for a reason. I'm a medical student. While, yes, the plural of anecdote isn't data, here's a story that should serve as a warning. During my general surgery rotation, one of the morning conferences focused on ethics. One of the questions posed was along the lines of "a patient with body dysmorphic syndrome comes in requesting an amputation of his arm, is it ethical to amputate the arm?" The surgery resident (because as with all conferences, 95% of the people in attendance just sit and watch the clock" said "No" and listed all of the dangers of surgery and the long term consequences of amputations. No real thought was given to the fact that the person might go home and, because they're so distressed at this foreign limb, try to cut it off themselves or commit suicide.

Surgery is an inherently conservative field and surgeons aren't going to engage in surgery for the heck of it and hospitals similarly aren't going to want major surgeries performed "just because." If gender identity disorder is downgraded, how much harder do you think it's going to be to find surgeons willing to train in SRS and hospitals willing to permit SRS surgeries to be performed? Complications from a surgery goes against the hospital and the surgeon. A patient committing suicide because they couldn't seek the care they needed given the current understanding of brain chemistry, wiring, and development doesn't.

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Boob job, nose job, face lift, liposuction, they do surgeries all the time "just because"

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Originally Posted by almostalady

Boob job, nose job, face lift, liposuction, they do surgeries all the time "just because"

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...with drastically different short and long term risks. Not all surgeries are the same. A nose job doesn't require a real life experience first.