Found out Dad is CD (I'm unsure about his gender identity though)- How to Approach?

Good morning everyone! Steel yourselves for some serious over-sharing!

Almost 11 years ago, I found out my dad was a cross-dresser. He sleep walks when he drinks (which is regularly and heavily, but considering the isolation he probably feels, I can't say I blame him), and slept-walked into my room while dressed up. I snooped later that week and found the breast inserts, dresses, makeup, and a journal (I didn't read past page one). He doesn't know that I know, and to my knowledge, I'm the only one who does know. I've waited all these years for him to bring it up. I didn't want to push him or force him to "out" himself to me; I figured that knowing how passionate I am about social activism (mostly LGBT equality, feminism, immigration reform), he would know that his being a cross dresser doesn't change the way I feel about him (except maybe to elicit more empathy/compassion on my part). The only thing that EVER bothered me about his CD was that he felt so alienated and shamed that he felt he couldn't be honest with me about who he is.

Here's the thing, I recently started a program for recovery from childhood trauma (nothing to do with his CD; a lot to do with being left with mom and her 5 subsequent husbands because my dad was pretty close to "absentee" status). I suffer from PTSD. I chose to self-medicate for the last 11 years (alternating between 4 or 5 choices to avoid physical dependence), but as my child-bearing years rapidly approach, I knew I had to face the issues without crutches. I never hit "rock bottom" with the drugs, I have always been high-functioning, and suffered no withdrawals when I stopped using. For this reason, I chose trauma recovery over drug recovery (attack the root, not the result). Anyways, part of my recovery is to confront people that I feel aided or ignored my victimization, and to expose myself to trauma-triggers until I can face them without panic attacks/flashbacks/relentless nightmares. I also need to be honest and tell him that he will not be walking me down the aisle (not because of CD, because he invited his "friend" who caused about 40% of my trauma- which my dad never believed-to his last wedding. I'll be damned if I allow him to be a part of mine.) While I'm at it, I should probably tell him that any future children will not be allowed unsupervised grandpa visits (again, not the CD, but the aforementioned negligent care-taking).

I wanted to confront both of these issues during the same conversation, just because I don't think I can mentally handle two separate conversations of this... magnitude? My concerns are as follows: 1) I don't want him to think that my bringing up CD in the same conversation as my resentment/anger towards him is indicative of a causal link between the two. The opposite is true- I'm hoping that by discussing CD, I can add a positive hi-light to an otherwise dark conversation, and 2) Is it wrong/damaging to confront someone with their CD? This one has been a real struggle for me. I don't like the idea of him feeling isolated, like he can't be himself, like no one really knows him. But at the same time, I don't want to alienate him by forcing the issue.

Obviously, this is a lot more complicated than just discussing CD. And while I realize most of you may not be able to identify with all of my story, I'm hoping that as CDs, you will at least be able to give me some perspective.

-Liz

I think this is going to take more than one conversation, Liz. There are three issues:
1. His alcoholism
2. The abuse you suffered at the hand of his friend.
3. His crossdressing / gender issues - whatever the deal is. Although it's most likely a big contributor to his alcoholism.

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Originally Posted by lzbth

The only thing that EVER bothered me about his CD was that he felt so alienated and shamed that he felt he couldn't be honest with me about who he is.

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I can't speak for your father, but I don't tell my daughter what I do and it has nothing to do with shame of being a CDer.

* First, there's just little reason to share intimate details of your sex life with your children.
* Second, I don't want it to mess with her life. She's in her 20s now and I think could handle the news just fine. But what if she gets a boyfriend who's against it and it ruins their relationship? There's just no reward associated with the risks of coming out to her.

As to talking with your father, I don't think it's wrong. Just let him know ahead of time that the conversion will be an important one, not about the local sports team. And make sure you tell him you still love and respect him. Basically, handle it the way you'd want it to be handled if he was talking to you instead.

Also, make sure you'll clearly separate the talk about CDing and that other guy. Make sure he understands they are two different topics.

Liz, a quick clarification...does he know you CD? From what you have said I am guessing yes, but I am unsure.

@sammie - Liz is a GG. Her Dad is the CD.

To be really frank, this crossdressing is the least of the things you should dwell on. The fact he stood by and allowed his child to be molested and damaged is a trillion times worse than private crossdressing, and he really deserves to be torn to pieces over that. The fact he abandoned his family makes him a pretty bad person, the fact he stood by and let another man hurt you makes him as evil and the man who hurt you. I don't care if he dresses or he suffers from level 6 high intensity transsexualism, there is no excuse on earth that justifies what he allowed to happen to you.

Unless you are dependent on him in some capacity, I would seriously consider jettisoning him from your life completely. A father who will stand by while his child is molested is not a man, much less a father. Your children do not need a man like that in their lives at all.

Ooop, sorry, my mistake.:o

Yes, I agree with Paula. The first two issues are serious negative topics that should be dealt with by themselves individually or maybe lumped together depending how the conversation goes. I would guess that he is aware that you have suffered because of his behavior, but maybe or maybe not the behavior of his friend. That being said, he probably does not realize the extent to which he has hurt you and your life for all these years. Those could be some very serious and heavy discussions, or may be better than you think.

I would definitely handle the CD side later after you get through or almost through, the first two. It could also be a good positive opportunity to re-bond and strengthen your relationship with your dad. If you see your father regularly, you may have some follow on conversations with him about the first two issues as both of you grow into this new open and honest communication mode. Once you and hopefully your dad are in a better situation about those first two issues, that could maybe be a good time to bring up the other one and complete your personal task of confronting past issues.

If you stay around here long enough and read enough posts about how many members here struggle with their transgender nature, you will begin to learn that there are some very serious issues and impacts on their personalities from shame, frustration, insecurity, and a lot of others. Now, when we use transgender" around here it generally means, but is not totally accepted, that the term is an umbrella term covering crossdressers (CD's)to full on transsexuals (TS's) who are the opposite gender to what their physical attributes and organs are. All of this over a great big spectrum from a little bit to a whole lot. So, who knows where dad is along that spectrum and how well, or not so well, he has been able to deal with that side of himself? He may not even know.

You say that you are in a program to help you deal with your PTSD. Is there someone running that program who has the professional qualifications to share all this with and offer you some one on one advice? Our opinions here will vary all over the place and are based on each one of our individual experiences and points of view. This is not a bad source to get an idea about this side of the human population, but we are far from qualified to really give you good sound advice based on what little you can write here. I.e. professional counseling is recommended before you start these serious conversations with your dad and both of your pasts, presents and futures. Good luck and thanks for loving your dad.

Please do not address both issues in the same discussion. You may be able to compartmentalize the issues but I can assure you he
cannot. There is guilt attached to all three. People who experience guilt cannot easily isolate those feelings. My suggestion is to decide which of the issues is most critical to your health, and proceed from there. Good luck!

Hello lzbth,
there is no real excuse in isolating yourself from your children but I think that you have some idea that it could be a lot down to the CDing which can make some feel very isolated themselves, it sounds like you want a last attempt to sort this out so I would go for it and directly talk about the CDing but realise that at first it may hit him back a bit knowing that you know and then after a while he will get use to you knowing and hopefully things will improve for you both .

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond!

Paula: After your (and others') input, I think you're right- two totally different topics should be discussed on different occasions.

Whisper: I'm not sure his CD is about sex; it could be personal expression, gender identity, everyone is unique. We come from a very prejudiced Catholic background (parochial school and all), which is why I think he feels ashamed about it.

Vickie: I think it's nice that you're so passionate in my defense, and I genuinely appreciate it. "Compassion isn't just for those who deserve it" (I paraphrased that from somewhere!). My dad's definitely not a good person, or a good father, but I choose to forgive what some may think is unforgivable. Removing him from my life has been discussed in group and with my therapist, and I'm honestly still considering it as an option, once I have the chance to say my piece to him... A lot of that will come down to whether or not he is, 1) contrite? or 2) unrepentant?

Allie: My individual therapy is being done with a licensed therapist and the support group meetings I go to are usually run by a licensed counselor, though sometimes a "Facilitator" (i.e. Survivor). I don't discuss my dad in group, out of respect for his privacy. I think outing someone is one of the ugliest things a person can do to another. I do, however, discuss it with my therapist, as it's confidential... I figured a CD forum would offer me a perspective I wouldn't find elsewhere (right again! :-P). And I agree wholeheartedly now, after reading these posts, that the conversations should be kept separate.

Jayme: I agree, and can definitely see the logic in your explanation. I think I'll start with the bad stuff (get the hardest part out of the way!). When things calm down, I'll address the CD calmly and anger-free!

Thanks again for helping me out, everyone! Have an awesome weekend!

Thanks Joanne! :)

After re-reading the post and letting it sink in a bit more, there really are a lot of issues there. Drugs, PTSD, abuse, neglect, alcoholism, cross dressing, divorce.

I think that if you have this chat with your father, you should do it with a therapist. I also wouldn't expect to resolve all these issues in one sitting.

Liz - just a little background on me, that may or may not be helpful with your Dad. I've been a recovering alcoholic for 24 years - I've been sober the whole time. I started drinking in large part because of my gender issues. That may or may not be the case with your Dad, but it's super common amongst folks in the transgender spectrum. In my case, my gender issues were really what pushed me into drinking in the first place. Quickly, though, alcohol became its own problem.

Don't underestimate the difficulty your Dad may face talking about his gender. You'd think I'd have confronted my gender issues when I sobered up. Nope. If you'd held a gun to my head and told me "I know you are hiding something Scott, spill it!", I'd have taken that bullet back then, before I talked about my gender.

I'd suggest you might talk to a counselor who deals with alcoholism before you confront your Dad, and / or attend a few al-anon meetings. If you have any questions about any of this, feel free to PM me (after you've made 10 posts), or just ask me in the thread. I don't mind talking about either my gender issues (I'm transitioning), or my alcoholism.

Good luck hon, and God bless you both.

Let's separate the alcohol from the CDing. He needs to get that stuff under control...ie...go into a drug program before he can ever feel good about himself again. You needn't threaten his opportunity to be a grandparent to as yet unborn children. Instead focus on his health. Sobriety is the key.

If and when he gets sober, then you can talk about his gender identity.

Ps, I'd read and retread Paula's advice.

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Originally Posted by lzbth

I recently started a program for recovery from childhood trauma...As my child-bearing years rapidly approach, I knew I had to face the issues without crutches...Part of my recovery is to confront people that I feel aided or ignored my victimization

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Hi Liz,

I'm married to a CDer, and I hope it's okay if I comment here. What jumps out at me is that you just recently started your program. Is the program telling you to confront enablers, or is that your own desire driving it? What do you hope to get out of confronting them? Do you want them to be different, or do you just want them to understand you?

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I also need to be honest and tell him that he will not be walking me down the aisle [because he allowed abuse and didn't believe me]... While I'm at it, I should probably tell him that any future children will not be allowed unsupervised grandpa visits

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Are you getting married soon? You talk about your 'child-bearing years' but you don't mention a partner whom you will be marrying and having children with. If none of that is happening this year, I would leave it out of the current conversation. I would also leave the CDing out of the conversation. To me, it seems irrelevant to his poor choices regarding you. Have the CDing conversation later, if you've rebuilt your relationship to a point where you feel you respect him and want him in your life. If you don't want him in your life, then there's no point in bringing it up at all.

To me, the point of the upcoming conversation is just to say the same thing you've told him before: his friend abused you; your dad didn't believe you; and that is threatening your relationship with your dad. You're giving him an opportunity to repair his mistake -- no need to put him even more on the defensive by discussing CDing, or his hypothetical future grandchildren (just to reiterate what others have said above).

Kimdl and Paula: I've long suspected that CD (not CD itself, but the struggle of hiding it, isolating, etc.) was contributory to his alcoholism- not unlike my self-medicating. You have a valid point about addressing the alcoholism first. However, if I wait for him to admit he has a problem, I'll die sorely disappointed. :-/

Paula: When I first stopped using, I went to SMART recovery meetings (I soon realized that, when the symptoms started coming back with sobriety, addressing PTSD would be more conducive to my recovery. Root vs. Result and all that). They are similar to AA, but secular (I'm atheist) and not "all-or-nothing" on the sobriety (for example, I went to address pharmaceutical issues, but I'm not discouraged from having a beer or smoking joint (can I say that? >_<) every once in a while). Congratulations on your transitioning! From what I know from friends (and forums!), it takes can be an intimidating, even scary, process- it takes a lot of bravery, I think. Everyone I know has been better for the experience though, and now they're content in a way they couldn't be before. Thank you for your offer to PM- I may need to take you up on that sometime! :)

Kimdl and Jess: My boyfriend and I will be getting married soon (we just moved in together after 3 years of dating and 5 years of friendship. He's the only person that I've talked to about my dad, aside from forum-members and my therapist. The marriage topic will have to come up, so I figured I wold address the kid issue same time.. I'll take your advice to heart though and consider carefully before I do.

Jess: It's all a part of my recovery. Part of treating PTSD is repeated exposure to triggers for panic attacks/flashbacks/dreams, and facing the issues head-on (some victims even go back to the scene of the trauma during their recovery process). Part of facing the issues is validating their existence; part of that validation process requires confronting the issue's antagonists. So addressing the CD isn't necessary (it didn't cause trauma), but the rest is. Another big thing is honesty- with yourself and others. Brutal though honesty might be sometimes, I do think it is, as the proverbial saying goes, "The best policy."

Whisper: It's a good suggestion, but he would never go for it. He's very much the "strong and stoic" type.

Thanks everyone!

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Originally Posted by lzbth

Whisper: It's a good suggestion, but he would never go for it. He's very much the "strong and stoic" type.

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Well, you never know. I mean after all, he wears a dress.

But from one atheist to another, I wish you the very best and hope you find the strength and patience needed to make things right again.

There's probably far more than meets the eye here. Assuming the dad is 'just' a crossdresser who also happens to be an alcoholic is what's on the surface, we have no idea what else is going on underneath. Substance abuse is often related to some other problem in the individual's life. It's not the primary problem. And the concept of confronting those who you feel caused problems in your life comes with a cost; they can now continue to cause problems for you; if you are one who likes drama in your life, that's fine. But sometimes it's best to know what happened, and let it remain in the past. That has to be your decision. And what your relationship with him is in the future, and with your children, doesn't have to be defined right now. You can simply tell him as each event arrives what your decision is, and you do not have to justify why you make those decisions. If at that time he will not accept your decisions, they you might choose to open up that can of worms if necessary.
BTW, Odds are the dad may well have been abused himself. And, there's no way to push him into being able to deal with that, especially if he's been using alcohol to drown the painful thoughts away for his entire adult life (and potentially earlier).
I'm not sure I'd confront him; especially not about everything all at once. It could push him over the edge of self destruction. Forcing him to face that others know he's a crossdresser could be a push that could result in disastrous reactions. While that might seem a satisfying result after suffering a lifetime of hardship yourself, it certainly won't leave any long term good feelings.
You need to discuss all this with a therapist one on one. Group meetings aren't going to do it; like this forum, you're going to get all kinds of input, some of which won't necessarily be good.
How do I know. My own crossdressing started after being molested, and my substance of choice to abuse, like most young children, was food, because there was nothing else. Many older kids who were abused switch to drugs or alcohol. Estimates are that one in six boys are subject to some type of sexual abuse as children. ONE IN SIX. How many bury that memory and simply do something else in response to the uncomfortable feelings that those buried memories cause.
There's something else going on with that dad. Unless you're willing to open up the hornets nest and deal with all the problems that making him face everything in his past could bring out, sometimes it's better to just distance yourself from that person and deal with your life on your own; as the alternative could be dealing with an even more self destructive, now unstable person in your life on a daily basis.

I agree with everyone else. think you should initially keep your knowledge of the crossdressing out of the conversation. If this is still secret, then he still feels shame and he will attribute everything else you tell him to the fact that (he thinks) you do not approve of the crossdressing ... even if you assure him otherwise. In other words, he will not hear what you need to tell him.

Do tell him that you were affected by his negligence (alcohol induced and otherwise) and his refusal to believe that his friend had caused you trauma and that he valued his friend more than you by inviting him to his wedding. Do tell him that you are learning to heal from this and also that because you don't trust that he has changed, you do not plan on allowing unsupervised grandpa visits at this time.

Should your talk with your father be cathartic on both sides and lead to his behavioral changes in the future, and he demonstrates to you that he does feel regret and that he has changed, if your relationship improves to the point where there is trust again, then by all means tell him that you know about the crossdressing, that you accept it, and that he does not need to hide in front of you. But until then I don't see there is much point.

I can relate some, but as MtF part time CD. My dad is 93, still has huge unresolved issues! He was beaten by a priest as a boy, and has not gotten over that , even yet. Got drafted during WW2, but was an only son, and lawfully did not have to go, but didn't know it, nmiether did his parents!!!! He is still bitter about that too, and after the war, was desperate loner, and begged my insecure mother to marry him. She felt sorry for him, so married him!! He had to work long days in factories, and took to drinking, drunk on weekends. Sorry he had to have 4 kids and work long days. After my om died two yrs ago, he complained why my mother's clothes got thrown away or given to charity. I suspect he has a secret CDing thing for years too. Nothing was ever resolved. When i have confronted, he gets angry with me, and blames his having to "raise" us kids. My mom did the raising, not him. I now realize i must let him go, and not confront. It is useless. I am very , very damaged by him, my mom, and brothers, and others who picked at me in schools, and on jobs. I got to 12 step meetings like Alanon, ACA, and Codependents Anon, when there is one not too far off. Like Dt. Laura, who i don't always agree with, says, "Some people should have parakeets, not children." You may need to let him go. In the next world, all wil be resolved, and not much is in this cruel world.

lzbth, We all have our own dark dides to overcome, too. I cannot preach, ot advise much, because i have my own stuff, to deal with, and cannot be too harsh or judgmental, with others. I sure would not want to have kids, or father a child into today's world, and with all my baggage. Count the cost before ever deciding to have offspring.

I'll definitely take everyone's counsel into consideration before making any big moves... This forum has been a huge help for me to "see the other side of the coin," so to speak. I'm glad I asked before storming the issue like a bull in a china shop!

I think the confrontation will be good for me, though. A big issue has been, when my dad comes to town, he stays with his friend. I haven't said a word about it since I was 16 (10 years ago); now that I'm an adult, I think it's important that I find my voice and assert to myself and my dad that 1) it's wrong, and 2) I won't stand for it anymore. While the confrontation might not change anything (my mantra: it is what it is), and might unleash the "hornet's nest," as Miss put it, I think it will at least bring me the closure of knowing I finally stood up for myself. However, I very much agree that leaving the CD discussion for another (or never) time is for the best- not just for me, but for him too.

Again, thanks for sharing and advising! One of my favorite things about forums like these (as well as support groups) is that the members make a point to relate to each other (often sharing intimate secrets with almost-strangers). There's a sense of solidarity in that, which is important for every human being, but especially those of us who have employed the self-imposed isolation defense mechanism (such as myself). Forums/groups also provide a diversity in perspectives that you can't get from talking with just one person- I value every perspective shared with me. :) You all have been an invaluable help!

No matter what the situation, discussing intimate and private sexual details with someone who is estranged to you is just not practical.

I would not do it.

As a therapist my brain was exploding like popcorn with all of the issues at stake here.

This forum is really for issues related to cross dressing. The serious issues you are dealing with would be more appropriately addressed by seeking counsel from an experienced professional.

I wish you the best of luck in your healing and the healing of your family.

Save the CD conversation for a sunny day when there is less emotional distress.