Another "Reasons" thread ??

I’m not sure if this has really been done here, I’d guess it has in many ways looking at just about every angle but why are we the way we are? I suppose there are a thousand reasons and everyone of us has a different reason or at least believe they do. The reality is we probably make up our own based upon our experiences and what we have learnt.

Here are mine:

1. I have seen a TV documentary which stated that there was some evidence that gender was set in a certain part and the brain and that Transsexuals brains reassembled that of Genetic Girls. It was thought that it was caused by an overdose of female hormones in the womb. Now if the level of hormones is variable wouldn’t that explain the various levels of Cross dressers through to those who need full SRS. Part time to full time and everything in between?

2. The idea of being different. How many Teen “Cults” are there? Why? Don’t we all want to be considered as an individual and not a sheep?

3. The fun in bucking the “norm”. Fighting what society feels right? Being naughty?

4. The risk of getting caught?

5. The fact that girls have such huge selection of choice that males do not.

6. The grass is greener on the other side?

7. Feminine attire feels so much nicer?

8. Attraction to woman and being jealous that they can look so sexy? Wanting to join in, whereas men are not sexy at all so why would you want to look like one?

9. Being left out of the “secret world of woman”? Wanting to know how it feels, what they get up to?

10. Sexual thrill.

11. Being brought up in a house where the “alpha” male was away a lot of the time. I lived mostly with my Mother and Sister whilst Dad worked away.


Add this lot in different ways and different amounts and I think that’s why I love to dress as a girl.

What does everybody else think? Where do you fit in? Do you agree with my reasons or do you have others?

My personal view is close to 1.)
Especially for the various level part. For almost every trait or skill human beings have there is a continuum or spectrum among the population.
Why should it be any different for gender identity. TS is the 'degree' where the coin flips.

Everything else, points 2-11 and a few more, are secondary effects and attempts for justification IMO, which depend on the 'degree' of 'transness', social settings, personal experiences and situation and the way the individual person deals with it.

Personally I would add 12
Dislike of a good part of manliness and male culture.
It's not all good within female culture, but it is much closer to my Self.

I've stopped trying to figure it out Sarah and have just accepted it. It tends to wear you out otherwise. Evidently The Creator deemed I was to be this way for a purpose, so who am I to question it? I've learned to go with the flow and with my feelings. As far as females having a bigger choice of what to wear, yeah maybe but the beauty part is they also have the option not to. GG's are busy people and I have the utmost respect for the ones here. Who wants to look like a "fashion plate" when you have work to do? I guarantee any of the ladies here could work all of us under the table when it comes to multi-tasking.
The grass may seem "greener" but it isn't really, what with the real things women have to deal with each and every day. Monthly stuff, boobs getting in the way (we can put ours back in the drawer when we are done), raising children and possibly working to boot not to mention a ton of other things. I seriously doubt that many of us would have the fortitude they do, we mostly enjoy the "glitter" part.
I've gotten quite an education since being here, especially from the perspective of our F T M friends. This has made me take a second look at myself as a man and you know what? It's not that bad really, in fact I feel pretty dang good about being a guy.
The point is, for whatever the reason, I look at this as a gift and try to make the most of it. What it has really taught me is to accept and appreciate everyone for who they are as a person becuse it's the person who counts with me in the end, regardless of gender persuasion.:happy:

Don't care. All I know is that it's who I am! I am Lily regardless of what it says on my I.D.

I have always had feelings like a "girl", feeling pretty,wanting long hair,liking lace and being very compassionate and loving to help people with their problems.So i think their is a genetic or hormanal compenent. I also used to wish I could wear a dress and tights too school,grow my hair to my butt. I was so envious of GG's and their freedom I was close to my mom, but she did not dress me like a girl either, she was supportive when she found out, wich I admire her for..I also like the selection of clothes women have.I love the way a skirt brushes your legs. I love the silky feeling of tights ,pantyhose and langeria I love the way hair caresses your neck or the way your bust looks in a top or dress. I wish i had boobs to get in the way. I also like my male side too. over the years i have intergrated both. I'm not sure why I Cd but I am glad I can feel the way I do.
Sarah

I was meant to be a girl from the get-go,and now I am on my way to becoming one.

Steph

I would probably do well to give up trying to figure it out too. For some reason I can't though.

1 - Hormones in the womb: Sounds plausible to me.

11 - Distant male role model: Also sounds plausible to me. But if this were the only thing, wouldn't a majority of men have gender issues? It's not like distant fathers were uncommon in the last 100 years.

Some combination of the two is my best theory. Perhaps some combination of hormonal influence plus a less available male role model, or more available (or more willing) female role model leads us to identify with women more than men.

8/9 -Jealousy: I think this plays a part for me. As a kid: "If only I was a girl, I could have a close relationship with Mom like my sister does." I also always seem to have many more female than male friends. I'm very close to my friends, but there is still that feeling of being 'outside'. "If I was a woman, I could be a part of that girls club, and be truly as close to them as they are to each other."

Next week, my theories will be completely different though! Go Figure :)

-Christine

Trying to figure out "why" is a very masculine trait. That's what we have to do to fix something.

Women rarely want to fix something, they just want it to work! So, honey, just enjoy your feminine side, and stop worrying about the "why". It's only a waste of time anyway.

Lovies,
Stephenie

I have no idea what my brain looks like, or whether it resembles a GG's brain at all. All I know is what my brain has been telling me for all these years.

There are many theories out there, some which make more sense than others. Longstanding is the nurture v. nature debate. Personally, I subscribe to the latter, though I don't discount that the former could play some role in some situations.

In discussing the "nature" side of the the coin, there's the hormone wash (aka, the hormone bath) which does take place in the womb. We know this hormone wash happens, so it isn't a far reach to think that "if" during this hormone wash there was an over-abundance of female hormones, that would have to effect the developing fetus.

Rather recent medical research (which has a long way to go) shows that a certain specific cluster of cells within the brain in GG's are a certain size (v. what they are in GM's) -- and that in a few CDers studied, the cluster is the same size as in the GG's.

There is a lot of speculation -- and a lot to study to be done. Truth be known, many subscribe to one realm of thought, while others subscribe to another, etc., and we may never know the reasons. Some say socialization, others say CDing often manifests itself at too young an age for that to be correct. In the main, I have my opinions and thoughts, but what I think is most important is that we concentrate on acceptance of ourselves -- and then acceptance by others who are signficant to us. Even those in psychology and medicine are finally saying that accomodation and acceptance is the course of action for CDers. If we accomplish just that much, we will be doing okay!!!!!!!

Umm mother nature's or god greatest mistake, i don't know i've just always felt like i was a girl, its that simple for me no more no less, its not about pushing society to a point of P*@*@*@ them off, or a sexual thing, its just me wanting to align my body and soul, and since SRS isn't an opion, (lack of money) sweet sweet dresses and skirts will have to do, plus with my build its kind of hard to find men's jeans that fit right, women's jean are soo much more comfortable and they fit me better too

There is no (reason or solution) genetics or whatever, will not make a difference. I know it scares the hell out of me, but the drive and compulsive actions are real. Is it really fair to ourselves to repress feelings that (feel right). I for one want both worlds and know it will never work. It's getting to the point tough to hell whatever anyone thinks.

Darla

The problem with these ideas is the concept that gender is an actual thing which can be identified and measured, a switch which can be turned on and off during our time in the womb etc.

But what actually is gender? It is nothing more than a collection of thoughts, feelings and general approach to life. We can compare our individual collection of thoughts and feelings against the artificial social grouping that defines males and females and then find which one best resembles our own collection.

Of course in real life, our thoughts and feelings are being formed and organized during our childhood when we are also being constantly exposed to gender conditioning influences, so we are driven in one direction without ever having the chance to choose for ourselves.

The idea of the hormone wash seems irrelevant to me. At the time when this happens, we only have about 1% of our eventual total brain mass. So unless you believe in a male/female gender switch in the brain that controls everything else, and science has found no such thing, then it does not matter in the slightest whether I was subject to extra estrogen for a couple of days in the womb or not.

My gender is determined by how my entire brain works, all the experiences, feelings and thoughts I have ever had. This is what constitutes me. My gender is not determined autonomously by a few brain cells. That seems like an abdication of responsibility for me being me.

Gender only makes sense by reference to the social roles biological men and women undertake in society. Apart from the sexual experience, all other roles men and women play are entirely dependent upon the rules society makes up for them, hence gender is nothing more than a social construct. Turn these rules upside down then all of a sudden biological females would be masculine and biological males feminine.

A person brought up alone on a desert island would have no idea what gender they were since there would be no social roles to compare against.

Satrana
Whoa, nice post.

I guess this is what my thread is all about. We all have different beliefs that have grown with us on why we are not "normal". My suggestion was that there are so many "reasons" that some of our beliefs must over lap. I'd be curious to know what the most common one would be.

I disagree with your opinion that there is no genetic gender. There has to be to a certain extent. Getting back to basics and looking at gender in animals. Each has a natural role and in most cases this is instinctive. Males behave in one way females another and this is apparent immediatly after birth in some cases.

All of our emotions are created in the brain by hormones and other chemicals. One of the reasons drugs can effect our mood/ emotions/ feelings. Mess with these a we all know some of the results. Why do I feel good dress in a frock? Something in my mind or body must be producing the chemicals to create the feelings.

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Originally Posted by Sarah Plumber

I disagree with your opinion that there is no genetic gender. There has to be to a certain extent. Getting back to basics and looking at gender in animals. Each has a natural role and in most cases this is instinctive. Males behave in one way females another and this is apparent immediatly after birth in some cases.

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True there are natural differences in male and female roles but these all relate to sexual relations and the subsequent raising of offspring. Outside of this, males and females move, eat, sleep and basically exist in exactly the same way. Each species is divided between males and females only because for evolution to work, there must be a mixing of genes ie sex.
If this was not necessary, there would be no division of males and females and thus no difference in behavior between individuals of a species. All differences in appearance and behavior are all rooted in sex.

But we humans think of gender going way beyond the different behavior relating to sex. Our perception of gender is mostly based on complex social roles and conventions, of which the sexual role is just one component.

Outside the sexual role how can you define femininity for example

By who wears skirts - Nope billions of men do that
By who is gentle and peaceful - Nope most men are that
By who is loving and committed - Nope most men are that
By who is nurturing - Nope men have the same nurturing instinct as women.

There is no way to define femininity because men naturally possess all these values. But we all recognize femininity when all these separate values are combined together and packaged into a product which we are conditioned to recognize as feminine. The "total package" changes from society to society, from time to time which means femininity is what society tells you it is and you are conditioned to recognize it as such.

Let me give you an example. I watched a tribe on tv where women's beauty is based upon how scarred she is. There are annual rituals where women approach men carrying long sticks and invite the men to whack them mercilessly until they have huge bleeding scars all over their body. The more scarred a woman is, the more beautiful, desirable and powerful she becomes. Women want to be hit as hard and as often as they can bare it!

How does this notion of beauty and femininity compare to our version in the West? It is the complete opposite of the spotless perfection, gentleness and demur that we believe constitutes femininity. The behavior of these women from that tribe flies in the face of natural roles. It is society's rules that matter at the end of the day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Satrana

The idea of the hormone wash seems irrelevant to me. At the time when this happens, we only have about 1% of our eventual total brain mass. So unless you believe in a male/female gender switch in the brain that controls everything else, and science has found no such thing, then it does not matter in the slightest whether I was subject to extra estrogen for a couple of days in the womb or not.

My gender is determined by how my entire brain works, all the experiences, feelings and thoughts I have ever had. This is what constitutes me. My gender is not determined autonomously by a few brain cells. That seems like an abdication of responsibility for me being me.

Gender only makes sense by reference to the social roles biological men and women undertake in society. Apart from the sexual experience, all other roles men and women play are entirely dependent upon the rules society makes up for them, hence gender is nothing more than a social construct. Turn these rules upside down then all of a sudden biological females would be masculine and biological males feminine.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Satrana

There is no way to define femininity because men naturally possess all these values. But we all recognize femininity when all these separate values are combined together and packaged into a product which we are conditioned to recognize as feminine. The "total package" changes from society to society, from time to time which means femininity is what society tells you it is and you are conditioned to recognize it as such.

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IMO, you are mixing anatomical sexual roles and gender roles. The wash makes sense b/c it occurs in a flood when the clusters of the brain are formed -- and that is a whole lot more than a mere 1%. No medical research suggests that percentage! The wash also makes sense in that it explains the feelings of a dichotomous personna -- complexity v. that which is simplistic. GM's and GG's have distinct differences -- look at the evidence of language use for but one example, or the emerging size of a specific cluster of specialized brain cells. Socialization couldn't play a role in something as complex, regardless of society, time, and era.

Too many of us have the cd'ing dichotomous personality traits at such an early age for socialization and nurture argument to have any influence at all. That is why the current literature on treatment is finally, at long last, reaching the point where treatment is not considered an option, but rather acceptance and accomodation. If you could change this by adapting socialization, such would be a treatment whose efficacy would have been proven a long time ago.

This is great. A proper debate.

Back to the great nature/nurture thing.

I agree that humans have created and exagerated the gender divide. I look back on history when it was the male who wore the make up, lacy clothes, and wigs. OK there was still the gender divide. Woman was considered a second class species which I am glad to see is finally coming to an end in the Western World if not in some of the third world. At least we are taking the lead.
Many men in hot climates wear skirt all of the time, but there's still a difference between them and those worn by woman. I wish so much to have the choise every morning. Skirt or Trousers but thats beside the point.

The reality is probably closer to being amixture of everything. So complex that it will take years to quantify.

I've just thought of a new thread....Lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheri 4242

The wash makes sense b/c it occurs in a flood when the clusters of the brain are formed -- and that is a whole lot more than a mere 1%.

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At the time of the hormone wash around the 12th week, the fetus is only 5 inches long and weighs just over 1 pound. Whether the fetus brain is 1% or 2% of the adult brain is not relevant, the vast majority of men's brains form, with all the unique linkages between the brain cells which control how a person thinks and feels, under the influence of testosterone not estrogen. In fact the entire frontal lobe which makes up half of the human brain does not even form in the womb, it only begins to grow once the baby is born during the first year of its life.

The only way a baby boy could be born with a feminized brain (which only constitutes half of his brain) is if it was exposed constantly to high levels of estrogen throughout the pregnancy, in which case the body would also be affected ie intersexed individuals. A pregnancy lasts 270 days, a few days of elevated estrogen levels can only affect the formation of a small number of brain cells, the vast majority will be formed under the normal hormone dosage both before and after the hormone wash.

And what about the frequent testosterone hormone washes that baby boys experience during their first year outside the womb. How come these are ignored?

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Too many of us have the cd'ing dichotomous personality traits at such an early age for socialization and nurture argument to have any influence at all.

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Not so, babies learn every minute of every day, they are nothing more than learning machines absorbing large amounts of information. Long before a baby starts talking it can already understand language. By the time a child reaches his/her middle childhood (7-12) when the vast majority of CDs report their first crossdressing thoughts, the child is already highly influenced and conditioned by social conventions. Children are little more than miniature adults following the same socialization cues that every adult follows.

If you visit third world countries or watch documentaries on TV you will see children as young as five with the knowledge and maturity that allows them to fend for themselves and understand the adult world. Western societies wrap children up in cotton wool so we get a false appreciation of children's sophistication and maturity. We prevent our children from demonstrating how much they can copy and cope with everyday social issues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarah Plumber

I’m not sure if this has really been done here, I’d guess it has in many ways looking at just about every angle but why are we the way we are? I suppose there are a thousand reasons and everyone of us has a different reason or at least believe they do. The reality is we probably make up our own based upon our experiences and what we have learnt.

Here are mine:

1. I have seen a TV documentary which stated that there was some evidence that gender was set in a certain part and the brain and that Transsexuals brains reassembled that of Genetic Girls. It was thought that it was caused by an overdose of female hormones in the womb. Now if the level of hormones is variable wouldn’t that explain the various levels of Cross dressers through to those who need full SRS. Part time to full time and everything in between?

2. The idea of being different. How many Teen “Cults” are there? Why? Don’t we all want to be considered as an individual and not a sheep?

3. The fun in bucking the “norm”. Fighting what society feels right? Being naughty?

4. The risk of getting caught?

5. The fact that girls have such huge selection of choice that males do not.

6. The grass is greener on the other side?

7. Feminine attire feels so much nicer?

8. Attraction to woman and being jealous that they can look so sexy? Wanting to join in, whereas men are not sexy at all so why would you want to look like one?

9. Being left out of the “secret world of woman”? Wanting to know how it feels, what they get up to?

10. Sexual thrill.

11. Being brought up in a house where the “alpha” male was away a lot of the time. I lived mostly with my Mother and Sister whilst Dad worked away.


Add this lot in different ways and different amounts and I think that’s why I love to dress as a girl.

What does everybody else think? Where do you fit in? Do you agree with my reasons or do you have others?

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I would not say that there are "thousands" of reasons, but around 12- 20 tops.

I agree that #1 is one of the reasons, but far from the primary one. Indeed not all CD is TS or sexually based. #1 would apply to "fem siders" who dress to "become who they really are" as well as full blown TSs

#2 is a new one on me, I had not considered, while 3 and 4 I categorize as "thrill seeking" via "taboo tripping" That causes a "rush" in the brain when one gets away with it.

5 6, 7 and 9 are basically what I call "curiosity"---and can be what might initially induce one to CD---and later discover other benifits and reasons to continue. 8 is a rather weak one, I have doubts about.

10 is related to clothing fetishes and also "humiliation"S/M and such fantasies, both non-TS reasons for CD, while 11 is "questionable" and might only provide a conducive "environment" for CD if one decided to do so.

You have missed ESCAPISIM, which may describe almost half of all CD reasons. While "fem siders" may CD to come TO their "real selves" Some of us CD to temporally ""ESCAPE" our own selves for a while. This detaches us from our nornal identity and psychologically makes us someone else. CDing, dressing as the opposite sex, intensifies the breakoff, and also lets us escape from the responsibilities and obligations of "Manhood" as well as personal ones.--Its very relaxing, and de-stressing.

They say the reason lies in the womb.

This outa be interesting when the time will come when you can pick out the gender of your children.

Wonder if TEST TUBE BABIES can have the same symptoms????
More concepts to the question.
Tamera

Well I subscribe to the alien abduction theory.. (Don't bother googleing it.. Its a new one!! :) ). All of our mothers were abducted into UFOs and stuck with big needles right into our tiney weene little heads and implanted with a small device that reacts to TV (pun intended) remote controls.. It was all part of a scheme to take over the world or the BBC or something......

But what happened was they little remote control thingys kept picking up signals from "The Doris Day show" , June Clever, Opra, Victoria Secret comercials and Barbie comercials... So we were imprinted with all things fem.. Hence the "K Sara Sara" songs playing in my head right now!! Hehe

And that's about as plausable as any other theory out there IMHO..... The only way to prove something is with clinical tests.. I can see it not "Wanted pregnant mothers for gender disruption tests". Pays a minimum of $500 plus much much more.. If your son turns out to be a crossdresser you will also receive a new pink blanket and booties, and a life times supply of panties... that will keep those pantie threads going for sure.. Lol

So who cares... We are what we are and we like what we like.. Give it up and just go with it and don't look back...

Karren

Nice one Karen:heehee:

In many parts of the world there is a belief that if mothers stare long enough at a certain person while pregnant then their child will end up looking like that person.

I will never forgive my mom. She must have spent too much time chatting to that old, hideous, wart infested hag next door. If only my dad had hung a big poster of Marilyn Monroe on the wall, I could have turned out so much better....:devil: