"Pass, or Die"

^.^

As to: ""Well, you really brought this on yourself! You are a MAN, not a WOMAN! And we don't approve of boys who have sex with other boys here - we're Christians here and that's just ungodly." So I'm not guessing she's going to get much help from them."

I am a non-denominational Christian, and while the Bible, especially Romans 1 is especially grim on God's opinion on anything other than a one man/one woman relationship, as I tell my gay and lesbian friends, and I'll tell you here and now, NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY WE HUMANS ARE THE SWORD OF GOD!!

I tell the LGBT community that we need to watch, and not be intolerant of those who do not like our lifestyle, but the response your friend received reminded me that there are some people who THINK they are Christians, but kinda in a way that the Westboro people think they are Christians. If you can not understand the part of the Bible where Jesus talked about loving your neighbor, and let he who is without sin cast the first stone, then you are doing yourself and others a disservice, because you are stepping into the realm of those things that God reserves to do for himself, such as figuring out who was right and wrong whenever that matters.

And enough of the religiousity, which I only bring up because two non-Christians thought it necessary to judge someone else based on their own twisted version of the religion. It's one of my pet peeves.

I am glad that yourriend has people such as YOU in her life. You recognized the danger and refused to budge on making sure she was safe. Now, she WILL be safe, and she'll be around people who care for her and support her. It sounds like your neighborhood is a bit more diverse, and more open to having members of the LGBT community there. I will keep both of you in my thoughts, and send best wishes to both of you. I am assuming that you might be able to help her find a new place, and will kinda watch the situation to make sure she gets settled in someplace where this won't be an issue. You seem like that kind of strong person. :)


Amy M. Jackson

it disgusts me that the people working there would use any excuse at all to stick up for four men bashing someone's door in. I can't imagine how frightened your friend must have been. at least she knows she has at least one person looking out for her. Also I definitely think she did the right thing, it sounds like some kind of confrontation was exactly what these idiots wanted, and getting the shit kicked out of you is never the best solution to anything.

Hi Paula. I am so saddened to hear about your friend's traumatic event. She did the right thing running an no good can come of an altercation with such odds. However I am even more disturbed about how the condo management dealt with it. It is great that she has such a good friend in you during this hour of need . . .well done on you sweetie for being such great support.

Hugs

Isha

^.^

Structurally I am still a male, and getting into guy mode for a second ....

... yeah, even with the baseball bat that I have for home defense, I would
think twice before taking on one drunk guy, much less four or five. I have only
had to use the bat once in eight years, and that was to go upstairs and ask the neighbors at
that time if there was something I could help them with something (bat only slightly
hidden behind my leg) ... the man and woman living there at the time had
gotten into a major fight, and I thought I'd heard him hitting her, and given how
my family was when I was a child, I was not going to stand for that. If the man
had made any move even thinking of anything suggesting violence, I would have
clocked him, but that was me while very psyched up. ..

OK, now back to normal, female mode ...

... I think the big thing in this situation was that your friend did not have full control
of her situation. Which is why you insisted she move. Since I have started cross-dressing
while out on errands or going to work, I am always aware of my surroundings. On the one
hand, I am in a rural setting, but on the other hand, even though it was NOT about LGBT issues,
the Matt Sheperd murder happened right here where I live, so I don't fool myself into
thinking I am totally safe.


Amy M. Jackson

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarlaWestin

Me personally, I would backdress in my most male attire and simply wait in the parking lot. Ball cap, baseball bat, evil smile. Sometimes morons just need a little attitude adjustment.

---

Anyone got an "attitude wrench"?! I'm with Carla!

What a terrible story. It's just a sad state of affairs how many haters there are in this world. I don't see it getting better any time soon. It's just the way things are. You need to be able to take care of yourself and defend yourself. The police can't protect you. They come AFTER the assault, rape, murder, burglary, etc has been committed. You need to be able to protect yourself. You're the ONLY one you can truly count on. You're a good friend. I hope things get better for your friend.

Just remember if you are going to use a bat do NOT hit above the shoulders, that could be interpreted as intent to kill. Instead aim at shins, knees and use short swings or jabs don't swing for the fence. If possible take a self defense course, the instructors can teach you all kinds of debilitating hits.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sc0rp10N

Maybe this is out of place in this thread, but its all I was thinking while reading your story... She's still genetically male, she was an athlete (at least that's what I gathered from your description), understandably, more than likely not a winnable fight, but why not flip the guy switch, the athlete switch, that competitive nature switch and stand your ground? All fights = you win some, you lose some. 4-5 on 1 is a loss before it starts unless you're an MMA fighter, but maybe a little testosterone could have ended that whole scenario right then and there without leaving a lingering fear. Women are taught to be defensive and tough in situations like this, we men have in our blood, just because we wear skirts, doesn't mean its gone, but I can see how it may dull the reflex a bit. And I'm not trying to come down on your friend, this comment is more for the rest of us, there IS an alternative to living in fear, and its standing your ground, even in the face of overwhelming odds. Its not only a deterrent, its also a message.

---

You've got to be kidding.

Regarding Texas - yeah, for the most part, this is a horrible state to be transgender, with the exceptions of maybe Houston, Austin, and the City of Dallas. Dallas has some trans protections in its city ordinances - but only in the city. Not Dallas County, and in none of the adjacent cities or counties. My friend lives in Collin County - it is not trans friendly, although her condos are unusually hostile.

Regarding fighting - you know, when she weighed 350 lbs of mostly muscle, she might've had a chance against those guys. She'd have been hurt - but they wouldn't have messed with someone that size probably. At 220 lbs (mostly muscle mass loss), yeah, no way. Running was the correct response.

I want her at my house because I live in the City of Dallas, so we have some legal protection. At least we can go to the bathroom without harassment! The gayborhood is full of really accepting people - she won't have any problems down here - or at least she's WAAAY less likely too. She's way more of a femme than I am - they love her here in this neighborhood. She's a really girly-girl. (I've thought about getting her to join this site, some of y'all would really like her.)

Members - I know we're all very angry about what has happened to Paula's friend (and rightly so) but please try to stay within rules regarding prohibited contents, specifically this excerpt:

Quote:

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The following content is NOT allowed ANYWHERE on the forum and will be deleted.
• Religion of any sort, no exceptions
• Use/sale of illicit drugs and drug paraphernalia or condoning any other illegal activity.
• Guns/weapons, using, buying etc.

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Then we can keep the thread open... Thank you all
Katey
Moderator

There are things teen girls are told when they start getting male attention. Even if you go out for the evening looking hot, one can bring a pair of flats and some loose jeans to pull on when heading home. Dressing down doesn't prevent rape all the time obviously, but it tends to reduce the male aggression in the air.

I'm not blaming her, but just trying to pass along some of the gendered guidelines girls get.

Thanks Jess. The jeans idea is a great idea, thanks!

I've given her some of the same advice, but not that one. She just refuses. She's really femme. She loves heels. When she's really dolled up, she can stop traffic down here in the 'hood. She loves the attention.

I've said, fairly bluntly to her:

"Buy some ******* flats!"

I have at least gotten her into skinny jeans (sometimes) rather than really short skirts all the time. Her idea of toning down her footwear has been to go from 5" heels to 4".

There's reasons I dress like a soccer mom most of the time. It's not that I don't like many of the same things as her - but sometimes invisibility is your friend. I think like a lot of us though, she'd rather die than be something other than her true self. Like a lot of us, she feels like she's missed most of her life as a woman. I think she'll be herself regardless of the costs.

I'll see if I can get her to consider that. Mostly, I think the best I'll be able to do just need to avoid the issue and get her out of hatersville...

OMG! That is horrible, but I'm glad you are safe now. Be very careful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mechamoose

Even with a decade of Kung-Fu under my belt, I would be *very* concerned about taking on more than 2 opponents at once. Four or five? I'm running.

- MM

---

I'm a third-degree black belt in a hard-style Korean martial art (Tang Soo Do), and I agree with MM 100 percent. Running to safety was the best way to handle this. No way I'd ever, EVER, stand my ground with 5-on-1 odds. And to be honest, the best lesson from years and years of training is this: AVOID A FIGHT AT ALL COSTS.

Paula, I'm so glad that you are able to take your friend into your home for safety. That is a really scary story, I'll remember both of you in my prayers!

Hugs Bria

She is lucky to have your friendship and support. Please let us know when you both are safer in your place. And kudos to your son for showing what a true man should do in this situation and be helpful in a time of need.

First filing a police report, while making the victim feel better would not do anything at this point. Still, I would have it on record in case something else happens later.

Next, the trans community is often left out of hate crime protection. This is the case in Texas

Quote:

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The Texas James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Act, passed in 2001, provides enhanced penalties for hate crimes motivated by a victim’s race, religion, color, sex, disability, sexual preference, age, or national origin. Though the Act includes provision for crimes of bias based on “sexual preference,” it currently does not include bias crimes motivated by gender identity and expression. Additionally, Texas has yet to see an effective implementation and enforcement of the Hate Crimes Act.

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Even then Texas is bad about enforcing any violation of a hate crime.

Quote:

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Hate violence targeting transgender people remains a regular reality in Texas. From 1970 to 2004, Texas ranked third in the U.S. for reported murders of transgender individuals, with 15 murders in 6 cities. One expert estimates that transgender individuals living in America today have a one in 12 chance of being murdered. In contrast, other Texans have about a one in 18,500 chance of being murdered.

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There ya go, being a TG in Texas is like being a varmint

I don't really care how good your self defense skills are, 4 men ganging up on you will be a losing proposition. Transgender people are often targeted for property crimes, threats, assault, and murder. Hate-motivated violence against people because of their gender identity or expression is often characterized by actions that law enforcement personnel refer to as "overkill": excessive force over what is necessary just to attack someone, and is characterized by brutal, vicious violence.

Texas state law does not protect employees from discrimination based on their sexual orientation or gender identity

Texas state law does not protect persons from housing or public accommodations discrimination based on their sexual orientation or gender identity or expression

Texas state law does not protect persons from insurance discrimination based on their sexual orientation or gender identity or expression.

Bottom line. We, the TG community, can complain all we want but when we don't press for these rights they will not be forthcoming. Texas, as many states, have newer protections for Gays and Lesbians, but specifically exclude TGs, One in 12 TG people will be murdered in Texas. If this was your city would you let that go? So go ahead, be angered by what happened to Paula's friend. But you need to stand up too. Paula puts her life at risk every day, but although so many here rally behind her, how many Texas members here are willing to petition for equal rights? Uh huh, you can put your hand down now the one of you who would

While this is indeed a scary story, and in no way would I ever defend this type of behavior, I write this for us to bear in mind;
Mix Fuel (alchohol), with male ego (bruised by the "mistaken gender"), and add a dose of bravado (three or four drunken friends) and you have an instant problem. There was no way for Paula's friend to know this was going to go down, but if any of these three ingredients are missing, then we have no horror story. Things like this do indeed happen, and worse! But it remains atypical and calling the police right then and there is what to do, no matter the repercussions later. Your life is the most important thing here!

I'm sorry if this offends some but I'm a Texan thru and thru. I want to say if you don't think it can happen in other states you are mistaken. As long as there are macho alcoholics in groups the testosterone will flow. One summer we were heading for Jackson Hole Wyoming to elk hunt and stopped at a gas station to fill up in Denver, Colorado. There were four crazy males at the pump beside us. Myself and my son filled up and as we were walking inside to go to the rest room another punk got out of the car and yelled hey you Texas S ---s, Me and my friends want to F--- y'all up. I told my son who was only in high school to keep walking and if there was trouble here's the keys for him to run as hard as he could to the truck and lock the doors. I said I would hold them off and run jump into the back of the truck and for him to drive off fast. It's funny how when you need to pee and something like that happens all of a sudden you don't have to as bad. We turned and made a fast walk back to the truck and two more of the jerks had gotten out my son went straight to the truck and unlocked it then got in. I walked straight to the truck and they got between me and the truck. I jump around a pump and grabbed the handle and threw it back at them as hard as I could I jumped on the bumper and over inside the bed. My son and I speed off into the night. He stopped a couple blocks away I got into the drivers seat and told him if they chase us get your seat belt buckled, because I was gonna can them with the grill guard and keep on till they were mashed in the small car like a can of tuna.
My point we weren't dressed but common sense says we got the right to protect ourselves. It can happen anytime anyplace and one should always have a back up plan. You can pass as many anti laws as you want but in this situation and given the circumstances these guys wouldn't have cared what the law is. I do say it should have been reported as I worked five years in law enforcement to pay my way thru college.

@Secret Drawer, Jaylyn

Violence against transgender individuals is really commonplace. I posted something about my own scary experience last week, and believe me, that's not been my only issue. I haven't been chased by a gang of men, unlike my friend, which is really lucky for me, as I'm handicapped and I wouldn't have escaped. I know transwomen who've been beaten, raped, verbally assaulted and harassed. I know women who've experienced housing and medical discrimination.

One of my other friends, who's been unemployed for a long time, and now is underemployed, showed me a picture of herself taken last week with a noose around her neck. She was thinking about ending her life - has been for some time. I try to help her as I can, too.

It's so bad that I don't even bother to tell my family and cisgender friends about it all. They simply won't believe it - it can't be like that in America! Or so they think. Sadly, it is that bad, and worse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PaulaQ

"Well, you really brought this on yourself! You are a MAN, not a WOMAN! And we don't approve of boys who have sex with other boys here - we're Christians here and that's just ungodly."

---

What an unbelievable load of crap!
So this lady thinks Jesus would have been just alright with your friend getting beat to hell in her own home for the crime of existing within eyesight of those fine young men?
But man-love, oh hell no!

I mean ... how ... I just can't even ...
... GRARR!! ...

people are such myopic a-holes sometimes.

Paula, you're a damn good person for being there like that. I know you had your own rough patches recently, but just know ... you are one of the good ones, never stop shining your light, girl! :)

I hope your friend manages to find a safer place to live soon, and can find some peace and quiet from jerks like that.

Not to mention conflating being TG with being gay.

:rolleyes:

- MM

I replied earlier, but I've had some time to process this. As someone who has only just begun to explore the prospect of going out and about, who only 2 week's ago took my first outing, stories like this one are almost enough to make me want to stay hidden away in secret again. All I can think about is what the heck is wrong with those people? Seriously, what gives them the idea that violence is an acceptable course of action against a stranger? What did your friend do to them? And the management, ugh...
I am without words. They simply cannot express my disgust.

^.^

Saikotsu, ya have to remember that alcohol was involved,
and alcohol, while it is not an excuse, certainly explains
some of the actions.

The apartment managers had no such excuse, they displayed
a major bigotry, and used religion as a means.


Amy M. Jackson

Everyone has made excellent comments and have expressed our common outrage and sympathy. This was more than a fear-inducing chase of a cross dresser. It was an attack on human dignity and respect. Even the management's response was reprehensible - ignorance, prejudice, indifference. I won't suggest that any law will prevent this from happening again. I won't pretend that we can change bullies, and aggressors, and criminal behavior. But we should be never give up our right to live our lives as we want to - without fear. Maybe we need to be more careful. Maybe we can be better prepared to face threats. But we need to be strong, and never give up our dreams and principals. I was very sorry to read this. It touched my soul. And now I am angry. But I also feel closer to everyone who replied and shared our common feelings. Thank you all.