Maybe you’re wrong, and they’re right

What if I'm wrong.....well, I'm waiting for a better answer. Most all other theories that people have suggested are based on one aspect of my behavior, such as the most often used suggestion that I dress like a pretty girl, so that must mean I want to attract men to have sex with them. And if you only look at that one thought and disregard everything else, I can understand why someone might think that. Sadly, most people are stupid, and want simple answers to complicated questions. It's one reason why we have the rascals in public office that we do.

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Originally Posted by Beverley Sims

I am wondering if your tolerance level towards others is too high. Meaning that they say something and you believe otherwise you do not bend their way at all.

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I could say the same thing about others. I bend pretty well…:straightface:

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Originally Posted by suzy1

A bit of a sad post Freddy. I wish I could help cheer you up.

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You DO cheer me up – I wish you were around more often! However, it’s been “open” season on Freddy for the past week or more (have you noticed?), so that may explain my state of mind. Just today I got a PM from an individual who insists I have too much time on my hands! Why? Is it because I write more than one sentence at a time? Sometimes I feel like I’m being stoned (in the traditional meaning of that word, I mean), and it can get tiring. Maybe my destiny is to become a martyr for the cause. Sorry – that’s a bit off topic…
:sad:

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Originally Posted by busker

I often get the feeling reading your posts that you want some sort of public approval for a private endeavor. (ever think of exposing yourself via your art? e.g. painting men in mixed attire) So I guess to repeat my question, what is so important about making this public? If you have not been truthful with yourself, then you have do that first. Why to you want to connect this activity with the outside world? Would this really make your life better?

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I make this public because it seems to relate to other, similar posts about confused mental states, i.e. how one FEELS at any given time during one’s crossdressing “career.” If everyone else is doing it, I might as well join in and reap the benefits. Most of the time (99%+) I feel fine about my crossdressing, but I also have those fleeting moments of doubt that nearly everyone experiences. I’m not talking about connecting this activity (CD’ing) with the outside world, I’m talking about giving up on it, forgetting about gender-queerness, and becoming more openly normal (in a conformist sense). In other words, literally stopping the “music,” stepping off the crossdressing merry-go-round, and becoming a manifestation of the possible, rather than the impossible…

BTW, I do reveal my “self” in my artwork, and I hope that doesn’t sound too cute. In my paintings the boys look like girls, the girls look like boys, and they frolic together in an idyllic, imaginary landscape of beauty. When someone questions what it’s all about, I tell them I’m exercising my artistic license, creating the world that I want to see. Exposing myself via art this way is fun, and, since art is just as non-understandable as crossdressing, no one is the wiser. Actually, I feel I get plenty of "public" approval for my private endeavor on this site...
:battingeyelashes:

Was that TOO revealing? :idontknow:

I've come to the conclusion that someone crossdressing, at least part-time, should be seen as more of an embarrassing hobby, or maybe more like watching porn, than like some huge horrible perversion. I think they do it well in Thailand, where kathoey (ladyboys) are accepted, even if they're often limited in their opportunities, but being that way is considered to be something that someone can't help. So like, they're families will be disappointed, but it's still better than the Christian solution of pretending the problem doesn't exist, and threatening disowning and hellfire when it does manifest. Man, when looked at as an explanation of the meaning of life, Christianity sucks balls. I guess Islam is still worse though, but I kind of like some of the philosophy of Hinduism and Buddhism.

In my religion, the meaning of life is to construct small sculptures of caramelized sugar to pay tribute to the great god of candy. It's pretty nifty. :]

Sounds like the difficulty is being in the closet full time? If you are staying home, dressed, afraid to go out in public, you will become bored and depressed. Relationships in the real world are essential to happiness. So the choices are simple; Go back and forth from male/female mode or leave the closet to show your town what you've been up to. I won't say staying home is wrong, but that it's unhealthy.

We all have a part of us that determines what is right and wrong. Some people have a personality disorder that allows them to ignore it. These people usually become criminals.

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Originally Posted by Valerie Nova

but it's still better than the Christian solution of pretending the problem doesn't exist, and threatening disowning and hellfire when it does manifest. Man, when looked at as an explanation of the meaning of life, Christianity sucks balls. I guess Islam is still worse though, but I kind of like some of the philosophy of Hinduism and Buddhism.

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Try atheism, then you have no problems with CDing:straightface:

Is it really necessary to bring religion into this? Christianity has no official position on this or other social issues. Some churches and denominations might, but the Church, Christianity in general, doesn't. I imagine it is the same way with the other religions as well. We shouldn't insult an entire religion based on a few (or even most) of its members, or use stereotypes to justify our aversion to religion.

back on subject. Religion does not belong here. (I need a yellow card icon)

Freddy they're not right. For a CD/TS/TG this is our own reality and it is right for us. It only seems wrong to them because they have not experienced what we do. They need to be educated that there is more to gender than they realize. I refuse to beat myself over the head over this, it's not worth it. I accept that some can't accept other views than what they believe to be true.

Well I can understand how being a crossdresser can affect relationships and end up in isolation. I suppose that is why I am very closeted. I live in two worlds now and wish it weren't so but I like my world when I am out of gurl mode. For me dressing makes me feel very sexy and it doesn't define my life but enhances it. I guess that is my fear of coming out to my so. I wouldn't want it to define me and I fear it would to her. So I understand the conflict and at times think why do I risk harming my personal relationships? At times I think I may come out and drop hints but still stay closeted. For each of us it is different but for me I love my gurl time but it is just a part of me, doesn't define me. Many things do. But I probably won't stop, when Trish looks back at me in the mirror...well you know what that feels like.

Its human nature to doubt. I have many attributes that diminish my ability to present effectively and persuasively as a female. And I face social and cultural barriers that prevent me from living full time as a woman. Of course, I can acknowledge that these aspects of live would be easier if I were different.

But the word "wrong" is where I run into a different kind of barrier. If I were performing a task, say adding a column of numbers, and I made an arithmetic error...then I can say, I was wrong, and correct the mistake. If I make a judgment about another person, and subsequent experience proves me wrong, I can acknowledge the mistake and accept a different view of that person.

But, while I've been wrong about people, made lots of technical and judgement errors in may life, I am not mistaken about who I am. I know because I have spent a good deal of my life judging myself in accordance with what I thought was "right" and learned that society was wrong. I didnt chooose to be transgendered. I didn't choose to identify as female. I even tried to ignore, repress and deny this essentail truth about myself. So, someone may tell me I am wrong, or that what I do is wrong, but my experience tells me otherwise.

Odd how religion wended its way into a thread with the word “wrong” in the title, eh? Who would'a thunk it? :doh:

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Originally Posted by Marleena

Freddy they're not right. For a CD/TS/TG this is our own reality and it is right for us. It only seems wrong to them because they have not experienced what we do. They need to be educated that there is more to gender than they realize. I refuse to beat myself over the head over this, it's not worth it. I accept that some can't accept other views than what they believe to be true.

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I feel surrounded by people who cannot look beyond their own gender boundaries, kind of like I’m sitting in a Marie’s Bath, and I’m Marie. So pervasive is this ambient temperature that I can feel it, deep in my closet, and I am being summoned or beckoned, to give up what others call nonsense but I call necessity. It chills me to the bone and dulls the senses, but I persevere. I’m exaggerating this a little for the sake of argument, but you cannot deny that the general direction of the societal glacier is away from experimentation and towards complacency. I deal with these doubts by looking in the mirror and verifying the truth of my desired existence. That sounds a bit ponderous, I’m sure, so forgive me...
:o

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Originally Posted by trishwannabcd

Well I can understand how being a crossdresser can affect relationships and end up in isolation. I suppose that is why I am very closeted.

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Lack of success with relationships (I can certainly relate) creates an opportunity for crossdressing without constraint – you can look at it that way. I think CD’ing is a precious gift to oneself...

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

But the word "wrong" is where I run into a different kind of barrier. If I were performing a task, say adding a column of numbers, and I made an arithmetic error...then I can say, I was wrong, and correct the mistake. If I make a judgment about another person, and subsequent experience proves me wrong, I can acknowledge the mistake and accept a different view of that person.

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If I was standing in front of someone, crossdressed as I prefer to be, would someone accept this “view” of me, knowing full well that I could just as easily dress according to my birth gender? It takes some compassion to see past prejudice, and few have this kind of compassion. Of course, we all know what we’re doing, and, to a certain degree, we know WHY we’re doing it, but to others our way of doing things is just plain wrong – I can honestly say that I WANT to be right, according to my own precepts, but it can get exhausting at times trying to constantly swim upstream...
:sigh:

If I was standing in front of someone, crossdressed as I prefer to be, would someone accept this “view” of me, knowing full well that I could just as easily dress according to my birth gender? It takes some compassion to see past prejudice, and few have this kind of compassion. Of course, we all know what we’re doing, and, to a certain degree, we know WHY we’re doing it, but to others our way of doing things is just plain wrong – I can honestly say that I WANT to be right, according to my own precepts, but it can get exhausting at times trying to constantly swim upstream...
:sigh:[/QUOTE]

I can't control what people think. If someone believes adamantly that I am wrong, but can't offer any objective proof or persuasive reasoning, then why should I let them dictate the conditions of my life. I doubt any such person is going to present any new evidence. So let the think what they want.

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Originally Posted by Frédérique

If I was standing in front of someone, crossdressed as I prefer to be, would someone accept this “view” of me, knowing full well that I could just as easily dress according to my birth gender? It takes some compassion to see past prejudice, and few have this kind of compassion. Of course, we all know what we’re doing, and, to a certain degree, we know WHY we’re doing it, but to others our way of doing things is just plain wrong – I can honestly say that I WANT to be right, according to my own precepts, but it can get exhausting at times trying to constantly swim upstream...
:sigh:

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Frederique...as we all know, who you are is not defined by how you dress. In the eyes of any given beholder, appearing to them as a male dressed in female attire will be a deviation from expectation. To them, your appearance as a female is an illusory apparition; a deception. There will be a moment of re-orientation of expectation. The question, therefore, would be; Can you, crossdressed as you prefer to be, harbor understanding and 'acceptance' of the beholder's reticent acceptance of you as you are? Remember, you should always give people a chance. They may surprise you.
On the notion that you are swimming upstream in some endeavor do right by your own precepts...I ask 'why?'. It is self-tiring, and with only your own precepts to go by, in the end you will realize that you were only attempting to swim backwards in an upstream current. Quod Erat Demonstrandum; you were doing right by you, all along.
You are one of the more well spoken and introspective members of this forum, Frederique, as many here would agree. As such; in the category of 'Is This Right?', only you can answer that. Only you have that right and privelege, and I suspect the smile that crosses your features when you deliver that answer unto yourself upon asking would light a room quite nicely.

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Originally Posted by Frédérique

[COLOR="black"]Do you ever have doubts about what you’re doing? Do you ever think, if only for a moment, that your situation is patently impossible, and maybe, just maybe, you’re WRONG, and you should start doing things right? I suppose I could be wrong, you know – I’ve been wrong before...
:doh:

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Crossdressing is a feeling as much as it is something one does. How can your feelings be 'right' or 'wrong'. They simply are what they are, and you have them.

What one chooses to do with those feelings might be right or wrong, and how one chooses to deal with this can most certainly be right or wrong.

In general, though, about things that don't conform, 'they' are wrong an awful lot, at least in my experience. 'They' can go pound sand.

To answer your very first question though - absolutely, yes I have doubts all the time and have for years. I've felt this was a shameful secret, and I've hidden it. Being able to talk about it on this forum is a big step for me. I think my situation *is* patently impossible. However, it is not really the only situation I face that is patently impossible. It just seems to be the only one I can't admit "yeah, this is crazy - do something else."

Once upon a time, a long time ago, an educated young man with aspirations and goals and taught to love everyone, was trained to be a killer. Now to ward off the ghosts of those who are not here by my hand I seek serenity, in part, by emulating the women who stayed at home. Was I wrong? Or, who was wrong? Or, who is wrong? Me? Now? Or then?

Right now I'll take the pretty red and white sundress over the olive drab fatigues.

Many people do many wrong things every day, such as armed robbery or child molestation. By any criteria, there are wrong acts, and I wonder if actual criminals ever ponder the wrongness of their acts. I would venture to say not.
If you think about it, there is a difference between 'wrong' and 'not a good idea,' or perhaps 'foolish.' Sometimes my crossdressing has made aspects of life more complicated, but that is because of other people's opinions. That does not make them right, or me wrong, but perhaps dressing as I wish in some situations is not a good idea.
I can live with that.

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Originally Posted by April_Ligeia

Many people do many wrong things every day, such as armed robbery or child molestation. By any criteria, there are wrong acts, and I wonder if actual criminals ever ponder the wrongness of their acts. I would venture to say not.
If you think about it, there is a difference between 'wrong' and 'not a good idea,' or perhaps 'foolish.' Sometimes my crossdressing has made aspects of life more complicated, but that is because of other people's opinions. That does not make them right, or me wrong, but perhaps dressing as I wish in some situations is not a good idea.
I can live with that.

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The perceptions and interpretations of both concept and reality of what is 'good' is blurred/twisted/warped/distorted by those who commit 'evil' acts. Every being in existence knows, on some level; the difference between 'right' and 'wrong'.
The distinguishing variable here, is motive. Reason, if you will. NO-ONE acts in a way EVER, to gain the short-end of the proverbial stick. EVER.
Those who kill for pleasure, those who hurt others for nothing more than the thrill...they are not seeing their acts as evil, only self-serving. It feels good, in other words. They do not exist in a dank cave or evil dungeon/laboratory, rubbing their hands together and say to themselves "What villainous atrocities can I commit today, muwahahahahaaaaa". They are sick, and act on self-serving impulse, knowing on some level, but disregarding the concept of right and wrong.
On the other hand; those who kill for purpose...those trained to "reduce" targets on a battlefield...are fulfilling what they believe to be a higher calling. Allow me to state for the record that I myself do not condone the taking of life. I do, however see it as an unfortunate necessity in some very unfortunate situations. Is Stephanie47 an 'evil' person? No. Was she 'wrong', then? Now? No and No.
And yet she will be haunted by her actions to her own ending days. Is there atonement for her, this person who was willing to act as she did and live with the moral and ethical consequences, so the rest of us could continue as we have, and as we are? YES!
There is a difference between a soldier and a murderer. Stephanie, I salute thee, and may you lay your demons to rest.

Excellent point, Nikki. Allow me to clarify that I was answering the OP, and my response was a nonsequitor to Stephanie47s post. I was talking about criminals, not soldiers. Stephanie, I also wish you peace and all the best in life.

The only standard of right and wrong I see as objective is "was someone materially or emotional harmed" (offended doesn't count) After that right and wrong are pretty useless concepts. Concepts like "who I am" and "what I choose to do" have more practical value. I question whether my choice to crossdress (in the closet) is worth it and truelly necessary but absolute right and wrong don't apply. In the end I cannot escape it so i'm ok with it and enjoy it when I can.

On a side note i hope find a way to relieve your feelings of isolation. You seem to thoughtful a person to be miserably alone.

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Originally Posted by Frédérique

[COLOR="black"]I mean, here I am, a MtF crossdresser, obstinate to a fault, laughed at, isolated, marginalized, and lonely, bereft of any genuine connection with the outside world.

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Are you really though? Or is that self-imposition? You THINK you'll be marginalized, lonely, laughed at? How often do you go out, put yourself out there, for all an sundry to isolate, laugh, marginalise you?

I do that (put myself out there) all the time. And you know what? I never feel marginalized. I never feel isolated. And I'm rarely, if ever, laughed at. I can walk down the street, see from the corner of my eye people do a double take, and yet see from no corner of my eye anyone laughing at me or anyone making me feel uncomfortable, like I don't belong, or that I fall outside of what they regard to be normality, or more to the point, what they themselves would or would not expect to see on their own day out in public.

I have often found that if anything marginalises me then that is myself. Nothing more. Do I think I am wrong in presenting myself in the way that I do? Never. Not once. And more to the point, no one, ever, in my experience, has ever exhibited to me the idea that I am wrong because of how I present myself.

I will never defend myself for crossdressing, because crossdressing isn't something that I need to defend. I accept it. I accept myself. And I'm confident. If someone has a problem with my crossdressing, then it isn't me who needs to defend myself, but them who has to defend their own attitude of having a problem with my crossdressing. They are the ones who have to defend themselves. Not me.

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Originally Posted by jenni_xx

Are you really though? Or is that self-imposition? You THINK you'll be marginalized, lonely, laughed at? How often do you go out, put yourself out there, for all an sundry to isolate, laugh, marginalise you?

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Not caring what other people think is the hardest thing to do sometimes. Even for me - and I have years of practice of not caring for other reasons.

I mostly only care what family and friends think. Everyone else? Not so much.

In my normal male drab, I am stared at CONSTANTLY - and not because I'm being admired... I don't even notice it anymore, although my wife does. (Kids are the most honest about this, btw.) Been that way my entire life - literally every single day.

For some reason, though, the idea going out crossdressed is scary to me, although perhaps I'm getting over that, because really, seriously I no longer care, or even notice, what other people think.

You are right though - caring about what other people think is 100% in your head. If you are scared about what other people will think or say, and so you isolate yourself, that really is all you. (It's different if they are actively hostile - but funny looks are surprisingly painless after a little exposure.)

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my soul would harden and become brittle, and my life expectancy would drop propitiously. Huh? It wouldn’t be GOOD, is what I’m trying to say…

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You said it very well, you have a sublime erudition in your rants. Way better than radio talk show hosts... Robert Price (talking about fundamentalism, which is relevant since they are one of the most anti-LGBT entities) says that all of the it is impossible to adopt another person's beleifs at will. That is selling out. If homosexuality was a choice, then the fundamentalist who say this should prove it, by choosing to be homosexual for a period, to show thet it is a chioce. of course they can't, it is not a f--ing choice!!! Duh. Same for whatever level of gender dysphoria we all have.

And if is it natural, it's neither good, nor bad. It just is. (now, grasshopper, try to snatch the stone from my palm...:))

Freddy, only an unthinking person will never question, never have doubts, never wonder "what if?". There is a book entitled, "the desease to please". One of the most difficult tasks all of us has as we mature into ourselves (a task some never accomplish successfully) is to move beyond our mentors to realize that they are not perfect themselves. Their flaws can be a link to our growth to maturity.

Even then we will have doubts, but then we won't be afraid to face them and assess them, fix the doubts that need fixing, and rejecting those that have no place within us.