What percentage of all CDrs to you think pass?

I agree with the <5% passing, but I really like that distinction between passing and going un-noticed. Though I've gone out dressed and gone un-noticed, I don't think I pass. I had a conversation with a friend about this and we both think that it's not just the body size, frame, build, type, etc. but also the aura - by which I don't mean some spooky thing but just things like subtle mannerisms and behaviors and ways of doing things that we normally don't notice when present in a woman but do notice when lacking in what appears to be a woman (even though we may not be able to place our finger on what seems to be strange).

But I think part of it also has to do with the setting and context, and the culture of perception. I don't know - now I'm beginning to babble...sorry!

My wild guess based on seeing literally hundreds of CDs, Tgirls, TS's.....

Passable 2%
Blendable 8%

So if ya have ten CDs at a bar, party, event...one will be passable or at least blendable.

Now there is another category. The pretty CD. You know she is a CD. Not passable but for some crazy reason they are pretty as heck. I see a lot of those maybe another 10% of the total.

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Originally Posted by Deidra Cowen

Now there is another category. The pretty CD. You know she is a CD. Not passable but for some crazy reason they are pretty as heck. I see a lot of those maybe another 10% of the total.

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deidra's response addresses a question I asked earlier - can you be attractive if not passable. I know I've seen a lot of very pretty women on this site....even if not perfectly passable.

A percentage???

Wow, make it tough why dont you?!

Depends on what you mean passable.
If you mean
-Can walk down the street, or through a mall and not get instantly read as a man. (Depending on clothes choice)
Then 10-15%

If you mean
-Can have face to face conversations with people, can wear what they want, act how they want, wear very little make-up... y'know... pass for a woman...
Then <3%

Purely going off pictures I see on here and on chat.

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Originally Posted by Deidra Cowen

My wild guess based on seeing literally hundreds of CDs, Tgirls, TS's.....

Passable 2%
Blendable 8%

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Dang....I guess the tens of thousands of TS girls living stealth don't count?

Closer to zero... But then again who cares who passes as long as your having fun?

ALL of the CDs that I work with that use that word do not ever get close to reaching that pie in the sky vision.

On the other hand I have met a fair share of CDs that do go out in the world and fit in just fine. Can people tell? Yes but because they could care less about what other people think, and because they carry themselves with confidence nobody ever gives them a hard time.

the P word really equals failure.

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Originally Posted by Amanda666

Dang....I guess the tens of thousands of TS girls living stealth don't count?

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The thread was asking about CDs ...I kinda took it as the whole spectrum from casual CD to FT TS. But I know stealth girls too sweetie. I dated one at one point. So I know they are out there. But they are very rare...yeap in the two percent but rare.

I know a lot of girls and guys get upset about passing and all that. Hey I'm not passable but I get a huge kick out of those girls that do. Does not bother me...well would luv to be passable but hey I have fun with it and just try to max out da look.

By the way your avatar/profile pic is lovely and quite stealthy. :devil:

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Originally Posted by Persephone

Sorry, Majestyk, but I think you're swimmin' in denial on this one.

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Or maybe she just sees things differently than you do.

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Sure, many folks are "handicapped" by physical factors, and, unfortunately, for some it may even be pretty damn impossible. While I do feel very bad for them, this post isn't about them, but about the large number of people for whom passing is very possible.

The problem is that many don't try to be the very best that they can be, they settle for mediocrity

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Or maybe they just see things differently than you do.

Yes, I bet with a crap ton of work, body shapers, hunting down the right tops and layering on makeup and spending a lot of time on maintaining wig, I could "pass." But I look great and feel great the way I dress. I have also seen many CDs who look great how they are and might "pass" better with more work but I don't think it would make them any more attractive. It's not settling for mediocrity, it's someone achieving their own level of happiness.

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You want to win the prize you gotta stop whining, get off your butt and work at it.

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Again, maybe they see "the prize" differently than you do.

Literally passing? Almost none. In the "I'm not sure from a distance" category a bit higher number. And in the dark of night from a distance, the number goes up.
Some of the girls who get comments online like,"oh, I'd think you were a woman" most of them up close in person wouldn't get the same comment. Pretty, femme CD, yes. As the guy at the end of "Some Like it Hot" said,"nobody's perfect."

i would have to say less than 5% can "pass".

but up to 60-70% can blend in, with no real problems.

as i people watch, just looking for things, i might have seen a cd/ts/tg pass by and might have even missed a couple.
but i will never call them out, for any reason..
but if there is trouble...but then i would even call out if the one about to be in trouble is a gg. (just think safety here).

even seen some real girls that could be a very badley done up tg person.:eek:. at least i belive they were gg.........:o

.

I think a huge margin of GG don't pass to well either. When we say pass what we are saying is not the same thing we are thinking.

The below is for both sexes

If you are over weight = not passing
If you dress badly = not passing
If your makeup gets applied with a spatula = not passing
Or if you need the above to remove it also!

If your hair is a rats nest or too short for your face = not passing
If you wear clothes for comfort and throw style to the wind = Not passing
If you sound like Susan Estridge from Fox News = not passing

I could go on and on but you get the idea, we set ridiculous standards on things and stop looking at a persons heart.

I met a girl at the SCC last year, she did not dress so well or pass so well. But we started talking and she had this heart of gold, I was looking into her eyes and listing to her heart and then all I saw was this beautiful american indian woman I was in awe with. I wanted more, to hear more. She came dressed as Sacajawea for heros night and looked amazing! I only wish to meet her again.

Do you pass is not a visual thing, it is a personnel thing. Mean people will be mean and point out your flaws. Do you think fat chicks don't get made fun of, and they are GG's? It is sad but honestly equal negative effect for both, but we take our clothes off, over weight GG's cant change so easily.

I am not making fun of overweight people at all just in case you want to flame me, I am only using the stigma placed on the condition to help others understand the similarity to our own, I know some of us are also overweight, I was too! I made a public post with pictures when I was 230 pounds, I am now 172 pounds.

If you move from the house to the real world in Fem, you are BEAUTIFUL, do you pass? Most likely not!

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Originally Posted by Deidra Cowen

My wild guess based on seeing literally hundreds of CDs, Tgirls, TS's.....

Passable 2%
Blendable 8%

So if ya have ten CDs at a bar, party, event...one will be passable or at least blendable.

Now there is another category. The pretty CD. You know she is a CD. Not passable but for some crazy reason they are pretty as heck. I see a lot of those maybe another 10% of the total.

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I second this. About 2% can pass in 99% of the time. Maybe 1% can fool everyone all the time. About 10% can blend, usually.

I would say about 15% pass on a dime and another 15% that could if they put thier minds to it. For those of us that go out, 95% have a great time without incident regardless if they pass or not.

I would have to a agree not very many When you get several together fewer pass. Alone maybe 10 to 15% but not if some one looks closely. Ant there are sometimes that we pass fine and other not so much.
I can speak for myself and say that I feel I pass OK some of the time and other times I can be read by a blind man on a dark night.
I'll say maybe 5% all the time and the rest some of the time 10 to 15%

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Originally Posted by Persephone

Sorry, Majestyk, but I think you're swimmin' in denial on this one.

Sure, many folks are "handicapped" by physical factors, and, unfortunately, for some it may even be pretty damn impossible. While I do feel very bad for them, this post isn't about them, but about the large number of people for whom passing is very possible.

The problem is that many don't try to be the very best that they can be, they settle for mediocrity.

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Well, there is this non-stop insecurity on forums and such about "most CD's can't pass" so probably a lot of CD and even TS might eventually think "Why even try?" and pretty much give up. Some people rely heavily on forums for their validation or whatever. You hear about girls going out cause of inspiration sought on the stories here, and that is great. But now what about the ones who are afraid to go out or try to look good cause well, they probably are not in the theoretical 1-5% who can pass and even if they do, then this or that is lacking and what if someone notices... :brolleyes:

See that is the problem, too many CD and TS seek validation from their very competition. I mean even a few of the really pretty passable TS here seem insecure cause of the constant "well maybe 1% actually pass and even if you do, what about this and that...?"

Ladies and gents I am gonna tell you like this - in the real world, people are not going to judge as harshly as they do on forums. TG are harder on each other than anyone else is. So now, exactly who are the *real* TG bashers?

I am just glad I learned about the TG life before I learned what forums and chat were about. Gyod if this had been my first step, I would have never came out of the closet.

What's the percentage? ... I have absolutely no idea. All I can tell you is that (and I really mean this) I would say 9 times out of 10 when I go out in mainstream public places I feel like I never even get a second look (weird I know!). Do I pass? (in the sense that people think I'm female - albeit an ugly one with too much makeup).... I really don't know ... maybe, but that's only because they're too busy minding their own business and I don't particularly stand out (5ft 4in, 130lbs, and dressing to blend in). It also got to do with being "trans-aware" ... take my wife, she's very trans-aware, she can read almost anyone, yet she herself will tell you, go back 10 years where her awareness was no more than regular Joe Public and she would have "missed" a lot of girls who walked right by her. :)

Good friend Josette, (who is a GG) always reminds me about our Favorite Story. We have attended numerous TG events, and almost always somebody will come up to Josette and tell her how "passable" she looks. Josette having a sense of humor, and being nobody's fool; always gives credit to Josette's Dressing Service..."They made me The passable Gurl that I am today!" So a lot of this stuff is about somebody else's "perception of gender."

We always seem to get trapped into these involved discussions, and really IMHO it doesn't matter! I don't know why we knock ourselves out with such foolishness. Ultimately, why should we care, why should anyone else care, whether we are passable or not. It's just not very important!

And, here's my clincher why it doesn't matter. Most gurls who spend much of any time actually "out there" would probably back me up. The Percentage of TG Women who are "passable" to ALL persons 24/7? That would be ZERO! Everybody eventually gets Read. The good thing is that if your not being a public nuisance, not trying to be overly flamboyant, nor provocative, it just doesn't matter to 99% of The people you will encounter.

By all means, try to look as nice and be as femme as Your Little Heart desires. But do not kid yourself, never to be discovered? It just ain't going to happen!

Peace and Love, Joanie

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

What's the percentage? ... I have absolutely no idea. All I can tell you is that (and I really mean this) I would say 9 times out of 10 when I go out in mainstream public places I feel like I never even get a second look (weird I know!). Do I pass? (in the sense that people think I'm female - albeit an ugly one with too much makeup).... I really don't know ... maybe, but that's only because they're too busy minding their own business and I don't particularly stand out (5ft 4in, 130lbs, and dressing to blend in). It also got to do with being "trans-aware" ... take my wife, she's very trans-aware, she can read almost anyone, yet she herself will tell you, go back 10 years where her awareness was no more than regular Joe Public and she would have "missed" a lot of girls who walked right by her. :)

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Holy cow I did not know you were that short! Lucky girl, thats a great asset.

I hope I don't offend ya Rachel but I get the impression you probably are at best in boy mode pretty much androgenous. In girl mode your fem features pop and you are one of the lucky ones. Get over the "ugly one" stuff, your a very beautiful girl and I get the vibe from your posts over the years that your actually an intelligent and sweet person too. Not a bitchy wild child like I am. :devil:

The Trans Aware point is important! Ya could probably double my percentages that I gave if its a civilian (regular joe) doing the spotting as opposed to one of us with our super tuned in Tgirl radar.

Hmm.

Percentage of all CDs who pass? You'd need to know accurately what percentage of all CDs go out to even start to answer the question.

Here's a few percentage estimates based on my own experience.

Percentage of CDs who successfully pass in the eyes of most people, some of the time, while not in the company of other CDs, around 5%. Percentage who could do this if they wanted to and had the confidence and skills to do so, around 50%.

Percentage of CDs who successfully pass in the eyes of a few of the people, most of the time, while not in the company of other CDs, around 80%. Percentage who could do this if they wanted to and had the confidence and skills to do so, around 98%.

Percentage of CDs who successfully pass in the eyes of most observers when in the company of other CDs = 5*(1+c)/(n^2), where n is the number of CDs in the group and c is the number of cisgendered people in the group. In other words, the dilution of CDs within a group of non-crossdressed people increases passability, but the number of CDs within that group reduces the passability of each CD far more rapidly.

Do I pass? I don't now, because nobody actively approaches me to tell me. :p It's probably a safe bet that the woman in the local shopping centre (mall) who wanted to talk me into trying out a hair straightener a few weeks ago didn't realise that I was wearing a synthetic wig at the time, and didn't appear to have read me. ;)

[SIZE=4]Most of us do not "pass" in public. :sad:

I used to think that was the ultimate goal for me. I wanted desperately to be seen only as a woman and not "read" as a CD. In the last few years my confidence has grown and when I go out I am not concerned with being "read" even though I do my very best to present myself as a woman to the world. It's no longer about "passing" for me, but about being me and expressing the woman inside.
If I am "read" so be it. :tongueout

I don't do this for everyone else, I do this for me.[/SIZE] :gfi:

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Originally Posted by Persephone

Sorry, Majestyk, but I think you're swimmin' in denial on this one.

Sure, many folks are "handicapped" by physical factors, and, unfortunately, for some it may even be pretty damn impossible. While I do feel very bad for them, this post isn't about them, but about the large number of people for whom passing is very possible.

The problem is that many don't try to be the very best that they can be, they settle for mediocrity.

Passing is like any other skill, you have to work your butt off to make it happen. It's a lot of work, so most people fall back on their "I can't pass" excuse.

Yes, there are a million things you have to work on -- loosing the beer gut, how to walk, how to talk, how to minimize your figure flaws and maximize your good points, how to survive in "girl world," you name it, but it can be done if you're willing.

And, frankly, most of it is exactly what GG's do, the only difference is that they often learned the skills earlier than we did. Sure, mother nature may have given them a boost or two, but you think they just float through girl world? Ask 'em, they'll tell you it ain't that easy.

You want to win the prize you gotta stop whining, get off your butt and work at it.

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sorry sweetie,but you're the one in denial....

I want to be a superstar guitarist, talent matters, alot.

being tolerated is great, and its what we should go for as our minimum need when we are out and about...

Passing posts always degenerate int p*ssing posts. You want to look like "a girl" and the fact is you want to look like a specific girl. You want to walk like the "regular" woman, you want to talk like a regular woman. But there are no regular women. The walk you epitomize is learned and trained and most women don't walk like that. The "tells" are no accurate. There are women who are 6'6" and women who have broad shoulders and even women with facial hair and Adam's apples and hands they can palm a basketball with. You cannot look or act like every woman. They don't come out a mold.

So can you pass? If passing means you aren't confronted, yes. If it means someone won't know you are really male, no. It takes a lot of work and usually a fair amount of surgery to look like Talia. But you can look like Julia Childs. She was all woman but didn't fit the criteria that seems to be the epitome here.

The more you worry about "passing" the more you won't. If you have to think about doing something it becomes noticeable. Be you. Be confident. Be relaxed. No one will say anything to you unless they are just rude or drunk. Rudeness you can't do anything about. Drunk is self inflicted. Both are a very small percentage of the population. Probably equal to the number of CD's who "Pass".

I passed in my youth. Those days are gone. :doh:
But I think a lot more of us could pass with the right "look". My definition of "passing" is going the whole time you're out without anyone else thinking "is that a guy?".

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Passing posts always degenerate int p*ssing posts. You want to look like "a girl" and the fact is you want to look like a specific girl. You want to walk like the "regular" woman, you want to talk like a regular woman. But there are no regular women. The walk you epitomize is learned and trained and most women don't walk like that. The "tells" are no accurate. There are women who are 6'6" and women who have broad shoulders and even women with facial hair and Adam's apples and hands they can palm a basketball with. You cannot look or act like every woman. They don't come out a mold.

So can you pass? If passing means you aren't confronted, yes. If it means someone won't know you are really male, no. It takes a lot of work and usually a fair amount of surgery to look like Talia. But you can look like Julia Childs. She was all woman but didn't fit the criteria that seems to be the epitome here.

The more you worry about "passing" the more you won't. If you have to think about doing something it becomes noticeable. Be you. Be confident. Be relaxed. No one will say anything to you unless they are just rude or drunk. Rudeness you can't do anything about. Drunk is self inflicted. Both are a very small percentage of the population. Probably equal to the number of CD's who "Pass".

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:yt:

Feeling good about yourself is usually learned behavior...asking this question is just fueling the fires of insecurity...btw...i have asked this many times LOL..so do what i say, not what i do!!!