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I volunteer for a sorts club and usually teach the kids. We had a new student whose gender was ambiguous. When I asked she said she was gender fluid and her preferred pronoun changed. I couldn't care less but when I told the other coaches there was eye rolling and one brought out the usual anti trans stereotypes. It made me sad that people who are in other areas really good people are still stuck in these backward ideas.
I hope her acknowledgement does not become a barrier in the way of her participation.
Differences in ideas are not backward or forward. On X today, Keenu "I have learned not to argue". If someone say 1+1=5, I just agree and go on with life. Choose battles and don't make everything a contest.
Thank you for helping the newbie struggling with life.
Yes indeed backwards thinking, ideas and Philosophy?s at WARP SPEED! Kinda wonder if this is really the 21st century.
Maybe 1+1=5
Whenever I'm introduced to someone that's a "they"? I'm tempted to ask, "Which "they" r u?":heehee:
Doc, I say "where's the other one?"
As CDers we dress and physically emulate women and want to be accepted. Maybe we could accept people who's ask is to be addressed by "they". But apparently not. It seems tolerance is only good for you as long as it concerns your ways, not when it fits the ways of others. Well, in the end, you are just being intolerant.
Why not just live and let live. How can we ask to be accepted and yet not give it in return.
Simple. Pick from "he" or "she" unless there are two of you.
"They" is plural. It's confusing when one person is coming over and someone says "they're coming over." I then ask who's coming with her? No one, just them.
This is nothing new, "they" has always been plural. The exception has been when we seriously didn't know the gender of the person we're talking about and was born out of laziness, "someone cut me off, don't know what they were thinking" instead of "....what he/she was thinking".
Most people are accepting of trans people. The number one complaint I hear is about being forced to use improper pronouns.
read John McWhorter: "the singular "they"has been with us since the 1400's and appears in the works of Shakespeare ...." I have to agree with Chrissy don't ask for acceptance if you're not willing to give it
Perhaps I just don't get out enough as I have yet to meet anyone that wants to be addressed as 'they'.
The thread is about discussing how people react to pronouns.
My opinion is whatever pronoun someone feels finally comfortable with should not be questioned.
Even with a joking manner. IMHO
Let’s be respectful, you would think I would not have to say this in this forum.
if someone tells you their pronouns are “ she/her, him they ,them ” you respect that—no ifs, no buts. it is not about “ forcing beliefs, ” it’s about basic human decency. your actions are dismissive, joking ,hurtful, and a reflection of how far we still have to go as a society
We anre all fighting our own battles but that doesn’t give us the right to throw shade at someone else’s identity.
respect is free.
Kimdl
Even if they have "sub optimal" feelings about gender variant people I can't imagine them ever expressing that to a kid. The program is coed so "s"he wont have any issues until "s"he is ready to compete in tournaments. So I think "s"he will be fine. I just don't get to look at my friends quite the same way.... That's where the sad comes in. I do appreciate your concern for the kid. :)
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I'm with the whatever pronouns someone wants should be respected school of thought. It's no different than calling a cis woman who identifies as female "her". It would be rude to deliberately refer to this woman as "him" Just with gender atypical people it might not be clear at first glance... but once we know what they prefer....
I also think there needs to be a tolerance for honest mistskes. After life times of using pronouns on autopilot someone well meaning should be forgiven for slipping into decades of old habits so long as they own the mistake and genuinely intend to respect the other person.
It's a learning opportunity for people who haven't grasped the concept. My granddaughter (now my grandson) went through a period where he wanted to be referred to as "they/them". However, now it's changed to "he/him". No one really has to argue the point. Just go with it.
Eye rolling (as Brynna M pointed out), just shows lack of knowledge (and lack of respect). My thought is that some people don't realize how this behavior affects others until they have a family member or friend who is going through a gender exploration/acceptance. It's especially disturbing when a coach or person who works with kid is so ill prepared and disrespectful to understand.
Kindness doesn't hurt anyone.
I'm with OAG! Often a harried waitress, clerk, or vendor will refer to me as "him", "sir", etc. And, then appologetically correct themselves. I could care less if their service and attitude is well intentioned!:thumbsup:
I have a mirror. I KNOW I'm a MIAD!:daydreaming:
But, so many dressers either get their panties all twisted up when called "he".:doh:
Or, it makes their day when called, "ma'am"!:)
I once knew a non-binary individual, and they was fairly easy to use with them, to be honest I have no idea what their birth sex was (their presentation was completely androgynous), and don't much care either way.
I'd probably struggle with "today a he, tomorrow a she", unless the outward presentation was fairly obvious, not out of any ill will but I doubt I'd be able to keep track of it.
I think I'd resort to they/them if someone insisted on neo-pronouns (zhe/zhim etc. etc.), but I don't think this actually exists much outside of the internet.
I'm not gonna say I completely understand this stuff, but shoot, I don't really understand myself either
In my younger days I had very long hair and got miss'd/maam'd from behind a few times followed by apologies that I confirmed were compliments and thanked folks.
Personally I don't give rat's pitute about someone else's salutation requirements that I'm supposed to know up front. And if you tell me your pronouns, you just get a look. You know, like, "Whatever."
I wasn't being flippant with my post. I truly have never met anyone who has asked to be addressed other than he/ she/mister or madam or any other form.
For me I think live and let live is key.
(To members deriding the ask) You can accept the ask or refuse to honor it, it's your choice as an individual. What I find astonishing is to treat it like it's a request from outer space just because you're from a different crowd, when what you do routinely to justify your membership in this forum is also from outer space to so many crowds. If we mock or dismiss trans persons asking to be referred to as "they" because it's odd in our eyes, then we should be prepared to be mocked or dismissed too, since the things we do with the crossdressing are odd, and to a much greater level, to many eyes too. Thinking that one's point of view trumps the others, that one's peculiarities are legit but others' aren't, is completely arbitrary. The speck and the log.
The problem I have with 'they' as a pronoun is in the addressing of a singular person. 'They' to me is a plural. It's almost hard-coded for me in my upbringing. It would be as if referring to myself as 'we'. Referring to a singular person as 'they' almost smacks of referring to them as schizophrenic. Try as I might, my brain has a heck of a time using 'they'; I find myself slipping into he or she and I most emphatically don't want to do that since they want to be referred to as 'they'. The coping mechanism I've come up with is to use the name they prefer.
Julie, I am glad you do not go with the coping mechanism and go with the pronoun they prefer. Kudos
Someone trying to figure out their gender may use phrases that indicate uncertainty, exploration, or a sense of disconnect from their assigned gender. The language used is often a way to process internal feelings, test different identities, and seek support from others.
Common things someone might say include:
Feelings of uncertainty and change
"My gender is uncertain."
"My gender feels complex."
"I don't know my gender".
"I feel stuck between genders."
"Feelings about gender change over time".
Exploring expression and pronouns
"Considering new pronouns, like they/them, to see how it fee.
We have members in their 70s and 80s trying to figure themselves out still
And all of that is A-OK
I also have a grandchild that is going through this for a few years now .
I-think it is wonderful many younger people feel free to figure it out .
They- them - might be an in between….trying to figure themselves out things out.
If they stay at they and them ….its all good.
Nothing is black and white .
Not everyone is a she or he , or they have not figured out….they only want to be accepted.
Doesn’t everyone?
Again, the singular they is long established, correct English. If a news person was reporting on a traffic accident where there was an injury, but didn't yet have the information as to the gender of the injured party, they would say "We don't yet have the identity of the injured person, they were taken by med flight to the county hospital" Similarly, if you don't know the gender of a person you are speaking about, you can guess "He" or "She" and have a 50% chance of using the correct pronoun, or you could say "They" and be 100% correct.
I know one person whose preferred pronoun is they, a friend of my wife. I’d met her before the name change, and at first found it hard to use they as a singular pronoun, but after a while it became easier, and now it’s just the way it is. It happens that they are the only person (wife aside) who has seen me dressed when they come over to our place for dinner. They accept me and I accept them. And words change all the time, no language ever stands still.