Glad to be a man. Even though I wore woman clothing.
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Glad to be a man. Even though I wore woman clothing.
What did you expect those people to call you if you had six days worth of stubble on your face? They were calling you by the recognized gender and not the clothes you were wearing.
Well, much as I admire your efforts at going out as you do, if you do have a good stubble growth, short hair and no wig or makeup and present as manly (apart from the clothes) what else would they call you?
Just a comfortable outing is all. Simply one example that a guy can go out in female clothing without issue.
Nice to hear that they were civil and friendly. But the world we live in still expect a binary gender,and so they need to use sir or madam, or none at all. So since they did not use none, I imagine the greeter was politely but intentionally noting that you were non-conforming.
What would have preferred they say?
Would you be willing to try to more completely look feminine and see if the pronoun changes?
Have others tried this experiment?
Nice discussion on where society stands. Could you provide the region or estimate how TG friendly area the area is?
Hugs, Ellen
I was pleased they were friendly and called me sir. To me that indicates they saw me as a confident man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
Ya think? You were presenting as a MALE wearing feminine clothing. Women's clothing does not make anyone a woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
Meh.
If I had a nickel for every time I got called "Ma'm"......from behind.....with nothing but my long hair to go by, I'd be rich.
It's always fun to watch them squirm when they realize they've made a mistake. :)
:brolleyes: what did you want. You have been on here for weeks now, you have made it clear you are a MAN who likes dressing. Ya gets what ya pays for. If you don't want "sir" wear a name tag
On the contrary. I was very happy to be accepted and recognized and called sir and not ignored and called nothing. I think everyone new to going out in public should be excited when they feel accepted.
I say that what you proved is that maybe where you went the folks were nice and could care less if you enjoy wearing Capri pants, panty hose women's shoes, pink purse, blouse and a purse. I would say the employees of shopping area are very considerant to people and are probably trained to be that way.
Maybe now try it with full makeup and a wig with no stubble.
When I go out en-femme as full expression of self I get ma'amed and if I get sired I am disappointed by not deterred. There is no way I "pass" as female so in referring to me in the feminine is I believe a polite way of acknowledging my efforts to be me, even though they may not know my motives. If you are showing that you are just a man who enjoys wearing feminine clothing than what do you expect? you will get sired, it's better than a lot of other things you could be called.
They called you sir, but they may have assumed you were deranged and were possibly being polite for fear that you might bite them or something.
If you want to know what they really think, you would get a more objective response by befriending them and gradually getting them to let their guard down, then after say a year, quietly bringing up the subject of stubbled men who wear dresses.
I very much look forward to your continuing experiments.
Best wishes, Nikki
I don't think deranged would be on their mind. I delivered a friendly smile and spoke politely. I don't think they perceived me as a threat.
billy has been posting as a man for a few weeks now, he shared that he went out as himself in womens clothes, crossdressed, he went out in clothes that he liked, to him they were merely clothes, he was true to himself and yet there seems to be some discord and some felt they needed to give a dig at how he choose to present, he presented as a man in a dress, that is his thing, you have your thing, i have mine....
good on you billy for getting out and being your"self",
happy that it was pleasant for you and folks seemed to not have a problem how you presented.
i have witnessed what i will assume are like minded folks, one time at a payless, same presentation, few days growth, LBD.....no wig or makeup, i tried to linger to see if i could hear any comments, a few second looks from folks, the SA was pleasant, but no time to linger any further....
Personally I hate being called sir, makes me feel like I'm old. :D
I think it's great you're comfortable enough to go out dressed, Billy, if only all of us could feel that comfortable, but I'm slowly coming along with it myself.
You present as a man in womens clothes so what did you expect to happen?
If you are nice to people generally they are nice back so whats the problem and again what did you expect?
A thought crossed my mind as I passed a sports bar on my way home from the store today. I thought that if I went into a facility, sat down and had a few cocktails and then decided to frequent that facility, after a while, the regulars would think nothing of Billy in women's clothing.
It seems you are all about the shock factor and wanting to see how others react.
I will say you play with fire long enough you will get burned eventually.
All it takes is one Bubba that hates what you are to come down on you hard.
You feel the need to throw things in peoples faces they will turn on you.
Be warned is all I'm saying
That's probably true Billy. Once people get used to it they probably will only notice if you show up in drab.
Why would you insinuate that I throw things in peoples faces? I am respectful, pleasant, and kind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
That's OK I was wearing jeans and t-shirt albeit women's and no wig or makeup gave the woman my male name and she proceeded to call me mam for the next hour. I wasn't even wearing a bra. I did notice later I had a lot of sagging projection without one. Maybe it is my meds.
You have your own way of dressing and you are more than free to do as you wish.
So maybe its not throwing things in peoples faces technically but six days of beard growth wearing a blouse ,skirt.purse how do you think that looks to most people?
Again do what you want I'm not going to argue with you.
I wouldn't doubt that you are Billy, but sooner or later, especially in a bar, you'll come across someone who isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
The bar I passed when the thought crossed my mind is a nice upper scale sports bar/Italian restaurant. They have a regular crowd of respectable clientele. I would think if I became a regular and some hoodlum entered and started to cause trouble, the hoodlum would be the one to get thrown out.
Why do folks need to call you anything? If they are interacting with you all they need to do is to say "hello, can I help you". They don't need to say sir, mam, or miss. All they need to do is to be polite and helpful.
Billy, I think u LIKE being noticed and the center of attention when you're out. Otherwise, there's no way you'd go out dressed that way.:eek:
I'm good with that for u!:thumbsup:
But I, on the other hand, do not. The only way I can go out and not attract attention is to wear loose, sloppy, granny gear. And, for me that is NOT crossdressing. It's wearing a despicable disguise. So, I simply won't go out dressed to vanilla venues if I can avoid it!:)
I am not exactly sure what motivates my dressing. I do not however think it is the shock factor. If it was only shock, I would not have told this to my wife and son. I would have just gone out and shocked people. I love my wife and kids. If it was shock, the thought about being treated as normal as a regular at the bar would not have crossed my mind. There are 19,354 incorporated areas in the United States. If only one crossdresser in each of these areas did what I am doing, men wearing dresses would be common place in the US. I just want to be able to wear what I want to wear.
We need an emogi for rolleyes!
Aha! I found it! :brolleyes:
Sounds a little like High-Heel Neil: The story of High-Heel Neil (reprint)
Taylor
After some disappointing responses to my questions and posts, thanks to you and this article I finally have made a connection with my dressing.
Seriously I Thank You. I forwarded the article to my wife to read. Very good article.
I didn't mention "shock", Billy, because it didn't occur to me. But, do u shock some people?:eek:
It may appear so but it is a bar and there is alcohol and there is testosterone (see "sports bar"). While you may be tolerated, especially for a short time, it is doubtful they will take you under their wing if you drive off customers or become something that attracts attention. Remember it is someone else's business you are, or could be, disrupting. And pack mentality is a bad thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy
Let us know how that works for you. Also it's a long way from the front door to your car if they DO get thrown out. In some areas you are the hoodlum because you are causing the disruption. The owner could call you a nuisance or annoyance. While you may think you are protected, you may check your local and state laws about hate crimes and trans-protection. That skirt doesn't stop black eyes.Quote:
would think if I became a regular and some hoodlum entered and started to cause trouble, the hoodlum would be the one to get thrown out.
I side with the shock value people on this. Trust me as one who has been in the LGBT community for years. What you think is acceptance (and it is more acceptable in the LGBT community than the muggle community) is really tolerance and it has limits. I can't decide if you are brave or you just don't get the danger.
I agree and well said Lorileah.
Tolerance is not acceptance and to confuse the two is foolishness.
LOl sorry Lorileigh in my past life my name tag read bad dog get off the couch and stop licking that ! leave it to a far northerner to display hiss/her sense of bizzare humorQuote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah;
You see Billy how wonderfully accepting this crowd here can be. You are an adult and are more than capable of accepting and dealing with the consequences of your own decisions and actions. You sound like you know what you are doing and are discovering your own freedom to be yourself. Around here, it recently seems like a lot of members here want to coerce everyone to do it their way, or heaven forbid, you are setting a bad example for the community that some of those same people say that the do not belong to. It appears that they don't read what they write and apparently don't realize that they sound just like some people out there in the other real world who say the same about all of us as we try to be ourselves.
I have been here for quite a few years and it really is interesting how we still cannot support others similar to ourselves who decide to present differently from the majority. No one here has to follow your path or adapt your style, or even like it, but I would expect most here to support your right to do what you do. We have had several members, not many around here now, maybe for obvious reasons, who presented as men in dresses with or without a wig and with or without facial hair. I must say that this recent attitude is actually worse than before. They want live and let live and then won't support that in their own community.
Billy, keep the faith and do what you need to do. Hopefully this negative attitude will lessen and go away and your posts will be better received.
Mikell, Thanks for the good post.
No one isn't accepting Billy, just wondering about the agenda. The OP was about being called "sir". The OP has stated many times that they are a man wearing a skirt or dress. Conclusion, they are called "sir" because of presentation. Billy has had plenty of acceptance and kudos when they said they weren't following the standard here. However, what did the OP think they response to their post would be? "Ah man, Billy that sucks. You presented as not a woman and not a man. They should have called you...um...uh...."? Maybe we missed the point of the OP? Maybe they were happy they were called "sir" and wanted to state that? Can you point out where the rest of us went astray on our interpretation?
We all know Billy is pushing the envelope. Hey, that's great. MLK did it. Gloria Steinem did it. Cesar Chavez did it. Stonewall patrons did it. I have seen nothing here saying how Billy presents is wrong.
Billy seems to be accepted here Allie.
He is different thats for sure which is fine.
Maybe its the manner in which he posts and responds to others.
He comes off judgemental and semi homophobic at times is all I have noticed.
Just for educational purposes I want to share this tidbit. Bearing in mind that I am transgender and have been on hormones for several months, I have learned that if I don't take care of the beard stubble or shadow, I get "sirred" just about all the time, even if I am wearing relatively feminine clothing. On the other hand, if I go to the trouble of laying on the makeup and making sure the beard shadow is taken care of, then I get called ma'am and treated as a woman.
This observation was a major factor in leading me to cross the rubicon of arranging for permanent facial hair removal via laser therapy. After two sessions, I am already at a point where I need a lot less concealer to banish the shadow.
If you want to go for genderqueer and don't mind being gendered male, then enjoy it. But if you want to be gendered female, then it's time to get a close shave, and break out the foundation, the concealer, and the sponges.
While Billy may seem to be accepted by many here, I for one do not see any humor in his posts
I guess what seem's out of sorts to me is why is Billy posting in the male to female thread section
He is clearly a male wanting to be seen as a male with no attempt to be feminine other that a few articles of outerwear and enough facial hair to make a coal miner say "dude did you forget to shave this week"
Given the pressure the community in under right now I find Billy's presentation an insult to all of us who are spending much time and effort to be as feminine as we can despite all the testosterone poisoning we have gone through and are working feverishly to overcome
I am a live and let live person, so I wish you good luck in your adventures............... but with all due respect you do not represent me or my fellow MTF sisters by going out like you do.......last thing we need right now is your agenda to shock and awe everyone
Lauri,
I am sorry you feel the way you do. I never intended any humor in any of my posts. I am new to this and am simply trying to wrap my mind and conscience around the entire issue. From everything I have read there is not a one size fits all or standard for cross dressing. I have heard there is a huge variation and people need to find what they are comfortable with. I am trying to do that.
I think Billy is a troll and is just playing us! There, I said it!
I must say I agree with LaurieK Toni
I am not a trollQuote:
Originally Posted by MelanieAnne
Best suggestion, ever, to the pronoun discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
Don't know why you are surprise. It's just natural human reaction, they could offend the person too if that person identify as male. Even on your profile you name yourself Billy instead of a female name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauri K
because...As long as it stays within the rules, anyone can post here. That said, no matter what your personal feelings are, be nice. Billy seems to be on a journey of exploration and questioningQuote:
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I would have to think that some of you can understand what I am going thru. I want to maintain an honest relationship with my wife. I have other threads as I am sure you are aware. One titled something about the thrill being gone and another about would you crossdress everyday if everyone knew. Those are questions I ask myself and do not know the answer to. If I wake up and can choose what to wear what would I choose today? If I can do that freely for days, weeks, months, or years, would I still want to wear ladies clothing? I don't know. I do know that I was analyzing the clothing to myself yesterday as I was driving to the casino. The slacks were very light and comfortable. Unlike any jeans or trousers I have ever worn before. The panties are truly more comfortable than male briefs. The shoes are comfortable and add to my shorter height and are easy and comfortable to walk in. So to recap the wardrobe and speculate. What I was wearing from head to toe was very comfortable. If I can find very comfortable clothing that looks appealing I would wear it.
With six day stubble, what did you expect?
Billy don't let the nay sayers get too you , I find the responses in general here are a bit counter productive ,meaning a forum is usually used to help encourage others especially the new members ,you seem very comforable with the style in which you present and that is more important than if you are considered femminine enough in others eyes here I could not pass even if I shoveled the makeup on so I am happy being a tomboy /girl as it were , to the rest of the posters who are in teardown mode perhaps you might reflect on your early days ,afterall you you were new once too