Is crossdressing making you bitter and anti-social?

O.K., so I'm in one of my "grumpy old man...errr...crossdresser" moods right now, but it got me to thinking...

Many of us here are in hiding a.k.a. "the closet" - either from our spouses, our SO's, family, workplaces - maybe even the world at large. We have been conditioned by society to believe that crossdressing is shameful, anti-social, "unmanly", a destroyer of marriages and families, totally weird and unfathomable to most people, and at worst, is perverted and the next best thing to being a child molester. The "women's bathroom sanctity" fear mongers certainly believe so, as do the Christian fundamentalists, who are happy to point to numerous Old Testament Bible passages declaring crossdressing to be an abomination to bolster their cases and justify their bigotry.

So tell me, do you sometimes feel like Peter Finch in the movie "Network", and find it hard not to open up the window, stick your head outside, and shout at the top of your lungs "I'm mad as H*ll, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"?

Do you start to balk at fulfilling social obligations (e.g. visiting with the in-laws) that you have zero interest in participating in, only because "you have to", or "it's expected" - and mainly to keep the peace with your spouse or SO? And this is likely the same spouse or SO who forces you into a DADT relationship with her to maintain marital harmony, but on her terms? Terms that are coming from an asymmetrical power imbalance within the relationship, because she is using guilt and shame to manipulate you into getting her way?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I get very fed up sometimes by this seemingly one way street, where we are expected to acknowledge and cater to others' wants and needs, while ours - especially when it comes to our crossdressing - are stomped on and ignored, and we are essentially told to "suck it up" because these unique needs of ours simply don't rank on the "acceptability" scale.

The funny thing is, as I find myself becoming increasingly comfortable going out in public en femme (and enjoying every moment of it!), this happy feeling is becoming inversely proportional to the resentment I am starting to feel over restrictions to being fully able to express this side of me within the confines (yes, I used that word deliberately) my marriage. And yet, at the same time I am expected to nod and smile while I accede to - and put up with - everyone else's idiosyncrasies, foibles, and neediness. In other words, starting to become bitter and anti-social...

Seems to me that it's our choice on whether to cater to other people's ideas and expectations of who we should be or being ourselves. Just be prepared for any potential consequences for our actions. Personally, I refuse to be manipulated like that and damn the torpedoes. :)

At one time in my life, my approving SO (after doing some research on the issue) suggested that she was willing to tell the kids in hopes that they would support me, and I would then be more comfortable in 'family' gatherings.. Two girls and two boys in their late teens!! I truthfully balked at the idea, but as time goes on I wish I had taken the opportunity.. I think they would have been fine with it, as one of the boys eventually found out.. and one of the girls walked in on me when I was working in the kitchen - Would have saved a lot of explaining at the moment!
I am at the point in my life that I wish everyone knew that I am truly a crossdresser, and would feel much more comfortable being accepted wearing shorts or a skirt.. Naturally, I would be totally en femme when 'skirting', but who cares.. Doesn't make me less of a man!!

Your feelings are understandable, Leslie. CDs are one of the most invisible, misunderstood, and underrepresented groups under the transgender umbrella. This despite the fact that there are likely MILLIONS of you in America.

It's a tough situation, whether you are in the closet or not. Because you can change your expression from male to female, all too often people expect you to do it for their comfort.

To top it off, you aren't even always supported within the TG community. I've heard expressions of scorn and derision from other transsexuals. (This makes me ashamed, btw.) Drag queens are often shocked that there are heterosexual crossdressers. Who advocates for you? Nobody really seriously.

So I don't blame you for being angry. You should be.

The only solution I can suggest is for more of you to come out publicly, join the larger TG community, and demand your rights. There will be a cost for those who do this, but I think there are too many of you to be ignored.

Well I sort of agree. There are a lot of psychological stresses we feel thanks to limitations on how we dress. There's a few things that concern me though.

1. It sounds like your wife isn't trying to share this with you at all, and you wish she should.
2. Your wish to remove limits sounds like you need to do some soul-searching if you fall more on the CD or TG end of the spectrum.
3. No matter how frustrated you get, respect that your wife is an individual and has the right to ask you to meet some of her social expectations, just as she has to meet some of your expectations (even if its just that you spend money on women's clothes).

I wish you luck on the rest of your adventure through this thing we call life.

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Originally Posted by Leslie Langford

O.K., shout at the top of your lungs "I'm mad as H*ll, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"?

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How about a slightly different spelling: "I'm mad as H*ll, and I'm not going to fake it anymore!"

Unfortunately, we are living in an increasingly crowded world, and everyone seems to have a personal opinion on how things ought to be.

Ineke

I could go into a lengthy reply, but the simple answer is that life isn't fair.

No, I have never been bitter or anti social.

Something else I have no time for.

I never actually cared very much what anyone who didn't like me or love me thought. I am, at this age and after surviving a terminal diagnosis, even less interested in caring for anyone who doesn't care for me, which, unfortunately includes a number of my relatives. My wife is perhaps even less interested than I am in social proprieties. I am a firm believer in the importance of having a logical family, not a biological family, and by family I mean the group of friends and relatives who actually have some consideration for me and to whom I respond in kind and with kindness. I simply do not understand why so many people subject themselves to hostility and meanness from other people because of blood ties, social bonds, or whatever.

So, no, I don't feel that I have to yell I am mad as hell, etc. I am not. I am just me, take me or leave me, honey, but treat me nice and I will do the same to you! Otherwise, go bother someone else. They seem to like it. I don't.

Leslie, I'm sad to hear that things are so much the same in Canada and sorry that you are hurting. There are no easy answers, but recent experience has taught me that life is too short to linger in limbo, dissatisfied and unhappy.

I'm a bit of an evolution/sociology nerd, and shame is a super powerful emotion, perhaps the most powerful. It's all wrapped up in our fears of not being accepted by the pack we need to survive and not being allowed to breed and pass on our genetic self. I hear a lot of shame and fear in the way your wife treats you. It's easy to understand and hard to transform.

The fact is that cross dressing doesn't hurt anyone. The straight guys here all seem to have bred fine and passed on their genes. We live productive lives as valued members of our community. Our shame, and that of our spouses, is a thorny fossil from before we even existed as our current species.

One of the best concepts to appear in human culture is the notion of romantic love. Along with human liberty and self-actualization, we have a vision of people as individuals deserving of freedom, protection and love. In marriage, we underline this idea...for better or for worse, for richer or poorer... that we will stick together and support eachother. Not knowing everything about our partner when we make our vows is no excuse for abandoning or judging them wanting. People change and grow, and hopefully grow together. I know it doesn't always work.

You're right to feel angry about your situation. It does seem like you and your wife (including you both to avoid placing blame) need to cherish each other more than the pointless shame and fear. She should try to love who you are. I know it's tough, but you should search for a good counselor who can see both sides and help you learn to communicate and love each other the way you wish you could.

*heart*

Bryan

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Originally Posted by Leslie Langford

Do you start to balk at fulfilling social obligations (e.g. visiting with the in-laws) that you have zero interest in participating in, only because "you have to", or "it's expected" - and mainly to keep the peace with your spouse or SO? And this is likely the same spouse or SO who forces you into a DADT relationship with her to maintain marital harmony, but on her terms? Terms that are coming from an asymmetrical power imbalance within the relationship, because she is using guilt and shame to manipulate you into getting her way?

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First of all nobody can EVER FORCE you into ANYTHING! Did your wife know about your cross dressing from the beginning? No? Well shut the hell up then. My GOD what do you really expect?? You either want to continue the marriage with your current wife or you don't. You have the choice. I would like to hold two of our own up for an example. Di and Sher were totally up front and honest about each other and you don't see either of them boo hooing about each other's expectations. Try honesty and why don't you start with yourself. Your behavior and attitude will kill the relationship you have with your wife then you can write another boo hoo post about how she is a bigot and forces you into things that you have no control over, like a divorce, and there you have your "get out of jail free" card. Good luck with your pitty party but you get no sympathy from me. Obviously you really can't wear your wife's shoes.:Angry3:

There is in life a goodly amount of hoop-jumping. Unless you want to live a completely solitary existence, there are social obligations to be met. Yes, they take time. Yes, they are often less than a thrill a minute. I would urge you to keep things in perspective. Unless these social interactions are intended to belittle you, go with the flow. They may not be your cup of tea, but your willingness to meet these obligations may be important to others. Make the best of it you can.

I would not say "bitter and anti-social" just a little sadder at times when I want to go out as Richelle and can not due to family or business reasons. Like when I have to remove my nail polish this weekend because I will be in meetings with the companies EVP.

Richelle

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

First of all nobody can EVER FORCE you into ANYTHING! Did your wife know about your cross dressing from the beginning? No? Well shut the hell up then. My GOD what do you really expect?? You either want to continue the marriage with your current wife or you don't. You have the choice. I would like to hold two of our own up for an example. Di and Sher were totally up front and honest about each other and you don't see either of them boo hooing about each other's expectations. Try honesty and why don't you start with yourself. Your behavior and attitude will kill the relationship you have with your wife then you can write another boo hoo post about how she is a bigot and forces you into things that you have no control over, like a divorce, and there you have your "get out of jail free" card. Good luck with your pitty party but you get no sympathy from me. Obviously you really can't wear your wife's shoes.:Angry3:

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Are you kidding me???? This is probably the most ridiculous and uncaring response that I've ever seen on this board, on any thread. Who do you think you are coming out with a statement like, "No? Well shut the hell up then", "write another boo hoo post" and "pity party." You have no idea of their circumstances. There was a time when very little information was out there about this lifestyle and many of us thought it would disappear with marriage and time. There was a time when they threw you in a rubber room and gave you electroshock therapy. Today there are still many social limitations but the world is much more liberal than years ago. You need to get a life and, while you are at it, put a little compassion in it! If the moderators want to remove my response that's fine. It doesn't change your lack of compassion! If anyone on this forum sounds bitter, it's you! Btw, I'm not going to argue this point with you because I'm not going to waste my time or the moderator's time trading insults with the likes of you. You've stated you position and I have stated mine!

My input as a GG is that regardless of the cross dressing, any relationship is give and take. You have to communicate and compromise. Once one person is no longer willing to compromise, the relationship is over. If there was dishonesty from the beginning, it's very difficult to continue a marriage when a life changing issue such as cross dressing/TS is brought to the table after years of the SO not knowing. Both people are not going to get what they want 100% of the time in a marriage, you have to compromise on certain things. Your wife is compromising by sort of accepting you cross dress (not telling you flat out you can't do it, like I have read some wives do), but just not wanting to actively participate in it or wants the family involved - she just wants to be something for only you. And trust me, I totally get the "keep the family harmony" crap because I'm in an intercultural marriage. I know it's not just a "hobby" for many CDers, but a way of life. But there are things my husband does besides CDing that I don't participate in nor do I want to. If you really wanted a spouse that would accept and participate in this way of life with you, then you have to be honest from the very beginning. You may get rejected, but that just means you're not wasting your life with someone who will not meet what you need in a relationship. So then you keep looking or decide to remain single. But I know, when love is involved, it's never that simple! My current situation is everything BUT simple. But really, this is why my spouse and I discussed the core important things in the very beginning of our relationship, it was "let's not waste our time if it won't work out anyway". It's one of those things I've never understood in the dating world when one person flips out because the other is asking if they want kids some day or even want marriage, etc. I hear about so many people hearing such questions and running away because they think the other person is rushing or just plain crazy. But really, for me, it's always been, why do I want to waste months/years of dating someone I won't be compatible with in the end?

But maybe I'm just clueless and don't understand all of this too well yet. I'm trying to, I'm trying to communicate with my husband, but a lot of times it's like pulling teeth with him or he doesn't even know how to explain things himself.

*note: although many believe this is a support forum, being all unicorns and rainbows to people's posts isn't a requirement. So if you don't like what someone said, don't read it. As one of the posts said earlier, "life isn't fair". As long as the person posting isn't insulting, you can disagree and state you opinion,. Thank you

Now to the point, it wasn't my SO's who made me not want to go places. I have been "single" now for almost 3 years? And I don't want to go places (I don't now at all since I am transitioning) where I have to pretend to be someone else. So I get what the OP says. Kitty makes a point about spouses, yes they are an exception, you signed on for the duration and you really NEED to keep them happy, but in my case it is a parent. I really didn't want to visit this parent because they didn't accept me. I was adamant...until I HAD to go back. But I didn't change for them, I did give them the option to see me. But in my stage of life I have to wake up next to one person everyday...me. If your spouse knows, then you really need to buck up for a few days or whatever and play the game. This applies to anything that makes you feel uncomfortable but won't kill you. If your wife doesn't know, Kitty has a point, but you still need to buck up and play the game or walk out. In my case one person actually said "Couldn't you just be a guy for 3 days?" As a CD this may be the best option, just be a guy for a few days.

Hmmm, kitty...seeing yours and Brianna's posts back to back here makes it pretty clear which one of the two of you embodies the more traditionally "feminine" qualities of kindness, empathy, compassion, caring, and being non-judgemental. Thanks for the heaping dose of "tough love", but I actually get plenty of that at home already, thank you very much. And as you can see, it's working - NOT!

But thank you also for illustrating perfectly my very point, which is just how much scorn we crossdressers sometimes have to face from the GG's in our relationships when we don't meet their expectations on the "man-o-meter", and they then feel terribly wronged and hard done by when it emerges that we are crossdressers.

Then again, it seems to me that there are far worse things that a husband or boyfriend can be besides a crossdresser - drug addict, wife abuser, chronic alcoholic, compulsive liar, sexist, racist, homophobe, womanizer, fraud artist, or driven workaholic, just to name a few.

It is amazing how many women marry these types of men despite such serious character flaws and in some cases, even loyally stick by them once they are exposed for what they really are (Bill Clinton, anyone?). I guess that's because some of these vices are more "socially acceptable" than crossdressing - not because they are somehow morally or ethically superior, but simply because they are more common and more people can relate to them. Funny, too, how some women can even become pen pals with convicted killers and eventually marry them despite their being in prison (sometimes for life), but when it comes to crossdressers...ewww!

Must be the need that some females have to latch onto a "bad boy" in the expectation that they can turn them around and help save them from themselves. And maybe the fact that we crossdressers are generally immune to that type of "reparative therapy" is at the root of why we sometimes frustrate them so.

Leslie,

For the first time on the site I am responding without reading the other answers you have already received, and I apologize. At age 45 (some time ago) it occurred to me that I had been living my life based on what I thought others expected of me. I am now in the process of living my life as myself. Dee is a large and growing part of that. I too am frustrated by societal expectations but when do I get to be myself? We need to be comfortable in our skins and the rest of the world just needs to catch up. And don't even get me started on fundamentalist anyone. My faith accepts me as I am and it doesn't matter to me if someone else's doesn't.

Sorry for the rant, but you hit a nerve and I think it was the last one I had left today.

Hugs and best wishes,
Dee :fairy1:

Ashley Lin, Unfortunately, many, many people do believe that crossdressing, in women's clothing DOES make a man LESS of a man, or not a man at all!

No, not bitter, that's not me at all. I'm happiest and very comfortable experiencing life as a woman, or at least as close as I can be to womanhood, and yes I feel a bit confined by my wife's fears and apprehensions. But I really believe we are working our way through the obstacles and in the end, I'm hopeful that our life together will comfortably accommodate my needs and my identity. So, I do the expected male role stuff, I try to be accommodating and I do so without feeling bitter.

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Originally Posted by Alice Torn

Ashley Lin, Unfortunately, many, many people do believe that crossdressing, in women's clothing DOES make a man LESS of a man, or not a man at all!

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And that is a bad thing?

Dee :fairy1:

To the contrary, I'm much less bitter and anti-social now that I'm expressing myself as I wish! We have more CD-world friends than I have boy-world friends.

And to those men who think that wearing women's clothing makes me less of a man, let's see them find the courage to walk the length of the Galleria wearing a pretty dress! And enjoy it!

To the women who think that wearing women's clothing makes me less of a man, the only opinion that counts is Mimi's.

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Originally Posted by Leslie Langford

Is crossdressing making you bitter and anti-social?

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Judging by the cynicism running through this site, sometimes served up in heaping helpings by ALL, I would answer YES. Double-ditto for anybody who believes they’re transgendered…

I think the one point missing on this thread is the fact that men are NOT superior to women. That some of us men prefer to express ourselves as women is not demeaning to ourselves, but as I see it, advancing ourselves to the superior, or at least to the equivalent sex. This is not in agreement with general thought, but I haven't been in concurrence with general belief as long as I can remember. I was a women's libber in the 50s. So let the haters hate, as they will, but believe in yourself, as you are the only one who really matters in the whole realm of your life.

Dee :fairy1:

If thats the way you feel then you should change it . I've been there and done that one and change it so I didn't feel like that . No time in life for a pity party it's up to you how you live.