Why can't I ???

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Originally Posted by paulaluvssz8

And so the arguememt was on. Ending with hurt feelings and her telling me that she didn't want me buying "that stuff" anymore.

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Your wife believes the CDing is an option, and if you love her enough, you will stop. You need to let her know that it is as much a part of you as the color of your eyes. Tell her what you wrote in your last paragraph. Tell her that you do not want to lose your marriage over this, but you cannot change who you are. You were born with this.

Invite her to come to the forum and join FAB. Read the sticky, "How to Tell Your Partner" at the top of this section.

[QUOTE=paulaluvssz8;1985591] And some of the things she does, I hate to the core. But she doesn't stop or change. SO!/QUOTE]

grrrr this is something that came up when I left my wife... she was allowed infinite judgement on anything I did but I was allowed no criticism of her.
In my limited life, this is too often the case. Women have so much power in typical relationships and men have to settle for whatever bones they are offered.

sorry to vent but this struck a nerve :2c:

I do not want to make my post long and boring. All I can do is point out what happened to me with my wife and my marriage.
My ex found my cd'ing unacceptable
I tried to drink the girl away for years. That was more acceptable than cd'ing. seems like anyway.
When I gave up drinking the girl inside had to come out to some extent. This was really unacceptable. What will her friends think.
I raised my kids to adulthood. So now it was time for me. At least some girl time. I am now sober and Paula needs some freedom. Also unacceptable. Ex still wanted the man she married. I was a cd back then too.
I started to push the hole cd thing. Maybe too much. But she was pushing too. She was making my life so miserable.
With the misery and pain I made decisions that was wrong. But in my defense. I had to have some happiness too.
We ended up divorced after 31 years. As you can see from what I have wrote. Everything about being a cd was unacceptable. Still is. Her attitude is cd'ing is fine just not her husband.
Being married is a partnership. I tried to make my marriage work and she will say the same. It just got to the point that we were not partners any more. I still blame her for her unacceptance of my cd'ing and unwillingness to stop her drinking as reasons for our divorce. Of course that is just my point of view too.
So that's what happened to me. I wish you the very best in trying to work all of this out. I think everyone here has made very good points as to what is right or wrong. But really there is no real right or wrong answers to life now is there. We all have to make choices and sometimes the choices we make hurt like hell. Such is life.

Just two quick points. One is I keep reading about how shellfish CD's are, this in reply to someone talking about how demanding their SO is. We hear about so many wives demanding, it's my way or the highway, why has no one thought that maybe it's wives that come off as the selfish one. As Sandra has pointed out, for a lot of us, it is medically beyond are control. Many of the CD's on this site have gone to great lengths to bury the need, or to hide it from sight, just to please someone else, how is that selfish?
Point two, and this will sound harsh. Some times you just have to cut your losses, and move on. But life is to short to spend 20 or 30 or more years miserable, trying to keep someone else happy.
Tina

My wife frequently insists that crossdressing is a choice. I contend that I was born this way. She says, "You can control it, if you want to. You keep looking at men in drag online--that is gay."

I say, "I didn't know I was a cd before we were married." She says , "Yes, you did. you didn't tell me. I didn't sign up for this." Sigh.
We are working it out as best we can.

The bottom line, you have a commitment to your kids.

My avatar pic is the last time I dressed in 1999 after a lifetime. I personally decided to choose my wife over my femme self. Not ten conscious minutes have gone by since that decision that I don't think about and want to dress again. But I made my choice. My choice is mine alone, but don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't stop. While one doesn't choose to be a crossdresser, one certainly makes a choice to crossdress. It isn't easy or fun to abstain, and you will get a lot of more trans than thou attitude from others. But yes, we all have the power to abstain.

I dont have a wife or kids but if I did They will always com first no matter what.

Sorry to hear about this. It is sad when a SO instead of working things out with her partner and tackling her own prejudices instead opts for the head in the sand approach and, in your case, added emotional blackmail of separation and the kids.

As you pointed out when she thought it was just a sexual fetish then she played along but when the concept of crossdressing was revealed her prejudices were triggered. The only way to get around this is to demonstrate that her feelings on the matter are ill-informed and baseless. The trick is how to get her started on the educational route where she can lay her fears to rest and work out a compromise.

One thing to counter her ultimatum with is to point out that her taking off with the kids is going to create far more harm to their emotional development than her dealing with your crossdressing. If there is any selfishness on display here, it is the one who is needlessly threatening to break-up the relationship and harm the kids in the process.

You need to develop the belief in yourself that you are not doing anything wrong and you should stand up for what you are. Her feelings on CDing are ensuring that she is dealing with this the wrong way. She needs assistance from others to change her understanding.

Hello all. I do appreciate all comments. I know that there is a lot of experience in this matter. I'm going to have to make a decesion about me, and my cding. I will assure you all that first and foremost I will keep my family in mind. I will only do what's best for us. And if I have to dress in the closet while she is gone. Well that's what I'll do. Just to keep peace and togetherness. I'm aware the dressing is a choice for me. I do it for the pleasure, and I know that must really bother others. But that's me... My only regrets are that I didn't find this site before I told her about my desire to dress. Could have used the advice. Oh well, I hope that you all have a very Happy New Year! And I'll be around, either in or out of the closet.

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Originally Posted by paulaluvssz8

You know I'd love to be back to getting a little room of acceptance. But I just can't figure out how to bring it up. I really want to just love her, and be "the MAN" she married. But I CD! And like it. I don't want to become a woman. I don't want to be with anybody else. I just want her to love all of me. Not just what she wants of me. I have been with her for 20 years, and she isn't perfect, but I live with those things. And some of the things she does, I hate to the core. But she doesn't stop or change. SO!

Why Can't I???

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Why can't you? Why didn't you tell her b-e-f-o-r-e you married her? Where was this "Why can't I" attitude back then?

Your wife, assuming she's straight, needs a masculine man just as much as you need to dress. It's amazing to me how much the wives of CDs will give up to keep their families together and how very little the CDs themselves will do for same.

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Originally Posted by Acadeca

Your wife, assuming she's straight, needs a masculine man just as much as you need to dress.

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Possibly true in the case of the original poster, but not true for all of us here.

In my opinion, your statement is perpetuating myths that confuse biological sex, sexual orientation, and gender -- perpetuating the 50's "Men should be men, and women should be women!" myth. I bet you can't even define your terms precisely, as to what it means exactly to be "straight" or "masculine". For example, I have encountered many women who say they are "straight" and whom enjoy looking at scantily-clad good-looking women: have all those women been "lying" about being straight, or have they all been "latent bisexuals"? Because if they have all been "latent bisexuals" in your definitions, then the average is noticeably different than the "pure hetrosexual" that you imply in your statement.

If you were speaking generally about "the need to dress" rather than specifically about the need as experienced by the original poster, then you were wrong and should go back and read my posting in this thread about the medical effects I experienced.

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Originally Posted by Acadeca

It's amazing to me how much the wives of CDs will give up to keep their families together and how very little the CDs themselves will do for same.

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It's amazing to me how much people can generalize about the lives of CDs they have never even met and don't know about.

For example, I have been allowing for the last 18 months something that two different therapists have said they personally wouldn't allow for more than 3 weeks; it is something that statistically damages 80% of marriages and is directly responsible for divorce in 40% of cases; the best time estimate we have is that it will go on for another 3 years (and the psychological effects will last for many years beyond that.)

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Originally Posted by Denise Rhodes

When you are in a relationship there is one rule of thumb that never changes. The SO is not always right but she is never wrong. That is a fact that we, as men (CDing notwithstanding) have to learn to live with.:)

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This is OK until it contradicts professional advice. At that point, it can be abusive.

I speak from experience. :sad:

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Originally Posted by sandra-leigh

In my opinion, your statement is perpetuating myths that confuse biological sex, sexual orientation, and gender -- perpetuating the 50's "Men should be men, and women should be women!" myth. I bet you can't even define your terms precisely, as to what it means exactly to be "straight" or "masculine". For example, I have encountered many women who say they are "straight" and whom enjoy looking at scantily-clad good-looking women: have all those women been "lying" about being straight, or have they all been "latent bisexuals"? Because if they have all been "latent bisexuals" in your definitions, then the average is noticeably different than the "pure hetrosexual" that you imply in your statement.




It's amazing to me how much people can generalize about the lives of CDs they have never even met and don't know about.

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Be that as it may, people form their own opinons of what defines a "masculine" man. You can rationalize whatever you want, and you may in fact be correct in what you have said, but being correct, doesn't alway "pay the rent" I have my own "definition" of masculine and that's what I look for in an SO. If he doesn't fit my idea of masculine... he's out.

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Originally Posted by Satrana

Sorry to hear about this. It is sad when a SO instead of working things out with her partner and tackling her own prejudices instead opts for the head in the sand approach and, in your case, added emotional blackmail of separation and the kids.

As you pointed out when she thought it was just a sexual fetish then she played along but when the concept of crossdressing was revealed her prejudices were triggered. The only way to get around this is to demonstrate that her feelings on the matter are ill-informed and baseless. The trick is how to get her started on the educational route where she can lay her fears to rest and work out a compromise.

One thing to counter her ultimatum with is to point out that her taking off with the kids is going to create far more harm to their emotional development than her dealing with your crossdressing. If there is any selfishness on display here, it is the one who is needlessly threatening to break-up the relationship and harm the kids in the process.

You need to develop the belief in yourself that you are not doing anything wrong and you should stand up for what you are. Her feelings on CDing are ensuring that she is dealing with this the wrong way. She needs assistance from others to change her understanding.

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I think that it is pretty well accepted that mothers will do whatever they deem necessary to protect their children from harm,whether real or perceived.
i don't think that trying the old "guilt trip" approach ( taking off will do the kids more harm than good) is a good strategy and it may even backfire and really piss her off. Keep in mind that people who tell you to stand up aren't facing the prospect of YOUR marriage going down the tubes. But the good news is that they will probably be here to console you after it happens. " I am so sorry, but at least you have the satisfaction of knowing that you were right"! And keep in mind that some people have their own agendas, and believe that sacrifices must be made along the way in order to get the word out, and advance the "cause". sadly I don't have any advice other than to say that were I in your shoes I would seriously consider getting professional help. Whether or not you can work it out is going to be a crap shoot. I wish you the best of luck.
:hugs:

Kelly

Once the gaunlet has been thrown down, the options are limited. The facts are that this "bi-genderedness" that is a part of us is still a very hot issue in the minds of many people. I'm not saying that this is a good thing, just that it does exist as a problem. When one spouse has their fears pierced, regardless of the issue, this kind of knee-jerk reaction will be the result. If staying married is the goal, then professional help is really the only direct way of approaching the issue. Also, I wouldn't press for joint counseling in the beginning, but let the counselor request you wife to join in as time goes on. He will surely want to interview her.

I am so sorry for your hurt. Without the intervention of a professional, the status quo might be maintained for a long time.

tina

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Originally Posted by Acadeca

Why can't you? Why didn't you tell her b-e-f-o-r-e you married her? Where was this "Why can't I" attitude back then?

Your wife, assuming she's straight, needs a masculine man just as much as you need to dress. It's amazing to me how much the wives of CDs will give up to keep their families together and how very little the CDs themselves will do for same.

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That's a very good observation, and also the way I feel too.

Don't listen to the old goat either, he's just showing off his typically male mind.

But to be fair, there are some CDers that do sacrifice or at least try to curtail their CDing desires & put their SO's & families needs 1st. I have much admiration for them even though I don't really know what goes through the mind of a CDer, but would imagine it's tough for them.

Personally speaking, I could never blame any spouse for not accepting this behavior and live the rest of their lives with it, I know I wouldn't, and they may be able to understand it to some degree like I think I do, but lets face it, if they or I did except this to behavior into the relationship, it is the wives or I that made the sacrifice to save the relationship and live with that pain against our will, while the CDer had done nothing but do what they wanted to without sacrificing anything for anyone.

So, that's why I do NOT view a wife as acting selfish if they cant accept & live with it if it's not their cup of tea, but do view any CDer or transsexual very selfish in EXPECTING their spouse to accept them in their new gender expression role, and when that doesn't happen, blame the the spouse for the relationships demise. I say you reap what you sew.
I do admire all the wives that do except this, and think of them as Saints, for it is something I could never do, and I have the utmost respect for them.

Paula,
Good luck, I'm sure that you will make the the best decision you can and your intension's are honorable as to seeing that your thinking about your wife & family too, not just just yourself in this matter.
Either way, it is a Huge decision that will effect everyone in your life for the rest of their lives, so it's not one to take lightly..

:hugs:

I have some personal experience that I really do want to share with you. Can you email me and let's chat privately?

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Originally Posted by Karen564

Don't listen to the old goat either, he's just showing off his typically male mind.

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Hmmm.

Karen, I have the opinions of 4 different medical professionals that my mind is distinctly atypical, period. The three of them that I have talked to gender issues about indicate that I do not fit the typical "male" pattern (the fourth knew about my gender issues as part of the background to the matters we were dealing with, but they never became the focus.)

These are professionals who have had direct dealings with me, and are privy to details of my life that I have (for various reasons) not mentioned here. The three that I have discussed gender with know of my medical background; one has extensive knowledge of it.

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Originally Posted by sandra-leigh

Hmmm.

Karen, I have the opinions of 4 different medical professionals that my mind is distinctly atypical, period. The three of them that I have talked to gender issues about indicate that I do not fit the typical "male" pattern (the fourth knew about my gender issues as part of the background to the matters we were dealing with, but they never became the focus.)

These are professionals who have had direct dealings with me, and are privy to details of my life that I have (for various reasons) not mentioned here. The three that I have discussed gender with know of my medical background; one has extensive knowledge of it.

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WhatEverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....period

I'm sorry that you have been told differently..

If you did have a female mind way of thinking, then you wouldn't of posted what you said to Acadeca. period.

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would all of the girls here be OK if their wife or SO came home and decided she was going to start going around the house en male including faux facial/body hair and a zucchini down the front of their pants? walking with a male gait? going out in the garage like that to change the oil? strolling downtown?

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Are you kidding me? :d'oh:

You see everyday all over the place. Downtown, WallyWorld. Some of the are heterosexual and just feel more comfortable wearing their BF's or DH's clothes. I've spoken to some that wear their husbands Hanes of BVD's when Aunt Flo is visiting. Quite the fad several years back was for young HS girls to wear men's boxers as outerwear.

GG get to wear virtually anything and everything the entire spectrum of men's and women's clothing ~ in so long as its "occasion" appropriate.

Women get to be heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual or even tri-sexual, (as in trying anything with anybody)

But if your born a male? Your confined to this tiny little constrictions as how your suppose to dress, behave, act, and present yourself to the world.

The conotation is that if your a transgendered male your less than a man ~ that your weak. Total and complete bull hockey pucks.

I know! I've more than "validated" my masculinity throughout the course of my life. Being an all-state defensive linebacker, 20+ year United States Marine, expert with the rifle, pistol and other various weapons. Having gone through jungle, mountain and desert warfare training. Having gone trough wars, combat, etc ad nauseum.

Girls just want to have fun, and being a girl is fun. Cross dressing is fun, dressing up is fun, pretending to be someone or something else is fun. Being a girl or being girly is fun. Shopping is fun ~ a lot of things that women naturally get to do and enjoy but not men ~ is just plain old fashion,

There's no doubt in my military mind that I've a partially feminized brain housing group. I've zero spatial perception to the extent that I cannot even wrap a present, I'm lousy at math, I talk endlessly ~ all things that if one has done any study leans toward the feminine.

But there are women that are great at such things.

My point, there are women that are strictly heterosexual but more masculine than your typical male ~ and ditto for some men.

The big problem for the OP is the word "Alabama" (Where I'm from and currently reside)

Were to be found out that I was a CD'r ~ I would be black listed socially, would probally lose my job, and would have a very hard time finding another one, even if the economy was booming. :dh:

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Originally Posted by Dana

Are you kidding me? :d'oh:

You see everyday all over the place. Downtown, WallyWorld. Some of the are heterosexual and just feel more comfortable wearing their BF's or DH's clothes. I've spoken to some that wear their husbands Hanes of BVD's when Aunt Flo is visiting. Quite the fad several years back was for young HS girls to wear men's boxers as outerwear.

GG get to wear virtually anything and everything the entire spectrum of men's and women's clothing ~ in so long as its "occasion" appropriate.

Women get to be heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual or even tri-sexual, (as in trying anything with anybody)

But if your born a male? Your confined to this tiny little constrictions as how your suppose to dress, behave, act, and present yourself to the world.

The conotation is that if your a transgendered male your less than a man ~ that your weak. Total and complete bull hockey pucks.

I know! I've more than "validated" my masculinity throughout the course of my life. Being an all-state defensive linebacker, 20+ year United States Marine, expert with the rifle, pistol and other various weapons. Having gone through jungle, mountain and desert warfare training. Having gone trough wars, combat, etc ad nauseum.

Girls just want to have fun, and being a girl is fun. Cross dressing is fun, dressing up is fun, pretending to be someone or something else is fun. Being a girl or being girly is fun. Shopping is fun ~ a lot of things that women naturally get to do and enjoy but not men ~ is just plain old fashion,

There's no doubt in my military mind that I've a partially feminized brain housing group. I've zero spatial perception to the extent that I cannot even wrap a present, I'm lousy at math, I talk endlessly ~ all things that if one has done any study leans toward the feminine.

But there are women that are great at such things.

My point, there are women that are strictly heterosexual but more masculine than your typical male ~ and ditto for some men.

The big problem for the OP is the word "Alabama" (Where I'm from and currently reside)

Were to be found out that I was a CD'r ~ I would be black listed socially, would probally lose my job, and would have a very hard time finding another one, even if the economy was booming. :dh:

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And your point is what?

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Originally Posted by Dana

Are you kidding me? :d'oh:

You see everyday all over the place. Downtown, WallyWorld. Some of the are heterosexual and just feel more comfortable wearing their BF's or DH's clothes. I've spoken to some that wear their husbands Hanes of BVD's when Aunt Flo is visiting. Quite the fad several years back was for young HS girls to wear men's boxers as outerwear.

GG get to wear virtually anything and everything the entire spectrum of men's and women's clothing ~ in so long as its "occasion" appropriate.

Women get to be heterosexual, bisexual, homosexual or even tri-sexual, (as in trying anything with anybody)

But if your born a male? Your confined to this tiny little constrictions as how your suppose to dress, behave, act, and present yourself to the world.

The conotation is that if your a transgendered male your less than a man ~ that your weak. Total and complete bull hockey pucks.

I know! I've more than "validated" my masculinity throughout the course of my life. Being an all-state defensive linebacker, 20+ year United States Marine, expert with the rifle, pistol and other various weapons. Having gone through jungle, mountain and desert warfare training. Having gone trough wars, combat, etc ad nauseum.

Girls just want to have fun, and being a girl is fun. Cross dressing is fun, dressing up is fun, pretending to be someone or something else is fun. Being a girl or being girly is fun. Shopping is fun ~ a lot of things that women naturally get to do and enjoy but not men ~ is just plain old fashion,

There's no doubt in my military mind that I've a partially feminized brain housing group. I've zero spatial perception to the extent that I cannot even wrap a present, I'm lousy at math, I talk endlessly ~ all things that if one has done any study leans toward the feminine.

But there are women that are great at such things.

My point, there are women that are strictly heterosexual but more masculine than your typical male ~ and ditto for some men.

The big problem for the OP is the word "Alabama" (Where I'm from and currently reside)

Were to be found out that I was a CD'r ~ I would be black listed socially, would probally lose my job, and would have a very hard time finding another one, even if the economy was booming. :dh:

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99% of the women that do wear some articals of mens clothes are not pretending to be a guy, so I don't see why thats such an issue with you..there still presenting as a female..not as a male or any other sort of gender bending..

I do think it is unfair that you would have to give up something you enjoy b/c the person you married didn't know u did this before u got married. If you love someone u should be more understanding of there feelings.
Some say family first but what about your own self that should come first. Because if your not happy no one in your family will either.

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Originally Posted by crusadergirl

I do think it is unfair that you would have to give up something you enjoy b/c the person you married didn't know u did this before u got married. If you love someone u should be more understanding of there feelings.
Some say family first but what about your own self that should come first. Because if your not happy no one in your family will either.

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Unfair?????So I take it that you don't consider it a 2 way street then, huh...it's all about your feelings and not theirs..

Good luck on your relationship then, if that's what you think a relationship is all about, but regardless, your idea seems a bit too one sided to me..

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Originally Posted by paulaluvssz8

I'm going to have to make a decesion about me, and my cding. I will assure you all that first and foremost I will keep my family in mind. I will only do what's best for us. And if I have to dress in the closet while she is gone. Well that's what I'll do. Just to keep peace and togetherness. I'm aware the dressing is a choice for me. I do it for the pleasure, and I know that must really bother others.

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That so many here have IGNORED your situation, and comments. Apparently MORE INTERESTED in presenting their OWN points of view?

Altho, I wouldn't EXACTLY say Cding is an OPTION for me, I DO dress in the closet. And I don't need to go out dressed. I dress because it EXCITES me! Sounds like u may be similar, Paula.:)

Sounds like you've ALREADY solved your problem, without much help from us here! I was going to suggest closet dressing as a possible solution! Until your kids r grown, or until you've HAD ENUFF of your SO. After 20 years, I'm SURE it can be difficult to keep the relationship healthy and happy!

Another idea:
Take trips away by yourself. Dress in hotels, or somewhere where no one knows u.
I think u should tell your wife what you're doing, tho. It may be more acceptable, if she knows you'll dress without ANYONE knowing, or seeing u!:brolleyes: