Crossdressing vs. Furry

Something to read for y’all…

I rarely watch TV these days, but now and then I take a look to see how the “vast wasteland” is doing. Recently I came upon an alleged news item about a furry convention (in Las Vegas, I believe) on CBS news. Granted I saw this late at night, but I was surprised to see it at all. Here were members of furry fandom gathering for the sake of gathering (I guess), doing their anthropomorphic best, with a spokesperson trying to explain the phenomena. I kept thinking about the similarity with MtF crossdressing, in its most innocuous form, and wondering if CBS news would “report” on a growing trend towards cross-gender role playing…

Whether or not there is such a trend is a moot point, but I think the presence of furries reinforces the idea that these types of things are somewhat inevitable, meaning they should be expected. If tolerance exists for furries, what about the males who like to dress as females? Personally, I don’t know whether I would like to convene with my panty-fetishist brethren (my apologies), since I am a confirmed loner in the CD world, but surely SOME MtF crossdressing can be accepted with a sigh or two by “normal” people…

I read where Vanity Fair, in an article about furries, described some hotel guests as "stunned", with some calling convention-goers "freaks", "blatant homosexuals", and various derogatory terms. Others LIKED it, of course. How come this sort of thing gets press, while the MtF CD gets short shrift? In many ways, the two types of transformation are similar, although one is transgender and the other is transmammalian, or a cartoon approximation of a mammal. Does someone ever ask the furry if he (or she) wants to become this furry persona permanently, i.e. transition? Alas, perhaps a furry lifestyle is all one can hope for…

Meanwhile, the MtF crossdresser wants to enjoy his crossdressing and become female for a time, at least in appearance. For some of us, it’s just FUN, and there are a lot of us who do it. I’m sure that a “convention” of trannies wouldn’t be suitable TV viewing, especially at this time and in this place (the U.S., I mean). Much like cartoon crossdressing can impress young minds, seeing adults enjoying their trans-gender excursions would be seen as visual poison for youngsters, and such things are deleted out of hand, a kind of censorship…

Of course, the Gay Pride Parade gets on the news, with all its myriad celebrations of otherness, but the “I don’t want to bother anybody” MtF crossdresser is nowhere to be seen. Whether he’s gay or not is irrelevant, and pride is not an issue. Here, in this all-too brief snippet of existence at the edge of The Milky Way, males would like to enjoy life, if only for a brief moment, and dress as they please. No big deal, but instincts, prejudice, and fear of the unknown work against us…

It’s nice to see that SOME groups are getting attention, as people melt into their furry disguises, but it may be the novelty of the latter that works in their favor. I hear that the furries emerged sometime around 1980, but didn’t the Beatles “do it,” on the cover of the Magical Mystery Tour album, back in 1968? In any event, furries are relatively new. However, MtF crossdressing has been around a LOT longer, and it will remain, stubbornly in place, in the hearts and minds of intrepid individualists everywhere…

Are furries queer? Just asking… :idontknow:

BTW, if you happen to see Wile E. Coyote, tell him Freddy says “hi.” We go WAY back… :wave:

Before responding I had to go over to YouTube and check out Furry Conventions. Yep, human dressed up as animals displaying human characteristics. I see Furries as people having fun. Of course, any viewer from the outside will see they are just having fun. Furries are no different than those who attend Star Wars or Star Trek conventions. There are gatherings of cross dressers. There is an annual gathering in Port Angeles, WA every year; Esprit. I do not know why anyone would chastise humans pretending to be furry creatures of the forest. Cross dressers? Well, here are men pretending or at least attiring themselves as women. Women are not fictional characters. Society likes uniformity. Furries really do not threaten the concept of uniformity. MtF cross dressers seem to threaten uniformity.

I wonder what the viewer will say if a male human attired himself as a female furry? How would the male furries view a male attired as Minnie Mouse, attired in a red and white polka dot dress. Or a male attired as Daisy Duck? Would the man be branded as a "queer duck?"

the world is full of variants. You skipped Cosplay (and all the sub categories like Trekkies, Starwars fans, super heroes, warriors, damsels, knights...) infantilizm, geeks, comic book collectors, NASCAR fans, NFL groupies, Goths, Vampyres, S&M. Shall I go on?

At best you can maybe put transvestic fetishists in the above categories. This is really a round about way to try and make a point and it really doesn't, in my opinion, help TGs with acceptance

In case anyone was wondering how to tell a male furry from a female one, all you do is pull down their(furry) jeans. :heehee: Actually I have some Furry friends and they are pretty cool from everything I see. In fact I have many Otherkin friends. :battingeyelashes::)

Interesting observations, Frédérique. I suspect that, like the CD community, the furries community has a broad spectrum of reasons why they do it. I do know that some feel that the animal they dress as is truly how they feel inside, for other though it might be just a bit of escapism.

Personally, I think that folks tend to be be more tolerant of furries in that they are a relatively new phenomenon(?) and not a threat to their own sexuality. Even if they don't get it, they can let it go for the most part. Of course there's always some folks who will immediately start in with name calling - I would guess out of fear of what they don't understand?

However, when these same folks see a crossdresser many do not know what to make of it. They have that instant reaction to seeing a man in women's clothing and all of their own cultaral baggage and beliefs that might come with it.

Interesting thoughts. I think of furries as an escapist form of play. Some CDs might see it that way, but I think for many of us, it's a lot more ingrained into who we are. Especially those who identify as anywhere on the spectrum of TG (which I would include myself on the shallow end of that pool). I also think the media covering a CDing convention would be a major put off for many attendees concerned about their identity/security if they were outed. Just my 2 cents.

Similarities between cross-dressers and furries obviously diminish the validity of various claims that some transgender people make, but I can't help but noting them as well. For one thing, some cross-dressers look like cartoon versions of the thing they try to portray as well :D

So the point is... :) If I interpret this correctly, the media are showing a bias towards presenting Furries positively that they don't or wouldn't do for the crossdressing community... and they should show more of us...? (if I've got that wrong, happy to be corrected with a summary of your point..)

Isn't being Furrie a bit of fun? Also related to emulating fictional comic or cartoon characters in the way that Trekkies and other fan conventions allow fans to emulate pretty much anything... I don't believe Furries do it because they feel driven to do it - which is what I would say differentiates them from us (but not exclusively) - let me expand...

We're a bit of an eclectic bunch as others have expressed before me - 'crossdressing' covers a broad range of activities from the fun or fetishistic end of things, right through to folk that are pre-transition (although it has been argued they're not really crossdressing as they are presenting as their real gender - which I'd agree with) and those with varying degrees of TG. We could argue the toss over categories of CDers (and probably will at some point ;)), and therein lies the significant problem for the media... There are conventions for CDers, but to cover them would require someone to explain just what a varied group of folk we are and why we're that way... and I think that's just too hard at present.

Couple that issue with the high proportion of CD websites related to hook-ups for 'dating' and related activities, and you also throw a bit of a sexual spanner in the works as well... And again that's a tricky one as many here are clearly in some state of uncertainty about their sexuality (that's just an observation - not a judgement). Wiki indicates that the Furries also have a sexual 'leaning', with potentially as high as 50% being bi- and 25% gay... but those are sexual preferences that are accepted by the mainstream... we still struggle with the stigma of being men in women's clothes and the belief that there is always something sexual related to our dressing, when clearly, that is not true for everyone, although it may be a majority...

A guy in a dress is a little creepy to most muggles, whereas a guy in a furry suit - well, don't you get those at Disneyland...?

Katey x

Furry convention. Had to look it up as well. Who sponsored it? ALPO? :D

Ineke

I starting to think that a lot of us need to become open minded, wow it really sounds stupid to say that on this forum but it's true.

My BFF is a furry and I was probably his biggest supporter by listening and talking a lot. So I know a thing or two about furries.

Some here assume that furries don't have anything in common with us, but that just ain't right. There are furries that feel that they are a animal trapped in a human body, they will even for example eat dog food. This ain't very different from mtf or ftm tg who truly feel that they are born in the wrong body.
There also are furries that do it because they want to escape their normal life or for show. In my opinion drag queens are close or identical to this.
And of course there are the ones that do it just for fun, just like some cd'ers.
And there are many more reasons to become a furry.

And no one should ever assume that a furry that looks female is also a GG on the inside but they could feel femme just like us.

And last but not least I do not agree that furries are like cosplayers. Dressing up like micky mouse is cosplay and not furries. A furry dresses like a animal not a cartoon. But is is true that the Japanese/Chinees style does get a bit of a Manga (cartoon) look.

@Kate, that's a bad joke.

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You skipped Cosplay (and all the sub categories like Trekkies, Starwars fans, super heroes, warriors, damsels, knights...) infantilizm, geeks, comic book collectors, NASCAR fans, NFL groupies, Goths, Vampyres, S&M. Shall I go on?

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I like skipping... :battingeyelashes:

I assume that Star Wars inspired furry fandom, in fact it IS a sci-fi phenomena. If I wanted to touch upon cosplay, the title of the thread OP would be different, wouldn’t it?

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Originally Posted by Linda_K

And last but not least I do not agree that furries are like cosplayers. Dressing up like Micky Mouse is cosplay and not furries. A furry dresses like a animal not a cartoon. But is is true that the Japanese/Chinese style does get a bit of a Manga (cartoon) look.

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I may be guilty of cosplay, but can it be considered cospaly if nobody knows who I’m trying to emulate? I mean, SHE exists, a streamlined collection of various sightings, cobbled together and refined until it can’t be pinned down. Why simply cosplay when you can make up your own fictional character and “walk into” the role? Sounds good (and creative) to me…
:straightface:

After reading your post I watched a furry video. I had NO idea this even existed.

Thuffering Thuccotash!. Now I want to go as Sylvester, the cat.

And here I thought a catsuit was something made out of latex.:eek:

Ineke

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Originally Posted by Ineke Vashon

After reading your post I watched a furry video. I had NO idea this even existed!

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Yep. This is pretty much how I felt when I found out my H was a crossdresser. I knew about transexuals, but I'd seriously never heard of heterosexual men dressing in women's clothing.

Head spin! :)

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Originally Posted by Allison Chaynes

Interesting thoughts. I think of furries as an escapist form of play. Some CDs might see it that way, but I think for many of us, it's a lot more ingrained into who we are. Especially those who identify as anywhere on the spectrum of TG (which I would include myself on the shallow end of that pool). I also think the media covering a CDing convention would be a major put off for many attendees concerned about their identity/security if they were outed. Just my 2 cents.

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Great value from your 2 cents Allison (BTW clever name, I like it very much)

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Originally Posted by Zylia

Similarities between cross-dressers and furries obviously diminish the validity of various claims that some transgender people make, but I can't help but noting them as well. For one thing, some cross-dressers look like cartoon versions of the thing they try to portray as well :D

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I think this is a bit of a stretch...a rather long one. I know it was meant in jest. I will admit that my awareness of furries is limited to one episode of CSI from maybe eight years ago. But I take it that these folks dress up like critters of one sort or another and party. I believe that in their normal daily lives the are not dressed nor do they aspire to live their lives as rabbits, raccoons or plush toys.

I cannot speak for all TG people, but I certainly am seeking more than a cartoonish representation of myself as a woman and I seek to express in in everyday life, not just at parties or conventions.

To my take on the OP. I'm conflicted. I see value in Pride parades and other types of exposure that remind the world that we are here, although I think there is a negative aspect in the more sexualized behaviors in such parades that usually attract media attention. I see value in getting out on an everyday basis and interacting in a constructive manner with people. Furries seem to me more like model train enthusiasts...maybe they make for good video...and a little titillation for the news viewer, and after all, isn't that what News is about?

Having never attended SCC or other TG events, I wonder if they get some media attention. Someone here must have that answer.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

Having never attended SCC or other TG events, I wonder if they get some media attention. Someone here must have that answer.

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Curiously little in the mainstream media, despite a Sundance Best Documentary for 2001 for Southern Comfort and a play last year. There is, of course, lots of attention in the LGBT media. I really think the mainstream media finds cross dressing, especially by heterosexual males, just too difficult a subject to cover. Transexuals get far more media coverage than cross dressers. But someday perhaps the mainstream will figure out that the largest segment of the transgender community are, in fact, male and female cross dressers.

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Originally Posted by Frédérique

I may be guilty of cosplay, but can it be considered cospaly if nobody knows who I’m trying to emulate? I mean, SHE exists, a streamlined collection of various sightings, cobbled together and refined until it can’t be pinned down. Why simply cosplay when you can make up your own fictional character and “walk into” the role? Sounds good (and creative) to me…
:straightface:

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Yes it would still be considered cosplay if you ask me. For example here in the Netherlands there is an event two times a year called the fantasy fair. This is an cosplay event were anything that is fantasy goes and there will be a tinkerbel but also lots of non specific character ferries.

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Originally Posted by Frédérique

Does someone ever ask the furry if he (or she) wants to become this furry persona permanently, i.e. transition?

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There are people who have undergone facial surgery to look more like lions or cats. Although they are rare, I should think for them it is a question of personal identity.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/a...ckered-1738232
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ke-feline.html
http://starcasm.net/archives/15419

And we mustn't dismiss the fetish aspect as well. If you google "plushies" or "furries", you'll see a lot of reference to fetish. But as someone else mentioned, I'm sure there is just as wide a motive range for dressing like a furrie as there is for engaging in feminization.

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Originally Posted by Frédérique

I assume that Star Wars inspired furry fandom, in fact it IS a sci-fi phenomena. If I wanted to touch upon cosplay, the title of the thread OP would be different, wouldn’t it?

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so this is a cherry picking straw argument?

Probably not, like us, just another form of self expression.

Some expressive forms are more weird than others and acceptance varies as well.

One difference I see is that there are very few furries that want to present that way in the mainstream. They do so for each other and at events, but few go out to dinner or shopping dressed as a furry.

Another difference is that CDers are attempting to occupy another existing societal niche whereas furries, cosplayers, etc. are occupying niches of their own making.

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Originally Posted by colleen_cd

Personally, I think that folks tend to be be more tolerant of furries in that they are a relatively new phenomenon(?) and not a threat to their own sexuality. Even if they don't get it, they can let it go for the most part. Of course there's always some folks who will immediately start in with name calling - I would guess out of fear of what they don't understand?

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I think this is a good point. As soon as someone brings into question sexuality, it seems to illicit a hateful response. "Hmm, that woman's butt looks gooooooood. WAIT! Is that a woman? I can't tell. She may actually be a man. INSTANT HATE!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY2NTbui6kY

Not with furries. But, with fetish dressers. Which may or may not be similar? I recently returned from my second Rubber Dolls convention. While I really have no interest in rubber, Sherry prefers to dress erotically and in costumes. All the Dolls there wore masks, too. I went to find out what these folks r really like. Since their fetish outfits all have female themes, R they CD's? R some trans? What is their sexual orientation? R they weirdo perverts? Etc., etc. Here's what I found out:

Generally, they aren't trans. They seem to be crossdressers to a more or less degree. And, most r straight. Judging by the attention I received, maybe a couple r bi? They were or r all married. Few, if any of them, dress in regular women's things. And, very few go out dressed. All their fetish gear appears to be fem in nature. There were wives there. They also dressed in women's fetish gear. Possibly similar to furrie conventions? But, I really am just guessing. They all seemed to be nice, accepting, regular, and friendly folks. They just have an unusual hobby.:devil:

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

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Having never attended SCC or other TG events, I wonder if they get some media attention. Someone here must have that answer.

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I have attended a number of T conventions and gatherings, Kim. Including 4 SCC's. The media is the media! On the last nite at the SCC there is always a big dinner closing meeting in the ballroom. Many stay and dance there until all hours. With everyone dressed in their very best gowns. However, a few of us decided to head into town to a big fetish club party. I changed out of my gown and was waiting in the lobby for the others when a local TV crew showed up to film and interview girls at the SCC event. So, who did they pick out first to interview on camera with all the glamorous and fabulous girls there? Sherry. Because of her skimpy fetish club look!:doh:

The Dolls photo is from their web site. I'm the ONE not wearing rubber!

Tara is the girl with me at the SCC. She's a cd.com member and this pic from 2011 has been posted here before.:)