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Originally Posted by
racquel937
Whether or not that's the intent of the legislation, that's the result.
How so? Isn't it just like adding an additional punishment for an additional crime? That is done plenty with other things. A person can be charged with Carjacking AND murder. So why then is this not the same as that?
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It "inflicts harm" on the entire community? We're talking about murder here. Murder always scares the community it happened in. Sure, deliberately inciting fear in a community is terrible, but does it make murder twice as bad? Does it make murder ten times as bad? Is scaring people really worse than killing them?
The penalty sure isn't twice as much or ten times as much. And yes it does inflict harm on the entire community. When the guy who ran the Mr Whippy icecream store killed his wife the whole community was upset. When the war veteran was decapitated in my town everyone was scared and nervous because the killer was still at large. But when racist violence occured a portion of the community was downright terrified because they all knew that they might be the next victims. This is clearly distinctly different!
You see hate-crime, whether grafiti or assault or rape or murder involves propagating a threat to an entire group. Thats very different from people becoming scared that someone they bought a raspberry slushie from knifed his wife because that just reminds them that violence can occur to everyone, it is not a specific threat to them, but hate-crime is a specific threat to the entire group targeted.
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Look at three hypothetical killers. One murdered a gay black guy and witnesses think he was angry at all gays and black people. One murdered a cop. One murdered a suburban white guy.
Sure, I love hypotheticals, they are very useful tools of reasoning.
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Mr. Hate Crime will get a life sentence.
Often, especially if the victim is trans, the killer will be acquited! Check out the Trans Panic and Gay Panic defences for example. If not acquited the charge is often dropped to manslaughter! Recent cases involved a Transwoman shot from a short distance while running away according to forensics but the jury bought the scenario that the killer fired in self defence at point blank range ignoring the evidence, and where the jury bought that a transwoman having been robbed would then throttle herself in auto-erotic asphyxiation because all TGs are kinky and then somehow covered herself in a sheet to hifde her own dead body!
Hardly life sentences are they! hardly equal treatment is it? No! It is not!
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Mr. Cop Killer will get the death penalty.
I certainly agree with you that there is no reason I have heard for cop-killers to be treated as worse than normal murderers. There may be a good argument for this but I have not heard one nor can I think of one at the moment.
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The guy who murdered the straight white guy is going to get 10 years in prison and that will be reduced to 8 if he doesn't kill another person in prison.
He will usually get more than the murderers of TG peole get. Look at the cases and show me that there is a real practical injustice regarding hate crimes and TG!
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Regardless of the motivation of these laws, the result is that cops, minorities, and gays lives are now worth more than other people.
Not so. Firstly one utter failure in the argument is that one measures worth by the penalty accorded. Instead it would be more accurate to state that it is the greater problem that should get the greater recourse. White mens lives are more valued because they dont have to get the extra protection as they are murderd less often!
Consider that! It is a measure of how little minorities lives are valued when their dissproportionate risk of being murdered neccessitates applying additional attempts to gain equal justice or additional deterrant!
So in fact your argument that white mens lives are worth less in actual fact can be used to argue that they are worth more!
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A black guy in New York got a life sentence (well, he's scheduled for release in 2247) for not even killing anybody. He took some hostages and sprayed kerosene on them and said, "White people are going to burn tonight!" The man was obviously insane,
Obviously insane? How do you know he was insane? What appears obvious is not always so.
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and a few years ago he would've spent no time in jail because he's crazy and didn't actually hurt anyone, but now he's a "terrorist" guilty of a hate crime and he gets life in prison.
If he is mentally ill and the system does not adequately take that into account then the law regarding insanity is what is needed to be reformed. Also those people being kidnapped were still hurt even if they were not killed, maimed etc.
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See? Even if you take murder out of the equation entirely, hate crimes are treated as worse than murder. Frightening gay people is worse than murdering straight people. It's stupid.
Your example involved smeone kidnapping, a serious crime, threatening to kill a number of people and making preperations using flamable materials to do so. That's attempted multiple murders. That isn't just 'frightening gay people', thats attempted multiple murder!
Can you show me where a case of just 'frightening gay people' resulted in a dissproportionate sentencing? Because spraying a group of kidnapped people with flamamble liquid and threatening to burn them is kidnapping + death threats + attempted murder on multiple counts!
And even if he didn't go to jail in the past he clearly should have been locked up in a secure mental health facility for the violent mentally ill untill it could be determined that he was no longer a threat to the community which also may have been a life term!
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I go to a college in Dayton. In the past month, there have been five incidents during which 2 to 5 black males robbed people at gunpoint in dorms on campus. There is very little fuss being made about this. But guess what made a ton of news!
Oelman Hall is the math building. So, some ignorant 19-year-old nerd was taking a crap and got bored and wrote stupid stuff on the restroom wall. Now we all have to live in fear? I think not. I'm not worried about the guy drawing swastikas. I'm worried about the roving band of gangsters with Glocks on campus.
So your issue is with what is being reported in the news?
Because I'd be very surprised if one count of hate-grafitti is punished more than multiple robbery with a deadly weapon.
And making threats to harm people is a crime. When its against a single individual it hurts that one person. When it's against a group of a hundred it is a hundred counts, a hundred times the single threat.
If your upset that a serious crime is not being properly investigated then you may have a good point there. But that does not mean that the other crime should not be. Also if one investigatio is going on quietly and another is calling on public assitance that does not mean that only the public one is real.
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Yeah ... I've had some relatively minor run-ins with the legal system. They love to charge you with 15 things just to see what sticks.
And often people commit more than one crime at once. Often people break more than one law over their lifetime too.
