Too Old?

Of all the reasons I read for not transitioning, being too old is the one that puzzles me the most. I half-jokingly said I was too old for transition to my therapist once. She laughed and dismissed it out of hand. My own expression of age was really one of embarrassment at that point. I felt a ridiculous figure sitting there presenting as a middle-aged male talking about femininity.

Too old is a sentiment that is posted frequently on the forum. I've read from those in their seventies ... and from those still in their teens! I don't understand it, considering age in itself. One might have health issues that prevent hormones or surgeries, appearance concerns affecting passability, family obligations that take precedence - any number of things around which rationales or excuses (take your pick) may be constructed. but age itself?

Does anyone really think age is an issue for themselves? Or are you using it as a shorthand term to refer to other issues?

I consider myself "too old" to transition. That said, I also do not have the absolute need to transition-age may be a factor here too. A transition would pretty much mean starting over, and at 66 that's a daunting prospect; surgery at that age is not an inviting prospect. I can self-identify as transgender and cross dress so that is the compromise I have to make. My wife is OK with this, transition would not go well with her and I love her. Life is all a series of compromises and the trick to happiness is to find the optimum ones for your situation.

Hugs,
Sandra1746

I don't think you can ever really be to old to transition if you need to.

I do wish I could have transition when I was younger. But I didn't so I will take what I can get now and make the best use of the time I do have left in life.

Here is the absolute truth.

You are never too old. The OP is right. We hear this excuse from all ages from the twenties to the seventies. Too old? Ridiculous! It's only another excuse, just as lame as all the other excuses.

S

Sandra
If being too old is not the issue, its not the issue.....i think what lea is talking about is "needing to " transition, and feeling (or using the excuse) that your age precludes it..
if you don't need to transition in your mind, then compromise is a viable option...one of the reasons i think i end up being ok with TS being a "disorder" is because we tend to suffer from this overwhelming need that makes compromise impossible..its very suffocating and frustrating...it sure seems clinically valid to me...we literally CANT NOT transition, or we start to feel like dying... if you don't feel this way, you are lucky!

For me Lea, the single most impactful thought i ever had was over my age and my mortality.. it was the thought that i would 60 or 70 or 80 , on my deathbed or on the beach, and i would just "know" all of a sudden that i wasted my entire life, that i would deeply regret not living as myself, that i had gifted my life away out of fear and lack of courage, with nothing to show for it other than a bitter understanding that i had lived an unauthentic worthless life...and that i would know there was absolutely nothing i could ever ever ever do about it....YIKES!!!!!!!!!

that was the turning point for me... so my answer to everyone is you are not too old... and don't get caught up in surgery...yes the surgery is amazing and helpful, but its not neccessary...older women are commonly hormone challenged...if you are older, you will pass much easier...if you have no hair, i understand that is daunting issue..but lots of older women wear wigs...and a good wig will go unnoticed , and the only problem will be comfort...

if you are retired, you have no work issues..your kids are likely grown up..etc..

what would you get out of a no surgery, no HRT transition?
...you'd get the incredible feeling of doing something that felt like YOU for the first time in your life...and you'd get it every day..
when i felt this for the first time, there was no concept of turning back..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandra1746

I consider myself "too old" to transition. That said, I also do not have the absolute need to transition-age may be a factor here too. A transition would pretty much mean starting over, and at 66 that's a daunting prospect; surgery at that age is not an inviting prospect. I can self-identify as transgender and cross dress so that is the compromise I have to make. My wife is OK with this, transition would not go well with her and I love her. Life is all a series of compromises and the trick to happiness is to find the optimum ones for your situation.

---

I agree with all of this except the starting over part, at least for someone who feels compelled to transition. There are two aspects to starting over. One is the transition itself, and that's no different at 60 than 30, in my opinion. The other is the notion of investment, that one has invested too much in the current life to risk. There one has to ask about the wisdom of hanging on to something that one knows is false and a source of pain. I.e., a bad investment.

Wow, you all have the answer. The thing is that some of us are comfortable with not having complete SRS and at our age we really don't see the advantage to spending thousands of dollars and basically not doing anything more than we are doing now. OK so maybe it isn't just age. However, in our minds we are what we are. Having your body altered may or may not bring us the full happiness we are after.

Not every TS NEEDS to have things altered especially at an age when things like joints, hearts, kidneys etc are more important to survival. Since we all have our own reasons for having or not having SRS surgery,m I find it really impertinent for people to say it is an excuse. Maybe it would make yo all happier if we just said "I don't want the damn surgery!" but then we get the really nice TS's who tell us we aren't TS. That we are wanna be's or fakes or part timers.

I am at the age where I do not see an advantage to having the surgery. Thus in my mind and heart I am "too old". I am not a physical or metabolic risk to not have surgery but there are a few out there who may be. But I don't see how it will change how I live or what I do. I am beyond looking for a mate, having a family, I can do things that make it appear that I am female without the surgery. Even though I appear younger (by at least 10 years) when I am totally made up I don't really care. Many of us have the mind set that even after surgery we would most likely dress as we do daily (I know there are many here who believe that they would dress like prom queens every day but we know that doesn't happen). So why do I need to have surgery to wear jeans and a top?

I am beyond the age where hormones will do a whole lot to change me. My hips won't spread, my shoulders won't decrease, my breast may gain a half a cup. I would look pretty strange with perky breasts and an old body. Do they do surgery that will make my breasts look like a 55 year old woman? Probably not so I will keep what I have.

I have great respect for those who have or are going to have SRS in any manner. However some of us just do not see the reason the spend that kind of money for what little time we may have here. If you cannot respect the fact that there are a few of us who see age as a reason to not have surgery, then you really have a narrow mind. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it

Lea,

If someone is using age as an excuse not to transition they were never supposed to transition to begin with.
I'm using transitioning in the social sense. Full time living, 24-7.

Most use the age card as a crutch concerning being too old but I've seen quite a few that were under the age of twenty use it as an excuse as well.
" I have plenty of time " they say.

No you don't.

Time will catch all of us by surprise.
To quote Pink Floyd from the song " Time " " Shorter of breath and one day closer to death. "

With each passing second life leaves us never to return and those with excuses will die with them.



Julia

Wow ! Thanks Lori, you said everything I wanted to say ....only much better ....again thanks !

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

I have great respect for those who have or are going to have SRS in any manner. However some of us just do not see the reason the spend that kind of money for what little time we may have here. If you cannot respect the fact that there are a few of us who see age as a reason to not have surgery, then you really have a narrow mind. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it

---

Most of what you've described isn't truly age. Your response is also strongly focused on surgery and, to a lesser extent, hormones. I can understand that, as I mentioned them in the OP itself, but neither are necessary for transition.

In writing this, I realize how strongly I feel about social transition vs. all the rest. To me, the barrier IS social transition. After all, it's possible to undergo SRS and take hormones without ever living as a woman. HRT and SRS may convey considerable benefit - or not, depending on your goals, something you've illustrated very well. I recently wrote to someone that SRS was an affirmation of what they had already become. That is how I would regard itself for myself as well, best case.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Wow, you all have the answer. The thing is that some of us are comfortable with not having complete SRS and at our age we really don't see the advantage to spending thousands of dollars and basically not doing anything more than we are doing now. OK so maybe it isn't just age. However, in our minds we are what we are. Having your body altered may or may not bring us the full happiness we are after.

Not every TS NEEDS to have things altered especially at an age when things like joints, hearts, kidneys etc are more important to survival. Since we all have our own reasons for having or not having SRS surgery,m I find it really impertinent for people to say it is an excuse. Maybe it would make yo all happier if we just said "I don't want the damn surgery!" but then we get the really nice TS's who tell us we aren't TS. That we are wanna be's or fakes or part timers.

I am at the age where I do not see an advantage to having the surgery. Thus in my mind and heart I am "too old". I am not a physical or metabolic risk to not have surgery but there are a few out there who may be. But I don't see how it will change how I live or what I do. I am beyond looking for a mate, having a family, I can do things that make it appear that I am female without the surgery. Even though I appear younger (by at least 10 years) when I am totally made up I don't really care. Many of us have the mind set that even after surgery we would most likely dress as we do daily (I know there are many here who believe that they would dress like prom queens every day but we know that doesn't happen). So why do I need to have surgery to wear jeans and a top?

I am beyond the age where hormones will do a whole lot to change me. My hips won't spread, my shoulders won't decrease, my breast may gain a half a cup. I would look pretty strange with perky breasts and an old body. Do they do surgery that will make my breasts look like a 55 year old woman? Probably not so I will keep what I have.

I have great respect for those who have or are going to have SRS in any manner. However some of us just do not see the reason the spend that kind of money for what little time we may have here. If you cannot respect the fact that there are a few of us who see age as a reason to not have surgery, then you really have a narrow mind. That's my excuse and I am sticking to it

---

I think you made an assumption that you need to have SRS to transition... this is a false assumption. Transitioning is living your life as yourself. That doesn't REQUIRE that you undergo HRT or have any surgeries.


But regardless, the sole point of getting SRS is not so you can run around and use your new vagina everywhere. My BF doesn't have a penis... if I get SRS, it's not for sex... it's because I hate what I have and want to get rid of it. So even if I was 60, I would still probably want to get SRS. But that's just me.

But like has been said... excuses excuses excuses. You either need to transition or you don't. People will point the blame at anything but themselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

I think you made an assumption that you need to have SRS to transition... this is a false assumption. Transitioning is living your life as yourself. That doesn't REQUIRE that you undergo HRT or have any surgeries.


But regardless, the sole point of getting SRS is not so you can run around and use your new vagina everywhere. My BF doesn't have a penis... if I get SRS, it's not for sex... it's because I hate what I have and want to get rid of it. So even if I was 60, I would still probably want to get SRS. But that's just me.

But like has been said... excuses excuses excuses. You either need to transition or you don't. People will point the blame at anything but themselves.

---

Repeated for truth.

Thank you Bree. That was nicely put.

Stephie

Can someone be too old? No, I don't think you can ever be too old to find happiness in becoming who you want to be. My old friend Michelle transitioned in her mid-60's and died about ten years later. Could she have done it sooner? Maybe. But I know for a fact that those ten years were some of the happiest of her life, finally living who she really was inside.

I agree with Bree that it's a false assumption that you have to have SRS to transition. Many transitioned people I know haven't and won't have any sort of SRS for lack of money, desire, need, or results. What really matters most is how you feel between your ears and not between your legs. While the latter may be a path to the former, it isn't necessarily so.

Empirically speaking it's probably better to transition sooner rather than later, but if you have to do it, better later than never. I don't want to die wishing I'd tried to be myself. Like my friend Michelle, I'd rather go knowing that I DID.

If you accept that congruence is at the heart of need of a person with the transsexual condition then SRS is a completion not an affirmation.

I do not believe that age is a factor at all. We say age is a factor because we fail to properly describe what the real reason is. I think that as you get older both change and security concerns become much more important.

There is a fallacy in the view that "transitioning"is living your life as yourself. It raises the question what is "yourself"? Is it a woman, a man, a gender bender, a crossdresser or what? While transitioning can describe anything that gets people from one state of being to another in the context of this board "transitioning" means to transition from one sex to another in confirmation of what the true gender is. The urgency of congruence will vary. This is a trite statement in that it was described from the beginning by Benjamin. He even developed a scale to reflect urgency as a determining factor.

SRS is only for those, for whom dressing the part and behaving the part is not enough. They experience their disability as a deep wound in the fabric of their lives. To state:

Quote:

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at our age we really don't see the advantage to spending thousands of dollars and basically not doing anything more than we are doing now.

---

indicates that the urgency of congruence is lower than for those that are high intensity transsexuals. The statement focuses on financial security and on behavior and completely misses the injury experienced by those that have a high urgency to be congruent.

It is at this bright red line that persons with gender variance divide themselves from transsexuals. This is never an issue of validity, but always an issue of deeper understanding of both conditions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeaP

Most of what you've described isn't truly age. Your response is also strongly focused on surgery and, to a lesser extent, hormones. I can understand that, as I mentioned them in the OP itself, but neither are necessary for transition.

In writing this, I realize how strongly I feel about social transition vs. all the rest. To me, the barrier IS social transition. After all, it's possible to undergo SRS and take hormones without ever living as a woman. HRT and SRS may convey considerable benefit - or not, depending on your goals, something you've illustrated very well. I recently wrote to someone that SRS was an affirmation of what they had already become. That is how I would regard itself for myself as well, best case.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

There is a fallacy in the view that "transitioning"is living your life as yourself. It raises the question what is "yourself"? Is it a woman, a man, a gender bender, a crossdresser or what?

---

Well, we're talking about transexuals here, so what I was referring to is a MTF living as a female or an FTM living as a male.

I'm an MTF transsexual and I'm transitioning and I am living my life as myself. I don't know when, if ever, I will finish transitioning because SRS is still in my future. After I get that, I still have no idea how things will change, and how my transition will continue. So many say that transition really begins after SRS, and not having had that, I don't really know what to expect. So I'm just doing what I can to be myself every day (hence my recent orchiectomy to help me out until I can get SRS).

There is only ONE age limit for transitioning. It's called [SIZE="7"]DEATH![/SIZE]

What all have said is true; However, remember you heal a lot slower at 65 than at 35.
Just a thought.
And a second thing just came to mind:
At 35, you will live a lot longer transitioned than at 65, So you are getting a bigger
bang for your Buck.
Rader

Uhhmmm, excuse me I am 58 and am healing like a world champion. You just have to prepare properly..........

And - I am not sure that bang for the buck would be the right expression here, we are talking about vaginas after all...... what you say makes it sound all prostitutionary .....:p:eek::doh:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RADER

What all have said is true; However, remember you heal a lot slower at 65 than at 35.
Just a thought.
And a second thing just came to mind:
At 35, you will live a lot longer transitioned than at 65, So you are getting a bigger
bang for your Buck.
Rader

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RADER

What all have said is true; However, remember you heal a lot slower at 65 than at 35.
Just a thought.
And a second thing just came to mind:
At 35, you will live a lot longer transitioned than at 65, So you are getting a bigger
bang for your Buck.
Rader

---

Both of these points are irrelevant because "whenever" you are ready to transition be it 19 or 91, it will be just as magnificent, beneficial, and important regardless of how old you are. And I would claim, even more so the older one is.

You can NOT put a cost/benefit analysis on happiness or being "whole." There is no such thing as more bang for your buck when you are younger vs older. I would state that someone who transitions late in life values and treasures each and every moment more so than younger ladies as the younger you are the more you are likely to take it for granted or to squander time away.

Just saying!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RADER

What all have said is true; However, remember you heal a lot slower at 65 than at 35.
Just a thought.
And a second thing just came to mind:
At 35, you will live a lot longer transitioned than at 65, So you are getting a bigger
bang for your Buck.
Rader

---

I am also 58 and I heal just fine. Even if you transition at 35 you could die the next day or the next year.

People I have seen that needs to transition does not consider them things as being important at the time they transition.

Money will not buy happiness but transitioning can for some people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

If you accept that congruence is at the heart of need of a person with the transsexual condition then SRS is a completion not an affirmation.

...

There is a fallacy in the view that "transitioning"is living your life as yourself. It raises the question what is "yourself"? Is it a woman, a man, a gender bender, a crossdresser or what? While transitioning can describe anything that gets people from one state of being to another in the context of this board "transitioning" means to transition from one sex to another in confirmation of what the true gender is. The urgency of congruence will vary. ...

SRS is only for those, for whom dressing the part and behaving the part is not enough. They experience their disability as a deep wound in the fabric of their lives. To state: indicates that the urgency of congruence is lower than for those that are high intensity transsexuals. The statement focuses on financial security and on behavior and completely misses the injury experienced by those that have a high urgency to be congruent.

It is at this bright red line that persons with gender variance divide themselves from transsexuals. This is never an issue of validity, but always an issue of deeper understanding of both conditions.

---

I do see congruence as the heart of the matter. What I see happening repeatedly to people in transition, however, is that they change during that period significantly to becoming the women they are, if you don't mind the characterization. It shows up in more rational presentation (typically), but more importantly in changes in attitudes, communication style, and relationships. In a hundred things, big and small.

Pre-op transition is obviously not the achievement of full congruence, but there are many types of congruence. Hormonal & emotional congruence are obvious ones, but simply living in the open as yourself is a type of congruence itself. I see material psychological and motive differences between one who wishes to live openly as a crossdresser versus someone whose identity is female.

Because I see many congruence issues - noting that like SRS, things like hormones and FFS are also physical - and also because I perceive social transition to be the larger barrier for most people, I'm reluctant to endorse your gender variant concept. I've read too many times of transsexuals' own views of SRS changing during transition. Many times it's expressed as did you - a completion. But it is often delayed or even foregone, apparently with little issue. There are also those who describe their transitions as ongoing, even post-SRS.

All things equal, I agree with your comments on relative urgency. Regardless of urgency, though, most transsexuals reportedly do not undergo SRS, yet are regarded by their healthcare providers and in the medical literature as transsexual. As you pointed out, the literature addresses urgency, but does not place the transsexual line where you do, nor create the definition you propose.

All of this points to a complexity of considerations and on points of transition each one of which intersect differently with age considerations. Maybe it's better to ask about which points of transition an individual sees age as a problem, rather than asking a blanket question about age.

I do like Lori's long post best of all since it applies best to me. However all the replies raise good points. I guess I kicked the discussion off, in a way, so I'll add a couple more items. First remember I stated I considered myself TG and did not feel a need to transition. Perhaps that is a disqualification but I don't think so.

I have several health issues and HRT would likely interfere with the treatment for these. These are age-related onset issues so "too old" in the physical sense applies. Also, I do heal more slowly now than I used to.

My wife is OK with me going out in Fem-casual. Today we went to the mall, I was dressed in fem shorts and a fem t-shirt with the usual jewelery and my purse. I also have shoulder-length hair. The only more-fem clothing I could have chosen would have been a skirt or dress. My wife would not be OK with that in public, but is OK at home. Having her as a best friend is of EXTREME importance to me, anything that would damage that is not worth the cost.

When I go out en-drab I wear slacks and a sport shirt. I don't get dressed up any more so doing an en-fem is only a small change; different shirt and slacks. Also, if you look at the women's clothing catalogs today many sell men's shirts for the women to wear. If it's the same shirt who can tell.

For those who have a real need to transition, I wish you all the best luck in the world on your journey. There are however a lot of different people here and everyone is different; we all choose different paths and destinations. You are competent to define your own journey but to tell another what they should do or how they should act is really presumptuous; IMHO.

Life is a journey, and a very personal one. Enjoy the ride.

Hugs,
Sandra1746

Sandra, Lori,

Many thanks...great words and truly empathetic and understanding...

I feel the need to share a real life story that I hope serves as a metaphor...

I remember an old friend from University I kept in touch with... we both married our respective partners (he my best mand and I his) and we met up as 'couples' on weekends (as we lived in different parts of the country)... we had our first daughter... problems... she caused problems when going to pubs because she didn't like sitting still for hours... we kind of cooled a bit but kept the friendship/realtionship going. They had their first (daughter)... she would still for hours drinking lemonade while our first and then our second daughter continually got bored and life was one big continuing problem with thie friendship/relationship... so we drifted apart for a few years...

Then they had a son... we heard about his wife's depression and the problems they were having with this kid from hell....

So we invited them over as it it had now been a few years... and met this normal kid... not a kid from hell, a normal kid who was cool!

As they left, they said... now you know what we have had to put up with!

We thought... yeah... welcome to our reality...

I have some increasingly major age related issues. I am glad that our younger (and some older) peers don't, but then they don't share my reality. In fact, from many angry posts around here.. they won't even accept my reality, let alone try to understand it...

Oh.. if life was so black and white!

My 'friend' judged us as ineffective and weak parents for years, until he had a 'normal' kid.. then he reinterpreted the issue as having a problem child... so he successfully ignored the whole point and reconfirmed his own prejudices...

I have three fabulous daughters who are now grown up women (well they think they are!)... and I am too old to be prepared to do surgery and HRT just for a few more years of illusion...

I also am still required to bail them out at times and step in to solve crises... so I need a job that pays!

In my head, I am Kaz and female... but I now know that I always was... I just lived a different life... a good one and I did some good stuff... I don't regret it, but I do regret letting them down because of who I really am...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sandra1746

I do like Lori's long post best of all since it applies best to me. However all the replies raise good points. I guess I kicked the discussion off, in a way, so I'll add a couple more items. First remember I stated I considered myself TG and did not feel a need to transition. Perhaps that is a disqualification but I don't think so.

I have several health issues and HRT would likely interfere with the treatment for these. These are age-related onset issues so "too old" in the physical sense applies. Also, I do heal more slowly now than I used to.

My wife is OK with me going out in Fem-casual. ... My wife would not be OK with ... Having her as a best friend is of EXTREME importance to me, anything that would damage that is not worth the cost.

... If it's the same shirt who can tell.

... You are competent to define your own journey but to tell another what they should do or how they should act is really presumptuous; IMHO.

---

This thread is about transition. Please refer to the first sentence in my OP. Moreover, I posted it in the Transsexual Forum.

Anyone is free to reply, I'm just not sure why someone who is not transsexual would. What relevance are your comments on your personal situation and health as it relates to transition if you are not transsexual and never planned to transition? (You describe yourself as TG and with no need to transition.) I don't mean this offensively, I just don't get it. I might accept it as a theoretical, using your health, for example, to illustrate a point (which was well-taken). Fine, but then why go to supposed issues of attitude, e.g., people's presumption in telling other people what they should do?

I can only infer the topical content in some of your other comments. Are you implying, for example, that your marriage relationship and your wife's limited forbearance are of greater value because of your age or the passage of time? If so, should I extend that reasoning to others ... Or would that be presumptuous? I REALLY don't understand the relevance of the clothing point with the shirt.

Help me out here, because I must be missing something. I asked about transition age objections in the OP. What I got from transsexuals is that age is irrelevant. What I got from non-transsexuals - on a question that only is applicable TO transsexuals - was a certain outrage.

I apologise for posting... I really did not wish to offend... but here we go again with categories... to you I am not TS... I am trying to say that it is not that simple... I am happy to butt out of this community if that is the feeling of the community. I am so so sorry to have offended you. I just have gender issues that border on the suicidal... thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaz

I apologise for posting... I really did not wish to offend... but here we go again with categories... to you I am not TS... I am trying to say that it is not that simple... I am happy to butt out of this community if that is the feeling of the community. I am so so sorry to have offended you. I just have gender issues that border on the suicidal... thanks.

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Ah, but Kaz, you didn't offend, nor did you take offense. And it's not about categories - its about age and transition. What i can read into your response, Sandra's, and Lorileah's is that age is one of many considerations - a complicating factor - when thinking of transition when you don't need to transition. But for those to whom transition is urgent, it is irrelevant. That's not as tautological as it sounds. Rather, it's an expression of identity urgency in the sense recognized in the medical literature.

Lea, we have the "What's New" button at the top of each page. I often browse the forum this way, and focus on the first column with the thread title. If it interests me, I go to the second column where the last person who has posted in the thread is listed and I click on the link that takes me to the last post. I don't always notice the third column that tells me what section of the forum I'm about to enter, even though I should pay attention to this.

Usually we can tell by the thread titles where we're headed, but not always.

Please, if it seems as if someone has posted in this thread thinking they were in the CD section, it is likely an honest mistake and maybe a PM asking them if they realize they posted in the TS section might be enough to have them either edit their post or delete it if they feel it is inappropriate.

Just trying to keep the peace here. :hugs:

You see, you really don't get it do you (not you personally Lea (utmost respect! seriously!)... but the broader TS 'labelled' community)? I don't need to transition? This feeling is so dismissive of others and appear to have no empathy with what others are going through.

OK I can see the argument that we 'lesser mortals' shouldn't be posting here...

Have you any idea about what it is like to NEED to transition... but you CAN'T....

No you don't.... Get out of your boxes and look around the place... PLEASE!

Kaz, please don't let memories of the vocal few get to you. I know you're not speaking to anyone particularly in this thread. You are who you identify as, no matter what choices you make about how to conduct your life. No one else has walked in your shoes and so no one is qualified to place any judgment on you, ever.

I do think age is a factor but in "not being old enough" to transition not "from being to old".

But this only applies to me and my own unique history.

Because I believe we are born in such a way that only one identity is possible and that is as a woman and anything built on top of this is false we become extremely vulnerable to psychological trauma. I only speak from a male bodied perspective, not female bodied.

This makes treating the "birth defect" ( I do not like this phrase but understand it) difficult because it becomes hidden under layers of psychosis created by the original birth defect and the worlds reaction to it further distorting ones sense of reality.

You are born wounded by circumstance so are much easier to be wounded by life, you live without the psychological defenses other children have, much like having a disease of the immune system that opens you up to sickness but you are not sick and not defective.

Very few people have escaped the violence, physical or otherwise of family and community not trying to forcibly change them or punish them for being who they are and this is a slow poison that is dripped into your veins poisoning your own mind.

If I had transitioned in my teens and not first addressed the effects of childhood trauma it is unlikely I would have survived it and the GID for me was much of this trauma not only how it affected me but how it affected others.

You become trapped between a rock and a hard place because not changing risks death and changing risks death. Most of my intense and very unpredictable behavior came from being caught between these two opposing forces.

I threw myself into therapy and self education instead of drugs and alcohol but for the same reason, to deal wiith the pain of feeling broken (not normal like others) and looking for escape but not knowing from what and answers but without knowing the questions.

As I healed from the complex PTSD, anxiety, Avoidance Personality Disorder ( basically everything that happen to me in childhood and my reaction to it) I was able to have a deeper understanding of the gender identity dysphoria leaving me with the ability to make better choices instead of not having "any choice" so I'm in pain but I'm calm about it because I understand so the fear of the "whats happening to me/ whats wrong with me" is less.

This leaves me much stronger to walk into the future and increases my chances of surviving psychologically intact even though I am living incongruent and opposed to that which I know to be true. The knowledge has brought a measure of peace yet also contributes to my restlessness to act.

Age is your friend and enemy in that to transition when you are young brings benefits with costs but also to transition when you are older brings benefits with costs.

There is no perfect solution, you will pay one way or another but with GID you are paying anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaz

In my head, I am Kaz and female... but I now know that I always was... I just lived a different life... a good one and I did some good stuff... I don't regret it, but I do regret letting them down because of who I really am...

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and that is the truth. I know so many want physically to match the mind but I have always been Lori (from age 4 or 5) in my mind. It confuses me when guys do things and I think why don't I want to do that, but when I do think about my gender I think of me as female. Of course that illusion is shattered when I look. But I am happy with my mind. Would I have had surgery 30 years ago? If the results were even close to today, yes. I have reconciled who I am. Maybe it is the logical male part of my brain. If the hormones or surgery would make me 20 years younger, I would even continue working the extra 20 years. Age may not be a disease but it sure has some issues

This thread PRESUMED you are transsexual..and asked an interesting question...
and people gave thoughtful caring answers...positive answers...

and then people got on the soapbox about transsexuals and how somehow "we have all the answers, and we don't understand"...blah blah....it came from nowhere...followed by "you tell em's".....

WTF

It's just a fact of life that people end up at different places...folks that have transitioned KNOW what is given up...folks that haven't dont... this is a permanent forever conflict..the gap is gonna be there.
People that transition will doubt people that dont...they just will..and people that don't will look at transitioners with a mix of feelings that apparently includes envy..

Its especially silly to go on about how someone that transitioned feels better than you...frankly when i read stories about how people stuck it out with their families, or stuck it out for a job, it makes me feel inadequate that i couldn't make it ..
i got divorced, i lost my job...what a loser... i guess i should just keep my mouth shut around all you people that can hold off transition better than i could...sounds kind of ridiculous, no??

I love you Kaz, you make the world a better place.

And I very much understand, glad that you are here and are my friend.

To suffer for others can be the highest expression of love, much like a soldier who dies for another. You have sacrificed a part of yourself and your life to protect and nurture your family giving them hope for a brighter future. You will always have my respect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaz

You see, you really don't get it do you (not you personally Lea (utmost respect! seriously!)... but the broader TS 'labelled' community)? I don't need to transition? This feeling is so dismissive of others and appear to have no empathy with what others are going through.

OK I can see the argument that we 'lesser mortals' shouldn't be posting here...

Have you any idea about what it is like to NEED to transition... but you CAN'T....

No you don't.... Get out of your boxes and look around the place... PLEASE!

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Maybe it seems dismissive if you don't look at what the people who have needed to transition and did transition had to go through and had to give up to do so. To say that everyone else is being dismissive is kind of being dismissive in itself. How do you know your situation is any harder (or easier) than someone else who has transitioned?

I don't know your situation, so I don't know what's keeping you from transitioning. (Jokingly) Sounds like you're in prison or something and they are literally forcing your way of life... But to me, a NEED is something that if you don't do it, you will die. You NEED food. You NEED water.

Of course, I haven't always had a need to transition... when I was 12, I was just suffering and wasn't the same person I was two years ago, and didn't know what I knew two years ago. Two years ago, after growing up, learning who I really am finally breaking through barriers... things changed and I did need to transition. It was transition or die. Unless I was in a position where I literally couldn't transition... but I would actually have to sit down and try to think up a situation that would keep me from transitioning. I didn't want to transition. This isn't something I'm happy I have to do. I had to choose between the lesser of two evils with a hope that transitioning would make my life better. Thankfully it has. And I haven't had to lose too much in the process. There are people who transition and give up EVERYTHING... I am extremely lucky to not be in that position, but it's a risk I had to take.

Maybe what you have is a desperate want or desire to transition. However, if you do NEED to transition and can't... I honestly feel bad for you... and hope you can hold on to the good things in life long enough to enjoy them. But if you desperately want to transition but don't because of family or a job or whatever, that's different. You're able to make the choice to live without transitioning. (not saying anything about you being or not being a transsexual... not calling that into question at all) I hope that your reasons for not transitioning are good ones, ones that you can benefit from so you can enjoy life. Transitioning isn't easy... being a transsexual, transitioning or not, isn't easy. It's not something to gloat about or hold over anyone's head... it's something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

EDIT:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

This thread PRESUMED you are transsexual..and asked an interesting question...
and people gave thoughtful caring answers...positive answers...

and then people got on the soapbox about transsexuals and how somehow "we have all the answers, and we don't understand"...blah blah....it came from nowhere...followed by "you tell em's".....

WTF

It's just a fact of life that people end up at different places...folks that have transitioned KNOW what is given up...folks that haven't dont... this is a permanent forever conflict..the gap is gonna be there.
People that transition will doubt people that dont...they just will..and people that don't will look at transitioners with a mix of feelings that apparently includes envy..

Its especially silly to go on about how someone that transitioned feels better than you...frankly when i read stories about how people stuck it out with their families, or stuck it out for a job, it makes me feel inadequate that i couldn't make it ..
i got divorced, i lost my job...what a loser... i guess i should just keep my mouth shut around all you people that can hold off transition better than i could...sounds kind of ridiculous, no??

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And of course you get here first and say what I'm trying to say... but much better. *shakes fist*

Kaz,

It is sad that you feel somehow diminished by the discussion here. I have always thought that being gender variant is no lesser of a burden than being transsexual. In fact to me it is clear, that in many cases being gender variant is a much greater burden. You ask if I know what it is like to need to transition and not being able to? I transitioned at age 56 because prior to that point in my life I could not. Not that anyone imposed a prohibition on me but rather I had made decisions early in my life, the consequences of which placed responsibilities and obligations on me that made it impossible for me to transition until I was at this age.

Your statement below says to me that you are transsexual, yet in an earlier post you say this:

Quote:

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and I am too old to be prepared to do surgery and HRT just for a few more years of illusion...

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I am not sure what the illusion would be. There is no cost/benefit to transitioning, both hormone therapy and surgery other than to be whole, to be congruent for those that are transsexual. For someone who experiences gender variance there is no threshold which you can cross to be whole in this sense. I hope I do get it, and as I stated in my comment these matters are never about validity only about understanding. My biography has no greater value than yours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaz

You see, you really don't get it do you (not you personally Lea (utmost respect! seriously!)... but the broader TS 'labelled' community)? I don't need to transition? This feeling is so dismissive of others and appear to have no empathy with what others are going through.

OK I can see the argument that we 'lesser mortals' shouldn't be posting here...

Have you any idea about what it is like to NEED to transition... but you CAN'T....

No you don't.... Get out of your boxes and look around the place... PLEASE!

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

This thread PRESUMED you are transsexual..and asked an interesting question...
and people gave thoughtful caring answers...positive answers...

and then people got on the soapbox about transsexuals and how somehow "we have all the answers, and we don't understand"...blah blah....it came from nowhere...followed by "you tell em's".....

---

Moderator for this section feel free to remove this post but I have to say something. Something that has bothered me for a long time here. It is the idea that Transsexuals HAVE to have surgery. My post was stating that some of us feel we are beyond and age where surgery will be an advantage to US. That we are in reality just as transsexual as the ops, as the hormonals. The first posts were leading to the "You are not trans if you don't have surgery and you should NEVER have an excuse not to." I am militant in that I want everyone to be able to have what they want and not have anyone tell them they cannot. When a TS says "You have to...or you are not a TS" here it bugs the heck out of me. When the first posts were calling people like me out for being less than, I had to post and from the responses there are many of us who fall in the "I ain't having surgery" category. OK it isn't age, I just don't think in MY time of life which is later, that the advantages of surgery outweigh the happiness I have with who I am. I am so over the class warfare here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

It is sad that you feel somehow diminished by the discussion here. I have always thought that being gender variant is no lesser of a burden than being transsexual. In fact to me it is clear, that in many cases being gender variant is a much greater burden.

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I have to agree here... I don't know what it's like to be between two genders. Easier, harder, I don't know. One thing I do know, however, is that at least transsexuals can transition and be themselves and still fit into society's binary society. We're still one or the other. It's harder for people to wrap their heads around someone who isn't male or female, or who is somewhere in between.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Moderator for this section feel free to remove this post but I have to say something. Something that has bothered me for a long time here. It is the idea that Transsexuals HAVE to have surgery. My post was stating that some of us feel we are beyond and age where surgery will be an advantage to US. That we are in reality just as transsexual as the ops, as the hormonals. The first posts were leading to the "You are not trans if you don't have surgery and you should NEVER have an excuse not to." I am militant in that I want everyone to be able to have what they want and not have anyone tell them they cannot. When a TS says "You have to...or you are not a TS" here it bugs the heck out of me. When the first posts were calling people like me out for being less than, I had to post and from the responses there are many of us who fall in the "I ain't having surgery" category. OK it isn't age, I just don't think in MY time of life which is later, that the advantages of surgery outweigh the happiness I have with who I am. I am so over the class warfare here

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You said this before and I agreed with you that transsexuals don't HAVE to have surgery... many people also agree. You're taking what one or two people say and making sound like ALL transsexuals are on a war saying that if you don't have surgery you aren't transsexual.

Are you actually reading what we are saying or do you just have this chip on your shoulder and won't actually open your ears (or eyes...)?

Again, transition does not require surgery. And this is coming from a transexual that has already had partial surgery down there and WILL get full SRS as soon as things fall into place.

Can you accept the fact that the majority of transsexuals here aren't against you??? It sure sounds like you're fighting this one woman war that nobody sees but you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

It's harder for people to wrap their heads around someone who isn't male or female, or who is somewhere in between.

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And also for people who do feel they are female 100% but who also feel so bound by family obligations (or not wanting to lose their families, or their standing in their professions and communities), that they straddle the line between having to pretend to be male, and being who they feel they are internally.

I think that being trans in any way, shape, or form is difficult, each group has it's own challenges, even the TSs who have fully transitioned and have lost families, friends, and jobs.

It's nice to read about people who retain their spouses, families, and their jobs and honestly I wish that everyone could accomplish this and be who they are with a minimum of losses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Ans also for people who do feel they are female 100% but who also feel so bound by family obligations (or not wanting to lose their families, or their standing in their professions and communities), that they straddle the line between having to pretend to be male, and being who they feel they are internally.

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That's true as well. Most people lump everyone into the same category, so to them, someone who is somewhere in between and someone who can only express themselves on occasion are both just weirdos. And that's not to say that we trannies aren't all weirdos too :P

nobody take my usage of the word 'weirdos' seriously... I'm just joking around :)

When I was 29 I thought I was too old. When I was 34 it no longer mattered, nothing mattered, I wanted to die. I gave transition a try, who knows, being TS may kill me yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

.....nobody take my usage of the word 'weirdos' seriously... I'm just joking around :)

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I like the word "eccentric". So many of the TS's I know tend to be a bit eccentric and I know I am too. :)

I'm not dead so I guess I'm not too old.

and Lea, I'll bet i'm older than you are.

I tried to say this in a previous post... but I want to say it again...

Things change with time. How we feel about ourselves, our lives and our choices change. It's rare to find someone that is in the same place in their life, or their transition or their journey of self discovery as yourself.

So rather than arguing over every little opinion that someone has to say, can we just share our experiences and consider the fact that each of us may not know what it's like to be where another is at? Maybe keep a sense that 'even if I don't understand, I'll accept, tolerate, or what have you'?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeaP

Of all the reasons I read for not transitioning, being too old is the one that puzzles me .... I don't understand it, considering age in itself. One might have health issues that prevent hormones or surgeries....Does anyone really think age is an issue for themselves?

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The problem is that health issues and being old are linked, aren't they? I know a transgendered woman well up in her seventies, who, after having heart surgery recently, had to have her hormone therapy stopped. But, after the Standards of Care were revised last year, hormone therapy is no longer required as a prerequisite to Gender Correction Surgery, that is not such a crucial issue any more. However, just with a dicky heart, Gender Correction Surgery becomes a much bigger risk.

Another factor is that a full transition can take a long time, for not everyone can breeze through it in a couple of years, for a variety of reasons. With me, age has been an issue. I have undergone counselling from the time when I started actively seeking transition, eight years ago! I still haven't had Gender Correction Surgery. Neither have I been approved for hormone therapy yet. (And the local endocrinology clinic has lost my file yet again.)

When you get older, you do start to count the years you have to your death rather than the years from your birth, as someone observed, and you can see the road ahead ending at some point. The worry is that you will run out of road, just as you are settling in comfortably for a nice, long cruise along the highway of life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beth-Lock

The problem is that health issues and being old are linked, aren't they? I know a transgendered woman well up in her seventies, who, after having heart surgery recently, had to have her hormone therapy stopped. But, after the Standards of Care were revised last year, hormone therapy is no longer required as aprerequisite to Gender Correction Surgery, that is not such a crucial issue any more. However, just with a dicky heart, Gender Correction Surgery becomes a much bigger risk.
With me, age has been an issue. I have undergone counselling from the time when I started actively seeking transition, eight years ago! I still haven't had Gender Correction Surgery. When you get older, you do start to count the years you have to your death rather than the years from your birth, as someone observed, and you can see the road ahead ending at some point. The worry is that you will run out of road, just as you are settling in comfortably for a nice, long cruise along the highway of life.

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But you don't NEED SRS or HRT to be yourself... especially if it is a major health risk. See a therapist. In time they can give you the letter you need for a gender marker change on your license and so on. You can live your life as yourself without hormones and without surgery...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Moderator for this section feel free to remove this post but I have to say something. Something that has bothered me for a long time here. It is the idea that Transsexuals HAVE to have surgery. My post was stating that some of us feel we are beyond and age where surgery will be an advantage to US. That we are in reality just as transsexual as the ops, as the hormonals. The first posts were leading to the "You are not trans if you don't have surgery and you should NEVER have an excuse not to." I am militant in that I want everyone to be able to have what they want and not have anyone tell them they cannot. When a TS says "You have to...or you are not a TS" here it bugs the heck out of me. When the first posts were calling people like me out for being less than, I had to post and from the responses there are many of us who fall in the "I ain't having surgery" category. OK it isn't age, I just don't think in MY time of life which is later, that the advantages of surgery outweigh the happiness I have with who I am. I am so over the class warfare here

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You are pulling my posts out and not even reading them..if you choose to quote me, please make it about something i actually said.

i never said anything about surgery except to "not get caught up in it"... who the heck is telling you what you can and cannot have??

Your problem is not that some group of ts women don't respect your choice...your problem is that you did not and don't plan to transition... that is a very big problem to have.

Nobody is better or worse..you are just making it up that somehow I would think i am better than you when clearly i am not (other than that i make much more directly to the point comments...ahem)

The class warfare that you are "so over" in this thread is totally and 100% because of you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

But you don't NEED SRS or HRT to be yourself... ...

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But I don't want to be myself, not my old self!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

See a therapist. ...

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I have been seeing two therapists (at the same time) for years, after the failure of the first therapist to get to the root of my problems, eight years ago, after a reasonably long course of therapy and counselling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bree_K

In time they can give you the letter you need for a gender marker change on your license and so on. You can live your life as yourself without hormones and without surgery...

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Done that, but my birth certificate and health card can't be changed without the surgery. I got an annoying reminder of that the last time I went to the ER, and the doctor printed in big block letters on the top of his diagnosis form, "PATIENT IS A MAN." And all I had was an infected thumb which he lanced. He never had to look under my pretty skirt. Ditto every time I go to the doctor, when of course you have to either present your health card or they look up all the data in the computer anyway.

And oh yes, I have been living as a woman full time for three years and counting. But I am getting tired of those two basketballs getting in the way of my walking like a woman, wearing a bathing suit or most women's pants, not to mention feeling sexless. And then, too many people do not think I am sexless, and suspect that I am still an inherently predatory man underneath it all, and not to be trusted in the company of women and children.

I just want to remind people that this Transsexual section is open to all to post in, no matter if they are transsexual or not. It would be, however, a great help if a non-transsexual understands what section this is before they choose to post an opinion -- you run a good chance of posting irrelevantly and confusingly to others. Transsexuals and crossdressers are different, but I hope everyone understands that one is no better than another -- we are simply distinct in sometimes similar sometimes not ways.

If transsexuals want only other transsexuals to respond to a thread, I suggest you apply to join the Safe Haven private group if you have not already done so. In the meantime, I am determinedly weary of accusations of elitism being tossed back and forth among the membership.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beth-Lock

But I don't want to be myself, not my old self!

I have been seeing two therapists (at the same time) for years, after the failure of the first therapist to get to the root of my problems, eight years ago, after a reasonably long course of therapy and counselling.

Done that, but my birth certificate and health card can't be changed without the surgery. I got an annoying reminder of that the last time I went to the ER, and the doctor printed in big block letters on the top of his diagnosis form, "PATIENT IS A MAN." And all I had was an infected thumb which he lanced. He never had to look under my pretty skirt. Ditto every time I go to the doctor, when of course you have to either present your health card or they look up all the data in the computer anyway.

And oh yes, I have been living as a woman full time for three years and counting. But I am getting tired of those two basketballs getting in the way of my walking like a woman, wearing a bathing suit or most women's pants, not to mention feeling sexless. And then, too many people do not think I am sexless, and suspect that I am still an inherently predatory man underneath it all, and not to be trusted in the company of women and children.

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Find a better therapist if you aren't happy with the one you have lol. I lucked out... my first therapist was chosen because I got a TON of recommendations... and he totally deserved them.

Gah, yeah... different states have different rules. I live in TX who hates trannies. But thankfully I was born in CA so I can change my birth cert no problem. But why can't your health insurance be changed? If you get a court order, that should be all you need. Maybe you dealt with a bunch of a-holes the first time... try again!

I totally understand about the basketballs. I'm lucky and I just got rid of mine. I wish you could feel what I feel :(

I have terrible memory, so even though I've been here for a while, it's hard for me to remember where everyone is at. So if I made assumptions, please don't take it personally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sharon

I just want to remind people that this Transsexual section is open to all to post in, no matter if they are transsexual or not. It would be, however, a great help if a non-transsexual understands what section this is before they choose to post an opinion -- you run a good chance of posting irrelevantly and confusingly to others. Transsexuals and crossdressers are different, but I hope everyone understands that one is no better than another -- we are simply distinct in sometimes similar sometimes not ways.

If transsexuals want only other transsexuals to respond to a thread, I suggest you apply to join the Safe Haven private group if you have not already done so. In the meantime, I am determinedly weary of accusations of elitism being tossed back and forth among the membership.

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QFT (quoted for truth) lol....

I'll side with Lorileah. First, so many here have this "my way or the highway" attitude; if you're not having surgery, then you don't belong here as you're just a poser. Well, I currently don't plan on having surgery, yet I have little in common with the crossdressers and their section either. I have simply labeled myself transgendered; I never refer to myself as a TS or as a CD. Does that mean I should avoid the TS section completely? Whatever...

Anyway, at 61 I am in a sense too old to get much use from a vagina. Nearly all guys my age are repulsive (fat slobs with narrow minds), so even if I had a vagina, I would not want them to enter it. No way! Were I twenty again, of course my decision would likely be different. But I'm not gonna be a beautiful young lady. Not ever.

So, do I want to be a typical 61 year old woman? Look around. There's a reason men don't pursue 60 year old women.

Thanks in part to hormones, I have a better female body than nearly any woman my age. I pass easily and enjoy being female (24-7 is a not too distant of a goal), yet I still feel thrill and excitement when I meet a good looking female.

Sometimes choices are all gray and none are black and white. Except, it seems, to some of you on this website.