Are we THAT cliche'?

I just got done watching the first 11 episodes of Transparent, and I have one word - Depressing! Wow, what a cast of characters. I really didn't find much sympathy for most of them. I would swear that Tennesse Williams wrote that from the great beyond. Most of the characters were totally self absorbed. And frankly, the sex scene were uncomfortable and un-enticing.

But perhaps that was what the writers were looking for. Who knows?

Anyway, having gotten that out of the way, I had some other thoughts or observations. I wonder how accurate the depiction of Maura and the other crossdressers is. I guess that I have encountered a variety of people that crossdress, and seen them look and behave in the manner presented, but I also kind of felt that they over did it a little. The schoolgirl giddyness of Maura and Mark in a number of scenes seemed somewhat repetative and juvinile. Most of the crossdressers at the camp/conference did only a fair job of dressing and makeup. So many bad wigs. The fierce admonition that Transsexuals were not really welcome, because We Are MEN!

I don't know, it just all seemed a bit much. While I think it DID represent the community to a degree, I also felt that it cherry picked. For those not in the community, I would think it did not look pretty. Of course some of this needs to be viewed within a historical context as well. I say this because some of the scenes of Maura's "Current Time" friends seemed so much more well adjusted and normal. Maybe because they were TS, maybe because with the prevelence of knowledge and connection, largely provided by the internet, we have become more sophisiticated and experienced, and are somewhat less in that akward pubescent stage.

But then again it made me wonder. Do I look like that or come across like that? Maybe, while I choke in the pink fog, I too am almost a charicature. Maybe there is a big difference in how we act and are preceived based on where we are on the spectrum, what our motivations are, why we do what we do. Maybe this post really belongs to the Non-binary? Or maybe just me.

What do you think, are we that cliche'?

The show's creator, Jill Soloway, has a transgender parent. Many of the scenes in the show are based on their experiences.

Yeah, I think we can be. Jill Soloway identifies as non-binary and was inspired by their father's late adult transition. Solloway reportedly has trans consultants for the show and transfirmative hiring policy.

Hell-o Meghan,
To the "muggles" we may seem just a bit cliche.
I prefer to look at it like this...
As a whole we may seem ordinary, but separately
we are all quite unique.

BTW, you didn't seem to be channeling your inner
"giddy school girl" when we met!
Much Love,
Kristyn

That probably makes a lot of sense. There is a lot of anguish and akwardness in the show, even more from the rest of the "Normal" folks than even the Trans/TG/CD's. And I do not disagree that those experiences are common. But in a way, you can tell it is a story from outside looking in.

Anyway, it may not be altogether uplifting, but it really makes me wonder what I appear as in the mirror of someone else's eye. I hope a little more cheerful and sohpisticated.

I watched most of the first season, and finally just couldn't stand any more. I found it thoroughly cliched, but not with real cliches. These were the cliches of those who have no clue about transgender issues. So the show's creator has consultants and personal experience. It can't make up for thoroughly bad writing.

I think we overdo it a bit, but we have to compensate for all our male characteristics that are ingrained in us. I think my mannerisms are much more feminine than the genetic females I see in public and I dress better. I know I'll catch hell for that last remark.

Qed.....

I love Transparent and amazingly so does my wife. It's the only trans related series/movie that she will watch. I find it to be incredibly well written and relatable on many many levels. I spent four years attending a monthly big city TG/CD support group and I see members of that group (metaphorically) every time I watch the show. We watched the first two episodes of the new season four just last night and loved them being back.

I don't watch TV serials or sitcoms. Thank u for your review of Transparent, Meghan. Now, I have good reasons to never watch it.

However, I can tell u that I have met at least a 100 trans at various T events over the years. I can think of many words to describe them, individuals, interesting, unusual, and mostly fun to be around. However, cliches or stereo types, r NOT words that I would use!

I attempted to watch Transparent and couldn't make it through one episode. The children are so self absorbed and unlikeable. It reminded me of Thirty Something which I thought was awful at the time.
Are we a cliché, I don't think so all the TG people I've met over the past few years are real people and very nice.

I agree with you about the characters in Transparent being self absorbed, but they're no different to the characters in eg Friends, or 2 Men & A Baby, or any of countless other popular shows. Self absorption is the new norm. All hail Instagram.

To me though, Maura is a perfect depiction of a man carrying decades of weight, a lifetime of uncomplainingly supporting all those around him, who finally decides he's done enough for others and with such time as he has left, decides finally to begin living life for herself. I found her a very lovable character, while virtually every other character was (to me) more or less repulsive. So perhaps the writer overdid the obnoxious qualities of the others to make Maura seem more sympathetic? The only other character I recall who actually lived an honest life and had some nobility of spirit was the rabbi.

I love Maura's self acceptance, her kindness and patience with the lost souls that surround her. She knows herself- something few people ever really do.

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Originally Posted by Meghan4now

But then again it made me wonder. Do I look like that or come across like that? Maybe, while I choke in the pink fog, I too am almost a charicature. Maybe there is a big difference in how we act and are preceived based on where we are on the spectrum, what our motivations are, why we do what we do.

...

What do you think, are we that cliche'?

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Some of us, at times -- yes, absolutely.

Almost hate to say it, but an honest question deserves an honest answer/opinion.


And it's not just on the internet, either. Years ago I hung out with a CD'er, want to say in her late-40's / early 50's. A bit flamboyant sometimes while in guy-mode, but still fairly sophisticated & what-not. But throw on a dress, wig & make-up, go out as a group, then get a couple drinks in her? My God, man... Like hanging out with an obnoxious 13-year-old girl.

My eyebrow was certainly raised that night. Won't get into specifics, but was even kind of embarrassed to be in her vicinity, considering that I was all dolled-up, too.

Only hung out with her once while she was dressed. Never again, thanks. :evilbegon


Anyway, I should mention: This is just one example. Of quite a few, sadly. :(

Ha! various depictions in TV can be cringeworthy.

I never saw Transparent, but there was a sound clip on Fresh Air on NPR of the show when Terry interviewed Jeffrey Tambor. Tambor's character is arguing with his daughter. She's complaining that when she said she didn't want a bar mitzvah, he was too quick to agree and cancel the event so that he could go to a CD convention. It was kind of a funny scene.

My favorite CD on TV is Carolyn (Jamie) from King of the Hill, with her overly supportive mother. "Um, I'm a friend of Carolyn..."

I find the show to be powerful. First, remember it is not a show about crossdressers, and the scenes with the camp you speak of were an early part of Maura's journey in understanding herself. You might find the animosity towards transsexuals ridiculous, but that was an early policy of TriEss, one of the leading organizations for crossdressers. Although, I don't identify as transsexual, I have friends who do, and I myself identify as bigender. I still see some of myself in Maura, and definitely feel great sympathy for her. I loved the bathroom scene, where she was confronted by a lady, and just wanted to quietly leave, but her daughter wanted to make a fight out of it. And Jeffrey Tamboor is fantastic at displaying how Maura tries to hide how hurt she is when she faces some new injustice.

Although the children are very unlikable at first, they do grow as the show goes on. They are all damaged people and make mistakes, but they begin to become more likable with time.

It's television. If they don't make most of the characters at least a bit 'over the top', it won't generate any interest. So the characters all have to have some sort of issue whenever we see them. No one wants to watch normal people doing normal things with no problems. So they over do it.

I had trouble watching it for that reason. For me, I would have been satisfied to just see how Maura deals with her situation. But it seems like they try to view EVERY single thing as if when a trans person is involved, it's so very different and filled with conflicts.

So yes, seems everyone in the show is a caricature of what normal folks of that type would be; it appears to be written that way intentionally. The best way I could explain it, would be that we all know that women speak with more tonal range than men do. But when you hear a feminine gay man speak, he does it with even MORE tonal and dynamic range than even an excited women does, all to differentiate himself from other men, in all cases, even when it's nor required. It seems that all the people in most of these shows do that, and they do it all the time, as if we're going to forget that they're either trans, or have to interact with a trans person differently than they do anyone else; then, not to be incomplete, they behave with 'anyone else' just as over the top as they did with the trans person.

So. It's all just too much. All the stereotypes seemingly are done over the top, too.

I watched the first season, and it was hard to get through. I have no desire to watch any more.

All the show does, is support the stereotypes for the rest of the world to see, and that makes outsiders who watch, think we're nuts.

Jamie

I agree with you

as a transsexual i did find some cliches and tropes especially in the earlier parts...but its just a show
the biggest cliche i found was the women's retreat..and it seemed more offensive to non-ts folks than anything in the show..

its a show that is deep touching and funny...people are imperfect..
i loved it

... the kids and their selfish and confused responses to dad, as well as the wife's inablity to process at first and grudging acceptance seem spot on the mark to me...
and it showed clearly the many ways that being an older transitioner absolutely sucks, and the many ways that its transcendant and life affirming

What i especially appreciated is that the show was not about a transsexual, it was about a family and starred a transsexual character(multiple), and it took the ts characters seriously...warts and all

its wonderful show ..season 4 tho is showing its age...my interest waned because as some have said, you really have to work to like some of the characters

im not surprised that many cd's didnt like it, its not about crossdressing

...and im not attacking anyone but many cd's dont know much about ts folk...and the show didnt elevate and focus on the clothes and dressing very much at all, and the CD convention seemed very real to me based on my multiple attendances and it highlighted the differences, that Maura was not a crossdresser
...in all my time here, ive found that topic to be a really hot topic with alot of vitriol

If you really want to see a good microcosm of our world, go to a large conference like Keystone or Southern Confort. Take some time to just sit and observe. These gatherings have the entire spectrum on display and you can see the interaction and reaction. There are those that do nothing but work at improving appearance. There are those that just want dress so they can dance and drink at a club without inhibition. There are those trying to get past their fear of dressing or showing themselves in public. There are those who are trying to make transition work. There are others trying to just get reassurance and confirmation.
We are as diverse as any other group, so what you saw on Transparent is a reflection of some of us. There may be trips to restaurants, casinos, dance clubs and shopping at these gatherings, but my favorite thing to do is grab a drink and a quite corner and watch the world roll by!

Not just our world, Heidi. You're describing a microcosm of society in general :)

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Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard

I think we overdo it a bit, but we have to compensate for all our male characteristics that are ingrained in us. I think my mannerisms are much more feminine than the genetic females I see in public and I dress better. I know I'll catch hell for that last remark.

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As a follower of fashion, crossdressers that are out in the public are often better dressed then genetic females but this holds true only in the U.S. See Stylish Crossdressers on Sister House https://www.sisterhouse.net/dressingroom/

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Originally Posted by tasidevil

As a follower of fashion, crossdressers that are out in the public are often better dressed then genetic females but this holds true only in the U.S. See Stylish Crossdressers on Sister House https://www.sisterhouse.net/dressingroom/

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Now this is a cliche...

a sexist and arrogant one..
the CD dresses better than real woman trope is a laughable fantasy...

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

It's television. If they don't make most of the characters at least a bit 'over the top', it won't generate any interest. So the characters all have to have some sort of issue whenever we see them. No one wants to watch normal people doing normal things with no problems. So they over do it. . . . .

. . . All the show does, is support the stereotypes for the rest of the world to see, and that makes outsiders who watch, think we're nuts.

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That's my observation as well. And if you look at reviews of shows that highlight other minorities or specific types of work groups they say the same things. Usually until a show has a couple of seasons under it's belt it fails to look with any detail and honesty at the characters. There are exceptions to this but it's very common. Cops criticize cop shows, Lawyers don't like shows about lawyers and Blacks are very often critical of shows that misrepresent their lives.

There are moments in Transparent that ring true; her line "I've been pretending to be a man all my life." comes to mind, but in order to keep the narrative going they have to exaggerate and create conflict, even where it doesn't exist. Much of what Mara and the family go through does not represent reality, only dramatic license. It's true that some people get that, but many see fiction as reality. But given the choice between Transparent and shows where the trans character is a serial killer, sex worker or only there for comic relief, this is refreshing as hell.

Where it succeeds is in creating a space for discussion and in some ways normalizing the place in society that trans people occupy. When we can encounter someone in a one on one situation and they can see the reality of our life and are open to it because they have become aware of it through shows like this, it has served a purpose. Will it or has it already "jumped the shark"? Most assuredly. I only hope it has opened more doors than other less sympathetic representations have closed.

Thanks. This is one of the better discussions I've seen in a while, and I can definitely understand most perspectives. And, yes that Tri-Ess thing came to mind when I saw it. Like I said, historic perspective.