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Lets be honest, very few of us are passable. If you are out in public and dressed and you walk by someone and the say nothing don't automaticaly think you passed, that person was just to kind to stare or say something off color. I actually would rather have some one say," Hey that was a guy in Womans Cloths" " He really looks Good".....
In a big store or shopping mall, not a lot of people are people watching, and even less, people scrutinizing. Of course there are smart alecs everywhere. But most people just want to get on with their own life.
Watching people leave the apartment building in the morning is a case in point. They are focussed on getting out of there and to work. One Halloween morning I sat in the lobby all dressed in a skirt, etc., and with slightly goofy Halloween horns on my head. Most people did not even notice I was there. I think only one person may have noticed the horns, but I am not even sure about her. One day, one person was even so visually unconscious, that he sort of bounced off the far wall of the hall, on the way to work down the hall to the side door. Didn't even see the wall. It is like watching rats go through a maze they have memorized.
Speaking of rats, three times, I walked down the hallway of my apartment with a pet rat on my shoulder, and even though she was close enough to one passing woman that she could have kissed her, the woman did not notice until the third or fourth day I tried it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
While the basic idea of your post I agree with, I think that it's unrealistic to gauge "passing" at a TG convention. You already know that 98% of the women there are TG. That plus your mindset, being one of us, makes you more tuned to find those little things that stand out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Salene
That being said, sure, if you aren't comfortable with being read, then stay home! I think myself and some of my friends pass often, but not nearly even 90% of the time. Do we look good though? Hell yeah!! While I love being treated like a women, I don't require that you beleive I was born a women. If I leave a little doubt as to just who I am, I'll be happy with that.
I'm not as concerned about "passing" as a CD as I am about "failing" as a person RS.:)
I used to say I had a love/hate relationship with the concept of "passing," but now I go so far as to say I have a hate/hate relationship with it. I hate, hate, the way our community pushes so hard for passing, I think it does nothing but make people insecure about how they look and also pushes the notion that crossdressers are trying to trick people.
If you're living full time and undergo reconstructive surgery or at least use enough hormones to feminize your looks, that's one thing. But for those of us who are CD's rather than TS's, stop being so bloody afraid to have people know you're a crossdresser! Instead, just do your best to be the best looking, most confident crossdresser you can be.
I'm not saying everyone needs to take it to the extreme I do and present entirely as a man in a skirt. Heck, even I still do the wig and makeup game sometimes too for fun. I'm saying, instead of stressing yourself out by making passing convincingly the goal, find out the look that actually is best for your body type, do the makeup that actually accentuates your natural features rather than trying to hide them by disguising yourself.
The more of us that go out and confidently show ourselves to be crossdressers, the more publicly accepted we'll be because people will see is in a much more positive light.
The is a great thread, and a breath of fresh air.
My hope while dress is too blend, and when read have people, and especialy women, think "wow "he" looks great!, what good taste,
Paula
I 100 % disagree with your numbers.I think far more "pass" than what you are saying. I know I dont but I enjoy getting as close as I can.
I had an interesting experience the other day. Tobie my spouse and I have had a youn TG friend coming to stay with us for the odd weekend for the last few months. On one such visit, I met her up at the carpark to walk her to our place .
Now to be fair, she's TG not CD but she's also pre-hormone TG which puts her squarely at the same level as a CD.She's also a young TG in her early 20's so doesnt have some of the telltale signs like heavy facial hair, but she definitely does have some and if you look closely you'll see it.
As she was getting out of her car, there were a couple other vehicles parking at the same time. Mostly filled with men. They all paused to check her out as she gathered her things and got out of the car.
It was at that point I realized they werent assessing whether she was male or female. They were checking out her ASS in those jeans she had on. VEry clearly they had no idea, and were looking at her as they would any woman on the street, with desire. Cant say I blame them she's rather hot:) I'd love to be able to say she's the only TG or CD I know that DOES pass, but she just isnt. I know at least 6 like that of 20-30 I know well enough to have studied them personally and spoken with them who unless you were told, you would never know. Even with my limited experience, sherri the numbers are much greater than you're suggesting and I'm not in a position to know all that many.
Now as you say, the voice DOES tell a tale. That said this is one area as CD's , we just let ourselves down.Because female voice an mannerisms are attainable, and there's many how to's on the net, all of which say practice makes perfect.We could pass on voice, but for 99% of us, we choose not to. ( Amanda reminds herself to do some voice training this week!)
Oh...and I'm with the previous poster. You dont need the mask , what you're lacking isnt female face but confidence.
Amanda
The only place I worry about "passing" is at home with my boyfriend. As long as considers me "his girlfriend" I'm satisfied.
Remember, it's not doc that needs the mask, it's Sherry. Sherry IS the mask. Without the mask, there would be no Sherry.
Steph
From what I've seen at support groups, the ubiquitous internet pictures and out-and-about, Sherry's 1 out of a 1000 is too high. Even less pass the perceived 100% woman in all social situations test.
But this whole dialog requires a definition for passing and mine is quite strict. The fact that many can blend in or are ignored in a crowd is great, but it's not passing in my book.
Of course if your definition is less demanding then you will consider more as passing.
I don't pass, period. But, I have fun when I'm out and don't worry about second looks. I've found most people quite accommodating. I view it more as "sharing a secret," than as "I'm fooling you."
As Lady Bunny (I think it was LB) said on her blog one time, "it's the rare woman with a perfect face and lips who really looks good in bright red lipstick: most likely you're not her."
.
God I hate that P word.
I never worry about passing and don't care one lick about what people think. When asked about it I just say my name is Daphne. I am a who I am plain and simple. But I agree with Op most do not pass and that's ok. It is all about being you, If you are confident in your own skin you do just fine.
Things never to ask a woman (which could be a long list):Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope
1. Are you pregnant?
2. Are you a transsexual?
3. How old are you?
Similarly...
Things never to as a man (which could also be a long list):
1. Are you pregnant?
2. Are you a transsexual?
3. How old are you?
As Hope said, what if the answer is "no"? Oops. (In some cases, if the answer is "yes", then oops.)
Basically, these questions are nobody's business, so don't ask. (Of course, if the person in question is a good friend, then all bets are off, but that goes without saying.)
As a comedian said, you only ask if a woman is pregnant, when you see the baby's head coming out.
Use this same sort of rule in other areas of your life and avoid much embarrassment.
I'm still amazed no one has posted... "The Truth... You can handle the Truth!". Lol. I rarely pass as a human... Been trying to pass as a hockey player for years.. That's not going well either..
I guess I wasn't clear, Amanda! I think over 90% of the girls at the conference passed on occasion. Like, walking by folks in a mall. Sitting a few tables away in a restaurant, or while out in the evening. Maybe even I could pass, from behind! :heehee: But, VERY few, if any, could pass 100% of the time!:straightface:Quote:
Originally Posted by kinkedamanda
Remember, I was watching them walk, move, hearing them talk, etc., at very close range! I've been studying women for 60 years. I only saw 2 at the conference, that mite have "fooled" me up close!:eek:
Correct, Steph. And without Sherry, I wouldn't even BE HERE!:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephenie S
where would you be? Everyone has to be somewhere. Unless you are a real "Nowhere man"Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
-- if I keep the skirt length within reason, my legs are pretty feminine. I just have to know when to quit!Quote:
Originally Posted by NathalieX66
Lots of interesting replies. I have been crossdressing for many years. Never found "passing" all that important but being comfortable with myself #1. I have had 3 wives all of whom I told before we married and 2 of whom supported me until they wanted out of the marriage then used my crossdressing in various ways to their advantage. My current wife is supportive to the degree that I can dress anytime but she refuses to let me go out.
Here is the irony. I recently retired and took a part time job as a female. I have not told my wife for obvious reasons but spending 3 days a week as "one of the girls" is just too good to pass up. Just last week the company I worked for abrubtly closed and I applied for another female job, got it and start work next week in a very public office. I wear dresses and heels and sweaters, skirts, suits to work along with makeup, jewelery, and am accepted by all my co-workers yet I don't really "pass". After all these years I am having a wonderful time not just at work but other public places too. I would love to tell my wife how happy I am but that would be the end of a great marriage so I am somewhat on the horns of a dilemma I will have to work out.
Be that as it may, "passing is a by product of being at peace with who you are not how you look. If you don't want to be "read" stay home. If you want to explore your feminity to the fullest get comfortable put on your heels and venture out. My only regret, I waited too long...LOL :love:
Passable ??? Very, very few of us are completely "passable". But I like to
feel and believe that it what is on the inside that counts the most. I doubt
that I would ever be "passable" on the outside, but on the inside I am all
woman. That is all that matters to me.
JoAnne Wheeler
Ok, so here I am the one who it seems is the odd one out, I have been doing this since my early teens and going out even then.
Passing has always been very important to me, I am not too sure if I can get this across in writing, but for me when I dress I do become Sophie the woman, and not a man who likes to dress up in women's clothing and go out.
Sophie has taken on a life of her own and enjoys herself.
I do put an immense amount of work into being Sophie and in truth I do not think that I am very passable, but over the last 4 years or so I have had some, what I would describe as "fantastic times out passing".
I have had tremendous support from people here, and I am very thankful for that. In my early days I just did not pass, and I could not understand why and it was soul destroying.
But over these later years, I have got better at it.
Finding the right hairstyle and colour has been a really big thing, wearing clothes that really suit me has also been very important, getting the walk has been very difficult, but I am better at it, my mannerisms I think are better, I do think we can over do the "acting like a woman" bit and stick out like a sore thumb, and now the voice is much better, I practice and even telephone myself from work, and when I get home and hear the message, it is a bit of a surprise to hear her, but a pleasant surprise.
I do put myself out there, I try to meet the postman every now and then, and say hello, my neighbours have seen Sophie, and as far as I am aware that is who they have seen.
I have been shopping at the supermarket often and had small chats with the assistants, again as far as I am aware they were talking and serving Sophie.
I have been to the garage twice and had punctures repaired as Sophie, and again as far as I am aware passed.
This Saturday I am planning to go to the MEN Arena in Manchester and that is a massive thing, I have posted pictures elsewhere here showing the outfit I have put together, (not happy with the hair though).
If I thought I was not going to pass then I would not be going.
(This Saturdays outfit)
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...d.php?t=120364
I am not though TS, I am CD who absolutely loves being Sophie and being a woman for as long as it lasts.
Even with all these outings, it takes a great deal of courage to step out the door, but it is Sophie stepping out.
Now when you look at my photos and videos I am sure you will say to yourself "How can he pass as much as he says it can"?
Honestly I have no idea. Perhaps I am seriously kidding myself.
I do get read, but I am never certain if I was or not.
I did meet with a GG earlier this year as a one off and she was able to give me her opinion and was very honest because she knows the importance of Sophie and was able to say that if she saw me in the street she would have no idea. That comment was very helpful to me and I take that out with me.
(video)
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...d.php?t=119507
I was watching an episode of the Closer just recently and the detectives knocked at the door and it was answered by a very attractive woman, but I suspected even from the very first moment that this was in fact a man, but I was not sure until a little later in the story.
If I was not a CD then I would not have thought twice about her and would have accepted that it was a woman, but I am always somehow always on the lookout.
None of this post is intended to be confrontational and is written with good intentions and from the heart and thought it was worth adding and to encourage those who say they don't pass.
With love Sophie.
The idea of being passable is important to us CDers because when we dress, we are creating in our own way a feminine image.
Closet CDers who only show their work to the mirror may wonder if they can be objective enough in their judgement. Those of us who go out on the street are putting the illusion to the ultimate test - if we pass, we are the same as a woman. Unfortunately, we don't necessarily know whether we are passing or not, which is I think the foundation for this whole debate.
If you get finger pointing and derisive voices calling you a tranny, you know where you are, but I honestly believe that very often we get read and people say nothing, do nothing. Either they are too polite or they just couldn't give a XXXX about a guy in a dress.
So the debate goes on...
When someone asks the passing question I generally take them to mean.. Can I go out in public and not be read? There are many schools of thought in regards to passing. Looks, attitude, the way in which you carry yourself, self confidence. Passing to some means blending in without being noticed,just another face in the crowd. If this works for you...EXCELLENT!
Now, back to the passing question. Does the OP want to "blend" or truly pass public scrutiny up close and personal? As I mentioned earlier, I tend to take the question as being the latter. I often get myself in hot water because while I do agree that attitude and self confidence are wonderful and helpful I have the opinion that all of the attitude and self confidence in the world are not going to be enough for Joe the linebacker to pass as a woman. When I add... face it, there are a lot of people that just aren't going to be able to pull it off.. the poo poo really hits the fan.... Easy for you to say.. you pass!
I am accused of being an aloof,elitist,snob, and not being the supporting person that I should be. The truth of the matter is that I want people to be happy, and i want them to be comfortable with themselves. What I don't want to do is give someone who believes that passing to be important (to them) any kind of false hope. I don't wish to see anyone venture out and have what might end up as a traumatic experience because I was was being more PC than honest. I see my approach to passing as more common sense that elitism, but I suppose it's open to interpretation. If I had my way everyone would be able to pass as they saw fit, but the truth of the matter is that in here we can "be all" but in the real real world someone is going to end up holding the S***y end of the stick. :2c:
Kelly
Thanks, Doc. I am sure you spell out a lot of truth.
I think we're all lucky to live in the 'modern times' that we do. At least in the Western world, even small town folks realize that "we" walk among the populace.
For myself to pass would be a pipe dream. Do I expect acceptance? Absolutely.
Chance encounters with dim witted knotheads are a risk but less and less every day. Within significant urban areas, during daylight hours, my expectation would be to go about my activities with no problem at all.
Thanks Sherry so much for your post. It got right to the point that I was trying to make but saying the wrong and long ways. Most of us in this forum are cds, we will never go further in transitioning or the use of hormones, surgery etc. Our ability to pass as females is reasonably limited such. We are also limited in some ways by our body structure, weight, hight, etc. I do believe we need to encourage each other and be suportive with each other but there is also a reality there to consider. I do believe that the questioning about passing may mean to some yes we think you are attractive, cute, etc. Or that you are applauded for the time u take on your appearance. But we also need to be sure that people understand that. And as was said you cant go out there blind in the world and expect everyone to see you as a woman. The reality may be most of us will be ignored, and hopefully treated well by the majority of peopl while we are out. The reality may also be that we are laughed at at times behind our backs or even to our faces, pointed out etc. I think that all of us need to be aware of it and let our newbies out there in on it too. I am so appreciate for the folks who have encouraged me to get out and about, and my goal will be to encourage others. Its a Cruel Crazy, Beautiful World out there in the words of Johnny Clegg and it sure is fun to explore!
Ok, Nathalie, I'm going to forget about the dieting, the dancing lessons, hair, clothes and makeup, the walk and the voice; I'm gonna concentrate on hip exercises :)Quote:
Originally Posted by NathalieX66