A question to the CD's

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

My wife knows of my cross-dressing. ... Somehow she (and probably other gg's) figure there must be something lacking in the relationship because I cross-dress. On the conscious level?- I don't think so.

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My SO once said that maybe if she wore make-up and jewelry this desire of mine to do so would not exist. 'Fraid I don't know whether it would or not. But I try to take her feelings into account. We are just starting down this road together and there is enough stress in our lives without the need of adding more unnecessarily. Since I haven't done much (time or item wise) it hasn't been a problem yet but we don't know where it is leading and can't tell what the boundaries are yet until we reach them. Hopefully they will be such that both of us can be content with them. Only time will tell.

Wsprs, relationships should be based on openness, trust, and honesty. I'd like to add that I'm strictly an "in house" CD'er, so public observation or recognition is not an issue. I divulged my CD'ing activity to my GF with the intention of complete disclosure, in order to allow her to decide if she considered it a "deal breaker". She's not really pleased with it, but as long as she's not expected to participate, she understands that I'm going to dress as I please when we're apart. It's my life, and I'll do what I want. I'd never try to control her, and I expect the same in return.

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWInd

His just desserts will come when EVERYBODY finds out about him, IMO.

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Since you stated you were "venting", maybe I shouldn't react as strongly to your quote above as I'm about to. But you've touched a nerve with it, and so I will.

I've read way too many posts from GG's about how they were deceived by not being told about their SO's CD'ing. Yeah, openness is a virtue. But so is confidentiality. And that's why CD'ers tend to keep it secret. We don't need to be outed by a vindictive ex, no matter what her supposed justification is. And to think she'd relish the thought of her former partner suffering public, private, or family humiliation is abhorrent. And exceedingly objectionable.

OK, I've vented now, too. And I won't apologize for doing so. Yeah, I wear clothing designed and intended for women. And I'm a guy. A crossdresser. That's my business, and nobody else's. Woe be it to anyone seeking to shame me.

After all is said and done, testosterone drives me. And anyone seeking to harm me will suffer the repercussions of their actions. I don't get mad; I get even.

Rebecca Lynn, I think you misunderstood wsprs. I've known her for over 2 years. Believe me when I tell you that she is not the type of woman that would vindictively expose her ex-boyfriend. What she means is, everybody will find out about him on their own. Wsprs is done with this self absorbed, hedonistic, arrogant idiot that never showed her any appreciation for her in his life. He was a user, cheater and a liar. Now please, don't ask me how I really feel about this guy.

Brandy, I'm in your, and Wsprs's, court. I've read many of your posts, and hers, as well. You've found happiness, and she was wronged. Were I single, and in Tennessee, I'd look her up. I think she's gorgeous! :daydreaming:

I'm divorced, and my ex threatened to out me during that process. I countered with upping the ante regarding her crystal meth affinity, so she thought better of playing that game.

I only wanted to point out the importance of maintaining confidentiality.

If it's good enough for attorneys and medical practitioners, than we CD'ers are entitled to the same consideration! :heehee:

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWInd

Guys, CD's or otherwise, always just be honest and yourself with women up front. Don't put on this facade and act like someone you are not. If you are you from the beginning then she gets to know the real you from the start. It's not fair to anyone to mislead them to fall for someone that really don't exist. Be real and be honest b/c if you aren't it does come back to hurt YOU in the long run too.

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I'd love to see even one example of someone who did not embellish themselves at the start of a relationship or carefully avoid mention of some negative attribute. The fact is that everyone does these things. GGs take extra care with their makeup and dress, men polish their cars a bit more often and both are extra careful to tread lightly in those areas where their prospective mate might find conflict.

If we were totally honest about the way we really are the chances of a second date are pretty slim! That's the way it is here in the Real World.

The acceptance of my cross dressing by wife is one of the few things in my life that really matters. We have mutually agreed to boundaries that I respect and refuse to cross. They are never brought up in discussion. For respecting those boundaries, my wife has purchased makeup and underwear for me. She has seen me partially dressed but never with breast. I am allowed to wear anything I want to bed except for underwire bras. I would classify her as partially participating. I can say that is has been far more enjoyable with her acceptance versus keeping the full extent from her. There are no more secrets.

My wife basically tolerates my crossdressing. She would love for it to disappear but knows it won't. She is ok with my going to a once-a-month social/support group, and has attended on occasion, but for the most part she does not like nor want to be involved with the "pink fog" she has seen at these meetings. I'm ok with her not going too. Truth is that even though I could go out once a month, I only go out once or twice a year. And, I maybe dress once or twice more a year at home. More than that adds a subtle unspoken tension to the relationship that she (and I) just don't need.

Oh, and like Jennifer, we have boundary's. For instance, CDing is never a part of bedroom activities.

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Originally Posted by RebeccaLynne

Brandy, I'm in your, and Wsprs's, court. I've read many of your posts, and hers, as well. You've found happiness, and she was wronged. Were I single, and in Tennessee, I'd look her up. I think she's gorgeous! :daydreaming:

I'm divorced, and my ex threatened to out me during that process. I countered with upping the ante regarding her crystal meth affinity, so she thought better of playing that game.

I only wanted to point out the importance of maintaining confidentiality.

If it's good enough for attorneys and medical practitioners, than we CD'ers are entitled to the same consideration! :heehee:

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Rebecca,

Thank you. I don't consider myself gorgeous by any stretch.

Brandy was right in what she attributed to me about "outing" him. What I meant is that it was very unfair to me for him to protect himself from those he worked for and his family to the degree that he would never go anywhere dressed in his home town so as to hide his identity. Yet, he attacked me b/c I wouldn't go out with him in MY town dressed or b/c I wouldn't order him to get out and pull weeds in the yard dressed b/c I didn't want the neighborhood children seeing him b/c I didn't feel comfortable doing so. My point is that if you can't do it around those YOU know don't push me and ridicule ME to do it around those that I know. He would love for the world to know it but he just don't want his children (one is under age and I understand that) and clients to know.

He has already hung himself b/c he don't know how to stop running his mouth and gossiping. He's made it no secret to many in his town that he is a CD, which was to his disadvantage b/c one day it will come back to bite him. You can't "selectively" tell anything in a small town. THAT is what I mean about everybody finding out. I won't have to tell a soul b/c he don't know how to shutup and keep a secret long enough to recognize that some things that happen privately at home needs to stay at home. That was another huge problem we had. I cannot stand a gossip. Relationships are very precious and private to me and need to be guarded at all costs. There are things that you do NOT share with the whole world. I honestly don't know what he told his friends other than the emails I KNOW for sure he forwarded.

Jennifer,

I agree we all put our best foot forward when we don't know others but to falsely represent ourselves is just wrong.

Brandy,

Thanks for the help in clarification. If it weren't for you the whole time I was dating him and since we broke up, I would probably, unfairly so, hate all CD's. Thanks for standing by me when I've probably been negative and offensive toward CD's b/c of my negative experience.

I completely accepted the CD'ing and would have been perfectly happy to have been with him for the rest of my life in that regard. However, I could not accept that his love was only as long as he was getting everything he wanted. Good luck finding EVERYTHING you want b/c the kind of woman he wanted in the bedroom ain't going to be the kind of woman he's going to want around his son and to meet his mama. Oh but she would never meet his mom b/c his mommy refused to meet me b/c she wanted him to get back with his ex and she's a control freak and thinks the whole world should kiss her a$$. The world will be much better off when SHE and his ex are dead and gone b/c they BOTH waste God's good air. Then he will be lost w/o anyone to boss him around. 50 years old and still thinks he's so hot that any woman that he snaps his fingers for will fall at his feet. You would think he was the Fonze or something.

And NEVER tired of telling me that HE didn't have to argue with me b/c it was too easy for him to find women and was always bragging about all the women he's been with over the years. Mind you he never said he could KEEP any of them. They all somehow seemed to slip through his fingers, IF they existed at all. One typically don't have to brag about how great they are, how good looking they are, what a nice person they are, how good they are at their job. Good qualities show and never a word has to be spoken about them. To quote a recent comment my pastor made. "People who are beautiful and don't know it are precious but those who are and know it are hard to deal with."

Now that I look back on it he sure had to defend his sexuality a lot. I think he's actually gay or bisexual and just won't admit it to himself. I've had more than one person tell me that about him so I know it's not just me.

Am I the only GG out there that's had this experience? Surely there are more or is it so rare to find a CD that cold and self-absorbed and I just "got lucky?" Nothing new for me. I seem to be a slug magnet. lol

My Wife fully supports my dressing,and I always make sure I dont take her for granted (not to say I haven't lapsed).I love my Wife,but not just because she approved of my dressing that would most certainly not be a basis to any relationship,If she had a change in her comfort level then of course we would have to talk about her reasons but im sure we would come to a reasonable understanding,Am certain as anyone can be that our relationship is solid I couldnt imagine it not being so

Sophie

Recently I've been going out with this guy that smells so wonderfully masculine. I had forgotten how many of the little things that I love that I had sacrificed for the CD. Guys there is nothing nicer than the smell of cologne on a man. OMG, it drives me insane. I just want to lean close to him and sniff him. He's sooooooo sniffable!

As one poster commented that he got caught up in the "pink fog" please don't forget the little things that might be important to your GG's. I know much of it was my fault b/c I didn't ask him to do these things for me but I really felt bad/selfish doing so b/c I knew he had been deprived of expressing himself for so long that I wanted him to get to experience every opportunity and chance even if it was a small thing like wearing perfume when we were going out. To me his happiness was more important than what I wanted. I do not regret the sacrifice b/c that is how it is supposed to be when you love someone. I just hope that if (gulp) I ever do it again I will have learned to be even more self-sacrificing to the point of always putting his needs before my own. But honestly, if both are doing their job correctly everybody's needs get met.

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWInd

Recently I've been going out with this guy that smells so wonderfully masculine. I had forgotten how many of the little things that I love that I had sacrificed for the CD. Guys there is nothing nicer than the smell of cologne on a man.

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I think you are painting us with way too broad of a brush.Everyone here is different.If you want to "smell masculinity" give many of us a sniff BEFORE WE CLEAN UP AND PUT OUR DRESS ON ! Hope you find happiness with your version of "a real man".

Each of the two scenarios is all any crossdresser could reasonably hope for. Any more than that is simply a dream come true. None of us should expect to impart our fantasy on another. If someone is demanding any more than acceptance from you, they are being unreasonable.

My wife is a huge part of my life and very supportive of me. Were she not, I'm sure I would put dressing behind me for the most part, only very rarely in private. I would rather give up dressing than give up my wife and our relationship. Fortunately, I don't have to because she is helping me to explore things and I want her to be there by my side all the way.

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWInd

Rebecca,

Thank you. I don't consider myself gorgeous by any stretch.

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You're welcome. And unless you've airbrushed, photo-shopped or in some other way altered your avitar pic, you're really quite attractive... please don't sell yourself short! I'd be proud to have you on my arm...

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWind

Relationships are very precious and private to me and need to be guarded at all costs. There are things that you do NOT share with the whole world.

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OMG, you're a CD'ers dream girl... and if you're not grabbed up by someone here soon, I'll be astonished...

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWind

Brandy,

Thanks for the help in clarification. If it weren't for you the whole time I was dating him and since we broke up, I would probably, unfairly so, hate all CD's. Thanks for standing by me when I've probably been negative and offensive toward CD's b/c of my negative experience.

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Wsprs, Brandy's in your court... a stabilizing influence in a sea of uncertainty... she's got your back, and might even be able to hook you up... what're friends for, anyways? :heehee:

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWind

I completely accepted the CD'ing and would have been perfectly happy to have been with him for the rest of my life in that regard.

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My GF better be really nice to me.... otherwise, I'm gonna see if someone wants to enjoy the California climate... I can't believe you're unattached! Unbelieveable! Gurls?

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWind

I seem to be a slug magnet. lol

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Nah, I think you're just waiting to be discovered by the right guy... CD'er or not... hold onto the dream... it'll happen! :love:

**Partial quotes**

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWInd

Am I the only GG out there that's had this experience? Surely there are more or is it so rare to find a CD that cold and self-absorbed and I just "got lucky?" Nothing new for me. I seem to be a slug magnet. lol

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWInd

Recently I've been going out with this guy that smells so wonderfully masculine. I had forgotten how many of the little things that I love that I had sacrificed for the CD. Guys there is nothing nicer than the smell of cologne on a man. OMG, it drives me insane. I just want to lean close to him and sniff him. He's sooooooo sniffable!

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Wsprs, It really should not come to a surprise to you that only a few (or just you) would provide a response of experiences as to the one you have had to endure. Most GG's would probably have given up any desire to have anything to do with a man that had desires to wear any article of female attire. Being burned like that would not have anyone blaming them and most likely the GG would leave the site to never return or would take a lot of time to heal before even thinking of trying that again.

I have read your posts of the experience you had..and you did sacrifice alot for someone who seemed to be self-centered. You even shared some tone of never even wanting to try that again..so I even thought you had left the site. Either I have overlooked your posts or you spent time in other sections.

I don't know if you will have at least one GG who will give you their experience, etc, but at least you know that most would say it was very wrong for someone to put boundaries and limitations on you, that they themselves would not recipricate..and then add the mother/ex sitiuation.

So that brings me to the 2nd quote above..Rogina does draw a good point of how you used a broad brush... and I too would hope you find that 'real man'.. Just remember what someone once posted, it wasn't the dressing that made your ex an a$$, he was already one..

Maybe a little bit of a different situation than most above. I started late in life and my dressing developed with my wife at my side. So there never was a point I had to tell her and her comfort had to catch up with mine. I took it all at a pace that she was comfortable with and didn't push it. My wife being the person she is, would initially let me know what made her uncomfortable instead of internalizing anything. As time went on, these barriers went down.

But just as important as not pushing her was keeping the rest of our life the same. There is more to life than CDing especially when you have a partner to consider. And if the CDing takes time from those things, it is a big negative impact. What has greatly helped is that now that we are both okay with me being out and about, it is much easy to blend all activities.

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWInd

Looking back on the situation, I realize that there was no interest, care or love in me as a person. It was all about what needs of his I could fill. What he meant when he said we could compromise was that I would be the one expected to do all the changing and compromising. The person he presented himself to be in the beginning, that I fell in love with, did not exist.

Guys, CD's or otherwise, always just be honest and yourself with women up front. Don't put on this facade and act like someone you are not. If you are you from the beginning then she gets to know the real you from the start. It's not fair to anyone to mislead them to fall for someone that really don't exist. Be real and be honest b/c if you aren't it does come back to hurt YOU in the long run too.

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I couldn't agree more with that!

My lovely SO knew about my crossdressing within minutes after we met. Two months later, we went to singles Halloween dances as two women. I had so much fun being a girl that I failed to deal with her anxieties. I think she's gorgeous but she felt I was prettier than she was. And her own fears about being intimate with a woman caused a LOT of anxiety.

We are slowly working through the issues. Not always easy, not always fun, but always worth it.

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWInd

Recently I've been going out with this guy that smells so wonderfully masculine. I had forgotten how many of the little things that I love that I had sacrificed for the CD. Guys there is nothing nicer than the smell of cologne on a man. OMG, it drives me insane. I just want to lean close to him and sniff him. He's sooooooo sniffable!

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Originally Posted by rogina garter

I think you are painting us with way too broad of a brush.Everyone here is different.If you want to "smell masculinity" give many of us a sniff BEFORE WE CLEAN UP AND PUT OUR DRESS ON! Hope you find happiness with your version of "a real man".

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Given that wsprs has not "painted" anything, but has asked a question and shared experiences that are evidently very personal, I cannot understand this accusation at all.

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Originally Posted by Marissa

Rogina does draw a good point of how you used a broad brush... I too would hope you find that 'real man'..

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I can't see how Rogina and Marissa conclude that Wsprs is looking for a "real man" (their words, not Wsprs') from the fact that she shared what effect smelling cologne on a man has on her.

She has laid out quite explicitly just how far she was willing to go to accomodate her ex and she went way beyond her comfort zone

The closest that Wsprs got to "painting" anything was to comment on the experience of another poster in this thread who talked of getting caught up in the pink fog. If commenting on what another person has said is painting a whole group of people with a broad brush, then put me down as an artist.

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Originally Posted by rogina garter

I think you are painting us with way too broad of a brush.Everyone here is different.If you want to "smell masculinity" give many of us a sniff BEFORE WE CLEAN UP AND PUT OUR DRESS ON ! Hope you find happiness with your version of "a real man".

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Let me clarify something. He wore only perfume every day we were going out somewhere. It had nothing to do with if he was dressing in femme or not. Maybe the term "real man" was the wrong use of words as it makes CD's sound like they are less than. Sorry.

Rebecca,

I've done nothing to touch my photo up. It's just a 35 mm shot that I did myself. Again, you are too kind.

Marissa,

This expierence has made me very skittish of dating at all ever again as especially CD's. I've said this before, bitten by one dog afraid of them all. It is true that if you took the CD'ing out of it he's still a nasty person who is self-absorbed. Probably the reason he's divorced, the truth be told and probably the reason that his ex wife hates him. It is but by the grace of God that I don't hate him. The only reason I don't is b/c I'm not giving him that much control over my life and it only hurts me. It has been a huge battle to keep that in check though.

Sue,

I knew from the get go he was a CD. He never kept that from me. However, never having any experience with this and being quite shy, and extremely southern, it was taking me a long time to let down barriers and feel comfortable with participation. I told him from the beginning that it takes me a long time to warm up to people. His accusation was that b/c I wasn't a "fully developed" participant after 18 months, I never would be so he had to find someone that was. Again, his version of what he called love had nothing to with ME and everything to do with what he wanted me to be for HIM. I only wanted time to grow into being comfortable with what he wanted. I explained to him many times that I had been doing this for a few months while he had been who he is a life time but he is very closed minded and cannot see anything but his own way.

I also could not abide the fact that he's into porn. He told me that it wasn't porn and he didn't do porn and then turned around and said that ALL men are into porn. SO, do you see the inconsistancies in the stories he gave me here? Porn is very damaging to the individual and a relationship for various reasons. It desensitizes the individual and reduces what he views sex to a fantasy and renders him incabable of having a loving intimate relationship. It makes his partner feel insecure and as if she is nothing but an object. The feeling of "making love" goes out the window and the woman feels that she is nothing more than the recepticle he uses to play the porn scenes in his head while he's with her.

Elsa,

I'm secure enough in who I am that it never bothered me that he might be prettier than me dressed. I would have been happy for him whether he was or not b/c he was happy dressing. Being with a CD never threatened my sexuality or sexual preference. Yes, I had the normal questions in the beginning but I knew that I am strickly heterosexual and that HIS CD'ing did not change who I am. I got past all that pretty quickly.

Rianna,

Thank for your words of support. Cologne on a man does have a wonderful affect on me and I really did miss that one little thing. However, I never meant to demean anyone here and I try to keep my negativity and cynicism from bleeding over onto CD's as a whole. If any of you felt I've done that I apologize. Poor Brandi, has born the brunt of my frustration so many times I'm surprised she's still talking to me.

I haven't even mentioned all the accusations I got from him about how I never wanted to come to his home. Every time I would drive the 35 miles to his house his ex wife would call up and throw a fit and he would expect me to leave. This happened several times and so I never felt comfortable in his home. It seemed to me that he didn't have the backbone to set the boundaries that it was HIS home and she moved out of it. He could never take me around his family b/c the ex was invited to all holidays and family functions and they made it clear they wanted nothing to do with me. So either he had to choose not to go around them for family gatherings and his ex and be with me or go and leave me behind. He also was not willing to set boundaries with his ex about last minute schedule changes. She would call up minutes before he was to leave to come to my house for the weekand tell him she had plans or had to work and want him to drop what he was doing to keep their son. Now, much of this was his fault for not telling her and sticking to this, that she needed to find her own backup plan for a sitter and let him know well in advance that her schedule had changed. His excuse for not doing that is that his ex would take his little boy to his mother and that his mother was not a good influence on his son yet, any time HE needed to do something he took him straight to his mother. There were so many double standards in this whole thing that I could write a book.

One weekend that I recall in particular was that he drove the 35 miles to my house on Friday evening b/c we had an appointment. Then drove back to his nieces birthday party after and drove back to my house after her party. Of course I couldn't go with him. Then the next morning he got up and drove back to his father's house and helped him change out the plumbing under his house all day. Why this plumbing couldn't have been done on a weekend that he had his son was a mystery to me. My ex said that "you don't understand my dad, when he wants something done he want's it now." And I was thinking you are 50 years old and you cannot set boundaries? It was always me that came last, always my time that got cut. I came behind his work, his son, his ex wife and his mother/father. Then he would turn around and blame me for having to spend money he didn't have on gas and I'm thinking but you can make all these trips back and forth to keep your family happy and it's my fault you're wasting gas? You throw me out of your home when I get there to accommodate the ex and you accuse me of not wanting to come there?

My biggest regret in this is that I set boundaries with my family and I made sure that when he was scheduled to be with me that unless it was an urgent thing I let nothing interfere with the time we were to spend together. I won't do that again. From now on I'll put my family and everyone else first and give what time I have left over to dating and if that is unacceptable then that's too bad. My grandson won't be 22 months old forever and I want all the time I can get with him NOW!

Once again, I wrote a book. Sorry gang.

You didn't play well together,and perhaps he NEVER WILL WITH ANYONE! You are single and free to date anyone that you fancy. I do think his CDing was only a part of the problem in the relationship.There are plenty of fish in the sea...enjoy your fishing.

The only problem with most fish is that all they're good for is throwing back. :)

What if she refused to participate at all but did not hold you back or expect you to stop as long as you didn't include her? Would the fact that she loved you and accepted you be enough or do you feel you have to find that person who can fill all of your needs as a CD to be content?

My wife refuses to participate for the most part, although we've shopped together and she's done my makeup before I went out. I've started to go to support meetings, shopped, and been to a couple clubs. She's somewhat ok with that. If she accepted me, I would still want to have others (like all my new girlfirends I've met!) but our life together would be so much better than it is now. We still love each other, but this is a huge gulf in our lives unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by Rianna Humble

Given that wsprs has not "painted" anything, but has asked a question and shared experiences that are evidently very personal, I cannot understand this accusation at all.

I can't see how Rogina and Marissa conclude that Wsprs is looking for a "real man" (their words, not Wsprs') from the fact that she shared what effect smelling cologne on a man has on her.

She has laid out quite explicitly just how far she was willing to go to accomodate her ex and she went way beyond her comfort zone

The closest that Wsprs got to "painting" anything was to comment on the experience of another poster in this thread who talked of getting caught up in the pink fog. If commenting on what another person has said is painting a whole group of people with a broad brush, then put me down as an artist.

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"Accusations"...hmmm guess somewhere in my posting I should have said IMHO..so you would not view it as accusing.. I see her and your postings as opinions or experiences...unless you directly state it as "I accuse you of.."

And my 'opinion' is based on a few PMs and threads that I have read on Wsprs experiences..and even now she provides an apology for the way it was said in the 'paintbrush' comment..and hesitance in being involved with a cd again

And I don't blame her after going through all that..anything of this nature will leave scars.

Even though its not about cding, I can pretty much relate to her as I even think of my last marriage..including the placing of boundaries of family just to appease him. I did that with my own daughters and I regret that. So yes, when you realize that you are giving more than the other and not getting anything in return for those efforts/sacrifices, its time to evaluate and make a decision. That is what I did..and yes, scars remain..but time will heal those and maybe trust will return.

Wsprs, Thank you for sharing all that you have gone through.. maybe some who are dealing with "agreed" boundaries will understand how fortunate that can be.

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Originally Posted by WsprsOnTheWInd

The only problem with most fish is that all they're good for is throwing back. :)

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Perhaps you need a guidebook for sorting them out BEFORE you get so involved.Do you want to date another dresser? Is that why you are here? Are you accepting? I don't see it that way. So,why would you be here? Please tell.