Would you still want to be a woman?

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Originally Posted by TGMarla

Think about it. Being a woman was never EVER so good as it is in Western Civilization today. Go back even a few decades, and the benefit drops off sharply. And even today, if you don't live in a developed nation in Europe or North America (and a few selected others), being a chick ain't such a great thing. So.....do you still want to be a woman? Any woman? Or do you just like all the trappings?

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You've certainly raised some very interesting points, Marla, but I disagree with nearly all of them.

First of all, when you look at other parts of the world or other times, you are conveniently overlooking the negative conditions that everyone experienced/experiences in those situations.

For example, it wasn't until 1915 that the practice of having "unfree labor" on ships was banned, even in the United States. Young men were often "Shanghaied" onto ships of various nations, forced into involuntary servitude under truly horrible conditions.

The same was true of the "recruitment" techniques of the military entities of many nations. One morning you were a 12-year old boy sleeping peacefully in your parent's home, and moments later you were dragged away, never to see your family or your village again. In the case of Tzarist Russia, you could be conscripted for up to 50 years of service.

It still goes on today. Armed Palestinians Siezing Children as "Human Shields" (click here)

Endless stories from endless places around the world. So which would you trade your male identity for?

So, while there is definitely female suffering and female slavery around the world (particularly in portions of Africa and in countries ruled by Muslim "Sharia Law"), there is obviously also male imprisionment, slavery, and torture.

Somehow we've bought into the "don't women suffer cruely in this world - everything from PMS to putting up with men" syndrome.

What about the amazing, bright side of being a woman? How come that wasn't mentioned in almost any of the messages in this thread? Women are the ones who experience the incredible creation of life. What's being a guy compared to that? Face it, guys, you're second rate.

So, would you rather be a woman in the horrible Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire? Or would you rather be a soldier tortured in a cage in Vietnam, beaten into a bloody mess every day?

Pretty questionable basis for a discussion, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Jonianne

Women have found a way to survive and thrive in whatever setting they were put in. Historical writings are full of the courage and beauty they have posessed through out the ages as well as the pain and suffering. It's the heart of a woman that is attractive to me, far more than the externals.

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:iagree: Priceless!

Without even a second of hesitation, I'd do it. To me it's not the clothes or the society but the feeling inside my own body. The body might be physically male, but I don't feel like I really belong to this body.

I do like the feminine cloths as well; however they are not he main point of my interest at all. No matter where in the world I would be willing to live off as a women, if I would have given the possibility to be born as a women. This feeling is something I cannot escape no matter how hard I try, it is a big part of me; the true me to be honest.

See, Carole, I have the opposite problem. I think very much like a male, but feel very much female. You know, this is where TS folks understand waaaaay better than the average CD'er. For a lot of us, it's not about wanting to be female because of the 'benefits' of it. Or the clothes. Or the nice things, or the bad things. It's about how you feel you self identify.

Ask any woman if she wishes she could become a man with her same personality. Most likely, not; they've spend a lifetime developing ways to deal with all the things that being female entails, as well as having the sexual orientation of a straight female, and, of course, feeling that she is a female. Becoming a homosexual male probably isn't what she would have in mind, and being a heterosexual male would also be out of the question. Yes it might be interesting for a day, but I don't think you'd get many takers if the option to become a guy were available. Never any chance to be a mom, never any chance to have kids, no, few women would want that life, even with all the so called benefits it might have (oh, did I forget to mention the wonderful benefit of being drafted and being sent off to war? Wonderful male benefit, that, something every guy who was drafted was so happy to have; just ask any of the crippled guys in a VA hospitals how wonderful they feel about that 'male priviledge' of getting to be shot at).

Sure, we all see the grass greener on the other side of the fence. But it's not. Men have problems in our lives, women have problems in theirs; and interestingly, becoming the opposite sex can solve some of the problems we face in our current sex. But we rarely think about the new sets of problems that we will face, and all the inconveniences that accompany that sex as well. When we envy the other's lives, we usually only think of the good side, not the bad.

Me, since mid childhood, I've always kind of felt like I'm a girl. A friggin' 13 year old girl. I've felt that way since, well, about age 13. That part of me never had a chance to develop into anything, because none of the experiences were there to go with it. So, it's 'frozen in time'.

But everything else about me is boy. But, because of the conflicts growing up, that side of my personality never developed right either. Sure, I've learned to 'act' like an adult male; but that's all it is, an act. I suppose that yes, if I could go back and start at that age, I would very probably take the option of being female for the rest of my life, without knowing anything more than what I knew then, as long as I could be at least a somewhat average looking female; at least the body would match what I felt that I was, even if lots of other things about my mind weren't quite 'female'. But I've already experienced life being quite an unattractive male; I have no desire to go back and experience being an unattractive female as well.

I suppose it is so easy to say......but for me...better a woman in 1670 than a man now.

One just knows what one should be.

I still do not understand myself fully but I am a guy and would not change that. This guy though has a unrelenting desire to experience feminine traits that has been with me all my life. I believe that dressing the part of a women allows this side to be fulfilled. This is about as much as I know. I do not want to become a woman and give up my manhood but I do feel it is alright to act, dress and live feminine to what ever extent I need too.

Yes i would , the clothes just help me try and express what is burning inside of me so i would swop the clothes for the real thing and live in drab for the rest of my life just to be me .

Interesting thread and so far no one has even raised the question of what colour panties they're wearing! :heehee:

One of my favourite sayings is "Don't confuse the trappings with the philosophy" and it seems to fit here with a bit of adjustment.

There's nothing wrong with roleplaying as a woman, of playing dress-up-let's-pretend. Nothing wrong with it at all and that's fine for those who get something from that :)

That's not me though. I wear the same everyday stuff that a million other girls wear every day. Put me in "male" clothes and oddly enough I walk the same, my body language is the same, I remain predominantly female with a few male aspects, attributes and characteristics.

I think a lot of the people I speak to here and elsewhere are not in this position. What they are actually doing is creating in themselves this idealised version of their fantasy women. Like I say, there's no problem with that and good luck to them :) But I do think that many people think they must be TS simply because they like the trappings. It's also true that the trappings that many consider "female" are actually not "everyday female" and they really are just acting out fantasies rather than expressing what's genuinely inside them.

I hope that doesn't come across as if I'm having a go at such people because I'm not intending to.

As for the original question, absolutely yes. For me it's not about enjoying the better trappings of women in western civilisation or of occasionally getting together with others to play "girl's night". It's about trying to allow what's inside to be expressed in the real world every day so that I can be me 100% :battingeyelashes:

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Originally Posted by TGMarla

What if there were not pretty dresses, or lacy slips? No pantyhose and high heels? No lovely hair and fingernails? What if you had to live in Afghanistan? Or some little dirt-poor tribe in Africa or New Guinea? What if you had to live in 1670 in a Puritan colony where your daily life was full of labor and hard work, where you had no say in what happened in your life? What if it meant second-class citizenship with a husband that lorded over you?

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Well if you knew nothing of modern trappings you wouldn't want them, now would you? It would not change how someone felt. No one longed for color TV's in 1670 either.

I think that most any GG's, GM's, Us here, ect. of today living in modern western cultures would not want to live in any of the places/times you described either knowing what they know now.
Am I wrong?

It's not all "peaches and cream" being a woman Marla but being one can hold it's own reward for the right person. I'm thinking a life more like in "The Sarah Conner Chronicles" myself but that would work out okay for me since I'm "rough and tumble" to begin with. Life is basically what we make it regardless of genetics anyway and men and women have the ability to be both. While we may admire women and the idea of being one, it takes a very special person to do just that and that is something that actually has to be experienced to really be appreciated.:)

If my society will allow it i will just look like an Egyptian king with some slight variation; plenty of eye make-up, long hair, waist band, arm bracelets, henna on toe nails and finger nails, dyed hair........and no hair on my body.
After mensioning the looks i prefer there is an additional feature i will have which is to be swooshing my legs as i walk (having the girly walk of course) then to have a slim waist.....i think that will make me a female inpersonator/CD/transvestite or what ever.

In a nut shell am not interested to be a woman for the fashion only no! I see myself as pretty not handsome, not strong but resilient, not modest in dressing but elegant and flamboyant. Am not good looking but beautiful thats how i see myself.

Am always close to tears but hardly cry cos men dont cry.

I dont mind having saggy breasts or the menstral cycle, as i hang with a GG i realise that women dont see men as being superior but rather see men as more spontaneous and prone to exposing themselves to dangers....................... i think i become smarter in my survival instincts thats why i choose to be a woman to let the men face the dangers cos they want to.

Let men chase women and get the bashing, let them fight over the earth resources and give to us "weak men/sissies/CDs/trannies" and women.

i think its their choice thats what women say to men when they see men toil to satisfy a woman.

Ok, my parallel life as woman.........

So I was born in '64 into a working class British family, went to school in the '70s, so no high expections for me as a girl, would of helped my mother around the house.

'81 about to leave school Career options; office work, shop work, nursing, light factory work or housewife this is the late '70s early '80s even university would have been limited option.

So I train as a nurse, having given up my dreams of being an actress or dancer. Then at some point I would been expected to marry have kids, maybe work part-time.........

So its 2009, kids have grown ups, one is working, one is just about to go to university, I've kicked that lazy, macho, sob of an ex-husband out, just dead weight.

So I'm 44, still a nurse and I'm starting to enjoy my life again :)

Realistic view?

Rach :)

I used to think it would be nice to be a woman. my dear wife at age 44 has had serious trouble with periods, two benign breast tumors removed, and now is facing rectual and vaginal prolapse surguries probadly based on damage with giving birth to our two beautiful children, exploitation and abuse since a very young age. I am glad I am a man that stands by her through all of this with great love and admiration for her great strenght. I do not know if I could be as strong facing such odds. Plus she is so supportive of me and who I am. She allows me to be me, I love her dearly. A beautiful person.

Btw I dont think I would have made it to 1670, as Male I'd probably been killed during the English Civil War, fighting for Parliment against a Tyrant King!

As a English woman in 1670, upper class woman please, life as a working class woman in 1670 England would a been very hard................

I am willing to accept it all, both the positive and the negative. My CD life is not all lace and makeup but really trying to be a much a woman in the way I work, my home life and in many ofthe things I do. My role models are the working class women of the fifties who really had second class citizenship of sorts but found ways to support eachother in ways that men really didn't support eachother. I decided at age 4 that it would be better to be a girl and really haven't changed much.

I agree with Lisa Golightlty --

I often envy CD's... I really do.

It has never been about dressing for me. It is about being me. Until recently I haven't dressed in over 10 years and yet I always felt that I was TS. I would still want to be a woman.

But the historical perspective that Marla brings up is very interesting and really makes you think---but it only makes you realize how far woman have come and how much further they need to go in certain societies.

the perseption is that i'm a guy trying to be a woman. as long as i was born in the right body i don't care where.

Provocative stuff this. Here's the deal the way I see it. We are who we are so imagining being in some other time & place in a gender we've never fully experienced has no rational basis for comparison. CDer's are very brave people indeed to actively want to be seen as women since, despite any & all advances in gender justice, woman are still struggling to find true equality in western society. Don't even talk about the "rest" of the world as far as women are concerned. Barring an advance in the human genome, men will always rule the roost and only allow unimportant advances for women. Cder's, as men, know how women struggle for the things we take for granted, yet we still yearn for that status. Given this, we are indeed brave but filled also with some sort of divine madness, a pursuit of an ideal over which we have no control. We are victims in very much the same sense as women, with very few of the perks. No wonder we hide. TS women are luckier in a sense since they at least have their convictions while CDer's mostly believe in mirages. So, no, I wouldn't want to be a woman at any time. Now is tough enough.

For me it is all about the lace and the hosiery, the cute little skirts and the makeup. I have no desire to be a women in any era. So I will just go to the other side of the room. Man this side is really lonely.:sad:

There were times when being a real female was a foremost thought. I could even do the different era thing as long as I could choose the era (I would not want to live in a cave). At those times I even justified the "bad" things about being a woman like hormones and being subjugated. Now not so much. I just want to be comfortable. Ok so that is a canned female response ;)

This sounds more like a TG (TS) question than a CD question to me. As a CDer I can't say that I would really want to be a woman. Had I been born a woman my life would be so very different and I wouldn't trade what I have now for that. For me crossdressing is a way to express a side of my personality that society says isn't ok for me to even feel let alone show. It calms and relaxes me and makes me feel more like a whole person. Women have had their sexual revolution, now it's time for men to have theirs. VIVA LA REVOLUTION!! :2c:

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Originally Posted by TGMarla

So.....do you still want to be a woman? Any woman? Or do you just like all the trappings?

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It's not that I want to be a woman. I have femme aspects to me. The trappings of femininity are the expression of those aspects, not the aspects themselves.

I couldn't care less about the trappings. I very rarely get all dressed up, and even then I don't really wear skirts or dresses all that much. Female clothes to me are just a tool to present to the world the way I feel inside. If clothes didn't exist and everyone in the world just went around nude, I would still want SRS. So for me, yes, to be a natural GG would be a wish come true, in any era (I would prefer modern day though, who wouldn't?)

This was a good question to ask because there are many here that say it, but have they really, really thought it out so deeply as to what their saying...

Are they really looking at the whole picture, or just selectively looking at only the good aspects leaving out the not so good parts... Are they really ready to live having to deal with a period..?? or carry a child for 9 months and then push it out, leaving stretch marks after, go through PMS, or have a guy's drippings come out for a day or more..or take care of their man in every way, cook him all his meals, clean his dirty underwear & socks, change the babies diapers and so on, and so on...is that what they really want???

I would think that if someone who was strictly a CD'er and you took away the frilly clothes, then they may not have the same desire to CD anymore..because there would be no point to it really, it would take to much of the thrill away..

But as a MTF Transsexual such as myself & many others that have responded here with GID, it shouldn't matter what we wear, it doesn't in my case anyway...I was born with a woman's brain so to speak, so it doesn't matter what clothes I'm wearing is, but dont get me wrong, I do love woman's clothes & all the trappings because it does help sort out the two different genders in a way on the outside, but what really matters to me more than anything is to feel compete with the correct body, as a whole person, just as any normal women is born with the body & mind matching without any conflict within themselves..
I would of loved to be able to carry in my body & give birth to children, but sadly no matter what, I never will..So that is one Huge void in my life that I can never fill, and will have to live with that for the rest of my life until I die..

I dont know how I would feel if I was born with a mans brain, but to be honest, I truly wish I was, since I was born with a mans body, I would think I would be happier that way, but I dont really know that for a fact...because it didn't happen that way..

So what I'm trying to say is, I wouldn't wish my GID issues on any human being..it's no picnic..that's for sure..
Just as I'm sure there are many CD'ers that wish they had no desires to dress as the opposite sex but what goes on in there heads when they do, I'll never really know, but I can totally understand why some men want to be perceived as women, because we all know women are far more superior than men in every way...except for doing the heavy & dirty work, we'll leave that for the guys since we know you guy's do that so well....:D

On the flip side, I wouldn't want to be a man in Afghanistan either.

I've never wanted to be a woman or emulate one,I just like their clothes and shoes,thats why I wear them.