Sexual Perception

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. My introduction to, and interest in CD's started by accident in college with my then b/f. He had never done it before either and for me at that time it was all about sex. I don't have the experience of a long term marriage so my perspective is different and I may not know what I am talking about.

So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

I hope I can say this clearly. I've heard many of you say you are worried you are gay because you dress. Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD. She can be completely heterosexual and still be attracted to a man wearing a dress, but it raises questions. But maybe she is homophobic and will never be able to accept your dressing.

Hey, wow, a bunch of questions...

The first time anyone knew about my dressing, was after I broke up with my SO, and she found out by accident. So our discussions have not been of a sexual nature...sorry!

There is a wide variety of reasons for each person to dressup or act in the opposite gender. I think for many it is a changing thing as well. Over time you evolve the "why's" as you experience more as well as learn more about yourself. For me, my sexuality has never really changed. Dressing has no effect on it. In fact, to a large degree they are separate. That is not to say that dressing is not a sexually charged thing for me, it is. Rather I mean that my dressing came about after my sexuality was pretty well set in stone.

Although it is not the standard view, I believe that sexuality is a more mutable thing than most realize. Many people change their minds over time about what and who they are attracted to. Often, a significant event triggers the realization that they are attracted to a thing, a type of person or a gender that previously they would not have given a nod to. Several of these events over a life time and bada-bing, you suddenly have a person who is more wide ranging in who they are attracted to and why. If you look at the stated sexuality of "swingers" over the age of about 40, you'll find a very high number of bisexually friendly people. They didn't know that till they were in situations where it was accepted.

So, I think it is true that if you were in a long term relationship, and your spouse suddenly told you of their gender bending, that you might find yourself attracted to that "bent gender" presentation of the person you love. Even though you may not have had bi-sexual leanings before. How often that works that way, shooooot... I've no idea.

The most common worry, on both sides, seems to be this "are you gay" thing. It may be because I'm a black and white photographer, but I see the world in shades of grey most of the time. Even (especially) with respect to sexuality. I do not think there are many people who are strictly strait or gay. I believe most people are on a continuum between the two. Whether they ever act on that, depends, probably not. But it seems to me that if I am even close to right, then if there is a change in sexuality due to dressing, it is not likely such a great shift as strait --> gay. Much more likely the person has just tapped into the bisexual side of their personality that has been underneath and unknown.

Anyhow ... just some thoughts...

Charlene

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Originally Posted by Paige.

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. My introduction to, and interest in CD's started by accident in college with my then b/f. He had never done it before either and for me at that time it was all about sex. I don't have the experience of a long term marriage so my perspective is different and I may not know what I am talking about.

So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

I hope I can say this clearly. I've heard many of you say you are worried you are gay because you dress. Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD. She can be completely heterosexual and still be attracted to a man wearing a dress, but it raises questions. But maybe she is homophobic and will never be able to accept your dressing.

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My wife did have some nagging doubts about my sexuality though she truly knows now that when I dress I am basically a guy in a dress. I even only picked a female account name here because it's more or less the convention, although I feel like I do have a strong feminine side.

She does have a few bisexual leanings too, and I don't know whether these come into her opinion of my dressing.

Since reading articles about crossdressing, she's become understanding and supportive, she was always open minded and she knows it's not a threat to our marriage. In fact I believe it's stronger because I can be who I want to be with her and she knows that I know she accepts it.

This is an excellent point, but I'm going to counter with "Fear of what?" I'd pose that question to both sides, CD and SO.

Reading through many of the posts here I've come across the phrase "...but I'm 100% straight" or variations of it many times. OK, fine. But when saying that, it sometimes seems like a case of "he doth protest too much". It sounds as though one is trying very hard to convince everyone else as well as him/herself.

And that brings up another question - is it really so awful to discover latent bisexuality? If you are a man who is not sexually attracted to men or a woman who is not sexually attracted to women, great! But why is it such a monumental disaster if you find that you are sexually attracted to the same sex or that your SO is?

It just seems more than a little hypocritical to be homophobic in a subset of the GLBT community.

my so has some issues with whether shes bi or not, and thanks to me they have come to the surface, she didn't react negatively when i told her upfront before we started seriously dating, we just set some limits and went from there and she is discovering more about herself everyday which is a wonderful thing. Now my ex-wife however thought that by ne being a cd that meant she had to be bi and refused to accept it. we had various issues and arguments over that fact and now shes my ex due to her cheating on me, but according to her it was me being a cd that did the marriage in, once again i was upfront with her when we first met and after 11 years she said she couldn't deal with it any more.

If u have not been married, it may be difficult to understand the answers to your questions. I've been married and divorced. Every marriage, every relationship, for that matter, is in some ways, different. But, here's how they work, generally.

1. 2 people get to like and r attracted to each other. Times goes by, and she gets pregnant. NO WAIT! That's not supposed to be in there!
Time goes by, and they decide to get married. The "honeymoon" phase lasts about 3 years, ( or until the baby arrives).

2. Then, each partner attains a role in the relationship. It is understood and accepted by each partner, as to what each of their roles is.

3. More time goes by. Altho the roles for each partner have been set long ago, each partner in the relationship has, or wants, change. Either thru growth, maturation, and/or finding out who they REALLY r! Or thru all of them.

4. S--- hits the fan stage of the relationship. Feeling bored, trapped, or simply resenting their partner, one of them usually wants to make dramatic changes in their life. The other partner initially blames that partner for wanting to "change the rules" of the relationship. When in many cases, that same partner has been pushing their partner in ways that caused the blow up to happen!

5. Three things can happen next:
a. They try compromises that they hope will work for both parties.
b. One partner is blamed, but they pretend nothing happened.
c. They decide it's time to break up and go their separate ways. (Which happens with over 50% of the couples that try a. and b. first, anyway.)



That's the complicated part. The SIMPLE PART is that the "blow up" can be blamed on CDing, bi-sexuality, money problems, cheating, lying, drinking, drugs, etc. Whatever, they WILL usually happen!

But it's really the nature of many people to do some things; at the wrong time, for the wrong reason, and with the wrong people. Also, it's in their nature to change their attitudes, desires, and likes and dislikes, as they grow and mature. It just isn't natural for two people to live together for their entire lives!

Jeez, I guess u hit a nerve! Sorry!:o

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

If u have not been married, it may be difficult to understand the answers to your questions. I've been married and divorced. Every marriage, every relationship, for that matter, is in some ways, different. But, here's how they work, generally.

1. 2 people get to like and r attracted to each other. Times goes by, and she gets pregnant. NO WAIT! That's not supposed to be in there!
Time goes by, and they decide to get married. The "honeymoon" phase lasts about 3 years, ( or until the baby arrives).

2. Then, each partner attains a role in the relationship. It is understood and accepted by each partner, as to what each of their roles is.

3. More time goes by. Altho the roles for each partner have been set long ago, each partner in the relationship has, or wants, change. Either thru growth, maturation, and/or finding out who they REALLY r! Or thru all of them.

4. S--- hits the fan stage of the relationship. Feeling bored, trapped, or simply resenting their partner, one of them usually wants to make dramatic changes in their life. The other partner initially blames that partner for wanting to "change the rules" of the relationship. When in many cases, that same partner has been pushing their partner in ways that caused the blow up to happen!

5. Three things can happen next:
a. They try compromises that they hope will work for both parties.
b. One partner is blamed, but they pretend nothing happened.
c. They decide it's time to break up and go their separate ways. (Which happens with over 50% of the couples that try a. and b. first, anyway.)



That's the complicated part. The SIMPLE PART is that the "blow up" can be blamed on CDing, bi-sexuality, money problems, cheating, lying, drinking, drugs, etc. Whatever, they WILL usually happen!

But it's really the nature of many people to do some things; at the wrong time, for the wrong reason, and with the wrong people. Also, it's in their nature to change their attitudes, desires, and likes and dislikes, as they grow and mature. It just isn't natural for two people to live together for their entire lives!

Jeez, I guess u hit a nerve! Sorry!:o

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very true in so many ways, and its sad when a seemingly good relationship goes south due to each one blaming the other. however crossdressing is a major cause of a lot of breakups due to the woman notbeing able to handle it or the cd pushing the limits to quick.(can you tell I'm dating a professional woman?)

I find this to be a very good point of disscussion. While I realize we as cd's have a problem with addresing our own sexual leanings I had never really given much thought to the feelings of the women we meet. This may be because I usually date bi-sexual women thereby negating these problems and giving me someone who will understand me. I also have never been married
(so maybe I don't understand these problems) but I have been engaged and she was very supporting so I think the best think to do is to be honest about your feelings and try to understand hers as well. As for docrobbysherry's comment "It just isn't natural for two people to live together for their entire lives!" I have to disagree. I am currently looking for exactly that, someone to share the rest of my life with. You may think I live in a fantasy world but I like to belive the best of people and think we could all do better if we chose to believe the best in everyone. So welcome to my world make a right at the rainbow and keep going till you hear the angels.

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Originally Posted by Paige.

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

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I have no SO at the moment and no previous one knew about this side of me.

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Originally Posted by Paige.

I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. My introduction to, and interest in CD's started by accident in college with my then b/f. He had never done it before either and for me at that time it was all about sex. I don't have the experience of a long term marriage so my perspective is different and I may not know what I am talking about.

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That you express an interest in this without the usual attitude is refreshing to read.

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Originally Posted by Paige.

So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

I hope I can say this clearly. I've heard many of you say you are worried you are gay because you dress. Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD. She can be completely heterosexual and still be attracted to a man wearing a dress, but it raises questions. But maybe she is homophobic and will never be able to accept your dressing.

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I have read the threads of various CDers who have wives and where there have been these problems for them. I have wondered how I would approach this situation with another SO in my life and at the moment am not sure. I do think part of the problem is that women are afraid that a CDing husband or boyfriend would become too concerned with their feminine side and either not as concerned about them or they are buying into the societal ignorance on this matter that Cders must be gay.

I have my own rather undigested view on the matter and it is that there is too much masculinity to society since the "women's movement" basically made it sound as women were worthless who did not try and be like men. (They never came out and said it that way per se but the implications could not be more obvious.) And when women try to be more masculine, there is a yin and yang effect at work: the scale basically needing balance and men seeing women able to quench their "masculine" side so readily wonder why they cannot quench their "feminine" side. I cannot explain why it is that I see a gorgeous woman and have thought both of being with her and of being her...it just is what it is and I wonder if there is not some kind of yin and yang answer to it.

Having noted that, your hypothesis is an interesting one...I have never thought of this question from the angle you present...will have to mull it over further as well as the question as to why there are not more women like you around.

I'm bisexual, so the idea of being intimate with anyone masculine or feminine is not an issue. But I would imagine it is for a straight woman. I posted a thread called "Lesbian Fantasies" and it was an attempt to get some MtF cders understand that a straight woman may not find a feminine presenting partner all that sexually attractive. Just a bit of insight, ya know?

But you make a great point that it could raise homophobic issues within their partners. Just curious if that's a common problem... I doubt though that many would admit to it openly.

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Originally Posted by Cayce

This is an excellent point, but I'm going to counter with "Fear of what?" I'd pose that question to both sides, CD and SO....

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I agree Cayce. It seems ridiculous that even suggesting bisexual or homophobic thoughts are received with not only a great deal of protest but bordering on disgust as well. Its something I don't quite grasp. Why is it such a "horrible" thought to them? So what if you were? So what if you weren't? Does it change who you are? No, if anything, it would at least set you a bit more freer in knowing yourself all that much better. But for those of us in the category of "that" sexuality, it is very insulting to have it referred to as if they would rather be outed as a cd to the world than even hinted at being bi/gay.

Not sure if my opinion matters, but here's how I feel...

...as long as he doesn't actually have a vagina, then I'm not a lesbian (even though I play one on TV).

Thank you all for sharing such insightful thoughts on the matter. As I am new here and just starting down this road with my sweetie I really appreciate this type of discussion. I guess for me as long as he still has the dangly part tucked somewhere safe I am OK with not thinking of being a lesbian. BTW whats wrong with being a lesbian any way? I have a girl friend who is one and she has told us "Hetro" girls that there is nothing like another soft body to cuddle on a cold night. She also said that in her relationship she does not have to explain why the toilet seat is to be left down and why it takes a little more time for her to get ready to go out than a man. More food for thought.

Interesting. I find that my need to crossdress disappears when I'm in a relationship, so it never becomes an issue. This is perhaps due to the fact that my crossdressing is such a tiny part of who I am and that because my attention is focused on my relationship, Andrea effectively gets the ax.

I've never had any doubt as to my sexual orientation, but you raise an excellent point vis-a-vis the woman's point of view in a relationship in which the man is actively corssdressing or wishes to crossdress openly. I suppose in these scenarios it is on the one had competing with the "other woman" or raising questions about sexual fantasies that challenge one's notion of "straight" and "homosexual."

Paige,

I think there is a bit of hypocrisy about the "being straight" statement. This is only a hunch, based on communicating with a lot of CD's - which I guess you could call empirical evidence - but my experience is somewhat limited in this regard.

To explain, I think that a lot of CD's who say that they are heterosexual are in fact attracted to other CD's when dressed up, but they either a) do not admit that they like same sex partners when that partner is dressed up, or b) do not consider that being atttracted to a CD constitutes same sex attraction.

To compound the problem, a lot of CD's say that they are heterosexual when in drab, but have a different opinion when dressed up, suggesting a dual-personality, or a lack of self-understanding. Oh boy, what was the question again?

I told my girlfriend that I'm predominantly attracted to women, but that I can also be attracted to men that dress as women. What does that make me?

I dunno.

P.S. Totally agree with your comment about looking at things from your SO's perspective, and how she may have to face her own fears.

I have been a part of many relationships where I had to tell my SO that I like to wear undies of the opposite sex. I have had a wonderful lady come out and tell me she was bi-sexual after finding out about my dressing. She had no problem telling me and I could sense no fear in her when she told me. She was as direct and to the point as I when I revealed my love for women's undies. I'm a straight man. This was GOOD news..... I'll just stop there.

I have to agree that GG have real fears too and it's not always as easy for them to deal with those fears as my ex. I have always tried to put myself in their shoes while dating. From my experiences, most women will do their best to try and understand the dressing, but for most, they "just don't get it" as I have been told on so many occasions. I have had some incredibly wonderful GGs pass on me because of something something so trivial as wearing another genders underwear.

I guess in closing, thinking rationally, if a woman is attracted to a dresser, she's attracted to a man in a skirt, not a woman. A good portion of the dressers have no desire to be a woman. It's just something that brings us pleasure and comfort.

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Originally Posted by Andrea M. Forbes

Interesting. I find that my need to crossdress disappears when I'm in a relationship, so it never becomes an issue. This is perhaps due to the fact that my crossdressing is such a tiny part of who I am and that because my attention is focused on my relationship, Andrea effectively gets the ax.

I've never had any doubt as to my sexual orientation, but you raise an excellent point vis-a-vis the woman's point of view in a relationship in which the man is actively corssdressing or wishes to crossdress openly. I suppose in these scenarios it is on the one had competing with the "other woman" or raising questions about sexual fantasies that challenge one's notion of "straight" and "homosexual."

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Andrea, the same thing seems to happen in my life to, how ever my so told me as recently as yesterday that being a cd is part of who i am inside and she will not allow me to suppress it, which is sweet of her, but there also had to be some limits until she worked out her issues with feeling bi-sexual. that sounded fair to me and refreshing that i finally have someone as understanding as she is.

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Originally Posted by Andrea M. Forbes

I've never had any doubt as to my sexual orientation, but you raise an excellent point vis-a-vis the woman's point of view in a relationship in which the man is actively corssdressing or wishes to crossdress openly. I suppose in these scenarios it is on the one had competing with the "other woman" or raising questions about sexual fantasies that challenge one's notion of "straight" and "homosexual."

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I believe you've gotten to the heart of most GG's fears. That, and waiting for the next shoe to drop!

" Want to go to that weird club and double date with Fred and Harry?"

Or, some similar worry, going on in her mind!

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I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons.

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Or simply realize she just isn't attracted to the feminine form, or more particularly, your attempt at achieving it.

I've often thought that if my SO was turned on by being a Drag King, how would I deal with that? I know I wouldn't like the image when I was trying to get into the mood, because I'm not at all sexually attracted to men.

However, if she got wildly excited by dressing that way, I'm sure I could get into it. But -- like with so many GG SO's -- it's not what I'd want to do all the time and I would definitely have my limits.

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Originally Posted by Paige.

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

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That was the first thing that she said to me after I came out 4 years into our relationship. She has never taken the opportunity to explore her bisexuality before. So, it is something of a perk in our relationship. Often, she encourages me to wear fem things and helps me explore my gender issues. So far, it has been a hugely positive thing for us. She feels a much deeper connection to me, and I feel more at ease and trusting of her.

We are both 20-somethings and fairly progressive thinkers. I bet that the younger generations are going to be even more open minded. As these things (tg and cd) become more socially accepted it will become less of an issue. Girls now-a-days don't have the expectation that they will find a manly man and be supported. That gives us the opportunity to break out of the mold and be less of the man's man.

I personally don't experience the bigender split personalities. I never developed a hidden persona. I never took on a second name. That may be part of what some SO gg's have a problem with. It seems a bit like a mental imbalance, and may scare some people.

I always felt and acted fem, and while I did take a bit of flack over it... it wasn't such that I separated it from myself. I think that if the times were different I might have had no other choice. So, I am androgyne (both masc and fem at the same time) by nature... in my actions, speech, and dress. So, even when I cd it is generally pretty androgynous and not drag-queeny. Interestingly, my gg gf really would like me to dress up more. I'm sure I will in time. I'm waiting until my hair gets a bit longer. I'm trying to be/find myself in this.. not play a fantasy character.

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Originally Posted by Paige.

Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women.

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If I were attracted to women I think I would hold my head up high and be proudly out of the closet. I can even see myself being militant about it. But, I am heterosexual and do not want to be perceived as being lesbian. It is not who I am.

I am not at all concerned about being sexually attracted to my partner when she is en femme. I think of it as melting the gender boundaries.

You do raise an interesting point. I wonder if there are as many homophobic GGs as there are homophobic GMs.

Seeing my sweeties bottom in panties for the first time and liking what I saw has got me thinking just how far before the attraction stops.

Paige, you raise a very good point about the feared sexual attraction from some of the females out there. I have heard GGs friends make that point to me. They are perfectly fine to have a friend who is transgendered or a crossdresser, so long as it is not their boyfriend, or husband, or their man as some have said to me. There is another fear that I have heard from some GGs, one of them was my ex. wife. They feel it is a threat to their femininity, it breaks my heart to hear that, because that is not my intention, I feel bad for the GGs who struggle with that. Paige I admire you and am glad that you are a part of our community. We love to hear your insights.
:love: Vivian

I have been married, divorced, married, divorced and now married. Wives 2 & 3 stumbled onto me cd'ing. Wife #1 didn't know. After being discovered cd'ing both wives 2 & 3 revealed to me playing a masculine role in previous relationships. Each of them were accepting of my cd'ing. They each were able to intimate with me En Femme and have assisted me in my femme appearance.

This is the converse of what Paige was discussing. An accepting SO having some masculine tendencies, as opposed to an unaccepting wife leaning toward being homophobic.

This is a very interesting topic for discussion and thought.

Fanci

When I think of sexual orientation, I always remember the Kinsey Scale, which tracks preferences over a continuum rather than just putting everyone in straight-bi-gay categories:

Rating Description
0 Exclusively heterosexual
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 Equally heterosexual and homosexual
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6 Exclusively homosexual


The large majority of people do not fall at the far end of the spectrum but somewhere in between. And I suspect that the longer you live and the more experiences you have, the more you realize this.

I'm sure SO's of those in the TG community are often in situations where they have to think about their sexuality more than they might otherwise and being a CDer I've certainly thought I lot about this as well. Yet, after a decent amount of exploration, I've come to realize that I really only like GG's even though I still wouldn't put myself as '0' on the Kinsey Scale.

Paige,

Great post, and topic. Also, thanks Malibu for posting the Kinsey scale. I wonder what the results might be if asked of us when we're 1. In Drab 2. In Drag, and GG SOs some of us have when: 3. They're with us in Drab. 4. They're with us in Drag.

I've had this discussion with my SO, and I don't believe that she feels her opinion wavers, but who knows for sure.