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My last positions were 'at will - no cause'. Which means you serve at the pleasure of the boss. One day, you whistle the wrong way and you're out the next. So now being involuntary retired I get dress when everyone else is at work and I'm in the home office....
Renne.....
In situations where you're work contract is "at will" I'm pretty sure this is a terrible idea. Even though there are certain transgender rights in my state, I'm fuzzy on if this would translate to someone still identifying as male.
I made a horrible mistake by showing up to a Halloween party last year that I thought would be a more intimate setting among trusting friends. I dressed a little too well (so much that my best friend didn't recognize me from two feet away)
That was when I noticed about a handful of people from work. One of them took a number of photos and showed them to everyone the next day.
I was pretty much outed at work from my own stupidity of going too far to have a good time. No one would stand anywhere near me for the next week. My hours were cut in half and the ones that remained were close at night, then open the next morning where I only had less than five hours before shifts. I knew what was happening, but ended up getting fired for a first offense of being ten minutes late one morning.
As a minimum wage job I wasn't destroyed, but as a newer college grad who is having a lot of trouble finding a career, I'm really scared that this will affect me with references and such. I've already been turned away for multiple part time jobs. I'm really in a fix right now and getting pretty stressed.
-m
No, No, No, No, NO!
I don't know about the US, but here in the Uk if one even dared suggest they were a CD to an employer they'd be "out on their ear"' before they could say 'pantihose'. The average employer does not understand such things. You would be declared a 'poof' and (hey) we don't want such people working here. We can find a straight person to do that job.
Sad, Yes, but that's how it goes. So-called 'normal' people do not understand us. They see any man wishing to wear a skirt as an abhoration. So, NO. don't go there. If you want to keep your job, stay in the closet.
One day it may change. But until that day arrives, don't push the boat out. You will only regret it.
Sorry Kathy but I disagree. My SO came out at work as a cder, at the time she was in denial about actually being TS, she left that job as they were offering redundancy and she wanted a change.
We was chatting about where I worked at the time at a college for young people with autism and I said that they were recruiting, she asked me to ask the boss lady if it would be worth Nigella applying. I spoke to her and the reply I got was " I don't care what anyone wears so long as they can do the job. Nigella applied and got the job as Nigella and she has been there 5 years now. She came out there as TS and they have been really helpful, so not every employer in the UK is the same.
Klaire, what type of work environment is it and what is the average age of your co-workers? Do you deal with the public? Do you work with a mix of men and women or is it predominately men? Do you have a "creatives" type of job such as advertising or the music industry, or is it a more conservative area such as pharmaceuticals or engine building or something? :p
Also, what is the tolerance level of alternative gender and sexuality in your area? Do you live in a major city or a small town? How do the people you know (neighbors, family, etc) feel about CDing in general?
I think there are many factors that might influence the decision to come out at work. For example, an ad agency in San Francisco or a fashion house in London might be more open to it than a mechanic's garage in a small town somewhere.
It's a funny thing, but the Ministry of Education would probably not be impressed. They can't even deal with bullying in schools.
So, no.
Absolutely not. It's none of their business. While Canadians are a bit more liberal than other countries, it isn't worth the risk IMHO. Sure, we have antidiscrimination laws in place here, but it is fairly easy to work around them by compiling a file of alleged wrongdoing relating to on-the-job performance.
I've always considered telling my current employer, but i wasnt sure how'd they'd react.
Possibly tell a future employer, especially if i found a job in San Francisco itself.
Interesting question from the original poster. After reading through the comments, I thin the only bit I can add is this:
I would not let a new employer know about my crossdressing but I would not be afraid if they found out. I am who I am and, if I was hired, it is because I can deliver what they need. Now, if they were to find out I would not be worried about it. I am who I am and if they liked me before they found out, as far as work is concerned, they should continue.
Now, in the real world, I don't think that last sentence is true. People in the real world have all kinds of prejudices.
I would leave crossdressing out of my work space because it does not add/contribute anything to the work.
I work in a small firm of of 20ish people (but only 14 of them are in my office). We dealing with part of the UK Motor Insurance industry. My work is telephone based so only those I work with generally see me. Occasionally I attend court cases I am directly involved in - these are always in male business dress but I often travel in my male/female mix and eat in the hotels in the same clothing mix. So there is no "public" face to us, it is all verbal as it where. The only public side is the occasional client visit to the office. I used to be the only male there, but now we are split pretty evenly between men and women. Age range is also mixed from mid 20's to mid 50'sQuote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
With regards to where I live. Average UK town and population mix. The area I live in is not the best admittedly but walk 5 mins down the road and it is a lot better. My street is not the sort of place you would go for a walk down the street dressed en femme as people like to say - if the wrong people saw you, you would get serious verbal abuse at best. Sensible covered mix does go unnoticed. I.e female jeans and trainers and anything else covered in male clothes. I posted something yesterday about my using a woman's shoulder bag for the first time and mentioned about the area I live in then.
Not many people know what I do but this year I am resolved to tell a select few as I need to broach the issue with my daughter this year really as well and she will eventually tell our closest friends and family - so I will get there first to protect both her and me. My wife is FULLY aware of everything I do and have female wise. I hide nothing from her and live within rules she sets in the house.
With my considering my work position and how my dressing may or may not affect it, I am also looking at the future and what else it could affect - like friends/family etc. What I want from this is shifting quite a lot from 5 years ago for example, and I have a choice of moving with the shift and being able to manage it or try and repress it and slip into depression. I am trying to do the former as I think it is the right move.
Hi, Sandra.
I appreciate your comments. And I am glad that Nigella has found her rightful place in society. But I was thinking of the 'average' employer in a typical industrial or commercial environment. I very much doubt whether Nigel (Nigella), Stephen (Stephanie) or Tony (Toni) would be welcomed as a regular member of any team. "He's a weirdo! He's gonna upset everybody! Get rid of him. We don't need that sort of person here. God! He's wearing a skirt and heels! Can you imagine what he's going to do to our existing staff?" No, men are destined to be men, and women are women. And ne'er the twain shall meet. We can't win. We are not understood. We are out on a limb, and the average person on the street even in 2012 (let alone an employer) cannot accept anyone who is 'different'.
Thankfully I am now retired, so the problem does not arise in my case. But I would have loved to walk into my office in a pencil skirt and be accepted.
I dress for fun, and to relax. These two things are directly at odds with going to work, so no, I would never tell, nor do it.
Nope.
My parents are another story.
S**t is going to hit the fan in a couple of days, and I will let y'all know how it goes.
To make a long story short: they gave me the Beatles 12disc box set,and my step mom want copies. I sent a couple of CDs, and slipped in one of the more tame photos (me at Target) inside the case. When my folks hear the song Get Back, they'll figure it out. There is no turning back now.
That is one of the things... When I say limited I mean limited. I do not wear skirts or dresses ever. They are not something I have the need or desire for. That too me is a step too far. I wear female clothes that (with exception of underwear) are what I would wear normally. Trousers, t-shirts, jumpers, shoes etc - just female versions. So for me the idea is simply to wear female versions of what I would normally wear any other day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy_G
There is a difference in my eyes. I would never think or dream of turning up in full female clothes and I never wear wigs/make-up again that is a step beyond what I actually want out of my dressing.
K
My wife has zero tolerance. She would remove cross dressing from every neuron of my brain if she could. Therefore, work is a moot point.
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However, if my wife and I were to go our separate ways (I get kicked to the curb) and my cross dressing were to blossom again, I think it would be publicly tolerated if I eased them into it gradually and dressed tastefully and professionally.
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I am in a 20,000 employee company and have no need to meet the public. There might well be much talking behind my back; however, I envision my coworkers treating me with kindness and respect.
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Best wishes,
Helen
Based on what you describe, I would come out to select friends and your daughter first. If the attitude about the CDing is conservative in your community, you can well expect that some of the people you work with (perhaps even your employer) will also share some of these attitudes. If it is a small firm, chances are they do not have an HR (Human Resources) department with established policies regarding transgendered individuals? If this is the case, your coming out may well leave you out of a job. It may not, but how much are you willing to risk this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaire Larnia
If coming out at work is important to you, I'd begin doing some research and looking for employment in larger companies who are known to have equal opportunity policies regarding transgenders. But a word of caution ... some companies are equipped to handle employees who are transitioning, but it is more difficult for people who present a mixed gender or who switch back and forth, so it may be worth your while to talk to an attorney in your area who is familiar with UK labor laws and practices.
Once upon a time, I exercised poor judgment and confided in my only co-worker that I dressed femme on occasion. She's gay and quite open, so I thought it'd be safe ... but honestly, I suspect she complained to our employer.
I too work in an at-will profession.
I was let go very soon after my confession; my co-worker treated me differently beginning the moment after my confession to her. I suspect, but there's nothing I could do.
Based on that, I wouldn't suggest outing yourself at work.
Now, to address the issue of femme clothing ... people will notice. I wear femme jeans most of the time, and I am quite certain folks notice, but they don't say anything. A time or two, I've forgotten to remove my nail polish, and it's been noticed and commented on ... no ill consequences, though.
I came out at work about a year ago and my on-the-job-transition was not too bad. I've had the same job for many years and have had the same work friends also for many years. Many of those work friends knew I was TG and encouraged me to come out at work b/c they knew I really wanted to. I was really nervous at first but my friends were great and huddled around me until I got my confidence in the work place. Management was supportive too. I got a letter from my doctor and from a psychologist I had seen for 7 years confirming I was TG so all my legal bases were covered. I know for a fact that some at my work still gossip and mock me behind my back but mostly it has been a positive experience for me. I always make sure my attire is appropriate for the work place and I use a family/disabled bathroom which seems to help show others I am being respectful.
I feel very lucky to have such a positive experience and know others aren't so lucky. I am much happier in my life and have no regrets for coming out at work. Now, my family situation is completely different and not so positive....but that is for a different thread.
Michelle
So much of it depends on the individuals in charge. Some will be okay with their own gender, and others won't. If they aren't, they will feel lots of anxiety about what you are doing because of their own conflicts. This can really determine how they react, and it can be very unpredictable.
You can never tell how someone is going to act when their own sense of identity is threatened. And I've noticed that people who tend to act out their psychological conflicts on others find their way into authority more often than not.
Crossdressing? No. If you are transitioning, that's a different story... or at least it is right now. Hopefully someday it won't matter.
I can think of one exception to this. Back in the 1960s there was a farming town of 2000 people or so near the place where I was growing up. There was a man there who (gasp!) wore dresses. He was the first TG person I had ever knowingly encountered. His dressing was well known and the local thrift shop would even set aside large-size dresses for him when they came in. You'd think that in a conservative 1960s rural community that a CDer would catch a lot of heat, but this one didn't. The reason was that he was the best d**n Diesel mechanic for over 100 miles and nobody was going to be responsible for losing his expertise!Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Funny how reasonable people can be if it is in their self-interest!
OTOH, I now live in a state where TG rights are fairly well protected, but I would never come out to my employer. It would just be a complication that I don't need.
My Immediate bosses and most colleagues know,more by accident than design,6 years it's been out,but there has been absolutely no Issues and still I'm here,probably because I don't shove it in their faces,think pitching up dressed would be a whole different ball game,don't think customers would be too pleased either.but I wouldn't think my employer (in UK) would have a leg to stand on if they tried to boot me out because I dressed away from work
Sophie
So the moral of the story is, if you're indispensable you can do what you want? I buy that. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eryn
Thanks for the replies. I have no real intention of letting anyone else where I work know what I do bar the one person who I have told (and in the last year I am 100% she has not told anyone or I suspect I may have spotted adverse reactions from some people).
I was more thinking if I was to change job down the line at some point would it be an option. I.e fresh start, use it as a chance to me more open and who I want to be. I fully understand the risks and at this point in time would not take them at all. I pretty much expected the replies I got on the whole as I am not transitioning or have any intention of going down that route I thought it would be a bad idea - and on the whole it seems most would agree.
Sometimes you need to look in the face of defeat in order to make sure you do not actually loose something.
K
I agree that if it's just crossdressing, keep it to yourself and underdress. However, if you plan to transition and your papers still I.d. you as male, then you need to talk to H.R. and be honest.
I find that if you keep the cding at work to a tasteful amount and well within company dress guidelines, you should be fine. Of course here in cali, we do have better laws protecting transgenders than some places, so be careful and cautious. If you're not sure, don't do it.
Also keep in mind that corporate life discourages individuality, hence professional attire. Go to any fast food place and the G.G.s will be wearing essentially the same kind of shirts and tees as the guys. Same thing at walmart. They want you thinking of the company and not yourself, hence where uniforms come in. The office attire imo, is a uniform, albeit more diverse in nature. Wear the uniform, earn the paycheck, then go home and wear whatever you want. I'd love to be able to wear a blouse and skirt to work, but people's attitudes have not advanced so far as to be universally ok with it.
I myself am TS, but if I was asked to dress a certain way (outside the realm of sexual mind you) to earn my pay, then I would have to grin and bear it, then go home and go back to being Jessica. Now once my papers say I'm female, then they wouldn't care and expect me to dress female. Which I'd be happy to oblige.