My first ever "oh well" moment?

So I was in my local Torrid the other day? One of the ladies who works there is always very nice to me, if the store isn't busy, we'll usually have a bit of a chat about various things - life, the universe and everything. She also recommends new items for me, knows me as Andrea, and will write Andrea on the fitting room door if I try things on. A few trips ago, she even made a specific statement as I was about to leave that if I needed anything she was there to help. I think I posted (fairly) recently, that upon checking my receipt when I got home, that she'd applied a discount (that I didn't know about.)

So what's the "problem"? Well, I was in a few days ago, got the usual Hi and how's everything pleasantries. And, she was training a new SA, she must've been late teens/very early twenties. I was purchasing a new top, and when paying for it, the manager was using the opportunity to train the new girl. Which is great. The manager asks for my phone number to pull up my account, and despite calling me Andrea, says (to the girl) "he". Then, the manager says "oh you've got a $10 credit on your account". Which is odd, because I'd been checking my online account with them the previous few days, and would certainly have noticed $10! And I'm currently not close to $10 with my Torrid Rewards. So I'm like, OK, I'm not going to argue, $10 off is $10? Then, she says "he" again to the SA.

Now, I can't mind read? but, the new SA is looking at me, with a weird look on her face, and I'm assuming she's thinking, why is my boss calling this shopper a he when he is clearly presenting as female (albeit badly! I might add!) and using a fem name. Yes, I AM a guy, yes, I'm a cross dresser (not passable), no, I'm not trans? but it struck me as? odd, given our (admittedly probably fairly limited) business association (me - I buy things, she sells them to me.)

In the end, I think the poor new trainee was more flustered (and confused) than I was.
I was kinda, "oh well".
Just not sure given our "history" that I would've expected that. And I "ummed" and "ahhed" about even posting this until -

Then, today, I was in a WalMart I don't frequent that often, and they had a new "receipt checker/security on the door, an older guy.
"Thank you for shopping at WalMart Ma'am, enjoy the rest of your day" with a lovely smile in a really nice tone of voice.

Swings and roundabouts?

Oh well, at least you got the discount

Hope that didn't turn u against your "friend", Andrea? Sounds like he, oops! I mean, she gives u extra breaks!:thumbsup:

I sometimes when speaking about a masculine CD who is not present to my close CD buddy I will slip and call her, "he", without thinking. Then, have to correct myself.:o

So, when someone calls me "he" when out dressed? I don't bat an eye. I have a mirror and know a MIAD when I see one!:daydreaming:

Andrea, if the SA has always treated you well and had one little slip up, I wouldn't be that upset. If it happens again, then I'd find another place to shop.

Andrea,
I think some people are simply not sure how "we" prefer to be addressed unless we specifically tell them. As you likely know, there are members here who dress entirely in very female clothing, yet still desire to be seen and addressed as male, it must be confusing to others sometimes.
I suggest that you do not make a big deal out of this, but next time you see her simply tell her that if it is ok with her, you would prefer to be addressed as a female when you are presenting as such. Judging by what you just told us about your relationship, I would expect that she will be fine with using female pronouns for you.
If it turns out that she is not OK with that, well then you can consider what to do next, but I bett that is not going to happen.
Good for you to have such a great relationship with a clothing store manager! I am slightly envious :)

Andrea,

As you seem to have such a good rapport with the SA I would contemplate asking why she used the pronoun she did. It simply may have been that she was so engrossed in training the new colleague that she simply didn't realise what she was saying. I'd emphasise that it didn't really bother you, more that you were surprised by it given how helpful and understanding she normally is and the fact she calls you Andrea.

As Suzie has said, some people just don't know what's appropriate with all the correct pronoun nonsense. When I'm out and having encounters I find it complimentary being maam'd.
And I would love for someone to just honestly ask if I'm male. Because that's what I am and when I'm out emulating my fem side, I'm the guy having the most fun.

I have the same nice relationship with a manager at Torrid also in Ca but in SoCal. Sorry she called you he and a little suprised at that but others have given good answers as to possibly why. I think people are pretty good about addressing us directly but when referring to us as a third person it gets trickier. I recently was having a good experience at a goodwill store but when I left my sunglasses on the counter someone said oh those are his. As you said Oh Well.

I think the whole pronoun issue has become very difficult. Seems like never a day passes without some issue arising about people using the wrong pronoun and being offended. I know I get confused sometimes as well. Then as Jesse mentioned, when it evolves to a third person situation, we tend to handle it differently. Our guardrails can fall away as we evert to the training of our lives and not the latest social rules.

I wouldn?t put too much weight to the situation you encountered Andrea, if all else continues to be fine in the future.

Unfortunately, it gets confusing these days. I don't know how people expect the general public to understand. at least in the early days, you could be expected to go according to looks. nowadays, that's not always the right answer.

I'm usually in girl mode at the bank. I'm there the other day for an emergency stop on my way home from work and this girl was helping me and the manager is needed. So he comes over and starts referring to me as she, even though I wasn't dressed, I mean, I don't look all that different.It's pretty much just boobs or not. I can imagine. The girl was a bit confused. At least for that transaction. She'll get to know me.

Andrea, I'm wondering whether your Torrid account is under the name Andrea or under your male name? If the latter, consider that the SA was looking at your account 'while training a young SA trainee'. They are both looking at your male name on the store's computer, and it is possible she was signaling to the trainee that a disparity between name on an account and the appearance of the customer is not, in itself, a cause for concern.

Unless you discover otherwise when you next see your SA friend, I wouldn't worry about it.

I do not go out dressed, so I have never been put into a similar situation. As others have said, it is getting more and more confusing these days. The human brain is not perfect, I know there have been times when things came out of my mouth that were not right for the moment. It seems like you have a very good rapport with this manager. If a friend of yours made a mistake, you would forgive and move on. You may want to consider this one of those moments and let it go. Just one mans, er, girls opinion. Love, Meg

The few times I've been gendered recently as male have been by young people. They have much better vision than older folks. They also don't have the issues with cross dressing like people in their 60s and 70s.

They also tend to pick up things like my buying practice golf balls or buying ten pounds of groceries with a hand carried basket wearing high heels.

My 2 cents:

Try not to make a big deal out of someone that you know - misgendering you.

I see so many CDers (where I work) and I have to make a conscious effort to keep the pronouns neutral. Most are obviously men in women's clothing; and I get it; they want to be addressed as women. When I get very busy, I don't want to slip up. But I can understand how it happens. Don't take it personal. CDers are putting the onus on the public to address them the way they want to be seen. Since you know this SA and she is usually nice to you, she may have just reverted to what she knows in a busy moment.

Sorry to read about your experience Andrea. I hope it doesn’t get you down too much and your next experience is a much more positive one.

I would not read into it too much as she treats you good, has given you a discount and $10 Torrid cash which you felt you had not earned.
I think you have an SA that likes you and values your business, I would cut her some slack on this.

I would be happy with the discount, and not read too much into the pronoun. Some years back, I found some sales people could be snarky about using "Sir" when I was dressed at least partially fem, but I don't get that so much these days. Not that I look any more passable, mind you, but times have changed and folks are more conscious of what they say, when a sale is on the line.

Whenever I get called mam or miss, it is the best day of my life. I'm walking on a cloud.
I was called sir one day and it threw me for a loop for a bit.
.

The main thing is; treat THEM with respect. If possible, with cordiality. If you do that, consistently, you have the best odds of having them reciprocate.

I hope after you left the store the trainee asked questions, like why did the trainer keep referring to your with male pronouns. I think the younger the generation, the more receptive to the trans community. If this happened to me, I would wonder what the trainer was really think on my prior interactions. False acceptance?

Sometimes I don't even know what I am!

Pronouns are descriptive. If you don't pass, as you said, and you're obviously a guy, which you said you are, then "he" is accurate. If it had been me, and the SA had called me "her" I would have laughed and asked "do I look like a 'her'?"

As for me, I frankly don't care what pronouns they use to address me, so long as it does not sound derogatory. I know that sometimes I do not pass. But for all of you, I certainly don't want any of you to be disrespected by someone using an emphatic "SIR". That would be way out of line. A slip-up and quick correction is fine, but nothing deliberately mean.

With that said, it sure is nice to be "ma'am"ed from time to time. Such as the time I was on the PA turnpike en-femme (before I had E-Z pass and long before all electronic tolling) and the male toll taker said "Have a nice evening, ma'am."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Suzie Petersen

Andrea,
I think some people are simply not sure how "we" prefer to be addressed unless we specifically tell them. As you likely know, there are members here who dress entirely in very female clothing, yet still desire to be seen and addressed as male, it must be confusing to others sometimes.

---

This is something my antenna is always up for, as someone who now dates crossdressers. I've even gotten to the point of not taking a default stance, and accepting whichever answer I get, be it a specific pronoun or ambivalence.

~*~*~

Andrea: It is okay to correct someone, kindly and calmly, while acknowledging in the following dialogue that you understand the difference between intentional disrespect and a sincere mistake, and ascribing her the latter benefit of the doubt. This sales associate, having a a cordial rapport with you already, is highly likely to be open to the gentle correction without performing a huge apology back to you, which can also be uncomfortable. Wishing you well!