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I think that if you have to dress like a dude, you should go all the way. My dude attire usually includes slacks, dress shirt or turtleneck and a sport coat. Sometimes a suit and tie. Even back when I worked on construction I used to enjoy putting on nice dude clothes when I got off work. I like dressing up even when I can't wear a dress.
Completely agree with you. In my opinion, I believe that cd's are (for want of a better word) using clothes, wigs, make-up, etc to externalise (project) something that resides inside ourselves. One way I look at it is that I belong slap bang in the middle. My birth gender is male, yet I don't regard myself as a man in the same sense that I believe other men do. I can't say for sure, because I can't speak for any other man, but by the same token I can't speak for women either. Hence why I position myself somewhere between the two. Not completely masculine, but not completely feminine either. But in embracing my feminine side, I dress and present myself in attire that is traditionally associated to the female gender. In essence, I'm projecting my inner self externally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marleena
As far as the general population getting confused and thus trying to rationalise their own confusion by questioning the sexual preference of a cd, I believe that's just people trying to put people into boxes in an attempt to make it easier for themselves to overcome their own confusion. If you, Marleena, are right and such people just assume that a man dresses as a woman to attract men, then it says more about their own attitude towards women (and more specifically women's fashion) than it does in regards to cd's. For such an attitude would be akin to saying that women's clothing is designed solely for the benefit of men - to make woman attractive to men. An egotistical attitude that completely ignores the fact that women do not dress solely in order to attract men. A statement that I think (hope) we would all agree on. And I believe that exactly the same can be said of cd's. In short, we dress the way we do because we like it. We don't do so in order to appeal to the conceptions of others. Just like women will, we simply dress for ourselves.
I dont think anyone is trying to get every man in the world to all of a sudden change their fashion choices towards androgyny, but the pages of this website are filled with people complaining about mens fashion.
Finding a balance for people is what the threads that you are complaining about, are about. There is no need to emasculate the Tuxedo or the everyday choices for most men.
In spite of all the same classic fashion choices that are available to men everyday of the year, the fashion industry still keeps making cool new styles every year that break the Man Laws of Fashion. That fact is what keeps me excited, not the fact that other men wear the same thing, but the fact that i have new choices for my male attire.
As a Crossdresser, i still shop in the Women's section for my girl clothes, but i have no problem rocking mens combat boots with my Drag look....or incorporating something femme into my male attire. I will always leave skirts for Drag/CDing, unless im doing a Braveheart......
-Donni-
Ahhh.. I should have worded that better. What they (general public) are seeing is a man appearing as a female in front of them. They automatically question that. It has nothing to do with dressing provocatively (although some CD/TG/ might).Quote:
Originally Posted by jenni_xx
Anybody that goes beyond the clothing aspect has to question why they do it and learn to accept it's more than the clothes instead of making excuses for themselves, I've been there myself.
To be honest, the way you worded it was just fine. In my reply to you, I never meant to imply that it had to do with dressing provocatively, so perhaps I should be the one who should have worded my post better. To clarify, my post was specifically addressing the notion of simply appearing as a female in front of men. No matter the style of clothing, be it provocative or conservative, there are men (there are people in the "general public") who will interpret others "public persona" in the way that will not extend beyond their own rationale.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marleena
But, we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves here. We are speaking only in terms of expressing opinion, not fact. You, nor I, can really say with total assurance what "THEY" are seeing. Nor what "THEY" are automatically questioning.
and there, in my opinion is a thought line that poses a big problem.Quote:
also do not wish to see men start wearing womens fashions. I like that there is a difference between men and women
I for one DO NOT like the limitations based upon what is on our chest and between our legs (and lets admit it, that is exactly what it is)
This line sounds like the men that were all "I personally never want women to get into my field of work, I like women knowing their place."
Sorry but that is what I see when I see a male, or a female, or a Tg saying such a line.
The only limitations are those which society imposes. I love the fact that you do not like limitations, and I'm with you on that.
This line you really can't prove. Assuming everyman is an individual, then what you see isn't necessarily what you get. Supposing someone saw you at a company presentation looking all tony in your Brooks Brothers suit and said that of you. It would in fact be a total miss on their part. some men may not be "aware" of deeper feelings, some may have buried it, and some men may "come around" when they are 50 and some just do it and hide it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sara Jessica
By looking at some of yesteryears great dressers like Cary Grant, Gene Kelly, Fred Astaire,, even Rock Hudson and Tab Hunter and Richard Chamberlain were pretty classy dressers but hardly anyone would have pegged them as gay/bi, since they played the romantic lead with such panache. They certainly looked like a man's man.
It is hard to make a real assessment of your neighbor, as they often times turn out to be serial killers, bank robbers, child molesters and worse.
People that appear to approve , or at least don't say anything contrary, of men is skirts may have their own pecadillos so they don't see that being a Cder is necessarily odd. We vocally or silently approve of things based on our own inner condition. Someone doesn't look like a commie but they might give someone a pass if they started spouting Lenin. Are they a liberal or a sympathizer?
to suggest that 99 whatever% are cookie cutter people isn't fair by a long shot and may be missing a lot of things by a mile.
Pythos, you hit the nail on the head! We should not base clothing choices on what is between our legs. I have been doing some googling with interesting results. For example google "men wearing womens clothing" and read the websites that appear in the top 20 results. After you have finished, then gooble "women wearing men's clothing" and read the websites that appear in the top 20 results. In the case of men wearing women's clothing, there are a lot of negative comments and social implications. In the case of women wearing men's clothing, there are not so many negative comments or social implications, and in fact, there is a lot of encouragement and reference to articles in women's magazines on how to incorporate men's clothing/accessories to appear more masculine. Yes, many of these magazines actually advocate women appearing more masculine. Google proves the double standard, Just do the google searches above if you don't believe me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythos
I stated this in another post, but I think it would serve better as a point to be reiterated here:
I am a human being who just happens to wear clothes.
Leaves didn't cover enough, and loincloths were somehow worse. LOL
Sometimes it's Guy Clothing, sometimes its Girl Clothing, and I style myself accordingly to what I wear.
I feel comfortable in what I wear when I wear it, as I choose my attire with equal care either way.
Beyond the stripped down elemental fact of I wear clothing, everything else is simply a matter of personal taste.
I agree with this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pythos
I think a lot of people just take our society's norms for granted and forget that a few centuries ago, men were dressing in heels and such and as far as I know, no one was questioning their masculinity back then.
Can we not post male pics or were you just making a statement about your own situation?Quote:
If I could post post male pics here, I would to show my outfit.
I agree with this as well in regards to where we are as a society now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariamythe
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonniDarkness
I love your google idea and it really shows the double standard that is going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie001
Hi,
As a Scottish woman what i have seen is very different in dress attire , the men have some wonderfull clothes, look very smart & very stand out . & quite frankly they do have some nice clothes they can choose to wear apart form our highland bands . so dont put down men in what ...they ... can wear,
& some of you do dress quite lovely . it would be nice to know what other women think , how they see this in terms of who are we dressing for to show others or we just like dressing in something nice & looks nice on us,
With my Scottish background ill be looking at makeing one or two outfits up as a member of our Scottish soc, i think it would be approprate & now i have our colour's & our Coat of Arms ill be able to do this, it's taken me over 50 years to finiliy get our information .
...noeleena...
"normal" guys are bored with men's "fashion" too. So bored they don't even care; its like it doesn't even exist. But I have no idea what you could do to mens fashion to get normal guys (or CDs) to care. but it bores everybody.
But as many have said, (for me at least) "having more styles/fabrics" is just an excuse. As a guy I don't care about guy clothes. I never wish I had a satin dress shirt. But the girl part of me looks at the way a dress flows on a girls figure or how soft a top feels and that I want/care about. Its not about the clothes. Its about a connection with the female desire to feel pretty. (I don't even want to think about the philosophical implications of that statement right now.)
I agree that the majority of males are quite content to be and present as just that. All the men I know personally see themselves as male and as one put it to me a few weeks ago; "Why whould I want to dress as a woman? I'm a man." Societal pressure and fear of persecution does play a small part but it is VERY small. The overwhelming majority of men just don't want to dress in a skirt, end of story.
However, I also agree that mens clothing choice is severly limited. Putting aside styling it's all a variation on a theme. Think about it. Jeans/shorts and a t-shirt, slacks a shirt, suit and tie, shoes or trainers. It's all the same, just slightly different.
Womens clothing on the other has has far more variety. Skirt or trousers, blouse, t-shirt or vest top, tights, stockings or bare legs. Dresses in a huge variety of styles. High heels or flats. There's even more variety in underwear. Men can have boxers or y-fronts/pants; whereas women can have knickers or thongs or french panties, push up bras or support bras or even a single piece combination. Even tights have a large variety of colours, styles and patterns.
I see myself as male because that's what sex I was born. I do wish I had been born female and to that end I dress in female clothing a fair amount. However, whether I'm presenting as male or female I don't really give a crap about fashion. If it's comfortable and looks good on me I don't care if it's trendy or not. I don't mix and match though, aside from my toe nails which are always painted it has to be either female or male, not a combination.
Not strange at all. My en homme mode is pretty casual, although I do like dressing-up-dressing-up in guy mode almost as much as I like going en femme. I would almost say my "everyday" is non-gendered and that I "dress the role" when I do dress up. If that makes any sense.:strugglinQuote:
Originally Posted by Megan72
Look, this stuff about men's clothing being boring, doesn't feel nice, etc is simply a manifestation of needing to create an excuse to wear girl stuff. Pick up mens fashion magazines, start with GQ, and you'll find plenty of great clothes for men. And yes, nice fabrics too. Want fancy colors? Go to racing automobile and motorcycle shops, websites, and buy the fancy bright colored outfits that the motor companies sell to promote their products. I'd hardly call Ferrari red or yellow bland colors. And I have an absolutely terrific Sunoco 260 action bright blue and yellow jacket from the seventies. Look and ye shall find. But like GG's go through, you're not just going to walk into one store and immediately find what you're looking for; I've known women who've had to search for years for that perfect pair of shoes or a top to match the rest of her outfit.
Great fashion is a lot of work. So if you really want to live it like a girl, they get used to all the trouble they go through as well! Living life 'like a woman' isn't as easy as you think it is.
good luck with changing the world...
i don't see anyone here saying there is something wrong with dressing...cd'ing or fetish dressing... just accept that what you are doing is viewed the way it is...dont be defensive about, dont make up stuff about what others guys might want to make yourself feel like more the other guys..no doubt there are some guys out there that might like a blouse, so what...
if you choose to fight for the right of other men to feel good about wearing feminine clothes then go for it... but trying to convince a huge swath of men that there are better clothing choices outside their normal clothes achieves what exactly??
also for some people, if what you are wearing now was socially acceptable, you'd wear something else anyway..
and saying "you can't prove it" doesn't add anything.... according to David Hume, technically you can't prove anything anyway...
As the heading on this thread goes, " dudes are totally cool with being dudes...get used to it", well I can, but can they get used to our tastes? Unfortunately they can not...so we need to get used to that! I am not trying to change the world to be like me, just change the world to be more accepting of anyone who may be different. There is a cultural cliff to climb here and it has few hand or toe holds available. Yet, take hope, I have seen many things change in my life time, who knows what tomorrow holds in store. We may distain the comic CD routine as occasionally seen in some TV programs, but it is still trail blazing a path for others to follow.
When others comment on how women are adopting male qualities, what do you expect when we live in a culture that still doesn't fully regard their women properly, and their qualities. In a male dominant society most want to be in the dominant arena, if a society was unisexual in dominance... then logic says that people would drift to that ground!