Week 3 Inquiring Minds Want To Know !

Week 3
7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

I think it is difficult to determine if I "pass" as circumstances may have an impact. My GW friend says that I pass as do my "T" friends. I have carried on conversations with many (some fairly long) and have had no indication that the other people did not think that I was a woman. I have been en femme in many venues and have had no indication that I was "read" (hate that term).

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

No, I do not think that it does.

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

This sounds like a "trick" question! If I assume that the "average GG" is what I see most often, then I am tempted to answer in the positive. I do think that I make more of an effort to appear and act "lady-like" than the "average GG", per the above.

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Originally Posted by Di

Week 3
7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

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7) Only time I pass is when I'm on my Harley.

8) My voice is bad even for a male, yuk

9) I feel some time that way after I have a professional do me up but thats the only time I come close to that.

I don't believe I pass very well
more than my voice would give me away
Absolutly not. You gg's are much better in every way

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you? I never go out in public but I don't think I would fool anyone for long.

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read? No, My large hands and short fingers would be another thing I would be worried about.

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do? I have not posted anything to that effect and I would not say I was prettier than most GGs.

We GG;s really appreciate everyone being so up front and helpful.:love::love::love::love::love::love::love: :love:

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Originally Posted by Di

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

I feel that my passing is viewed at 15 ft with a glance. not getting the 2nd look is what i strive for. upoc further inspection, i am sure that i would be read.
8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

I have a decent girls voice, although in extended conversation, the voice may trail downward at the end of a sentance, instead of upward as i see most GG's do. [ lack of concentration...lol]
9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

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This is an awful broad stroke here. I pride myself in striving to be just the girl next door..i don't do Glamorous presentations.
if a woman travels dailey in bib jeans and a plaid work shirt as normal attire...then i feel i can be more feminine. If you compare me to any woman wearing the same ensemble as me in a picture shoot, I believe the GG would win hands down every time.:sad: but i guess this is as it should be, sorta:daydreaming:

Working with what God Gave me to find my place in the middle:hugs:

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

I don't normally use the word "pass" and don't place much value on the concept. However, I have been told by some GGs that they would never guess I'm not a GG if they saw me on the street. I take that with a grain of salt because I have been clocked at times, most notably by teenage girls.

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

That's the primary reason, but not the only. The usual suspects--large hands and feet, Adam's apple, etc.--also factor in.

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

I've never posted or expressed such thoughts. I'm not sure what the average GG is, as women are so varied in real life. I'm not in competition with them, I just want to look and feel the best that I can.

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you? Wow, there aren't enough laughing smilies in the world for that question. People know immediately when I'm out there. From a distance, to someone very nearsighted, from the back, and with many other caveats, I might be mistaken for a woman. A very skinny, angular, big-armed, broad-shouldered, ham-handed woman. :)

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read? Once again, I need more smileys. Although some (very kind, very nearsighted) women have said they didn't know until I spoke, my voice definitely does give me away - especially since I don't change it at all.

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do? Again with the laugh-inducing questions?! It's a good thing I'm not drinking milk right now, or it would be spraying from my nose. :)

Women rock. They are all wonderful, gorgeous, amazing creations - all women! They just have a natural beauty inside them - whether due to nature or nurture, who knows? That beauty manifests itself in everything they do. Most of us do not have that beauty. We can pad ourselves perfectly, we can cover ourselves in pretty clothes, we can bring the MAC girls to their knees with our cosmetic might, but we're just missing the spark - that essential feminine spark - that brings everything together.

Am I more feminine or prettier than an "average GG" (if there is such a thing)? No. I may be more so than some at the low end of the bell curve, but most women are so far past me in those departments that I can't even get close enough to see the target that they represent.

Kathi

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Week 3
7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

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Oh my goodness! First of all, I would never say that I pass. Any assessment about me would have to come from someone else.

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8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

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Voice maybe. My typical male figure takes a lot of padding and carefully selected clothing to hide.

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9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do

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Never, never, never! Did I mention never! Regardless of how they fix their hair, apply makeup or not, or manner of dress, natural born females exude femininity. That is something I can only aspire too but never achieve.

Babette

Pass, If I thought I could, I would not be in this closet, If I passed there would be no reason to stay in it, who would know!

Voice, in 8th grade I started singing bass, and in all these years it has not gotten any higher, I did try to create a feminine voice once, but the wife didn't seem comfortable with it, so I gave it up.

Prettier than the average GG, at my age, size, and weight it's not going to happen, I have been told I looked cute, but that was the clothes, not the guy inside. Am I prettier than some GG's then maybe I could say yes, I remember some of the "women" weight lifters the U.S.S.R. used to send to the Olympics, I might have given a couple of them a run for it. But the rest of you, your all Miss Universe, standing next to me!
Tina B.
By the way, I think the CD's are enjoying these questions allot, it was a good idea.

Hmmm, interesting questions.

As many others have already stated, I do not use or give much value to the term passing. When I look in the mirror I see a somewhat respectable imitation of a female. But that is according to my eye which I am sure is bias on my side. I venture out often and have almost never had people start jumping up and down and yelling about the guy in a dress so I must also be blending in somewhat.

Sure, my voice is a give away along with some other issues. My hands are not small enough, nor are the boats I lovingly refer to as my feet. I am too tall and could shed a few, ok more than a few, pounds.

I have never even thought about comparing myself to a gg because I hate to loose. Oh I am sure that there are 1 or 2 females in the world who I might compete with, but on a whole there is now way I can compare with the average looking gg.

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

Never really thought about it that far...
Usually when referring to the second, I say things like "passing all the way"... So I guess when just saying "passing" I'm referring to the first. To me, the first is a realistic goal, while the second is probably a dream that won't happen for most of us.

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

At this moment (not out yet) I can't say. I do know that the voice is surely the hardest thing to change, and could still be giving myself away on a silver plate when looks and appearance do pass.

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

I never posted such thoughts, and I don't see myself as prettier than average GGs. But what is an "average GG" anyway? Every person is unique.
I do crossdressing for myself, so I try to aim in being as pretty as possible. When looking at other girls and actually comparing myself with them, it's more to find things I can learn from them. I don't believe myself to be more feminine, because I just am myself and I try to act normally, not overdoing anything. I do know I'm definitely more feminine than the "average guy" though ;)

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

I have always strived for "Pass me by" before they do their double take. I just want folks to not have a reason to start laughing in my face. I prefer to have it take place behind me so I don't join in and ruin my makeup with tears of laughter.

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

Only if I'm not standing up (6'1"), they can't see my face or hands or shoulders or feet. Actually my voice is the best part of my presentation and it's not very good at all. Particularly when I join in with the people who started laughing at me.

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

No way, not in any way, shape or form. I hope I've never posted anything that would be interpreted that way. I do believe that I can use padding, clothing, wigs, accessories and makeup to approach, but not achieve, how women appear naturally. I also want to believe that I can be a bit more fashionable than some women who don't seem to want to expend the same energy. Style and effort has to take the place of femininity and actually being pretty. I have to give some positive self-feedback or I wouldn't keep doing this. If I live in a bit of a fantasy world and it makes me feel better, I guess I'll do that.

Now there are a small number of crossdressers here who are built to pass and do it well. I hope they are willing to post their responses, because I've seen some of them in person and they Pass visually, have a good voice and can behave in a very feminine manner.

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Originally Posted by Di

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

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I don't "pass" I don't want to "Pass". I don't expect to "Pass" I wish I could post a picture I have with three guys standing next to me...I look like I am 25% larger than the others in the pictures and they were male...If there were a female in the photo I would dwarf them. Passing is over rated and most of the time beyond the ability for any male without surgery. Males stare at me anyway.

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8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

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See above. I know there are women out there who are over 6 feet tall and I know women with deeper voices.

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9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

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This sounds like someone looking for an argument. Did I miss these posts? Most the TG's here would kill to look as good as a GG not better than a GG. I have a challange for all the people here who go out in public. It is called "spot the person who reads all the posts on CD.com in a crowd". It is an easy game, with all the "advice" that is posted here about how to look more feminine (walking talking drinking whatever) these people end up exactly how we don't want to be seen...as parodies. What would more feminine be? Over the top, blatantly gay? The contestants on RuPaul's show (which some here seem to see an ideal...if that is your aspiration you are trying to look or act as a female). You know that the posts where someone says "I am much more feminine than...(my wife, GF, the girls at the mall, female wrestlers, Jennifer Lopez)" are posted in anger or jealousy. I have not read any responses above but if anyone says they are more feminine or prettier than the average woman, they will need help desperately (and we wonder why the divorce rate on thees boards is so high?). Given the two answers to choose from, for fun would win. How about because I like it?

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Originally Posted by Di

Week 3
7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

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7. not stand out as a guy
8) nope height, shoulders, hands as well
9) not hardly - only in my dreams

First off, when a guy in the bar tries to break the ice by saying you are so passable, that says just the opposite... giggle

Been in the mall and no body saying anything and smiles from the sales ladies. Been alone in a normal crowd bar all dressed up and treated more kindly than normal. Even had a bump into with someone once, where I dropped what I was carrying and he helped me pick the things up, and then after being right in my face commenting, I'm sorry I thought you were a woman. (No apology required.)

All these things are what passable means to my in-experianced CD ego, and they make me feel good.

I have been told by someone before that she didn't realize I was a CD until I spoke... and at other times people just don't seem to be phased when I speak... I assume that would mean they already know.

As far as being prettier than GG. Now that is certianly not true, as my biggest admiration is when I see a beautiful woman with short hair and drab clothes and you can still tell, and she is still gorgeous. On the otherhand, there are so many GG that go ouyt of their way to dress as masculine as possible, and I don't mean butch either. Aloyt of GG are more comfy in jeans and a tshirt. My duaghters for example, save their pretty dresses only for special occasions. I see them in pictures looking like woman, but not very often do I see them first hand all dolled up and feminine.

A bunch of good looking CDs in dresses would be prettier than a group of GG super models in jeans and tshirts. For the simple fact that presentation matters.

Way too few GGs that prefer to wear a dress or skirt these days.

Week 3
7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?
I dont beleave i "pass" but I have met some GG that look like men I just try to look my best for me and the mood i am in.






8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

I have a deep voice so yes it is one thing we cant change easily wish we could. yes it is a give away

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

Do GGs think we dress because we beleave we a prettier than them mmm interesting if they do. I do not know anyone who has ever said that on this or any forum. I certainly have not.

I don't pass, I present. Watching the expressions on the faces when I'm "made" is all part of the fun.

Like I said, I don't pass and the deep voice is part of not passing.

No way I could compete with a GG for looks. Can only hope to look good enough, that my presentation is accepted for what it is. Nobody yet has said, "Hey, you're a guy!" I do get "maamed" quite often, but I think it's more because they want me to come back and spend more dollars.

7) To me passing means that you've downplayed your male "clues" and played up the feminine "clues" to every extent possible. Almost all of us have something that is just so "male" that no matter what we do we will be "read" is someone takes the time to do so (for me it's my hands and some masculine facial features). In the best of all worlds, there are so many feminine "clues" that they swamp the male clues almost all of the time.

8) My voice quality is almost ok, but I still don't use it well enough to be flawless in using the non-bass voice patterns. Also I'm not sure I use words properly yet, but I'm getting there. I doubt that I could be read on the phone at this point :)

9) more feminine or prettier than the average GG?? from your mouth to God's ears! LOL Not a chance. Anyway, what is an average GG, anyway? To me it's not a competition but a desire for acceptance. Why would I do anything to jeapardize that acceptance with some kind of arrogant comments? yuck!

I think I missed the train on the past weeks, but...

7) Passing to me is similar to being "invisible" in a crowd. I have only been out a couple of times in a downtown setting, briefly to document some activities of people I was hired to track. (long story, business related). I am confident I accomplished the mission on both counts. (invisibility and the other job).

8) So far I have not been "read", but l have only gone in public a couple of times. My voice would surely reveal me, as well as other things, I am sure...if I was to give anyone face-to-face time at any length during daylight.

9) I like to fool myself on some issues. But this is not one of them. If I could pull that off, I would probably be in porn movies by now...which unfortunately where many of the "hotties" seem to be. (just my observation, lol):love:

[SIZE="3"]Passing, when i throw the basketball, football. OK, I very seldom go out, but, i think it is when i stay at a distance, and quiet, mind my own business, but, at 6'6", 250, huge hands, long chin, and jaw, and size16 womens shoes, I stick out like a defensive end! Voice? Bad, even for a guy! I think i have legs, that look like a GG's, and dress more classy, than most, but, if they all dressed classy, I would be dull in comparison.[/SIZE]

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?


For me it's more of not being known as a guy in a dress by people walking past. If you look close enough, telltale signs are gonna show unless you're transitioning, and even then...

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

voice, chin, hands... from a distance I get confused for a girl most times, but up close, it's easy. fortunately, i don't have an adam's apple, otherwise it'd be really easy.

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?


it's neither really for me. It's more of... an ideal... a standard I try to meet, though admittedly it's become easier through practice.

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

I would never say I pass, except perhaps as a silhouette in the distance.

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

If I have not bee reead by my appearance, my voide would be a dead giveaway.

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

Hell no! I have never posted such thoughts. I'm just a guy who loves to wear feminine things.

Rachael

7.I use the words blend in. In my case I think they fit better.

8. I use my voice very little when I go out. I,s sure it gives me away.

9. No I do not.


P.S. I think the idea of weekly question is GREAT :-)

7) When you say that you "pass", do you mean that you do not stand out as a guy if people don't look too closely, or do you mean that strangers will mistake you for a GG when they stare at you?

I believe, and experience in the great vanilla daylight outdoors indicate that I do pass until I am quite close to the observer. If people stare, they will see that some things are perhaps just out of phase. I try and mostly succeed in fitting in with my environments, and so I do not attract any more attention than the average GG gets.

8) Do you feel it is only your voice that gives you away when you are read?

Per last answer, no. I require a good amount of foundation to obscure shadow. That is a good tell. I do not really alter my voice when I engage with people though, so, when I do, the cat is fully out of the bag.

9) Do you really believe yourself to be more feminine, prettier, etc, than the average GG, or do you post these thoughts just because it is a fun thing to do?

Far from it. I believe that I have junior membership in a female sorority, much to learn, and much to aspire to. I do wish I had started my apprenticeship much earlier in life though. Alas.

Great survey. Looking forward to more questions, and your notes and findings.

xxoo - Petra