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In the past 10 years there has been so much in the new about gay rights and gay pride marches. Gay folks are really making great strides and are much more readily accepted by society. Why isn't the same happening for crossdressers? Crossdressers are never in the news and when they are, it is always in a negative light. :Angry3:
Probably several reasons. Foremost I would say the media. They like to cover stories about the guy trying to bras or something, usually the seedy stuff. The media also likes to cover stories about cd in general, usually negative. For example. "Man pulled over wearing a halter top and high heels." A combination of the weirdo to being mocked. When was the last time you heard about a women getting pulled over wearing jeans and tennis shoes?
Then there is the separation in the cd community. The causal wear jeans to sandals guy, certainly doesn't want to be lumped in the guys who are wearing bras and breast forms.
I'd love to see the cd community get more active politically. But even more than that, I don't wish it was a "cd" thing. It should be an everybody thing. Do you hear from womens cd groups they have the right to wear pants? Certainly not.
There are a lot more lesbians and gays that are out than crossdressers who are out. The majority of us are locked in the dark recesses of our closets.
You can take action:
Contact your local, state and federal legislators and ask them to support transgender rights.
Stand up for transgender rights in your workplace. It is not necessary to out yourself by standing up against discrimination.
If you are out, be a positive role model.
Most Pride events include transgendered people, find out when your local Pride event is and participate.
Remember, if you do not choose to stand up for your rights don't expect anyone else to.
I agree with what you said if you do nothing then nothing will ever change.Quote:
Originally Posted by trannie T
i think it's very easy to focus on the current state of affairs and forget how much progress has already been made by our sisters that have gone before us. You only need read the stories of those growing up in the the post war era and later to see that it wasn't uncommon for us to be 'treated' by doctors for our condition with utterly barbaric methods such as electric shock and so forth. Whilst we still have a long way to go before we reach the levels of public acceptance that the gay and lesbian movement has reached we must also understand the pain and effort that they have put in to get to where they are now.
It doesn't help either that , as has already been said , there are so many sub groups within the TG umbrella that we virtually have no unity identity on which to campaign. We fight and bicker within ourselves and present so many different identities that if we have trouble understanding ourselves the average joe member of public has even less chance of doing so.
Society and it's perspective of us is changing and i think this thread only shows too well . it may not be where we wish is to be and it never will be unless we are willing to go out there and fight for the advances that gay right movement have rightfully achieved
I think that all of the above post`s are about right, the thing is that if you are gay then that is it "you are gay" but if you are a cross dresser then that can mean so many different things and i think that is where the problem lies, the diversity of cross dressing is are own enemy the man in the skirt doe`s not want to be classed the same as the man who go`s 24/7 and vice averse but what they should all realise is that they will all help one another in the long run.
joanne
The problem is that how can members of the TG community come out and shout for their rights in the public domain when the majority of them are hiding it from their own partners/spouses and family.
Mostly the general public puts us in the Gay group. They think that because we dress like females that we want to be with males, which is not the case with most CDers. We are heterosexual and this is the point that many people out there do not know.
I agree we need to be recongnised as being different from Gays and so called normal people. But bad publicity is what we get most of the time.
Like was mentioned earlier, most CDers are still in the closet and haver not come out yet and are afraid to do so. If it were not for this forum many of us would still be unknown. Many of us would think that we were the only ones who felt the way we do. Thank GOD for this forum.
We could use some fresh Ideas about how to show the world we are here and most of us are not GAY! As a matter of fact many of us have normal lives in the so called real world. Doctor, Lawyers, Truck Drivers, Racers, We are everywhere, but not ready to come out yet as we would probably get the wrong reaction.
Very true. It is a closeted community.Quote:
Originally Posted by skirt_lover
I am a crossdresser who does the full transformation thing - wig, makeup, breast forms etc - and I go out in public that way, and to be honest, I don't feel I have much in common with a man who only wears women's underwear under his male clothing. Yet we are both labeled crossdressers. I don't see how my needs dove-tail with someone like that.
I don't think crossdressers are ready to be politically active. I think we have to be socially active and that means being visible. Politicians no longer seem willing to stick their necks out for small segments of their constituencies (even Barny Frank couldn't support the TG community).
What I have noticed over the past dozen years or so is that the transgender community seems to wait for other people - Oprah, Phil, whatever - to tell our stories for us, rather than tell our own stories ourselves. Then we sit around and complain about how no one understands.
Oh great, now you've got me started!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Wannabe
Amy, I agree with you, but this proves the the original claim of this thread - nothing has changed much. Twelve years ago I thought I was the only one.
It's mostly an individual thing by nature. Folks will get "involved" only when and if they are ready to.
Yvonne, yes but now you know differently. With the help of the Internet more and more of us are coming out and more and more becomming active. Still not enough to tilt the balance but improving day by day. Rome wasn't built in a day and it will be a long, long struggle - but I genuinely think things are improving - particularly the greater tolerence of the young.Quote:
Originally Posted by yms
MANY would be a better word. And why is it so important for the world to hear you say you're not gay?Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Wannabe
If you want to be seen, step outside your home.
It seems to me many religius groups also label us a gay and throw readings in our faces.
When Eddie Izzard became famous, I was hopeful that his CDing would be a catalyst to new thinking on behalf of the drab majority.
Sadly, it looks as though he has now become a total straight. He famously used to wear glamourous nail polish whatever he was doing - television shows, standup gigs etc., but even that has gone. Sacrificed on the altar of commercial success. Ah well.....
There are "women cd groups"? Where? :raisedeyebrow:Quote:
Originally Posted by noname
You took the words right outta my mouth, Karen. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab Karen
But doesn't Eddie have the right to NOT dress if he so desires? He's not the poster child for the CD community. Anyone who wants equality should get out there and speak up and not depend on others to do it for them. People who live in glass houses and all that. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by KayR
I think that the media views cross dressers as some kind of weird part of our varied society and yet people who are openly gay can operate as normal and have the protection from the very same media.It does'nt seem fair and though i have no axe to grind with gay people, I found when my wife and i realised that i liked to dress en femme,at first I had to explain that it wasn't a gay thing,and that was her initial fear that she was losing her husband.Thankfully she was very understanding.
Why is it so bad that a guy who wants to wear a dress is looked upon as someone strange,while a woman can wear a mans suit and still look very sexy and be accepted?
Well I could go on and on ,but I expect you all feel a similar way,
Thanks Gina( Still trying todecide between Gina and Gena)
If we look at the gay community as a model for how our community might evolve, two events really focused them.
1. Stonewall, when the police tried to bust yet another gay club, to enforce the old "sodomy" statutes. The gays fought back, at first physically, then in the streets, in the press, and in the courts. It really unified the gay community, and henceforth they would unite under the single banner word "gay" rather than the subcommunities of "leather", "drag", and so on. Within a few months, for example, there was an unofficial "gay dress code" which almost all gays were wearing--polo shirt, short hair, chinos or jeans, regardless of subcommunity. This was part of a move to make daily appearance more mainstream. Sodomy laws were challenged and overturned, employment discrimination was replaced with employment rights guarantees, and so on.
2. The AIDS epidemic. The Religious Right tried to capitalize it as "The Gay Disease." Instead the gay community united once again to spearhead funding for research to find the cure. Millions of dollars were raised, and medical advances happened. The gay community turned the popular perception of them from "the spreaders of disease" to "the people who saved us from an epidemic" and won huge popular support in the process.
I'm not trying to ask for the negative, but only to comment that we need to be willing to unite as a community and to turn negative events into positive ones and publicize that.
Blessings,
Rikki
I was very surprised and delighted to find out there are, here is a quote from an article in the Winter 2007 edition of the "The Mirror" by Jayme Fay a MtF CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptLex
"I was recently a contestant in the 2007 Ms. Transgender Beauty Pageant of Houston. Sorry I didn't win but I had a lot of fun. This was really a Unity type event. All of the different groups in the Houston area were involved. Our escorts for the ball gown event were from S.T.A.G.(Some Transgenders Are Guys). It was interesting meeting female crossdressers as guys. They were great."
There was also a pic in the article showing Jayme and her FtM escort together. Pretty awesome IMO.:)
Crossdressers, Drag Queens etc were at the heart of the Stonewall Riots. One of the laws used to arrest people was about wearing clothes of the opposite gender! The first punch is attributed by some to have been thrown by a transexual.
And before that there was the Compton Cafeteria riot!
Somewhere though the transgender component got largely forgotten.
Often movements need 1 or more of the following:
A) A charismatic and inspiring leader.
B) A general mood of rebellion and change that inspires people broadly,a grassroots groundswell or popularity of activism as 'cool' or worthwhile.
C) A feeling of being cheated or of great injustice, often this comes surprisingly not when things are at their worst but when they are getting better but then fail to reach the foreseen levels or take a retrograde step
Though I think it was the rise of positive portrayels of gays in the entertainment media rather than just as tragic figures that gained gay people more acceptance.
Transguys, yes, but do they actually identify as crossdressers or as transmen? It's been my experience that very few transguys consider themselves crossdressers (not that there's anything wrong with that). :winkp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria2004
I don't know, I took it as they identified as crossdressers, but that's an interesting question. I'll look into it some more, I'd like to know the same thing.:Peace:Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptLex
Update: Ah well, your right, they're not crossdressers after all. It was nice for a little while anyway to think there were brothers who were actually sisters who had formed a group, I'll just have to keep looking.:cool:
I do think we are looked upon as being weird.. that everyone thinks we should be shamed, and made to feel ashamed.. I usually run for the bathroom or the bedroom when the doorbell rings unexpectedly.. and that has to do with how I feel dressed in whatever mode I am in.. as far as how I would like to feel when dressed, I'd like to feel like I'm not a pervert.. that I am the same person weather dressed up or in regular male mode clothing...
Not so long ago, gay/lesbians/bis were all in the closet just as much and many still are. Its a frightening experience to know you'll be hated for who you are (as you all are very well aware). But it was the act of coming out of that proverbial closet that really started to make the changes needed in society.
The fear of what GLB meant really started to fade more and more as "normal" people announced their sexuality.
Same would hold true for crossdressers.
It is the showing that you aren't a walking threat/virus/pervert or anything else negative (well... no more than the average person, lol) that will make the greatest impact on society over time. Its educating the masses that will ever make any of this acceptable behavior in any society.
I have tried that in a bigger way than you know but it back fired on me and i paid a very heavy price for it so that doe`s not always work for the individualQuote:
Originally Posted by CaptLex
joanne
We have come a long ways if you look over the last 50 years.
1950's
Cding was illegal in many states.
No discrimination protection anywhere
Getting beat up for being a CD was common and NOT against the law.
Most CDer were deep in the closet.
Never talked about on TV or media.
No SRS/FFS
TODAY
CDing is now legal in all states
Many states and cities have anti-discrimination laws that protect us.
Getting beat up for being a CD is NOW against the law.
With the invention of the Internet, more CDers are coming out of the closet.
Hardly a week does not go by that there is some form of media or TV exposure to CD/TSing.
SRS/FFS common today.
If I had gone out in public fully dress back then, I am sure someone would have pointed me out. Today even if someone does notice, they usually keep to themselves and/or done care.
So we have gain a lot over the last 50 years.
The thing is being gay or lesbian or bisexual is about sexuality.
Being TG is about gender.
Sexuality and gender are two different issues, but that's a post for another day.
If the TG community really want to try and make a point it should be that we are not part of the gay community. We are tagged onto the end of the gay scene because "society" does not know where else to put us and because"society" assumes that we are gay.
Nothing worth having is ever easy - in fact, it often comes with a heavy price. History is full of stories of hard-won freedoms: women's right to vote, the Stonewall riots, the civil rights movement, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by joanne f
Joanne, I'm not saying you personally should sacrifice your life, family, security, etc. I was speaking in general of those who want equal rights but want them at the expense of someone else's activities.
This is silly. The same people who accept gays accept us as well. The same people who cannot accept us also cannot accept gays.
Maybe my world is different from yours?
I really dont know why the Gay/Lesbian thing has to enter into this. The only real connection we have with them is that they preceeded us in gaining their rights and "acceptance" such as it is depending on where you are.
Now, there is a huge difference between a gay man wearing a Brooks Bros. suit sitting in a boardroom than there is a guy wearing heels and a Donna Karan suit at the same table. The same holds true in any aspect of public life. There is a credibility question that is raised. Someone who is gay does not wear a tee shirt proclaiming it so the perception of others is quite normal unless s/he is out and there are prejudices at play.
THAT is what has to be overcome; prejudices founded in ignorance, the same as the gays had to overcome it. Only when the public at large could see they were no threat did things ease up for them.
Still there are a lot of "right of center" elements that are in this ignorance group and no amount of advertising is going to change the fire and brimstone of Sunday mornings.
Sacrifices have to be made for sure and there are people who have made them; the trouble is no one in the law making community is listening. That is where the first steps have to be made and so far they are unsteady at best.
:hugs:
Kimberley
hello, two things really, is it not the case that gay's are generaly seen to have a medical problem, there for not their fault, so a modicum of acceptance. but a man in womens clothing is his choice there for a pervert. apolagees. one more thing as to acceptance im reading some books from the victorian eara, letters sent to papers, that suggest a wide spread theatrical life style for crossdressers but that was over a centery ago so no i don't beleave we have moved on at the rate that should now have our comunity at least accepted,
This thread is hardly started and there are already the signs of fragmentation over sexuality, etc.
The problem is that where we are accepted in law we are not in general life [so in word only]; we are left to get on with it, each fighting the same battle and the same pain over and over [individually].
Until there is an MP [or congress person, is it?] who is a tv then we will have no real influence. It's fine for someone to say 'I support the.....yada yada...blah' but unless they are one of us they don't know anything.
This site is a godsend though:sb:.
Sophia
Jayme Fay is like our adopted daughter. A beautiful person who we believe will win the 2008 Ms. Transgender Beauty Pageant of Houston. This past Saturday night she attended her first Houston Transgender Unity Banquet. She was on cloud nine. This years 16th annual Houston Transgender Unity Banquet broke all the records in attendance as the largest single city TG event in the US with over 100 large and small companies such as Shell Oil and Chase providing financial support for the banquet and sending representatives from their companies. Through their financial support we were able to raise over $12,000 for the Peggy Rudd TG Scholarship Fund (named in honor of my wife' ), for our Pride Parade participation and other annual activities. The Comptroller and future mayor of Houston presented a proclamation from the City of Houston proclaiming April 26 as Houston Transgender Unity Day. There were four Houston councilmen in attendance and one judge. Jenny Boylan (author of She's Not There) was our fabulous key note speaker. Jenny and our other visitors from the major TG activists groups in the country were in awe by what we have accomplish over the last 16 years in Houston. Yes, it can be done but it takes dedication, working together and a lot of time. We challenge other cities in the US to follow our lead.
Hugs,
Melanie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria2004
I've joined our GLBT support group at work. I've joined as a "Straight Allies" for now. We are a small group, out of a large corporation, there were maybe 15 of us at the last meeting. There are many more that belong to this group. I know of one TS in the group and she had SRS 30 years ago. She and I have had many discussions because just the two of us have different agendas.
Still after all these years she says HR still thinks Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity are lifestyles. Like, I like to go to my yacht on the weekends kind of lifestyle, as if it's a choice! Sexual Orientation & Gender Identity are woven together whether we like it or not. She's been fighting for health rights that still aren't covered after all these years. We don't have gender protection language in our HR manual like we do gay protection. And yet, there are still gays at work that fear coming out. We actually hold the meetings off site for this reason.
Now her question to me was, what do you want (in so many words)? Because with us, since we are changelings, people don't know how we want to be treated.
Her example: So Tracy, you show up at work on Mondays and Tuesdays and Wednesdays & Thursdays you are drab, and since it's Casual Friday, you come in something androgynous. How should people threat you? Are you going to change names? Do you wish to be treated as a women when you are dressed as such? Which bathroom will you use? What if people snicker now and we have this gender protection language, are you going to sue these insensitive people?
Now I know I said I wish to be treated with respect, but do you see what others may see? And in this outlandish case, does the company now have to have third sex bathrooms? Because now it's a matter of accommodation. This is what they are afraid of. What do we have to do now to accommodate this group of people, will it never end?
And to be honest, I told her all I want at this time, is if the information of my CDing became common knowledge through no direct action of myself. That I would be protected from being fired. Plan and simple. I have no desire to dress as Tracy at work (OK maybe Halloween, but like that's different!) and I don't want to put in everyones face either. I think it would be nice sometimes if everybody knew and therefore understood me a little better and not hate me for it.
So do you see? I don't know what I want. Many girls here couldn't make a list of requirements and agree on them. So certainly trying to put anything in legal type language would be a nightmare.
One, last note, the media does treat us badly. But do we write or call them and tell them it is not appropriate? If we don't start standing up on this point, it's going to be harder to establish all the others.
-Tracy
We can be our own worst enemies sometimes- well, not quite as the red-neck with a 12 gauge is probably our worst enemy- but you know what I mean.
We do tend to get hung up on lables, whether we should be added to the LGB acronym or not and sometimes real homophobia expressed from within our ranks.
The LGBT community is generally a safe place for us, they understand persecution, we share some of the bumps in the road but in terms of acceptance we're 50 years behind.
This could be because Trans = Pervert in so many minds. We live in a world where even in Western "Liberal" Democracies the "Trans Panic" defence is still trotted out when a straight guy kills a trans-woman. Not if, when.
Also the confusion about what Trans means (which includes the whole sexuality thing) can be played out in our own heads and is just as confusing to LGB folks as so-called straights.
I've spent quite a few evenings attempting to explain to Lesbian and Gay folks that I don't fancy blokes, at all, in no way ever....... honest. And no I don't protest too much.
How do I explain that I feel feminine 100% of the time but not 100% feminine? Or that I have no intention of transitioning, not just because I'm too much of a coward.
The understanding of GRS is so dreadful too- the very thought threatens our patriarchal society, horrifies many feminists as they think guys are muscling in on their patch and sends the religious fundamentalists in to a blind rage.
What we need is to get beyond the questions to the point where it is only the nuts working to de-homo sheep that actually care what causes homosexuality or Trans-ness. Acceptance that it's real, not a threat and not going to go away.
That there's no cure because we ain't sick.
All this means we have a mountain to climb, but I've got my boots (with nice heels) on and am at the foot hills just now, maybe I'll see us get to base camp before I die? I hope so, for all our sakes.
This is the reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by skirt_lover
People need to get out and stop hiding, only then will things change.
[SIZE="3"]Quote:
Originally Posted by trannie T
I agree with you, Trannie. Not enough of us are out there. I've been out in public many times and didn't out myself. I'm not afraid of being out in public. I marched in the vets parade twice and I was dressed. I try to be positive model because there may be someone who may be struggling or trying understand what we are about.
Gennee[/SIZE]
:)
Jamie, IMHO you said the big reason.
They gays showed their numbers and many many many came out. When we start seeing TG/CD rallies and marches and a lot more CD's and TG's come out in the public eye we will see some action and change happen. But many of us have families and if they are like myself they are afraid of the affects of coming out on our family. Look how long it is taking Susan (steve) to get a job after being fired from Largo. Along with loosing a family setting to live in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie001
Referring to Melanie R, TSchapes, and Fiona K
It is so good that someone, somewhere is having a 'tg day' and that it is supported by people in power.
Law/health and safety are hardly going to help us: legal langage is only 1/2 what is sensibly expressable and needs the boot for wasting time [IMO].
We have a mountain to climb alright, but tvs are as inevitable as global warming [which the've only just, barely accepted].
Sophia
I think the idea of a 'critical mass' is useful.. Until GLB folk discovered just how many of them there were, they stayed closeted and fought amongst themselves?
The only way we can make this change is by being willing to stand out and let others know we are here - on the internet and in real life..
Slowly, we are getting there. Attitudes have changed, IME. But, if you just hide in your closet, what right have you to complain that someone else isn't changing things for you? :strugglin
Word Sister! :hugs:Quote:
Originally Posted by JoAnnDallas
We have a longways come, but still have a long ways to go.
Unfortunataly, it may also have a lot to do with region. Boston or San Francisco are very different from the Mid-west, or the South. And that's just the united states.
I think if we are going to be accepted, as gays and lesbians are now becoming, than we need to do nothing more than to be out there, and in the open, no matter where we live.
Shine on you crazy diamonds.:love:
i live in a small town of 8000 or so.
i am well known here-buisness owner(restaurant) chamber of commerce etc.
a few yea rs ago i decided to come out to the public.i went to restaurants artgaleries bars clubs public and private parties.
always tastefully dressed i got to talk to many people about cding and gaining understanding and respect.
Closeted CDs are not jumping out to say here I am - take it or leave it. For the most part, they are stay ing in the closet. Progress is being made with the younger gereation. In some ways it is just like another way to be. It is not seen as a big deal. Not that everyone likes it and accepts it, just that it exists, so what. Older generations are so set in there ways it would be difficult to convert enough of them to a new level of acceptance. It is best to leave things as they are. I believe natural progression take its course. In due time we will still be seen as different but maybe not so wierd as some think now.
Gen
That's pretty easy to believe. I haven't really experienced any prejudice, even from internet trolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by harmony
The worst people seem to be the women who feel their lifestyle is threatened. Most guys don't care. They giggle amongst themselves, but hell they do that for just about anything. It's normal behavior. I feel as if most transgenders see themselves as something special and think the world somehow treats them different. I don't see evidence of that. No amount of marching is going to make people like you if they aren't already open-minded. :straightface:
At this point, what progress is to be made exactly? You want crossdressing astronauts? Transsexual president?
Hello my youngest son is 21 years old and he told me at the new year that he is GAY, he came out to me i was the last one to no in the family i love my son and i always will to the day that die this is not about him, this is about cumming out all the crossdressers that are in the closet should come out no one is going to kill you are they, they are not going hack of your arms ore legs, OK you may loose some friends but they are not you real friends are they your real friend would not walk away from you, i am going to come out to my family because i don't see what is so wrong with wearing women's clothing, i think all crossdressers in all parts of the world should get together we should make a stand and tell the rest of the world that wee are here and wee are here to stay, you can accept us and if you don't we don't care. I would love to see a crossdresser parade once a year in every city in the world just like there are Gay parade in other parts of the world, to all you lades out there what do you think + i would love to see all crossdressers with there partners out in a crossdressing parade . Frances
I thought this was about cross dressers making progress not gays. You all keep saying its a gender not a sexual thing but your not getting to the point.
For the most part ppl do accept us. The media no one cares about what they say its mostly entertainment. Don't worry about labels and live your lives.
It's not really about just crossdressers or gays, that's kinda self-centered. It's about breaking taboo and challenging the status quo.
This is what we do.
This is what gays do.
This is what a lot of other semi-related people-types do.
This is what people have a problem with.
This is what needs to change.
Actually we have made progress. It's no longer against the law. I've been stopped a couple times while dressed, and nothing was said, and I wasn't asked to step out of the car. I can remember a time when it was illegal.
Part of the problem is in our own minds. Gays strut around in public, and don't seem to care who knows they are gay, while many of us, are afraid to step foot out of the house. This board is filled with posts from people who are afraid to step out of the house, for fear of being seen. To be fair, most gays don't have wives to worry about, and their familys probably know about them. But only when we quit worrying about what others think, and just go out, dressed as we want to, will we make any true progress. And for most of us, there will always be that fear of being perceived as gay.
We will never make progress until we sort out ourselves first, until we clear away all the myths and misconceptions which we carry inside our heads. It is our lack of belief in ourselves that holds back progress. Nobody will take us seriously if we lack the self-confidence to stand our ground and demand our rights.
So when the time comes when a new generation of CDs grow up without shame and guilt, without confusion about their gender and sexuality, and without believing that they are in any way different from anyone else then, and only then, will CDs break out of our self-imposed exile.
Absolutely, gender/ sexuality are irrelevant, we have shared experiences and many of the same attitudes are the ones we need to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibuki_Warpetal
I don't know. Maybe people are just fed up with "victims". Everybody wants to be thought of as a victim. Personally, I have nothing against gays/lesbians, they should be congratulated for the progress that has been made, and is being made.