Wanting it so badly !

I was walking the dog this morning and caught sight of a young woman from the village walking across a field with a bucket of water to put in the sheep trough. At that moment I wondered how dissimilar were her feelings to mine ? The same wind was tossing our hair, so that would feel the same, my shaved legs would feel the same as hers as we were both wearing jeans, after a while my bra with forms would possibly have the same sensation. If she had arthritis in the same places as me the pain would feel the same and on a day to day working basis what we had between our legs probably wouldn't feel that different . Yet somewhere in that equation is a deep need for some of us that we just can't get out of our minds to be female .

I know I'm going to create some reaction but I know now as a TG that my problem is AGP . Others can and will put their own label on that need in an attempt to explain it. To be seen and accepted as a woman is becoming stronger , in many respects I'm almost there, so many have seen me now that the thoughts of it can never happen have been replaced by at some point it will happen.

To a degree it is confusing , I'm not TS with the feeling of having the wrong body and yet the desire to be seen and accepted as a woman is overwhelming.

Some may recall Marcelle, sadly she no longer comments here , she always said she wasn't TS and yet the overwhelming need to present as a woman eventually lead her to persuading the Canadian Army to accept her as a female major. I hope the fact that she no longer visits the forum means life is going well for her, I sincerely hope so , she had a tough time when she first joined the forum. I always felt close because she was the first one to greet me and since that point I felt we had so much in common , I for one do miss her input.

Interesting observations Teresa. I have followed your posts for many years and can see a marked change in you. I think I understand what you are saying. Some of us just do not feel very male. I grew up in a strongly female environment and so I feel quite comfortable with women talking about the things they like to talk about. I enjoy shopping and passing opinions on how female clothing suits someone and I don't mind doing domestic chores and so on.
I get along in male company but it never feels easy. It is as if I have to put on an act and talk about things I am not particularly interested in and also modify the way I talk to suit the male company. In contrast I have a female couple with whom I am very friendly and I feel perfectly at ease with them. I would be very comfortable presenting as a female full time but I just do not have the desire to change my genitalia.

Perhaps someone else can explain AGP. I suppose I should know as a member here but I admit ignorance.

I never thought of accessorising with a bucket of water T, thanks for the suggestion!

Agreed about Marcelle, and how come Alice Torn hasn't been here for a while?

Yeah, I miss Marcelle too. She was one of my gender heroes when I was trying to find my way. I'm hoping she's fine.

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I know I'm going to create some reaction but I know now as a TG that my problem is AGP .

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I'll probably slap my forehead right after I post this, but AGP? A Gender Problem? Anglophile Gerund Prolapse? Can't decode that. For what it's worth, the need to present / live as a woman while not being TS is a feature I share with you. So at least there are two of us. ;)

Consuelo,

I can really relate to your post! Especially the part about interacting with male company. I can't even remember the last time I was involved in a male conversation where I was actually interested. When I am in these situations, I feel like I am calling on all of my acting abilities to just maintain. I secretly wonder if they can see through it. I'm sure that some can recognize that there is something "off", but maybe can't quite put their finger on it.

Now, if they were to talk about heels or fabrics, outfits or accessories, we'd have an honest convo!

And like you, I too tend to enjoy doing simple domestic activities. I find a peace and contentment in those moments which is comforting and rewarding.

Brooke

AGP

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autogynephilia

Noun
The paraphilic tendency of a biological male to be sexually aroused by the thought of becoming a female, sometimes considered a form of gender identity disorder or transvestic fetishism

Read more at yourdictionary.com

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Teresa, you can only really do you best to get out there as a female. A lot of this will depend on your personal circumstances. Nothing says you can not live as a female on a full time basis. I don't say this is easy, as it does come with a few issues.

As an example, Last week when in the bank getting cash I was asked if the card I was using in the bank was mine.

The big difference as I see it, Teresa, is women experience those things without thinking, "Gee I feel like a female with wind in my hair!" They just think, "The wind is messing up my hair!" Or, whatever.

I read so many posts by dressers, "feeling like a woman" with the wind blowing on their legs, lipstick on their glass, etc. etc. I sympathize but don't really get it?:straightface:

I only experience things as me. Since I have no idea how women feel, imagining I am one can be fun, but it's just part of my fantasy. Which is what Sherry really is!:battingeyelashes:

For right now, I am not there but I think I understand! ( Alice Torn moved away from her family but moved in with roommates who were questionable. I have not heard from her for quite a while. ) Teresa, I have felt that with certain women I have run across! I have had that feeling despite no desire to transition. It can be a mess with having to be male for certain things and the desire to do things dressed. Feeling oneness with another even though she is female! At times, it can be unnerving! Hugs Lana Mae

Sherry,
That's totally the point I'm making, when it comes down to it with have so many similarities and yet some of us have in that equation the overwhelming need to be female. I'm not saying because we sense the same feelings like the wind in hair we must be female. It's not a flippant thought but a deeper one to understand the need .

Shelly,
Thanks for that but you've given a brief description about a far more complex subject. The basic definition was based on Ray Blanchard's work with TSs, it has moved on from his early work, it didn't relate to me directly because I''m not TS. I have been sent updated information referring to TGs, not all of it now is related to the sexual component, although in my case that is how it started at the age of 8-9 years. Now it has left me with overwhelming need to be seen and accepted as a woman, going out socially has turned that corner for me, I know it can and does happen .

Maybe some are missing the point, I did not want to be that particular woman and I'm not talking about the differences of relating between men and women. In a day to day existence we are equal in many ways , despite that some of us can't lose the idea of being female, so what are we really trying to achieve ?

Ah. AGP = autogynephilia. Glad I asked because I'd never have come to that on my own. Autogynephilia always struck me as one of those cart-before-the-horse ideas. Saying a person falsely thinks they're transgender when they're really they're just enamored of the image of themselves as a woman seems exactly backwards -- you're enamored of the image of yourself as a woman because you're transgender. I love the image of myself as a woman in the mirror -- that image gave me the shock of recognition that helped finally explain (to me) what this had all been about. I was not connecting with the male image and as a result was letting that body go to ruin and letting my life slide into depression as I waited out the clock on my horrible existence. Making that connection to myself turned my life around and literally saved me from myself. Thumbs up for the concept even if Blanchard got the causality exactly backwards. ;)

Well,, there are many missing. I miss Robins, posts as she was pretty interesting. It was she that posted the pink fog a long time ago. So many have gone. Teresa, well many of us do want to identify as one. yet we all are still men and our looks are male and it takes a lot to even look like a female.

Teresa, I can relate to you in many ways. Hopefully not speaking for you, I also have no interest in transitioning but ...definitely feel the AGP pull/desire get stronger and stronger as every year passes. I absolute love being a man yet I also absolutely love presenting as female. I have never struggled with the feeling of being "in the wrong body" yet go to greater and greater lengths to appear more feminine when I dress. And seek the admiration of both men and women in a "wow, you look amazing" or "I can't believe you're a man" sort of way. I think that's AGP in some shape or form.

I too really, really miss Marcelle and truly hope she is at a good place in her world. Her sensitivity (a cherished trait I absolutely adore) was exceptional! Many of my female coworkers include me as the only male to join them on a "girls night" because of my sensitivity and ability to relate to their concerns. As a male I absolutely own my sensitivity and directly attribute it to my cross dressing.

thanks for the interesting, thought provoking post :)

Perhaps another way of looking at what Teresa is saying is to think of how life would be if you could be like that girl carrying the water.

For myself it would mean that while wearing jeans and boots I would have long hair as I like to and have it properly styled. I would be wearing makeup, but not a lot as the sheep don't like it. I would of course be wearing feminine underwear and have pierced ears and perhaps even wear a necklace. Just something simple. To some I would appear as androgynous, while others would recognize the many commonly accepted feminine characteristics. I would not have transitioned as I am in just the place I want to be. I meet with people whose company I enjoy and many of those people happen to be genetic females. We have many topics of conversation in common. I don't flee male company but when I am with them I don't have to partake in the commonplace male tropes.

As for myself I would feel as if I am dressing and behaving exactly as I want. The wind blowing through my hair would not affirm my feminine characteristics but would just reinforce the sense of freedom to just be what I want to be and dress and present myself as I want to. I don't have to live a large part of my life in the shadows but move freely in the open without fear.

Consuelo,
Maybe I should try and word it differently.
I was trying to make the point that we don't live in a dual or multi gendered World. When I talk about the wind in her hair it's the same wind we feel , just because it's blowing her hair doesn't make it a female wind. If we both fell over at that point we would feel the same pain, most of the sensations and feelings are human without gender attributes. Yet when many of us talk about females and wanting to experience their feelings or share their clothes etc. we say it if the grass in far greener than it actually is, what we would actually experience in reality may not come up to expectations. I'm sure some TSs will nod their heads in agreement, but that doesn't stop the overwhelming feeling to want to be female, what drives that deep need in us ? Some of us don't stop until we achieve our goal of being part or all female, at the end of we may only achieve degrees of that goal . That's what I'm fighting with my feelings with AGP, it's a conflict I've had for most of my life .

I think I know what you are seeking. It's the same thing I want, BALANCE! The ability to express myself as I want, when I want.

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Originally Posted by Teresa

. At that moment I wondered how dissimilar were her feelings to mine ? The same wind was tossing our hair, so that would feel the same, my shaved legs would feel the same as hers as we were both wearing jeans, after a while my bra with forms would possibly have the same sensation. If she had arthritis in the same places as me the pain would feel the same and on a day to day working basis what we had between our legs probably wouldn't feel that different . Yet somewhere in that equation is a deep need for some of us that we just can't get out of our minds to be female .

.....
To a degree it is confusing , I'm not TS with the feeling of having the wrong body and yet the desire to be seen and accepted as a woman is overwhelming.

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Trying to understand.
So you are looking at her and questioning what it is that makes her "her" and you a "him", and why you feel such a strong need to be seen and accepted as a her too?

When you state you want / need to socially transition, that you need to be seen and accepted as a woman, but are not TS, it does not really make sense to me. Well what does that mean? Do you think of yourself as a guy who wants to be seen and accepted as a woman? A full time man in a dress? Is that who you are? That makes no sense to me, what would be the point? Or maybe you are a woman that needs the world to finally see her? In which case why wouldnt you do everything you needed to for that to be reality?

Prior to transition I did not think of myself as a woman, or female, or feel that I had the wrong body. I did think of myself as a mentally sick and confussed guy who hated that I was a guy, and felt like I was living a lie.
Transition fixed all that in that things don't feel wrong that way anymore. I don't feel wrong anymore. I realized that I am woman and was all along. Nothing to do with what I get to wear or don't wear, a male side or female side, or what or who sexually arouses me.

It has been a while since we have heard for either one of those members.
I do hope they are doing well.

Teresa, I feel that you are caught up in trying to define yourself, it seems to matter to you whether you are TS or not. For example, I don't feel that I am born in the wrong body but yet I feel that I am mostly female in many respects, I don't really define myself into a category.

Clearly you have very strong feelings why you have them doesn't really matter what does matter is that you seem to be unhappy fighting these feelings.

Yes if you both fall over you will feel the same pain, but some people feel the need to fall over when they are dressed as a female in oder to be happy, or they want to feel that breeze in their long hair or whatever.

Arbon,
That is the complexities of AGP, when I first checked it out I came up with Blanchard's original ideas which were only associated with TSs. I have been in touch with people who continued and extended his work and have since been sent AGP in association with TGs. I was given several examples of TGs who have fully transitioned to come to terms with the needs to be accepted and seen as a woman . I mentioned Marcelle, but I will add I'm not putting words in her mouth as she never mentioned AGP also she no longer visits the forum to answer that particular question . I will add at the time she never mentioned hormones or surgery and yet she went on to serve in the Canadian army as a female officer.

If my separation had happened my plan was also to go full time and run an art course or painting group.

I don't feel I'm mentally ill through wanting hating myself as a guy, but there is mental anguish wanting to satisfy the overwhelming need, yes I do admit it sounds confusing .

Becky,
I know we have had this conversation , it's just the way I am , I need to know what drives me, to have an explanation stops you going round in mental circles, I know what I need to do to achieve what my needs are, people need beliefs and that is mine.

I am more confused than I was.

Are you just saying that you want to present and live full-time in feminine mode and that you feel this very strongly? That is you dress, present and act as if you are female and be accepted as such by those with whom you interact, but you don't want to go though sexual reassignment surgery?

Consuelo,
Yes that is correct at the moment, some TGs with AGP are totally satisfied with that, others do need to transition in varying degrees to achieve that.

I mentioned Marcelle because she did exactly the same thing, I'm certain she didn't start hormones but I will check the archives to see if that is correct. I'm not sure how far the archives go back, I believe some of them were lost in the aborted forum upgrade, the mods will possibly correct me on that point.

I accepted myself a while back, I am a woman. It's just I am also very practical just like my mother. I was born a man and I have built a life as a man and I have responsibilities and people who depend on me as a man. Maybe if when I was younger I could have changed paths but now I just can not. Accepting myself helped a lot. Now that I know I spot the differences and and it helps me be content. I absolutely love going out as a woman, it feels like that is the way things were supposed be. I thought for a very long time that I did a lot of things because I was a strong male, but the strongest person I have ever known was my mom.

Teresa,

OK, I understand. This is what I was trying to explain in an earlier reply to your post.

I both empathize and sympathies with what you desire. There are many occasions when all I wish to do is adopt several distinguishing characteristics of femininity. I was on a long backpacking trip with friends a few years ago. Everyone wore clothing that was very simple and practical such as shorts and T-shirts along with boots and a floppy hat to protect from the sun but the women in the party still had simple studs in their ears, wore their hair in a feminine style and perhaps wore a simple practical piece of jewelry and still had painted nails. As I had not "come out" to that group I did not have any of those simple distinguishing marks of femininity, even though I would have loved to.
So the desire would go from a full-on outfit for a cocktail party environment such as you show in your picture, to an everyday practical look in jeans and boots to feed the sheep but with as many items of femininity as one could practically adopt in that situation.

I always want to present on the feminine side of the clothing spectrum and behave accordingly.

Consuelo,
Yes you are correct, for the most part I would dress according to the circumstances just as most GGs, OK there are the odd occasions when you push the envelope. I was recently in touch with my gender counsellor, we exchange Emails as friends, I also sent her some recent pictures , her comment about my the Union Jack dress was I've got more courage than she had to wear it, ( she actually used a different term but the mods might not like it !)
I have to admit that I've never found pierced ears a credential to femininity, I love earrings but clipons suit me fine.

I know I've made this comment before but the first time I went out I didn't feel nervous at all, it was a buffet and dance to celebrate the 4th anniversary of the group so I wore a full length ball gown with a strapless bra ( which was a first for me ) but it felt right , I felt so comfortable driving and meeting 45 people ( which was also a first for me, I'd never met a dressed CDer before ), Carole commented you were ready for that. To me I was finally fulfilling a need , I was being seen and accepted as a woman . The turning point for me was the Xmas party, meeting , dining and dancing with the general public and then staying over and dressing for breakfast , it proved to me I can do this. No I'm not going to use the word passable, but I know now I can go out there as a plausable female. As a footnote, when I stayed over at Carole's , I wasn't sure I'd found the right house, I never gave it a thought how I was dressed , ( at the time it was a denim skirt and striped blouse with a dusky pink suede jacket and 3" wedges ) I just jumped out the car and rang the door bell, at the time a guy passed walking his dog and a taxi was picking up a fare across the road . I then went back to my car to get my overnight bag and and some wine for the BBQ we were going to , it was just me dressed as a female and it didn't bother me.