"Transitioning" from Cross dresser to Trans ...when did it happen to you.

Thank you Kaylee,

It's possible I might be slightly concerned that you think I'm "very insulting". But I would only entertain that thought if I hadn't specifically stated in my previous comment,

"For these next few sentences I want to apologize in advance, because I know now that there are varying degrees on the identity scale and I have absolutely no intention of insulting anyone."

Especially since I stated that is what my opinion was in my mid 20's. I certainly hope that in 2014 we're all still entitled to our own opinions, but I'm sure it's just wishful thinking on my part.

Thanks again.

@CTCDTV - why do you ask your question?

It is not inevitable, despite the joke that all CDs will transition. Indeed most won't.

Cross Dressing is a form of cross gender behavior that is a strong indicator that one is trans, but it is by no means conclusive proof of it. It's simply evidence in favor of it. There are plenty of trans women who never CDed, there are plenty who did. (Or perhaps the 5 year olds who crossdress and identify as girls are living out a fantasy?!? Seems unlikely.)

Crossdressing is a symptom, that's it. There are many different symptoms that help indicate one is trans, there are enough of them that two different trans women can present rather different symptoms, at least on the surface.

The balance tipped for me years ago, when I was 35, but I didn't realize it at the time. A female friend dressed me in her clothes, shoes and wig and made me up. Although I had been dressing partially since childhood, I had never been fully "turned out" like that, and when I looked into the mirror on her door, I saw me for the first time. It only took another 25-plus years to learn and accept that I was a woman, and had been all my life. It was a great relief to feel certainty after years of shame and confusion, even though the question of what to do with this self-knowledge is still wide open.

I did HRT under medical supervision for two months, and loved it, but then I had to stop for health reasons. So if I do transition, it will probably have to be without hormones and without surgery. Under those circumstances, and at my age, would it be worth throwing everything else away? We'll see.

:) Lallie

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Originally Posted by Angela Campbell

In a lot of cases the difference is .....a wife.

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I thought that's what separated middle pathers from full on transition:battingeyelashes:

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Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin

What, no one? Really? This is neither funny, nor is there any truth to this kernel or otherwise. This is a tired old meme used by white middle aged m** to justify a breakout into fantasy land.

Oh and by the way OP, there is no such thing as "transitioning from crossdresser to trans...." It is an insult to those who actually transition. I would call it rolling from one fantasy into another.

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Being humorous is always dangerous on a topic like this. And being insulted and speaking for a very wide spectrum of the world population is also being on thin ice.

The point of this post is to try to bring happiness into the discussion. And to save it because it is so meaningful. If I post, I can find it. And I am trying to make this topic a joyous one for all of us.

I've lived an unhappy life and I don't want to do that anymore. But that's just me. One person, an older white (stereotyped) male trying to live a thoughtful life.

Namaste :hugs: robbin

This is one of those threads about the implications of language. I have always been of the school that maintains that language matters.

In this case, where there are objections, the gist is that the language being used (particularly transition-related language) easily carries over into connotations on the nature of transsexuality. Veronica Moonlit hit on this in her response to Kathryn when she asked whether she would prefer alternative language. She did not, however, address Kathryn's actual point, which was conceptual.

I don't find the use of "transitioning from CD to TS" insulting, exactly. I do think it undermines the significance of transition. I haven't even transitioned yet. But I am in transition planning and I can tell you that it is hell to live already in many respects. By contrast, the brief period following my coming out to my spouse when I identified briefly as a cross-dresser (for lack of anything better at that point) was sunshine and daisies by comparison. So was the period following the realization and acceptance that I am TS. It started hitting the fan when I decided to transition.

Real, substantive differences between life-long cross-dressers, gender-variant people, and transsexuals have become obvious to me. This despite a few shared characteristics, too. They are different conditions with different management regimens and resolutions. I am aware that many who hold this views did not arrive at it until they realized they were TS themselves. But the fact is that those of us who do hold them, hold them honestly, the conviction coming of our own experiences, including when comparing them to others during our "CD" periods (so-called).

Moreover, this is not the view of a tiny minority among TS, though by no means universal. The differences go to the profound nature of transition itself, elements to which even pre-ops on HRT can relate to a degree. That's where the objections to the language start in a TS forum (not a TG forum) when someone talks about "transitioning" from CD to TG.

Language matters.

Like many here, I knew from about the age of 9 or 10 that I wanted to be a girl. I remember the afternoon vividly when I asked my mother when the things on my chest would grow likes hers. I was devastated when she said they wouldn’t because I was a boy like my dad. Until then I had just considered myself a kid with boy and girl playmates but I was often more comfortable playing with the girls but I also had my boy toys which I would play with other boys. But after the question incident I just continued on as there was nothing I could do, but pray to God that he would fix me that I would one day wake up a girl. About that time two other things occurred, mom would leave her nylons hanging over the shower rod to dry and I tried them on and they felt oooohhh so good and I started crossdressing, and I also heard about Christine Jorgenson and the notion of a woman trapped in a man’s body and when I heard that, my first thought was – “That’s me!” But that was like 1965 or 1966 and I can’t remember if I ever told anyone because admitting something that just wasn’t acceptable. But with no change apparently in sight, I just resigned myself to live as well as I could, not be a sissy and just try to get along.
I told my first wife I was a crossdresser and tried many things to make enough money to be able to afford to transition But first marriage ended.
Long story short, started meeting other women and it seemed were all Christians so I got “saved,” purged again and thought I was cured. But I wasn’t, feelings of wanting to become a woman came back and as I got older, realizing time was running out, GD kicked in with a vengeance and wanted to die. Fortunately found this site. Found out more about GD and got into therapy and quit denying and got the letter recommending HRT but I haven’t been able to pull the pin and end this marriage because of a 15 YO son and a wife who will never accept.
So it was never CD crossing into TG, and I won’t say transsexual in deference to some of the other girls who I admire and respect for the courage of their convictions who have transitioned or are in the process.
Like most I think we know and CDing is just an intermediate step.

I wonder if the OP will be back?

One thing is that at least crossdressers are allowed to be happy once in a while.

My belief is I did not transition from Crossdresser to trans, instead I just finally accepted who I was inside. Like many others I can remember wishing/wanting to be a girl at a very young age but buried it deep down inside as I figured it was impossible or just a pipe dream. I also never once researched the labels to see what the difference between a TS and a CD was.

Trish..

Yeah, when I thought I was a CD my biggest worry was being caught. Now my twin challenge is to forget how wonderful I felt when I was on the transition path--getting gender counseling, working with an MTF endo, undergoing HRT and coming out to close friends--and learn to survive without the rainbow. As guilt-ridden and conflicted as I was for most of my life, closet CDing seemed to treat what was ailing me. Now it just reminds me of how stuck I am.

:) Lallie

I think once you start HRT, you've gone beyond CDing.

I stumbled onto this thread and can't stop reading. Fascinating....

I am TG where on the spectrum...is still to be determined. For me to admit that I would want to change genders was unthinkable... but I don't know these days...

Questions: I hope I don't insult and certainly don't mean to offend...

1. did you know you wanted to be a female from the beginning... I knew I was hooked at age 5 with CD'ing... I would consider these to be connected with gender awareness but not in significance.. I just don't know... thoughts?

2. from my limited understanding... internally this conflict goes on and can be pushed aside for many but then... is triggered or whatever and then wham... must be expressed..

3. I don't feel i want to address the family issues nor the friend issues...so that must mean that I am not there yet ? or maybe not at all.... thoughts?

4. did any of you remain married or with your partner during your transitions? did it destroy everything in your paths?

5. I don't mean to sound bad...but I find there is great pain in being TS. thoughts on this..? has it been worth the trouble..? how do you know?

Sorry.... I am going to continue to read this again and again.. have to say, for me, this is the best post thread on this forum... at least the most impactfull for me...

Vanessa

Nobody chooses to be TS. Yes, there is great pain in being TS. You don't have a choice in whether or not you're TS. You're born that way, if you are. You don't have a choice in being a CD either, you're born that way too. Nobody chooses to be TS. Think about it, why would anyone choose a life that's full of pain, suffering, possible suicide, and a transition that can wreck your life? Nobody chooses this. You are or you aren't. What's tricky is you make discoveries. If you are TS you've likely known but repressed it, and it will be revealed to you in many possible ways.

1. You might read articles and determine that you relate to all the TS feelings.

2. You may need years of therapy to realize it.

3. You might have suicidal thoughts and want to die or be reincarnated as a girl.

4. You might have suffered "indirect dysphoria" symptoms (which is basically depression and anxiety) that is really the sign of a gender conflict.

5. You might do a lot of CDing out in the real world and decide you really are a woman based on real life experience.

6. Any combination of the above.

7. This list is not comprehensive. There are plenty of other ways to discover who you really are.

Questions for you Vanny
1. Is your core gender identity male, female, or something else?

2. Does your gender identity conflict cause you great pain or stress?

If you're not sure the answers to these questions, it's ok. Maybe you'll want to explore this more. Consider seeing a therapist. Consider presenting out in the real world as a woman and see if it feels right to you. Start attending a transgender support group. I would highly recommend your first time out that you go with a support group or a friend that you're out to, but don't go it alone. Good luck with your journey.

My answers to your questions.
1. Yes. I didn't start CDing until I was 13, but my cross-gender expression showed up in other ways since I was 5. I repressed it as best as I could and tried to be guy, yet a very awkward one, but I always felt like I was really a girl on the inside.

2. I thought that by accomplishing something or getting something else that I wanted that it would solve all my problems. I had two final straws.
a) My GD started going on steroids in 2010. I thought the problem was the cool, more overcast beach weather, and that by moving to the warm and sunny Valley, that would solve all my problems. Guess what? Moving to the Valley didn't solve anything, and my GD only went on a double, triple, and quadruple dose of steroids since I moved to the Valley in 2011.
b) I don't truly understand what happened in 2013 but let's say that the psychic told me to "man up" and I believed her b.s. and ultimately that led to a huge crash and one gigantic series of nervous breakdowns after another. 2013 could have been a last dinosaur cry of trying to let go of my male identity and male privilege.

3. I'm scared of how others will react and what they will think. I know who I really am. I plan to start seeking therapy and to start breaking down all the obstacles.
a) I'm scared of how my family is going to react. I'm not worried that they will disown me, but rather that they might try to guilt trip me into not transitioning.
b) I was scared of the neighbors, and that kept me from leaving the house while dressed, but I finally said **** it and went out presenting as female last night and I didn't care if I got caught by the neighbors.
It's normal to feel scared, and eventually you'll just say the heck with it and just do it.

4. I've never been married so I have no experience. Most transwomen though end up getting divorced, around 90-95%.

5. Ask any transwoman who has fully transitioned. They all say that it's worth the trouble and it really eliminates the gender dysphoria. If you're truly TS than you may need to transition. If you're not TS than there's no need to transition.

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Originally Posted by Vanessa Rose

Questions: I hope I don't insult and certainly don't mean to offend...

1. did you know you wanted to be a female from the beginning...

2. from my limited understanding... internally this conflict goes on and can be pushed aside for many but then... is triggered or whatever and then wham... must be expressed..

3. I don't feel i want to address the family issues nor the friend issues...so that must mean that I am not there yet ? or maybe not at all.... thoughts?

4. did any of you remain married or with your partner during your transitions? did it destroy everything in your paths?

5. I don't mean to sound bad...but I find there is great pain in being TS. thoughts on this..? has it been worth the trouble..? how do you know?

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1. define begining...I knew i wanted to be a girl since i was a young teen but it just seemed like and impossible fantasy.

2 yeah that is pretty much how it happened for me.

3. I don't know what it means for you but it wasn't even a thought for me. That would have been like saying i don't want to address the death issue so I'm not going to die, avoiding it wasn't an option.

4, Thank mythical hairy sky dude (of your choosing) that I DIDN"T stay married!!!! Transition did not destroy anything for me really other than a life that made no sense and caused me much pain and suffering sadness and shame.

5. most of the pain was before and during early transition now life is just....uncomplicated.

Has it been worth it? Transition has been the most worth it thing I have ever done everything else was a distraction. How do I know? because the emptiness and self hatred are gone.

Aprilrain and Michelle,

Thanks for your responses. I means a great deal to me that you did.


To answer your questions. I am exploring feeling and have a need to go to counseling.

I identify male and don't hate it but also like being female whenever I can. At least now the drive to expand her and leave my male side is so strong it is a real challenge for me to
Go about simple things. Distracted

Regarding anxious or stressed, i have always been very anxious and compulsive
As I think back I don't believe these were focused around my sexual inclination (gender) anymore than anything else; work, life; kids; expression/trapped without being able to be either gender when I felt it was needed, a bad relationship etc etc

I don't necessarily feel trapped in another sexes body but I don't like the sex I portray each day either. Make sense

Maybe I am stuck in limbo. Don't know. A guy in a dress is no place for any person to be stuck. Yuk. Just yuk. But going to the other extreme is for now not part if the plan
...at least at this moment

If I could choose, I would incline 85-90 woman to rest guy. Today.

Does that answer your questions?

Vanessa

Wow, I can not believe how "On the Mark" that article has been and identified me as a G-3. Thank you for posting the study.

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

One day I stumbled over this article http://avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

I hope that helps...

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Originally Posted by Michelle789

The realization that I'm trans was a gradual and painful process.
Me too. Every time I saw a documentary about transition or heard a story about someone that a friend (or friend of a friend) knew it always struck a raw nerve and I secretly wished I could have the opportunity to transition. Starting in late 2012 I started to read about TS women, read stories, saw videos and documentaries, and eventually I joined this forum and started speaking with the transwomen on this site. I saw the commonalities too with both the transwomen on this forum, in videos I watched, and in other stories I read elsewhere.

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I couldn't even watch a show of any kind that had anything to do with transition if someone else was in the room, i.e. wife, for fear that my interest would show and she would know, and I knew I just couldn't be one of those. When I was alone however I watched every one I could and took comfort in knowing I wasn't the only one. This was about age 50. This was the very start of my transition, information gathering. While I don't agree with the OP's language it does have some merit. I started CD'ing in my early teens, did the whole buy clothes purge, buy clothes purge many, many times just knowing I could never be a woman. Then at about 52 I started CD'ing more, the more I dressed the better I felt, the better I felt the more I dressed. When I took stock of my life as I looked back all I saw was a lie, one big fat lie which caused anxiety, depression, loneliness, most of us have been there. I was then about 56 and decided it was time to live MY LIFE or die trying which beat the alternative of dying by my own hand from not trying. So it was not so much a transition from CD'er to TG'er but just acknowledging what I already knew. Then at 57 I started hormones and bingo, bango, bongo, I was ME and that was OK.
I don't know how many here remember the series of I'm OK, You're OK books from the 1970's but I was in the You're OK, I'm not OK group now I am in the I'm OK and if you don't like it tough s**t one :heehee:.

My involvement was mostly in my mind until age 50. Then with my wife's help I practiced until we could go out in public together. Up until that moment I thought it was just a quirk of mine, nothing major. My wife says she knew it was serious when I started crying on the ride home that first day. At that point I started examining my feelings and thoughts I had while growing up. I soon realized that I was somewhere further along the trans spectrum then I had expected. From that period on I have spent as much time "out and about" as I can. Sometimes dressed down, sometimes dressed up. At least for the near future that seems to be enough for me. I help run a trans social group a couple times a month and it seems lately like we have at least one friend a year transition to full time. That is a big change over what was typical just 5 years ago.

Vanessa if your self analysis is accurate run away from here as fast as you can!! LOL

Reading your post, i'd urge you to get to the therapist and work this stuff out...

Trust me, you don't want to be anything more than 85% woman because that man part of you can live a full life even if you have to live with a dual nature...many many people do this successfully without giving up their jobs, families and money..some do it privately and some very publicly...there are many options..

That being said, I would echo April's comments that transition was the most "Worth it" thing I've ever done.. .. the reason i say that is because its the first thing i did in my life that actually felt like i was doing it for me...that sounds selfish but its different than the idea of selfish... the key words are "felt like"... i did lots of things for me and for others, but over the years my transsexuality robbed me of the ability to get any meaningful pleasure or fulfillment out of anything i did...that's because i was doing everything for this pretend person.. for me that was the core aspect of all this... i had never allowed myself to live a life that actually felt like a life....

The OP says trans, but not trans-what. I have stated I am transgender for at least a dozen years. I am now working through my transsexual feelings. So to me, it isn't a transition as much as a realization or step in self awareness.

For Vanessa, I don't know that I pushed it aside. Either I did subconsciously or my feelings just deepened over the years. Addressing the family is probably different for everyone. I have long let some family know and there are some others I would tell even without transition. Others I was holding back on as they would be more difficult to educate. They may just be getting it anyway at this point. My wife is highly supportive to the point of saying "just do it, the back and forth is more stressful". She says she loves me no matter how I look. I suspect she is sticking around.

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Originally Posted by StephanieC

I think once you start HRT, you've gone beyond CDing.

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Ignoring the few CDs who somehow bumble onto hormones out of ignorance or stupidity, I agree.

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Originally Posted by Vanessa Rose

Questions: I hope I don't insult and certainly don't mean to offend...

1. did you know you wanted to be a female from the beginning... I knew I was hooked at age 5 with CD'ing... I would consider these to be connected with gender awareness but not in significance.. I just don't know... thoughts?

2. from my limited understanding... internally this conflict goes on and can be pushed aside for many but then... is triggered or whatever and then wham... must be expressed..

3. I don't feel i want to address the family issues nor the friend issues...so that must mean that I am not there yet ? or maybe not at all.... thoughts?

4. did any of you remain married or with your partner during your transitions? did it destroy everything in your paths?

5. I don't mean to sound bad...but I find there is great pain in being TS. thoughts on this..? has it been worth the trouble..? how do you know?

Vanessa

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1) I was aware of ... something in my earliest memories ... can't say what, exactly. I was well aware that I had to hide certain things by the time I was 6-7 or so.

2) According to my therapist, most TS are triggered strongly. I was by coming out to my wife as what I mistakenly took as being a crossdresser. It produced an avalanche.

3) There ARE no family and friends issues unless you either near transition or intend to involve them somehow. I strongly encourage you to keep this private until you have a need to do otherwise ... and by need I don't mean the desire to tell. I'm an advocate of informing your wife, but even there, it's something that has to be approached carefully.

4) I'm out to my wife as transitioning. We are still together and I believe we will remain so. The effects on the marriage have not been pretty, though. And that's all I'm saying.

5) There's a lot of pain and fear for most until well after transition, it seems. There is also a deeper comfort that comes from finally becoming yourself. I don't try to weigh one against the other and question of making decisions on that sort of thinking (is it worth it) becomes irrelevant as the overthinking fades in favor of pressing ahead out of visceral need.

I have many feelings, and thoughts and conflicts but not an "avalanche" as I interpret many TS have. I just hope I am not stuck in the middle, somewhere, nowhere.. just there. Regardless where I am stuck, i either need to lose weight or must decidedly plan on taking a long time to get there... I do plan on losing weight...

I met my SO and we talked about everything, especially my gender confusion.. she didn't care a bit in her own words.. but I think she does. If I was her, how would i fight this silent calling....that for me is fighting to express outwardly. Can you elucidate on how this has been tough on the marriage, without getting too private...meaning.. discussions before and after and changes to these.... I have told her that if I did transition, or did decide afterall that I needed to do this, what would that mean...she said I will love you but also said, lets not deal in hypotheticals.. we could do that all day... kind of gave me the creeps.. there is then, an open door exit for her. But we are incredibly bonded...so strong, so similar and so direct in our communication, that we are virtually identical except for this one gender piece. I hope this makes sense.... the truth be told, she is beautiful and no matter what id did or how far i would come, I could never be more feminine than her...my baby....

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Originally Posted by Sue

Vanessa, I don't know that I pushed it aside. Either I did subconsciously or my feelings just deepened over the years. Addressing the family is probably different for everyone. I have long let some family know and there are some others I would tell even without transition. Others I was holding back on as they would be more difficult to educate. They may just be getting it anyway at this point. My wife is highly supportive to the point of saying "just do it, the back and forth is more stressful". She says she loves me no matter how I look. I suspect she is sticking around.

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Regarding family Sue, I don't intend on sharing anything without making some very hard decisions. I am far from that.. I like your thoughts about moving from TG to another place over the years to where you are now. I would have to give additional thought to that honestly... I just, if this makes sense, have not had the option to think of this for raising a family, a failed relationship and all. I have soo much going on in my life, I want to make sure I go slow, and take deliberate steps, purposeful steps that give me time to find out exactly what I am, who I am and then if a plan needs to be made or not, execute on whatever I need to... Surely this is not to be taken lightly... from all the postings... the challenge is significant... so much to learn and think about.. so thank you for your thoughts here..

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

Vanessa if your self analysis is accurate run away from here as fast as you can!! LOL

Reading your post, i'd urge you to get to the therapist and work this stuff out...

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Yes that is how i interpret this.. for me, with no reasonable therapy or informed input to help me find me.. I am not lost, don't get me wrong, but To be asked the right questions, read the right articles and take in and digest the right knowledge is key for me.. a therapist will be at the center... I am wondering if my SO should attend as well as she has said that she would... thoughts...

Thanks also for your thoughts about transitioning and if it was worth it. The force that drives this need, is more than I have now, however the scary thing, is the force that is driving me is changing and becoming more powerful and vocal and expressive. I am not effeminate...hardly, but the female side is not a force that I understand or know how to communicate with... I try to understand and listen, but if I don't know what I need to hear to understand... all the listening and trying is largely unproductive.. hope that makes sense..

I have not been overwhelmed but I also have not been out regularly.. I have a SO that could care less if we went out in public...she wants to help but I keep pushing it aside.. this thing, these feelings are very personal... so I know something is defensive and the walls are up... I do have her support though, but am treading lightly.. slowly.. I want to understand before I say stuff, do stuff... act... People think I am nuts on this board for my hesitation... with a supportive SO.. but we have been together for over a year and are strong. I don't know if strong is what gets couples through this and there is no need to scare or alarm unnecessarily... make sense?

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Originally Posted by Rachel Smith

When I took stock of my life as I looked back all I saw was a lie, one big fat lie which caused anxiety, depression, loneliness, most of us have been there. I was then about 56 and decided it was time to live MY LIFE or die trying which beat the alternative of dying by my own hand from not trying. So it was not so much a transition from CD'er to TG'er but just acknowledging what I already knew. Then at 57 I started hormones and bingo, bango, bongo, I was ME and that was OK.

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I am in my 50's and I am going into the I don't care what others think part of my life. However I am not there, and I would think, but don't know if at this time of my life if the transition is easier or harder. Likely does not matter but I will have definitely have missed my youthful years... I never saw that series. I would have melted as a kid, because of my family's reaction... Times have changed..but have they changed enough...

thanks for your thoughts...

^^^Vanessa Rose.

1. Yes.

2. I could and did push it aside, but there was no wham. It was a grinding grudging acquiescence of my self that took me 3 decades to accomplish.

3. IMHO, yes, you are still in a lack of self acceptance phase. See my #2.

4. Yes, marriage survived. But . . . I landed in gender outlaw land. And my wife and I are aware we are like two overlapping circles in a Venn diagram - we exist in a narrow area of overlap. Further transition by me takes me out of the overlap, less acceptance and tolerance by her takes her out of the overlap. I remain in awe of the power of love's role in letting us find this island. Aprilrain had a snarky comment upthread about wives being the reason for middle path - I can't say shes wrong, but I'd add a lot of love is needed.

5. Yes, it is no fun learning your heart wants you to fly in the face of everything society taught you about gender. Sweetie we have a staggering suicide attempt/success rate among us. New study this month reaffirmed prior studies. Just remember "Do whatever it takes to make your life worth living."