Pictures, Impressions and Passing/ er... Best Presentation

I have looked at so many pictures over the years and have been impressed by so many who are better than me at dressing and presenting with a refined look.


But when I look at images and see a bad wig, it is a tell. Perhaps it is not a bad wig, but a bad hair style...I don't know.


I don't think, unless your dress like a hooker in the middle of a small texas town, that the clothes, if appropriate for the setting, would be a tell. Perhaps the hands and feet, but clothes? Thoughts?


For the sake of dialog, do you feel the same or are there different things that you see in pictures and in person that were a tell for that person you saw, or that picture you looked at that told you boom....that is a guy?


My thought is that if we are to eliminate as many factors as possible to pass or look as good as possible, what would we best avoid doing... and what are the top one or two items that are a sure give away outside of hands and feet and an occasional adam's apple...they are kind of attached to us and unless you know something I don't, there is no way to change these features that I know of ...


Vanny

I try to present my best looks when out enfemme.... but I don't try to pass... mater of fact I think I rarely pass.... but that's not important as long as I look good... what other people wear is really no concern of mine.... everyone has their reasons and style.....

When I look at pix on here, I have noted that many cd's don't know how to stand and pose for a pic. I see many pix where the person has great clothing, makeup and wig, but they stand like a linebacker or a gorilla.

Great presentation has much to do with body carriage, gestures, and facial expression. you get any of these wrong and the whole thing falls apart.

Jodi

Absolutely agree with Vanessa and Jodi about posing (for pictures obviously). At the end of the day, most of us are in fact just guys playing a part, but sometimes that last little bit like a pose sometimes goes against years of conditioning of doing otherwise.

I think passability is an admirable goal to shoot for, but like Karren said, maybe it's not the end all be all. For me anyway, it's just a fun hobby.

As far as tells go? Just a few off the top of my head:

- Too much makeup. Sometimes I think we get too excited about trying this or trying that, and seeing as how (for myself anyway), some of us don't dress THAT often, some girls seem to want to try several different things at the same time. Sometimes that comes across as being overly made up, which seems to be the opposite of what GGs are looking for which is a more "natural" look.

- I agree on the wigs. As a wig owner myself though, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the cheaper (and thus more accessible) wigs are synthetic, and appear so in pictures. It's sort of got an unnatural amount of shine in pictures, and looks synthetic to a certain degree (think, animated pixar movie type of hair)

- Broad shoulders (in pictures) I know this isn't something that can be controlled (I certainly wish I could shrink mine), but there are certain poses that can lessen the impact of big shoulders

- Camera angle. This one is tricky. For most of us, we have to take our own pictures, and for me at least, this has meant setting up the tripod, setting the timer, running into position, frantically trying to find a feminine pose, and trying my best to hold it and get everything ready in the 3 second race to the finish. The problem becomes though, that at the end of a session of 3-300 outfits, ALL my pictures ended up being from the EXACT SAME vantage point. Ever since, I've done my best to try to see what kinds of pictures GGs take, and see if I can replicate that (which honestly nowadays seems to be either a selfie shot or webcam shot). The trend I've noticed these days is a lot of these pictures are taken from at least eye level, but usually even higher, pointing down at the face. The benefit to this being that as it puts more focus on the face, my shoulders seem less broad than when the camera is lower and looking up at my face. I don't know if any of that made sense.

This is an interesting topic though for sure...

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Originally Posted by Jodi

When I look at pix on here, I have noted that many cd's don't know how to stand and pose for a pic. I see many pix where the person has great clothing, makeup and wig, but they stand like a linebacker or a gorilla.

Great presentation has much to do with body carriage, gestures, and facial expression. you get any of these wrong and the whole thing falls apart.

Jodi

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Jodi,

Where you words also ring true are on some videos posted on the likes of You Tube. Good figure, sensibly dressed, not too much makeup, decent hair. Then they start to walk and it's like there's a melon between the top of the legs. Like so many have said here before, the mannerisms are as, if not more, important than a lot of the other facets of passing or at least not standing out like a sore thumb. All praise to those who get out there but walk like you're on your way to a cage fight and you'll be noticed.

I see girl at different stages, doing the best they can with what they have, then other I wonder what they were thinking.

The shoulders kill me! I used to think it was my skinny hips, but I'm starting to realize it's just in comparison to my shoulder frame. It's a shame, because the rest of me is so slender. Oh well.

Anyone have tips or links on body language, how to stand, postures or photos that flatter?

Clothes don't have to be a tell, but cross-dressers typically are not the most modest or fashionable lot, so it's very likely your attention is drawn towards them because of their clothes. Combine that with the fact that 99% of the cross-dressers wil get read under any amount of scrutiny and your clothing style starts to become very important.

Obviously not everyone cares about getting read or are unwilling to sacrifice their 'style' for their 'stealthiness'.

The facial structure typically is the last remaining tell for me assuming everything else is perfect (e.g. not a 'linebacker' in a skirt), but you cannot really change that, only de-emphasise. I agree with Jodi that the one thing many people can improve is the way they pose or stand in their pictures. It doesn't require any money or 'good genes', just a little training.

I dunno, I guess my approach is just to always give it my best shot and not worry that much about it. I'm mostly doing it for myself anyway, no one else.:)

I believe what give most girls away is their voice and non feminine movements, If you walk and talk like a lumberjack you're not going to pass

Stance, deportment and general presentation all combine to a success or failure of not being clocked.

Well, one Great thing is, someone can ask for *constructive* critique here....
and feel like it's just that. Some places just jump all over some girls and
scare them away. That's pretty disappointing to see that sort of thing happen.
I appreciate some well intentioned guidance myself.

If there's a "cure", it could be asking "how do I look?" at a few places I've seen.
Those poor things will never ask that question again.

(I haven't seen Any of that selfish rudeness here.)

It all takes practice and trial & error --and having a sense of humor goes a
Very long way. It's supposed to be fun!...(isn't it?)

:happy: ♥

I also try to look the best I can, but despite my height and man hands, I also hope to blend in somewhat. I think it's working out. I don't see people stopping and pointing, bursting out laughing or walking into light posts with stunned expressions.

My strategies are pretty familiar ...foundations that give me a more feminine shape, situation appropriate attire, a good quality wig chosen to complement (or compensate for) my facial structure, carefully applied make up...and I try to act like I own the place, or at least my small part of it. I make eye contact, smile and interact freely.

If I think about the CDs at my local support group a few things stand out. Most of the wigs I see are..well..obviously wigs. They may not be bad wigs but they may be worn badly or just be cheep, a cheep wig is easy to spot. I've seen a lot of clownish make up. Way too short skirts or dresses! Unless you're 16 no woman would wear her skirt or dress THAT short! It's hard to find dresses that are long enough if your tall but they are out there and its worth the time spent looking. The People at my local support group go out for dinner once a month. For many of the CDs this is the only time they dress up so they understandably like to do it up, but how many woman get dolled up just to meet with some friends on a thursday night in february. its kind of a give away.

All good advice and most of the basic errors mentioned here, ie pose. Wig. Make up and stance I have been guilty of all. Dosnt stop me trying and i have improved, but still a lot to improve. So much to do and never enoug time to perfect. X

Vanny, it's a good question, and lot's of good answers, so I won't repeat all of them (just some... :heehee:)

I think a lot of the picture posts here are at home pics taken for the benefit of the subject (:surrender: guilt as charged, m'lud...) and for sharing with the community here. Dressing to pass in a photo, and in one's home bathroom, doesn't feel particularly... worth it. So, I don't think you can necessarily draw conclusions from how gals look or dress from all the photos here - but obviously real life is a different matter (I doubt that I would dare the shorter skirts I wear at home if going out... but go on, dare me! :devil:).

One area that has helped me is - setting aside the narcissistic side - watching video of myself walk and move. OMG! First time I ever did that was totally diabolical - it was me, dressed, and more or less doing the guy walk (combining Helen and Jodi; a gorilla with a melon between its legs :eek:). I nearly had another purge on the strength of a 40 second video clip. But then I told myself, if I want to improve (ie. look more passable), I have to be prepared to swallow a bit of self-pride and work on the walk, gait, mannerisms - and I have to admit, I've found it even more fascinating than I used to - and little things like the hair flick, the head shake, the skirt tug (all beloved of our GG icons :)) are starting to be more natural.

I agree with others who eschew passing - it is about blending, not standing out, about being... inoffensive, in a feminine sense. But at home, it's pure, unadulterated, exhibitionism. And why not! :cheer:

Katey x

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Originally Posted by erindemia

The shoulders kill me! I used to think it was my skinny hips, but I'm starting to realize it's just in comparison to my shoulder frame. It's a shame, because the rest of me is so slender. Oh well.

Anyone have tips or links on body language, how to stand, postures or photos that flatter?

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I have one suggestion for the shoulders... if you buy an outfit with pads in the shoulders... rip them out! and turning your upper body away from the camera might help.

I see vast differences in the posts also but I chalk it up to that everyone is on a different step of the ladder and they are all trying to do their best to improve their look, I am sure if we all look back on our own pictures throughout the years we got better, it could be anything from finally finding that right wig that looks best, to getting better at make-up, accessorizing, posing, smiling, and all the little details that help add to a persons overall appearance. It's nice to see the evolution of a cd gurl going from first pictures maybe looking like a deer caught in the headlights perhaps to smiling since she has become more comfortable and confident and the outcome of working on all these things.

From a distance, the biggest giveaway is the proportion of hips to shoulders (that's why some of us like to wear hip padding). Up close, big hands are a common tell (I love the winter, when I can wear gloves), but others are dependent on the individual. Common problems are height, size/shape of nose, and general bone structure of the face (at least the last can be somewhat mitigated by skillfully applied make-up, and sometimes arm muscles.

I think when you first begin to dress the excitement of that first full time mode gets the better part of you and you will over do it with the makeup and the clothing, but with experience you get the hang of it and dress accordingly. By that I mean dress age appropriate and stay away from the look that suggest that of a female impersonator or Mimi from the Drew Carey show.:eek:

Things that I can instantly tell:

Bad wig. Or its on wrong. I have worn a wig as well and it didn't look wiggy when I wore it becuase it was a good wig, and I made sure it was centered, didn't have bumps.Etc.

General structure of the face or Adams apple. Cant change this unless you are a makeup wizard.

Beard shadow.

bad posing!!!! THIS ONE. so often i go in the picture thread and see someone posing with their legs wide open. WOMEN do NOT sit like that! Or put their hands in strange places. I think people might be studying too much what fashion models do. Those women contrort their bodies to get interesting angles. I think most CDers should open up a women s catalog and look how a lot of them are posed. Less "high fashion" more natural. Pose for pictures like that.

Sometimes makeup that is too dramatic for the outfit. Taking a picture in jeans and a top? Why do your eyes look like and 80's porn movie? Or the wrong "contour lines" where they enhance your masculine features instead of mask them.

I do get quite impressed by some of the ladies here though. If I take the time to comment on a picture thread it means they did a really good job or I want an item of clothing they have, or both. :)

So many great comments, I agree with them all. One very small tip that I learned from JoAnn at her much-missed I Love It Girl studio: when you're posing for a photo, instead of clenching your hands like many of us do to try to make them look smaller, spread your fingers apart a bit...it makes your hands look more feminine.

I actually want to do a set of photos illustrating how much a difference things such as posture and smile can make. Usually my goal is to pass but that's only because I want to blend, I want the world to see "just another girl". If I'm terrified and hunch my back over, I'll draw attention to myself anyway and then people will really start to analyze. I've never been clocked in public, or rather, I've never bothered to pay attention to people long enough to tell if they're clocking me or just glancing. Let me tell you, in a typical day, even when not dressed, you get a lot of glances.

As for pictures, the biggest give away is the scowl on the faces that some girls might have, such as "why did you do this to me". If you really look like you're enjoying yourself a lot of people will find that attractive and generally focus on positives about your appearance. I generally try to see the "whole package" anyway rather than focusing on wrong foundation or a bad wig... Also arm hair is a dead give away.