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Society should acceptance us (CDers) right now and find our choice of wearing female clothing and enhancers no different than women wearing the same thing. It's an individuals choice and nobody should criticize another for what they want to wear. Any one disagree????
My one and only rule for someone to become my friend is that they always be themself. That is the person I relate to and can appreciate.
Agree 100 percent. The problem is it will take time. Look how long it took women to get the vote and how much longer to start to get equal pay. Black rights, gay rights; these were and are far more vocal in pressing to have equality and acceptance across all in society even willing to undertake civil disobedience to bring their plight into the public and political eye.
If there is a public campaigning face to the CD community then I'm not aware of it. At present we're lumped in the public's mind with the gay community so just how our cause is better understood at present seems to be a side show.
Look around you, everyday I see another post on a Trans subject, more and more are showing up on TV, in the movies and on the fashion runways. It's getting better, but it takes a long time for people to rid themselves of there old hang up, Where I live at each of the last 4 gay pride parades, which here seem as much a Trans pride parade as it is a gay pride thing, many of the local churches are there inviting us all to join them in their services.
No one is offering shock therapy to cure us anymore, we are not considered mentally ill anymore, We don't get arrested just for wearing a dress anymore, so just hang in there in time we will make it into mainstream society!
From where I started back in the 50's we come along way baby!
I do agree with, wish it true every day, and I hope for the future.
Hi,
Dont blame society have you talked with people face to face about being accepted , and show them what ever it is you like doing , are you a member of any groups have you put on a show or did the cat walk . been in public .
Its allright hiding behind a computer , and say what ever its very different being seen every day being known and talking with people and living it you know real world life ,
Of cause the difference there is women are not trying be other than who they are , well most any way yet you expect others to accept men dressing as women and hiding who they are or as i say behind makeup and wig,s so they are not known . or cant be known..big difference i see .
Would you like to be seen in womens clothes with out a wig no makeup on pretty much your face is seen as you are normaly. and not trying to enhance your body to look like a woman .
or how about just going down the road with a dress or skirt and a top on and like many women do any way .
Plus this and your mates see you or those who know you . this is not about just clothes is it , theres more to it,
Society did accept men in dress,s and skirts or similar a few years ago . and wigs makeup and pretty much what women wore with in the body size difference have a look at history
Our group of men dress in skirts and dress,s just they are not trying to be women thats all. and nore were they in Renaissance times .
So to have people accept the fashon of the day you need to look at the whole of what your saying or go to other country s and look at their clothes and men and women wore much the same .
With that ? why should society have to accept men trying to be like women in their clothes,
Have you looked at it from their perspective at all . ??
In the Army is there any difference between mens wear and womens wear....whats your thoughts on that, ??
...noeleena...
Yes, I disagree. Mostly because I live on earth. People here on earth have histories, experiences, and develop likes and dislikes over time. One thing that is true of all people is that we are taught to fear the unknown. It's for self preservation. I would hate living in a society where everything is ok. There have to be edges. I like living on earth. You should come visit sometime.
It just isn't that simple. There are millions and millions of people on Earth who get very angry about all the other people who don't agree with their outlook- we often go and bomb them because we don't agree with their outlook. They think they're right, we think we're right. I bet some of their menfolk wear dresses, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by deebra
And how is a man wearing forms the same as a woman who doesn't need to wear forms?
My way of thinking is that instead of waiting for society to issue a formal acceptance policy for us gender unique individuals, is to just be us. From what I have seen and experienced is that people may look at me, but rarely will they say anything. And on the few occasions that they do comment on what I am wearing or doing, they compliment me. Thus it appears as though society does accept us. Well at least they accept me.Quote:
Originally Posted by deebra
This part I do disagree with. One of my favorite shows was Fashion Police. Ever seen it? Criticizing what someone wears is one thing, attempting to prevent them from being able to wear what they want is another.Quote:
Originally Posted by deebra
Society is made up of individuals that each have their own opinions. Women often say, "did you see what she's wearing"! Sorry, there's no controlling other people :(
I tend to live my life acknowledging not everyone is the same. There are differences between the sexes and within each sex there are significant differences. If everyone was the same, then everything would be rather boring. Sure, it sounds really enticing that I would be able to wear a sport coat, dress shirt, slacks, tie and wing tip shoes one day, and, another day I would be able to wear a bra, panty, slip, dress, thigh high hosiery and four inch strap on pumps along with makeup and a wig.
There's always going to be some bias against cross dressers, as well as any other sub group. Take a look around the world. It's total havoc. Too many people hate and go to war against other humans. In Washington State sexual minorities of all persuasions are protected by law. Yes, I can go through life attired as a woman with the full rights of any other group. The problem is there is not going to be full acceptance by society. I am a recreational cross dresser. There are days such as today when I am fully en femme. Yesterday I was fully en homme. I enjoy both. I venture to say, if I was driven to dress en femme all the time I would relocate to a more accepting environment/locale. San Francisco comes to mind. So does parts of Seattle.
So, until society "accepts" us, as well as gays and lesbians and other transgendered men and women, I have to recognize not everyone will "accept" me as my male or female side. I as the male person I am I am not fully accepted by all peoples at all times. It's life. Unfortunate, by it's reality.
Quote:
Come on people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together try and love one another right now
Both written over 40 years ago. Nothing has changed in that time. It might be better but the same problems still exist and will.Quote:
Imagine all the people living life in peace...
Brave to take a stand and say "acceptance now" and you do have to start somewhere. Just one question before we continue. Do you go out everyday dressed as a woman? Do you stand up for T rights on every level? Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and go to work, church, school wearing women's clothing? Or are you going to rant about it from your closet?
Times are changing and there is more acceptance. Those that do venture out among the "muggles" and do interact with society are changing things one person at a time. I think I present us in a positive light and I'm not afraid to answer any questions and be a confident friendly person no matter how I dress. People fear the unknown, and yes, we are the unknown.
Will there be people who will never accept us, for sure. But in general, I've been treated with common courtesy and no real negative comments (at least to my face).
In a perfect world... maybe.
My dad used to tell me that most of life's conflict stems from a misalignment between behavior and expectation. You have zero control over another persons behavior but complete control over your expectations. To avoid conflict, manage your expectations; simply expect people to be who they are and they will rarely disappoint you.
Just a side note... Things are getting better. The following link is an article about the most recent gender equality index. Happy to say the comp[any I work for scores a perfect score...
www.hrc.org/cei
It is a little difficult to come up with the right phraseology. I think there may be some "acceptance" differences between men wearing women's attire but not trying to present as a woman as compared to men wearing women's attire, makeup, forms, padded hips, and so forth and apparently trying to present as a woman. It is almost the difference in wearing a kilt (architecturally exactly the same as a skirt) and dressing as the exaggerated drag queen. I am well aware there is a vast gulf between the two, but that gulf doesn't look quite so wide as seen from the world of those who do not crossdress.
Should, must and shall are rather difficult terms to require of something as nebulous as "society". I am hesitant to make demands of people. Certainly there are many, many people who hold views that I find primitive, ill informed or downright bigoted. At the same time, I'd rather people arrive at a point of enlightenment on their own, rather than being compelled to agree. If someone wishes to criticize me for choosing to present myself as a woman, well, that remains their right. I won't defend their right, but I acknowledge it.
classic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Societies should do a lot of things they don't. Maybe in a hundred years or so you'll get your wish!
Hi Deebra,
Acceptance "right now" as there is still way too much stigma attached to being TG and too many negative stereotypes. It is only through education and to some degree the "maturing of humans as a species" that differences will be first tolerated and then finally accepted. I would like to think the TG community has achieved a level of tolerance and will eventually move toward acceptance . . . ever the optimist I guess :battingeyelashes:
Jennifer,Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Did I read this right? You disagree that society should accept TG persons and that we should be open to public criticism? Or were you just saying that you enjoy that being TG is not acceptable because it allows you "live on the edge"? :confused:
Hugs
Isha
Isha, I disagree with the proposition that any society "should do." The "edge," unfortunately, has ugly stuff, hatred, bigotry, intolerance, whatever. But the edge also has heroes and unflinching acceptance. Society is a bell curve. I don't like that people are intolerant of of cross dressers, generally, but everyone has free will, we have choice. I like that. We can try to change opinion but the opinion has to be freely made and/or changed. If any society "should" accept cross dressers, where does it end? No, I vote on choice every time. I don't have to like that choice and I have the right to voice my counter argument to that choice but I have to support the right for that someone to make their own choice. A society that accepts everything as ok would be void of passion. Void of debate and would die.
Hi Jennifer,
That is what I thought . . . it just read a bit odd to me. Thanks for clearing up the confusion.
Hugs
Isha