"Sir," How much longer do I have to tolerate this term being used/applied towards me?

Two years on hormones. Two years this May living my life 24/7 as a woman. Two years, dressing, applying make-up (every morning) waxing and shaping my eyebrows, growing my hair, learning how to style it and doing the best I can, practicing walking, talking, sitting, standing, holding my hands, etc.., etc... etc... The cost, the money invested, the time, energy, psychological and emotional pain and suffering, gender therapy, the whole nine yards! All of that. All this I go through and have experienced over the last two years, the time, the energy. All of it!

Yet despite it all. Today, while sitting quietly waiting my turn at the pharmacist, not having uttered a single sylable (so it couldn't have been my voice tone) the girl at the counter says, "how can I help you, SIR!!!!!" That aweful word that makes me feel like I've just been shot with a gun or stabbed with a knife. That three lettered pronoun that insults me worse than if they had said, "f... you!"

I have a Masters Degree in Psychology, work as a gender therapist (I am not advertising here just stating a fact) and am as professional as they come. Yet I walked out of that place (having received my perscription for t-blockers) got into my car and blew up! I screamed, cried, yelled out at the Universe, "how much longer and how much more do I have to do before this stops?! What else do I have to do?!" I sat there filled with tears and emotionally distraught. It took several minutes for me to get myself together.

It's been a long time since I released that much negative energy. I guess the frustration and stressors of the last few days had their tole on me and I just gave in to the tears and emotions. I had to or I would have gone nuts!

Does this three letter pronoun cause an emotional reaction within you? Does anyone else or has anyone else had this kind of experience?

It's embarassing to write about and admit to you all; and yet I feel I have to. This is where I go to "vent." This is what I need to do for me. Hope you, my friends and aquaintances here on this forum don't mind. I sometimes need to explode and get things off my chest.

Transition is hard! Being Transsexual sucks sometimes! Gender Dysphoria bites the big one!!! That's reality. It's what we have to live with every day and sometimes there's nothing else that can be done except cry!

Paulette

Did she emphasize the "sir"?
I wonder if it's just a case of a prick being a prick.

I just say "it's ma'am if you don't mind" in the same tone of voice I'd use to tell someone "you are an idiot!"

I try to think about what got me clocked - understanding some of it is hard to fix.

It does suck though Paulette, I know it does.

Rude, Narrow minded, Bigoted people are just that. Hold your head up and let Karma get her in the end.

Christen x

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"Sir," How much longer do I have to tolerate this term being used/applied towards me?

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Depends. How long does it take for you to say “Please go and bring your supervisor here.” and then instruct him or her as to how this particular employee should treat a customer who does not seem at all to look like a “sir”?

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Originally Posted by Christen

Rude, Narrow minded, Bigoted people are just that. Hold your head up and let Karma get her in the end.

Christen x

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Nope. Society is made better one corrective action at a time. Bigotry aside, this is also a customer service issue, and when common sense and the desire to make a fair and just society does not win out then dollars will.

Possibly forever? I don't mean to sound cruel or blunt but as a shrink/therapist you should know that there is no cure for ignorant and or clueless or cruel people. IF you don't want the same thing to happen to someone else, I would make an effort to visit with that same pharmacist for drug related advice [and possibly record the conversation] if you decide to turn them in to management.

You never said how your interaction went once you stepped to the window? Were they civil and/or professional then?

Sorry this happened to you and no, I feel fortunate in that I don't have to deal with folks like I am sure you do.

I hope you don't let this "fool" make you feel bad for too long.

Wow!! I've been sir'ed ONCE, and I was mortified. Luckily the woman in line behind me called him an a$$hole before I said anything. If I was in a store, I would ask for the manager asap.
A while back, in line in the ladies room at a gay bar, a girl looked at me and said there's probably a free urinal next door. She was best ignored, but the bigotry can even come from within the LBGT community.

A month or two ago I asked to speak to the head pharmacist (who is also the store owner) and whined about the staff calling me Sir / Mr. Well him more than the others. He's a gentle fellow and I know he didn't mean any offense: he just never thought about the idea that someone who presents female might prefer to be referred to as female. It hasn't been long enough yet for me to say "it hasn't happened since", but it is meaningful to me that I did something about the situation. They know now. Perhaps I will need to remind them again a couple of times, but if it is going to take (say) 4 repetitions at least I have the first out of the way instead of getting internally upset about when they are going to Notice and Draw The Right Conclusion.

I go to three different branches of my bank semi-regularly; one close to home, one downtown, and one near my gender therapist. At the later I usually end up getting the same teller. Today, as is not uncommon for her, after verifying my ID (regular procedure) she asked about what transactions I would like to do, using my male name (which would have been on her screen.) I told her that I go by Sandra now. Yup, I know that it isn't in the banking records at all; I don't know if the bank can even add a "preferred name" to my account -- but I took the first step. Perhaps after the second or third time it will stick that I'm not wanting my male name used. It might take time, but it has begun.

Just trying to understand. Is the word SIR in capitals her emphasis or yours? Was it an innocent mistake or deliberate cruelty?

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I guess we are all different. I don't take offence for being sir'ed. But then women in Texas get sir'ed all the time, even from a genetic woman. What amazes me is I can be dressed completely drab - an olive drab T shirt with a pocket with jeans and suede shoes that almost look like hiking boots and I still get ma'amed. Of course, when I open my mouth and talk in my voice which is a cross between Johnny Cash and Joe Friday of Dragnet I no longer get ma'amed. But I don't really care.

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I wrote the text in the caption last night, and after some reflection, later thought the post might upset the feelings of others. Recently I have steered clear of touching on emotional topics and concentrating only on body effects of HRT and related topics. However due to a lapse of judgement last night I wavered from my policy.

If I have upset or offended anyone I apologize.

Johanna

The world outside is a mirror of our self-perception.

In these first months of transition I have seen that 100% of the times if I get "sir'ed" there is a reason INSIDE me.
In the sense, maybe I am too much with the mind in the clouds, day dreaming, forgetting to smile, going out
dressed en femme but not totally convinced with my look (maybe the hair, maybe the make up).

In your particular case, nevertheless, I would do

1) never return in that shop

2) return in that shop but accepting her view. If she sees a man it is my "problem", not hers.

I still get misgendered - around where I live mostly, people still remember me as him. When I am out of town though and it happens it shocks me a little. Does still happen from time to time.

Damn, Paulette! Like you, I feel very hurt when it happens. It sounds like, fortunately, it doesn't happen to you very often. Same here. But, I know how you feel, when it does happen it feels horrible. My day goes from "terrific" to "miserable" in three letters.

I'm trying to learn how to deal with it, to make it their problem, not mine. Here's my method. I'm learning to stare at them with a shocked expression and firmly say, "Excuse me?" Then I just pause and continue to stare.

Did it recently to a parking valet at a club with mostly male members and he immediately went into full apology mode, "I'm sorry! Most of the time when I open the driver's door it's a guy behind the wheel and it's so automatic and I really wasn't thinking, please forgive me, ma'm."

Then I go to some quiet place, pull the knife out of my stomach, and (I'm really trying) to then go on with my life.

Can I offer you an e-hug?

Hugs,
Persephone.

Sometimes there are no managers to report to. Sometimes you cant complain to anyone higher up or decide to not visit that 'establishment' as some point out. Sometimes you have to 'grab the bull by the horns' and confront that person and correct him/her.
Two days ago a kid in my class 'sired' me while asking a question during a lecture. I was also fully dressed. I answered his question and then added '... and, it's Miss by the way'. It threw me completely off balance and it took 5-10 min to get calm again and lecture normally. I actually felt bad for the guy who looked honestly confused and embarased. Yet, I felt proud of myself after doing it because it set an example for the other students in the class. I am sure it is my voice that triggered it and I am working on that.
I feel like calling a manager will only create resentment and not fix anything. We need to correct the individuals and respect ourselves rather than rely on a 'nanny state'.
I still hessitate to correct people some times but in retrospect I feel empowered whenever I do.

I was misgendered by a blood technician at a local clinic, rudely, crudely, with a smirk on his face. I was so upset that I put on my "professional" hat so to speak, wrote a very pointed letter to the head of HR of the entire clinic system (it's a big, many-officed clinic system), and got that b@$!%&d FIRED. I cc'd the Goddess on down, even the names of attorneys I didn't really retain, and the head of the local ACLU. It worked honey. The only power we'll ever have is the power we generate and apply oursleves.

I ALWAYS correct misgendering On The Spot, regardless of whose prescent, and have developed my own personal technique (there are many), that I end up making THEM the ones who slink off in embarrassment now. I feel for you in my heart, and my eyes water up thinking of you and all the rest of us who still have to take this shit. We're the true pioneers dear. The older "first generation" girls certainly started it, but WE are the ones who are going to force this society and culture to regard us with dignity and respect, even it it's only to our face, and they're really choking back rage at having to treat us properly. We must be strong, you already know this. It's just gets so tough sometimes. Your sister in trans, Ann

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Originally Posted by bas1985

In these first months of transition I have seen that 100% of the times if I get "sir'ed" there is a reason INSIDE me.
In the sense, maybe I am too much with the mind in the clouds, day dreaming, forgetting to smile, going out
dressed en femme but not totally convinced with my look (maybe the hair, maybe the make up).

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You can hide a lot of things, but unless you do prosthesis makeup you can't hide a nose like mine. I am likely to continue to get misgendered most of the time unless I get FFS to reduce the nose and raise the cheeks.

I don't have anything to contribute other than this, hon.

/hug

- MM

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Originally Posted by bas1985

The world outside is a mirror of our self-perception.
...
2) return in that shop but accepting her view. If she sees a man it is my "problem", not hers.

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How can you say it's my problem? You obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about. It is NOT my problem! I am aware that perhaps my reaction to this needs to change and I need to learn how to just laugh it off. But to say it is my problem when it is obvious that this person has a problem with me being transsexual is again NOT my problem!

sorry, I should have clarified the origin of my point of view. I follow a spiritual teaching that basically says that the outside world is not existent and the only reality is our consciousness. So everything is OUR problem, because everything does not happen by chance but it is the result of our (mostly unconscious) projection.

That said... it is clear that also this person has a problem, but his (or her) problem is not yours and your only control is in your reaction to this fact.

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Originally Posted by Ann Louise

I was misgendered by a blood technician at a local clinic, rudely, crudely, with a smirk on his face. I was so upset that I put on my "professional" hat so to speak, wrote a very pointed letter to the head of HR of the entire clinic system (it's a big, many-officed clinic system), and got that b@$!%&d FIRED.

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Excellent!

I am all for being gracious and extending charity when the person I am dealing with is confused (that is, I don’t get all that upset when someone calls me “sir” over the phone), but IRL there is no way I’d stand for that.

Somehow we’ve gotten the notion that we should just take this in stride and shrug it off, but this is no less of a social issue than someone calling an African-American man “boy” or calling any woman by any dismissive, cutesy term. If someone used the “N-word” with a customer, or even in front of a customer, there would be hell to pay and that employee would be gone so fast he wouldn’t even be able to take his shadow with him.

We’re only asking for courtesy and respect. Anyone in a customer-service position who doesn’t understand that this is what the job requires ought to be compelled to step aside and let someone else who does understand this have his or her job.

You are who you are. I believe in self confidence, affirmation and self defense.

If someone has a problem with me, then *they* have a problem. NOT me.

<3

- MM

Hi I am also 24/7 and I was almost done the same way. I was at the Naval Hospital Pharmacy and though dressed as I always am. I was called by my male name. But you must understand why I didn't say anything about it. First I was pretty much the only one there. This was a Sunday afternoon. I did not say anything cause just because I heard a name called and went back to the counter. Did not mean that that was me, and I was picking up my prescription for Estradiol. I did chuckel as I thought he wanted to see what I looked like. The prescription is addressed to me. Nothing was said when I reached the counter.


I had a woman on the trolley call out to me she said "I know and I love you" Some time you should say something other times not. Just live and next time just say don't call me sir then smile then walk away. You're still learning too. Don't let things get you down life is too short for that. Now think of some good comebacks and use them if you need to. Just make sure to be a nice lady about it.

Tess

I also notice it varies a lot depending on where you are in the country. I live in a very liberal city and it rarely happens to me here. When I travel to more conservative places I notice the concentration of ass$&@? and bigots goes way up. I think it may be more socially acceptable in some places to act like this.

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Originally Posted by Ann Louise

I was misgendered by a blood technician at a local clinic, rudely, crudely, with a smirk on his face. I was so upset that I put on my "professional" hat so to speak, wrote a very pointed letter to the head of HR of the entire clinic system (it's a big, many-officed clinic system), and got that b@$!%&d FIRED. I cc'd the Goddess on down, even the names of attorneys I didn't really retain, and the head of the local ACLU. It worked honey. The only power we'll ever have is the power we generate and apply oursleves.

I ALWAYS correct misgendering On The Spot, regardless of whose prescent, and have developed my own personal technique (there are many), that I end up making THEM the ones who slink off in embarrassment now. I feel for you in my heart, and my eyes water up thinking of you and all the rest of us who still have to take this shit. We're the true pioneers dear. The older "first generation" girls certainly started it, but WE are the ones who are going to force this society and culture to regard us with dignity and respect, even it it's only to our face, and they're really choking back rage at having to treat us properly. We must be strong, you already know this. It's just gets so tough sometimes. Your sister in trans, Ann

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This is an excellent post! Everyone should read it. Until you stand up for yourself, nothing will change and people will tend to run over you and hurt your feelings at will. I have fought this type of discrimination for 30+ years. Each and every time it has happened, I've call them out on it. I have never had it happen a second time at the same place. Some days it takes balls to be a woman.

I agree sometimes we have to make a judgment call about the method of standing up for ourselves.
A simple "its maam" is usually all you need...but a smirk would piss me off so bad I hope I would act..


a quick funny aside...one time I was helping a my friend Karen come home from her orchi... I had to pick her up... this was well over a year prior to my transition, and I went by Michele with my "T" friends at the time...

Anyway, i'm sitting in the waiting room with dozens of people...(you know where this is going), and the nurse comes out and says..."Michele...Michele...Karen ____ is in recovery and we will have her out as soon as possible.."

hehe.... so there I am in my pinstripe business suit..and I have to get up and respond to Michele....strangely enough, it didn't bother me at all...it hints at just how powerful it is to be gendered correctly..

...it is a flaw in the way medical services are provided. I once picked up a prescription for my daughter and they called me by her name... they just read what is printed on the label. To me it is really disturbing to have some much process that the people doing it become automatically stupid.

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Originally Posted by FurPus63

Does this three letter pronoun cause an emotional reaction within you?

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The emotional investment that you have made into this incident is not worth a thing. I know this sounds harsh, but I have learned from hard experience. To me it never happens in this kind of a context. But let me say, that occasionally most notably in the court room colleagues refer to me as Mr. ***** or he. They would never address me this way in letters or in a conversation. They always correct themselves. They are always apologetic. And invariably the judges on the record after the hearing or trial will apologize to me for the inappropriateness. It happens rarely and quite frankly I don't give a shit anymore. But I always correct them no matter what the setting, and in this I agree with Michelle.

So do you still correct people when you overhear a conversation about you between two other people? For instance, I stopped at the grocery store on my way home from work today. I was standing in the aisle deciding which type of bread I wanted to get. A woman with her daughter (about 12-13) walked by and the woman said to her daughter, "Be careful, you are in the lady's way." To which I heard the girl say back to her mother in a hushed tone, "Mom, that's a guy". Should I have interrupted and corrected the girl? I don't think so. In this case it might seriously upset the mom. But what if a similar conversation happened next to you between two adults? Then what?

I would like to think you did the right thing Cheyenne and would be willing to bet there was a conversation about this on the ride home between Mother and daughter.

Now as for me and the "sir" thing.

I live in Virginia and have even heard when cis-women get "sir'd". Now that is not to say it doesn't annoy the shit out of me when it happens to me. Usually when it happens to me it is someone that knew the male me. Because of this I can somewhat forgive them. What I can't do is bring myself to say something.

At my pharmacy, CVS btw, after I told them the name I was going to be using after I transitioned, which I did the first time I picked up my HRT patch and pills, they always addressed me as Rachel and my record in their puter was under both names. To them I was Randy where my insurance was involved but Rachel on my scripts when I picked them up.

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Originally Posted by FurPus63

"how can I help you, SIR!!!!!"

Transition is hard! Being Transsexual sucks sometimes!

Paulette

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I don't know what to say..... I was all out shopping with a bunch of CD girls a couple months ago and a store clerk kept referring to us as "you guys" and I didn't like it.

If I were in your shoes my first response is, "yes you can help me you son of a bitch and what rock did you just crawl out from under?" In saying all of that it might not be the right thing to do. Simply walking up and saying that I am not a SIR anymore would be more appropriate.

Yes, being TS sucks, I can't imagine.

I like to default to assuming the situation is an error and escalate it from there. I once was buying a dress when I had a full beard and the cashier called me ma'am. I just grinned at the lady behind me and she busted out laughing. So being in a rush and not paying attention is the first level. The second level is those that have no experience with us. I certainly look to educate these people as education does help make it better for the next person and we may just gain a supporter. Then there are those being ignorant and they deserve the flamethrower turned up on high. Maybe I am blessed, but I haven't had to turn mine on yet. Don't get me wrong, all of these people are wrong. But the appropriate response is different in each case to me.

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Originally Posted by Launa

I don't know what to say..... I was all out shopping with a bunch of CD girls a couple months ago and a store clerk kept referring to us as "you guys" and I didn't like it. .

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Launa, being that I am originally from the northeast US, Pennsylvania to be exact, I have often heard cis-women refer to each other as "you guys". Just as when you are in the company of another couple you would say "would you guys like to go to dinner tonight"? That saying doesn't bother me one iota perhaps because I grew up around it. I am only bothered by it when it is me alone and I get "sir'd or dude that gets under my skin and sticks in my craw for a while.

Paulette, it happens sometimes. It happens to my wife a couple times a year. It happens to me if people give me a glance or hear my voice. When it does happen I simply say "pardon me" and they correct themselves, unless they were acting out of malice. But 9/10 people make an innocent (thought stupid) mistake.
I know back in college, working as a cashier I would misgender a customer by accident about once every two weeks. "SIR" would fall out of my mouth because 90% of the patrons were male.

When a ciswoman is called sir, it tends to be a momentary inconvenience. Where as a transwoman feels their legitimacy as a woman is being severely questioned. What's the difference? The ciswoman knows where she stands and has never questioned her gender, where we have toiled over our gender and will always hold a little insecurity in how the worlds sees us. In turn the ciswoman does not grant the word "sir" any power lets it go in a matter of minutes. While a transwoman may empower the word as a weapon of hate or spite that smashes the fragile female shell they developed. But if you don't give it the power, it rolls off like water off a ducks back.
Transpeople as a group are too sensitive, and too quick to anger myself included.

As a midwesterner, "you guys" is the same thing as "you folks" unless it is delivered with Malice, in which case the person is being a prick.

Being trans is what you make of it. Mine has not been easy, nor a tonne of fun. But all that B******T along the way made me who I am and makes me more mindful in how I go forward with my life.

you know how to reach me, FBook is the best way, as my phone has been on the fritz.

"Transpeople as a group are too sensitive, and too quick to anger myself included." Chloe, I don't like when you say this. All of my life I was given a hard time because people said I was too sensitive for a guy, now I am living my life as a woman and have to be told the same thing!? Sorry, but I have the right to feel anyway I need to feel and I can't stand it when people say, "oh you're just too sensitive." Besides, we t-girls have a lot to be sensitive about. We are going through way more emotional upheavel than any cisgender woman can possibly imagine. Being transsexual and suffering with gender dysphoria; causes us to suffer emotionally throughout life, so a lot of us if not all of us tend to be sensitive. I don't think this is a bad thing. I think it's perfectly fine.

Paulette

Remember Hanlon's Razor:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Yes, you can get angry at the woman or beat yourself up over it, but the fact is that it was a simple mistake. I've made the same mistake, misgendering another poster in this thread. The moment the word slipped from my lips I wished I could retrieve it and I still feel bad about the incident because I know that I caused her pain. She understands the nature of simple mistakes and has forgiven me.

Have you considered turning this into a learning experience for the clerk in question? Rather than blowing up at her or her supervisor, perhaps you could have said pleasantly "Excuse me, but when dealing with trangendered persons please understand that we prefer to be addressed as the gender we are presenting." That way, the next time you saw her she would have either learned from the experience and addressed you correctly or you would have much better cause for taking the issue to her supervisor.

We are all ambassadors. If we blow up at people who are inexperienced at dealing with TG individuals and who make simple mistakes we will deserve the reputation of being hostile and self-centered. This does not foster an attitude of acceptance. If we hold our tongues and put a bit of effort into educating the ignorant we will improve the situation for everyone.

Eryn

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Originally Posted by FurPus63

Being transsexual and suffering with gender dysphoria; causes us to suffer emotionally throughout life, so a lot of us if not all of us tend to be sensitive.

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It's okay to be sensitive. I'm too sensitive too. A lot of us are sensitive by nature, it's natural for women on average to be way more sensitive than men. Being sensitive has a lot of great qualities too. It's okay to feel. Personally I'd rather feel way too much than not feel at all.

Some of you mentioned the phrase "you guys" being used towards cis-gendered women. I would have to agree that this happens all the time and is completely normal, especially if a group consists of both men and women. Even groups of entirely cis-gendered women might be sometimes called "you guys" - unfortunately it's called "male privilege". I have heard cis-gendered women complain that the AA Big Book is sexist since it always used "he" pronouns, even though it is speaking to both male and female alcoholics. Lots of books use the male pronouns when referring to people, sadly this is how the world is.

I agree getting "sir'ed" sucks, and I'm sorry to hear that it happened to you.

This post is written in response to OP'S post to me OP's writings are Navy blue.

"Transpeople as a group are too sensitive, and too quick to anger myself included." Chloe, I don't like when you say this.
You don't have to like it, it is my opinion from interactions I have had within our local commuity over the last 5 years.
All of my life I was given a hard time because people said I was too sensitive for a guy, now I am living my life as a woman and have to be told the same thing!?
This may seem odd but this is my experience also. And yes, I am saying the same thing to you now, just like my cis girlfriends did to me. My first therapist said the same thing to me " these things will happen, some by accident some to be mean. If you don't fluff it off and move on then you are empowering them. you are allowing them to make you feel bad."
Sorry, but I have the right to feel anyway I need to feel and I can't stand it when people say, "oh you're just too sensitive."
You do have the right to feel that way, and you are 100% entitled to feel that way. I acknowledge your opinion. I see us as being "overly sensitive" where the slightest touch crumples us like tissue in the wind.

Besides, we t-girls have a lot to be sensitive about. We are going through way more emotional upheavel than any cisgender woman can possibly imagine. Being transsexual and suffering with gender dysphoria; causes us to suffer emotionally throughout life, so a lot of us if not all of us tend to be sensitive. I don't think this is a bad thing. I think it's perfectly fine.
Starting at the top, I can't stand the term tgirl, due to the use of it in the porn industry.
Being trans to be blunt is not a good time. However, I can't agree with your statement that we have more upheaval than "any" ciswoman, I will agree that we have more than "most" ciswomen. I know we don't all suffer the same, does my lack of severe dysphoria make me less trans than someone that can't look at their genitalia? Surely, it does not. I will say that there is generational forces at work here also. Which lays out a good chunk of our differences of opinion. As the the age of "coming out" keeps getting lower, so does the amount of emotional torment lessen.
This is because the "socialization" aspect of womanhood is developed earlier, allowing the person more peers of their identified gender. It is harder for us to build that peer group out of thin air the older we are.
And my last point, that I will extract from your quote ", so a lot of us if not all of us tend to be sensitive." And make it this:, so a lot of us if not all of us that we see, tend to be sensitive. Because the ones that are not overly sensitive are living in the world and no longer going to groups or visiting message boards. If we strictly pull the sample from those people than the first statement holds water. But if you include the outliers and about half of people of those living as stealth holes start to rapidly form.

Chloe, here's what I want to say about transgender women being oversensitive. We're women, and we're sensitive. Get used to it.

Chloe, you just admitted that you're oversensitive too. Get over it. Being oversensitive is just a normal part of being female, trans or cis.

Paulette, it's okay to be sensitive. The psychic used to tell me that I was oversensitive too. She told me that I was oversensitive for a guy, and that I was more oversensitive than her female clients, and that I am "half man, half woman" when we first met. Then she has the nerve to tell me that she sees me having "more male" reincarnations and that I have "more male energy" than female energy. And she doesn't even remember saying any of this to me - she doesn't remember telling me anything that I call her on saying. God, I am sensitive and I remember everything you tell me. And the psychic, just like a man, tells me that she doesn't remember saying that. Maybe the psychic is really a man trapped in a woman's body. She really is a he, and I really am a she.

Oh shit, I really am a woman.

@ Michelle789, of course you are really a woman, we all are, well except the transmen here. :)
And I agree about the "Male Privilege" problem, mentioned in you're prior post. I spend more time at women's groups then I do at trans groups. At those groups, I do not feel "othered" by being trans. We are sisters working together as a united force trying to change the patriarchal system.
Truth be told, once I stopped putting the "Trans" before everything in my identity, I found I was able to get over most things.

It's one thing when people you know slips and calls you by your old name or the wrong pro-noun. They feel awful about it so I'm not going to make them feel worse. But when it's someone in customer service it's different. I was full time and just came from work so I was wearing nice clothes, had my hair and makeup all done nice. I stop by a clothing store to buy my daughter in-law a gift card for her birthday. While in line I saw some cute jewelry so I grabbed a couple of things. So I'm standing there holding some jewelry my purse and this twenty something young woman says sir can I help you. Then during the transaction she sir me two more times. When I got into the parking lot I was first pissed at my self for not asking for a manager or confronting her. Then I thought I don't know how confronting her in the middle of the store would help me. So I looked a the receipt and called the 800 number this was a national store. I talked to someone from costumer relations and told them who I was and that I was a transsexual woman and it did not matter to what degree I passed, but when someone is clearly presenting as a woman it's so rude to refer to them as sir. I told them there are lots of other stores that treat me with respect. I also told them how it made me feel and I didn't what it to happen to someone else. I told them this is a training opportunity and they agreed with me and were very apologetic. I felt much better after that I did something.

Janelle, of course they were apologetic. That's their job! They are apologetic to everyone who calls.

Now, what happened with the information you provided? Probably nothing, or perhaps a note on the monthly "complaint report" to the store manager that there was one complaint from a trangendered person.

However, let's assume that the "best case" scenario happened. The information was passed rapidly back to the store manager who immediately called the sales associate on the carpet for her insensitivity. I'll bet she shaped right up and won't misgender anyone again for as long as she works there. She'll also remember the incident and silently resent every transgendered person she meets. She'll complain to her friends and associates about the "tranny who got her into trouble." In short, you've won the battle but lost the war.

Now, let's back up and consider a simpler solution. If you don't like the way that she addresses you, then politely correct her with an explanation. Say "Pardon me, but transgendered people prefer to be addressed as the gender we are presenting and it is hurtful when you don't." By doing this you are putting a human face on the hurt she has caused and it is likely that she will understand and change her ways willingly. If she doesn't, then you can still take it upstairs.

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Originally Posted by Eryn

We are all ambassadors. If we blow up at people who are inexperienced at dealing with TG individuals and who make simple mistakes we will deserve the reputation of being hostile and self-centered. This does not foster an attitude of acceptance. If we hold our tongues and put a bit of effort into educating the ignorant we will improve the situation for everyone.
Eryn

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Thank you Erin -- as a non-confrontational person this is how I would like to deal with this situation.

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Originally Posted by Rachel Smith

Launa, being that I am originally from the northeast US, Pennsylvania to be exact, I have often heard cis-women refer to each other as "you guys". Just as when you are in the company of another couple you would say "would you guys like to go to dinner tonight"?

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It seems that more and more "you guys" is becoming gender-neutral. Here is Florida my wife uses it all the time regardless of gender.

On the rare time when I get called sir, I just figure they are either trying to be pricks or do not understand english very well.
In either case, it bothers me for a moment but no more.

Also, is your name legally changed? That often does wonders for how we are gendered.

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Originally Posted by Claire Cook

Thank you Erin -- as a non-confrontational person this is how I would like to deal with this situation.

It seems that more and more "you guys" is becoming gender-neutral. Here is Florida my wife uses it all the time regardless of gender.

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I had never thought about it until a kiosk attendant referred to Persephone and me as "you guys" while shopping. It was one of the first times I had gone out and it definitely scared me. Later on I realized that many women, particularly young women, use "you guys" to refer to groups of males or females. In fact, her use of the term indicated that she was comfortable with us and wasn't being defensively careful to avoid misgendering. I much prefer that to the salesperson who uses "ma'am" and "you ladies" too much!

Oh, BTW, it's "Eryn" not "Erin" :)

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Originally Posted by Nicole Erin

On the rare time when I get called sir, I just figure they are either trying to be pricks or do not understand english very well.
In either case, it bothers me for a moment but no more.

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An excellent, and healthy attitude!

Misgendering has only happened a couple of times to me. It hurt each time, but then I remembered that people can only make me feel bad with my permission.

"you guys" is not a gendered term.

As far as hearing "sir", It is very easy to get caught up in the emotion of it. It's a bad experience no matter how you react.

Although I am certainly more likely to express and indulge my feelings now, I still try to corral them if they cause me any distress or get me too upset.

You said you were picking up a prescription for t-blockers. She would know that. She was trying to be a smart A-- . Very unprofessional . You could talk to management.

You look great. Keep being you and thanks for helping others.

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Originally Posted by Eryn

I much prefer that to the salesperson who uses "ma'am" and "you ladies" too much!.

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Eryn here in the south ma'am is used to address a woman just as sir is used to address a man. You did make me do some research and this is what I found. It's roots lay in the word madam which is used as a polite way to address a woman, dictionary.com.

ma'am
also maam, 1660s, colloquial shortening of madam (q.v.). Formerly the ordinary respectful form of address to a married woman; also dictionary.com

The problem IMHO is to younger people it conjures up visions of an old lady and that is why so many younger females take offense to it. Not so here in the south. Here everyone is either ma'am or sir until they prove they don't deserve it then they are bitch and asshole, lol.

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Originally Posted by FurPus63

say, ". We are going through way more emotional upheavel than any cisgender woman can possibly imagine.
Paulette

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Talk about being offended? This quite frankly offended me. What do you know about the suffering of a cisgender women? This comment ranks right up there with all the comments from cross dressers about being more feminine than women. You are a counselor by your own admission. Have a little tolerance and quit taking yourself so seriously. You are only hurting yourself. I think Eryn had a great suggestion. It is true that you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Think about it.

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Originally Posted by Eryn

Have you considered turning this into a learning experience for the clerk in question? Rather than blowing up at her or her supervisor, perhaps you could have said pleasantly "Excuse me, but when dealing with trangendered persons please understand that we prefer to be addressed as the gender we are presenting." That way, the next time you saw her she would have either learned from the experience and addressed you correctly or you would have much better cause for taking the issue to her supervisor.

We are all ambassadors. If we blow up at people who are inexperienced at dealing with TG individuals and who make simple mistakes we will deserve the reputation of being hostile and self-centered. This does not foster an attitude of acceptance. If we hold our tongues and put a bit of effort into educating the ignorant we will improve the situation for everyone.

Eryn

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I agree that calling out someone is a bad idea. Just correct them; if they persist, ask if they have an issue with their vision...

And I hate this "we're all ambassadors" thing. I represent myself, an individual.

I'll start by saying I have a lot of respect for anyone who transitions. This has to be the hardest thing anyone can do in life. You stand to lose family and friends, lose your career and lose your history. The general public doesn't understand you and many will not like you.

That said, if you are being routinely addressed as "sir" by strangers, you have to look in the mirror. What is it about your appearance that is projecting "male"? Your hair? Your beard shadow (obviously)? Your figure? Strangers can't know if you are on hormones, they can't know what is between your legs or what is on your mind.

Look in the mirror or have trusted friends help with suggestions to look more feminine. You may need a new hairstyle or wig. You may need breast forms or implants. You may need hip and butt padding. You'll only beat yourself up complaining about how people see you if you don't work to make yourself look on the outside how you feel on the inside.

As for getting clerks fired for making a simple mistake - Would you want that happening to you? Would you want to lose your job for one simple error? Is being called "Ma'am" so important to you that you would have a person fired and their family on public assistance?

I think politely correcting the person and going on with life is the best way to handle this.