The Cross-dresser and the Phantom Limb

Okay, so there has to be a reason for this whole thing, and I will not stop until I have a working theory at least. This is going to be a long one, so bear with me.

I cannot accept explanation for my transgendersim and borderline compulsion to dress as “this is just how you are,” and I resent being told to “buck up and get on with it” by people I talk to. (Not here, mind you, you are all great… which is why I am asking you all to ponder with me.)

I am a behaviorist, but I also cannot deny the mechanical part of the brain plays a huge role on how the personality drives and desires come out. I have been reading everything I can about behavioral and gender issues for the past few years, but I also love Psychology so I read anything brain based I can get my hands on as a hobby, which brings me back to my issue…

The other day at the bookstore, I saw a guy with a missing arm, and it reminded me of the work of Vilayanur Ramachandran, one of the bright minds of our time. He worked with amputees who were experiencing “phantom limb syndrome. “

The theory is that after the limb is gone, the brain keeps sending signals back to get a response, almost like a system check. “Is the arm still there? Let’s check… send an itch.”

Their brains kept sending pain signals back to their “stump” looking for an arm or leg, and they got bounced back to the brain with no response. SO the brain amped up the signal and made more.

Pain is a construct of the brain. The nerves and limb were not there, so the brain made every attempt to get a response because it could not come to terms with there being no limb. The limb should be there… send more.

Ramachandaran took some of his patients, and made a mirror box which created the illusion that the phantom limb was actually there. It reflected the arm, and when the patients looked in , they saw two hands, one on each side. The pain went away in a lot of his patients by just seeing the ILLUSION of a limb there!

http://www.macalester.edu/psychology...achandran.html

So… here is where cross-dressing comes in.

As a result of various endocrine disrupting chemicals in the atmosphere, water, and food; some of which can make hormone changes in the body and brain’s development in utero and after, a male fetus can develop with female brain structures (or vice versa).

Maybe you don’t just feel like a woman in a man’s body… maybe you actually do have the wrong brain, or something in-between.

If this were true, you’d potentially have a female cognitive map of your body in your somatosensory and primary motor cortex. You would want to see breasts, hips, a rounded face, correct sex organs, etc. because that is what was imprinted in your brain during fetal development.

When you look in the mirror and see the wrong gender, you don’t feel itchy, phantom breasts, but you do feel a great amount of anxiety, longing, and dissatisfaction. In extreme cases, this leads some people to do body modification to create the right body. Under the wrong circumstances, it can cause terrible feelings of despair and desperation.

The mirror is the key in my theory, though.

This would explain why, after I get really upset and pent up, I feel better after I dress and stand in front of the mirror. I see what should be there and the “pain” subsides.

I think this whole thing is more of brain hardware issue just as much a behavior issue. Nurture plays a huge role here too, but I think Nature got messed up by mankind’s attempt of “better living through chemistry.”

Thanks for reading. What do you think?

Sorry but it doesn't work for me. I don't like what I see.

I've always thought that something along these lines was the cause. I think in regards to the nurture aspect I remember thinking its almost as if to deal with being single for so long, its like I've tried to become my own perfect woman, and I have a vague memory of my ex girlfriend saying a similar thing too. Someone also (I forget who) said that adverts are always showing a beautiful perfect woman as the ultimate human, with much less in the way of a male counterpart, so I think sometimes transgendered feelings can be kickstarted by depression or stress of some kind. I hope that makes lol, it sounded better in my head

its vary interesting ... i remember reading a study somewhere that talks about tg and ts brain set up. they say allot of times
there is what looks a hybrid brain a mix between male and female, the more female or male it looks towerds the oppsit sex
of the owner the more likly that person is going to be ts.. ive read lots of different theirys tho..

Being in my sixties I'm sure my mom was not subject to any food additives that affected me in the womb. My grandma cooked from scratch. It is possible for chemicals that are not natural to alter functioning. I know that from exposure to toxins that have altered some of my organs. I know it is possible for chromosome damage to be passed on through sperm which will cause birth defects. Girls are developing earlier than in the past. Kids are fatter and headed for diabetes.

I'll throw this out. If a chemicals and/or with nurturing may produce cross dressing tendencies, does that affect/encourage the development of gays and lesbians?

I think the individual and society should just accept what are person is rather than trying to figure out how he or she got there. Too much time is spent trying to understand and "correct" some traits that does not conform to the established/expected norms.

Emily, I've done a lot reading on our subject too. The mirror is a killer for me too. I feel like I'm missing the parts I should have especially breasts. That seems to define what my eyes and brain want to see and feel. I feel wrong. I can say the same about what's down there. It seems like an abnormal growth that needs to be removed because it doesn' "belong" there. Even my skin feels wrong. It should be smooth. That's how I feel and it does lead to a unique kind of depression for me.

I do know that my mother experienced an extreme amount of stress in her 7th and 8th month carrying me. There is evidence to support our being due to excessive saturation of female hormones to our brain during our gestation.

Cheryl Ann

You ARE right about the mirror...

In that MEN'S VISION is the glue that binds "the vast majority" of CDers. More accurately, WHAT men see and how it affects them. ALL those "other" CD sites that many here mention quite frequently as well as the popularity of the picture gallery? And the type pics that get the most views? The TYPE threads taht get the most views and responses? Fuel for the fire. Close the pic gallery down and this site would probably fold. Get rid of the avatars and profile pics too? This site would be a graveyard in a week.

People can and will argue till the cows come home about the ratios of MtF/FtM...

Of course it is extremely lopsided.

Simply becsause Females' VISION [for their own protection courtesy of Mother Nature] doesn't so easily "cause an itch" as it does in men.

Of course many here got started at 3 or 4 or 5 or whatever years old. No doubt about it, some WERE born into the wrong body.

Others I believe use that early age starting as an excuse BECAUSE they feel guilty about CDing. As in, I can't help myself...I started very young.

They say Curiosity killed the cat. Undoubtedly. Possibly killed a few young children too but I doubt if putting on "some" wrong clothing items at an early age killed very many children.

If Humans were not a Curious species, we would still be living in caves.

There have been many newer studies done on "phantom limbs" btw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

Being in my sixties I'm sure my mom was not subject to any food additives that affected me in the womb.

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Actually, your mother may have been given or have been inadvertently exposed to DES. This was toted as a miricle drug to make bigger, healthier babies from the 50s to the early 70s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol

I am aware of the phantom limb syndrome and it's relationship to amputees.
But that is where it stops for me, I see no connection with dressing at all.

I credit you with thinking this out and there are others that could hold a better discussion than I.

I await the advancement of this thread into a more esoteric discussion.

I'm a Nature Girl. I think that the chemists are winning the war with the behaviorists.

Sorry Emily, My brain is mega hard wired in BOY mode.
My girls get lost going around the block whereas I can be anywhere on the planet, but in 48 years never been lost, not even after being 6 hours into dense bush as an unaccompanied 5 year old.
Also I understand the molecular structure of metals, wood and can see stress points in buildings or the plans of a building.
I see electron flow in cables and semiconductors without trouble.

The girl side? I don't care where she comes from, she is just mega fun and while I would never want to be her, I enjoy it when she takes over my skin bag for a while

Emily, I am with you all the way through the phantom pain data. After that A is not necessarily related to B in the argument structure. (Argument in the classical sense and not in the fighting sense.) We will not know the real reason for all of this behavior until more advanced studies of the brain have taken place. I would volunteer but there isn't a PET scanner strong enough to find the object to be studied.

Put simply, it's basically an "avatar" that we manifest and utilize to get in touch with our feelings. Our basic body is the raw material. Sort of like the old Captain Action doll who could become a plethora of heroes at will. Works for me anyway.;):)Edit: Basically, the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.

I am like a little child on this matter. Who cares why? It simply IS and I am happy to accept the way I am.

I understand the theory of phantom limbs, but I wasn't aware of the actual mirror experiment. Interesting that there is a response to the images created by the mirror. However, the problem with extrapolating this is that we, humans, don't tend to spend that much time in front of a mirror. You may have a positive reaction now, but it may be some time before you see a mirror again. We can't, or perhaps I should say shouldn't, spend significant time in front of a mirror...

We are mammals living within a natural environment so have instinctual impulses hardwired into our brains.

Our identity is than laid over top of this so gender and sexual identity is partly aquired after birth.

It is a dance between what was "before" and what came "later" but the later is built on top of the foundation of the "before" so does not stand independent of it. (you cannot escape your biology)

Sexual identity is strongly influenced by prenatal hormones and womb environment so homosexual versus heterosexual "impulses" are created before birth.

What someone does with these impulses is another matter because they can "to a point" be consciously ignored and resisted but the person will experience dissonance between doing what feels "natural to them" and what they are trying to force themselves to do, creating a push pull tension inside them.

Environmental toxins have a profound impact on the fetus through the mother and everything from her smoking, diet, alcohol to emotional stress will impact fetal development.

The mother largely decides the shape of the childs future experiences.

One example is Polycystic Ovarian syndrome which is said to affect ten percent of women and may be a contributing factor to the rise in autism and ADHD in children, which in my opinion is tied to hormonal changes during fetal development creating vulnerabilities after birth.

This is handed down genetically but probably is due to epigenetic causes so once it is "switched on" the problem becomes how to "switch it off"

Another is how estrogen as oral contraceptives affects her long term body chemistry and whether this can cause permanent epigenetic changes so she is changing her "genes" by switching them on or off and this carries on to the children she produces.

Hormones have the potential to permanently alter the human genome in ways nature never intended.

Those with xy chromosomes are more vulnerable to genetic disturbances than those with XX because damage to one X is made up by the other X and this is one reason you see certain mental disturbances in higher proportions with those who have XY versus XX

Identity accquistion is strongly determined by the brain structure which is strongly determined by hormones which is determined by the mothers own chemistry that acts on her genetics by making epigenetic changes to her.

There are a number of biological markers that trans and homosexuals show that differ from cisgenders and heterosexuals so everyone is "created" as what and who they are "naturally" just as there are biological markers for autism, williams syndrome or any of hundreds of other variations in nature.

In nature there really is no "normal" but instead huge variety but through human behavior we are affecting "nature" so affecting what nature "creates" which is "us"

Nature always creates based on the environment that life finds itself living in, so life creates life to the degree it affects its environment.

Human behavior has fundamentally altered nature in ways never before seen in nature.

Hormones may be the way life and environment "talk" to each other so that changes to the genetic structure through epigenetic changes can be made to inhance survival of life.

By changing the chemical environment we have disrupted this conversation confusing "nature"

We live within a inescapable closed system

It should be an interesting ride if we survive it.

Interesting. I really like your theory. For me gender is a complete and utter social/ cultural construct. Humans don't appear to be intrinsically wired with what a woman should look like vs. what a man should look like. I would imagine that dirty job would fall to society. Then again, is two genders really enough to describe the human species? Heck, it takes 15 different race classifications for our nation to get a clearer picture of its own population. In short, the binary classification system is broken.


I hope this thread keeps generating more post, as they are quite insightful!

I think I get something like this. I had a life changing event the first time I dressed fully with makeup and wig along with the clothes. Something happened that never happened wearing just the clothes. I saw me for the first time in my life. I was very shaken by this. Even now I feel better when I see myself as a woman or even when I look down and see breasts. I feel very disconnected when dressed as a man.

By shaken I mean it changed my life. From that day to now has been nine months and I have massively changed my body, why else would I have the resolve to do that.

Here is an example of how female sexual and gender identity are both affected by hormones....

"We assessed core gender identity, sexual orientation, and recalled childhood gender role behavior in 16 women and 9 men with congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) and in 15 unaffected female and 10 unaffected male relatives, all between the ages of 18 and 44 years. Women with CAH recalled significantly more male‐typical play behavior as children than did unaffected women, whereas men with and without CAH did not differ. Women with CAH also reported significantly less satisfaction with the female sex of assignment and less heterosexual interest than did unaffected women. Again, men with CAH did not differ significantly from unaffected men in these respects. Our results for women with CAH are consistent with numerous prior reports indicating that girls with CAH show increased male‐typical play behavior. They also support the hypotheses that these women show reduced heterosexual interest and reduced satisfaction with the female sex of assignment. Our results for males are consistent with most prior reports that boys with CAH do not show a general alteration in childhood play behavior. In addition, they provide initial evidence that core gender identity and sexual orientation are unaffected in men with CAH. Finally, among women with CAH, we found that recalled male‐typical play in childhood correlated with reduced satisfaction with the female gender and reduced heterosexual interest in adulthood. Although prospective studies are needed, these results suggest that those girls with CAH who show the greatest alterations in childhood play behavior may be the most likely to develop a bisexual or homosexual orientation as adults and to be dissatisfied with the female sex of assignment."

Link....http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...24490409552215

Way over my head.All I know is that I love being a woman and when I can't dress,I long for when I can.

I think you may be on to something. Very interesting theory...I will have to ponder this. Thanks for the food for thought.

Emily, that's an interesting (dare I say pithy?) theory and one I will ponder. It does ring a bell of familiarity. But if you are right, why don't crossdressers report (for example) phantom itching or sensation where a breast should be? When my nipple itches it's my real nipple, not the artificial one a couple of inches away, even though that's what I see.

It seems to me that phantom sensations come from where tissue used to be, not where it was "supposed" to be.