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Many GGs must silently suffer that one, they have full access to female things but when they compare to the glossy magazines etc. they must think why did I bother ? At least we can go back to guy mode and and do boy things ! A GG of a CDer also has the problem that he may have a better figure dressed !
I guess our problem is we have media saturation !
Vanity, thy name is................................................ .....................crossdresser?
Monday morning reality check, folks! :cheer:
Who defines the 'passable' bar anyway....???
If 'passable' just means going unnoticed, then 'passable' = 'blending' :)
Going unnoticed (for me - doing my people/GG watching) means: being neither stunningly attractive enough nor awfully gopping enough to demand (or deter!) a second, more detailed appraisal... I believe the 'very passable', alleged CDers and Traps fall into the former category... I don't think it's a good or bad thing, quite honestly - who in the real world spends their time looking at these photos anyway...? :eek:
I have known GGs who would not be categorised as passing based on their visual presentation - I think they probably suffer the same stigma CDers would...
There's a curious contradiction running through some aspects of this thread amongst those who venture out in public... You want to 'pass', to 'blend' - but at the same time you really want to be noticed... I think that perspective is worthy of more discussion... :devil:
Katey x
What does looking like a CD actually mean? Or "just" being a CD? First of all, disclaimers and stuff... everyone should dress the way they want to whatever extent they want. A dress and nothing more, with or without facial hair, make-up, flats or heels, altered voice or not. It's all good in the hood, as far as I'm concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desirae
For me, when I dress and put on make-up, I do so because it makes me feel good.. and strive to be as pretty as I can be. For me, pretty means a pretty woman.. and especially *MY* idea of a pretty woman. However, I am what (I think) I am.. and that is a CD, which is nothing more or less than being anything else.
I was quite lucky in the genes department and lucky with honest GG friends who have helped me shaped my feminine image... and I pass a lot of the time (not always) .. until I open my mouth, that is. What should I do.. since I'm not a TS? Wear a CD badge to make sure I'm not deceitful?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG
Again, don't get me wrong.. I think it takes a lot more courage going into the public knowing and realising that one isn't as passable. And I've stated in another thread I am proud to be seen with all sisters.
I just never realised that what I was doing was viewed in such a negative light or that I might be doing the CD community a disservice....:thinking:
Passable CDers are slightly less rare than unicorns but let's pretend for a minute that the world were as full of these passable CDers as the internet would have you believe. What business is it of anyone else's how that person chooses to present themselves? Is that sour grapes I smell?
I admire those that have the physical features that give them the ability to "pass" and feel a touch of envy, but also feel it gives me something to strive for. I would, like many, love to be shorter, thinner, have less masculine features and all that would put me into that category. Alas, nature was not that kind to me, but that does not mean that I can't try to be my best with what I have.
ok, so I enjoy pics of men who have made the physical transition to an acceptable feminine presentation. Notice my careful choice of words.
The reason for my interest in these pics is the same as my interest in GG's who make that same successful presentation...education! I love learning about how ti make my presentation better, and who better to learn from than great-looking GG's and great-looking CD's?
Way back, when I started out on my dressing, I looked at a LOT of pics. Shortly after that, I got into photography, and took a LOT of pics. Then I looked at more pics, and took even more pics. (Photos are the best way to measure progress when you go back and look at your older ones)
I must admit, the photos of the 'passable' ones were the ones that drove me more intensely to improve my appearance and photography. And over enough time, I started to figure out how to get pics that I was happy enough with to share online. (Which actually took years before I was comfortable sharing ANYTHING online).
And of course, there were (and still are) photos that are MORE than just skilled makeup and photography, and those ones I would simply dismiss as 'better genetics' than I. And although I would be envious of their natural femininty, I wouldn't feel jealous of them, or angry that I wasn't born more girly.
While I have had many highly positive comments on my Flickr page, I don't let any of it go to my head. And still would not consider myself 'passable' by the strictest definition of the word. Within 10 feet or less, I don't believe that I could pass in public (photos are easier because you can pick the angle and the lighting).
However, if I can achieve an appearance that makes me happy when I look in the mirror, then who cares about 'passing' ?
I quote Barbara because she was the first to post this sentiment, but there have been several others.Quote:
Originally Posted by BARBARA_MELENDEZ
This is exactly how I feel. Whether we're CD, GG, GM, TS, or whatever there will always be people who we think are prettier than us. Well, unless we're weighed down by unimaginable amounts of hubris. Regardless of how real the photos are, it doesn't matter. The important thing is to love yourself for who you are. And if you're not satisfied with something you have to decide if you can change it and if you want to. If so, do it. If not, learn to love it.
It ain't easy. It's also the only way to truly accept you for you.
I'm probably a bit biased because I feel like I can pass at times (especially if my fake OKCupid account is the judge), but I like looking at such pictures. It's inspiring to me.
In a lot of ways, cross dressing is a work of art, and every artist compares him/herself to the greats.
Aside from passability being totally subjective, there is all sorts of variance amongst all people. The 5"8, size 10 girl with doll features who we might all agree is 'passable' might well have enormous feet and hands. She might even have never considered herself passable. The 6"4 size 20 girl may not be considered traditionally passable, but she might a perfect 7 pump. She might even consider herself passable, maybe even beautiful, I'm not going to tell her she's wrong. I'll look at her strength of conviction and applaud. I think it's so easy to look at others and feel sad, but you know, some are born lucky, some find their own luck, but I think it's important to acknowledge that our community is as varied as every other, warts and all. If I'm honest I'm so guilty of the green eyed monster, and I worry endlessly about passability, it's one of my greatest failings, but I try not to fall victim of the grass is greener. Sometimes, just sometimes, the grass is painted green, and the flowers are fake.
X Flic X
I vacillate between being inspired ("Wow! It is possible; maybe I could do that?") and depressed ("Gah, no *** way could I ever achieve that.")
Unfortunately, the depressed reaction seems to happen more often.
I think that a lot of the pictures showing 'passable' crossdressers are probably very carefully posed to reveal only the parts that are presentable; if you saw the whole person, perhaps not exactly so passable after all. And I also think that taking those pictures, as well as posting them on the net, is more of a way for someone to reinforce to themselves of how pretty and feminine they look, and only secondly to show themselves to everyone else. JMHO, of course because this reflects why I dress the way I do.
So the bottom line is that we are jealous of men who can actually reasonably resemble actual women so we don't like them and we all feel collectively better by pointing out there flaws and deliberating about their credibility?
Emi... I'm shocked... :eek:
Are you suggesting that our emulation of all things femme perhaps extends beyond the exterior appearance and runs deeper and even more successfully to certain... errrr... stereotypical female behaviour....? :devil:
Well... let me hold your coat and handbag, dear... and remember ladies, no gouging or biting but hair pulling and scratching is OK.... ;)
Katey x
The TG individuals in those photos aren't "passable." They are incredible, in the same way that supermodels look incredible in their photos. Neither the TG people nor the supermodels wake up looking like that. What you see is the result of lucky genetics, the surgeon's and pharmaceutical arts, the makeup artist's expertise, the photographer's eye, and the photoshop artist's touch.
99% of us don't look so good, just as 99% of GGs don't look that good. Passing isn't a matter of how gorgeous you look but how well you "fit into" the skin that you have. That is a matter of observation, practice, and experience, not purely appearance.
I don't see any problem here. One might ask the same of pictures of attractive men and women, different contexts perhaps, but same concept. We all can't be pretty, handsome, young or buff, but that can't be held against those who are, nor should we be so fragile in our self image that we find the images of attractive others to be disheartening.
I feel some envy looking at beautiful TVs, sure. Probably similar to what GGs feel looking at Vogue. But the incredible enjoyment of CDing is not just based on how passable I might look. Just the feeling of the dresses, heels, makeup, etc....and a little time to escape maleness is over the top happiness.
Hi Sarah.
Pictures . . . hmmm . . . let me ponder this . . . thinking, thinking :thinking:. Let's face the facts of pictures because we all do it (and if anyone says they don't . . . I'll call BS on that) . . . for every one shot we put on this site we most likely take ten of the same shots, lighting, make-up, angle etc. Nobody wants to put their worst foot forward. So it is likely these pictures of truly stunning TG/CD/TS are the best of the bunch. However, I would hazard a bet that should you meet these same "pretty gals" up close and personal in real life . . . they guy would shine through (baring no surgical intervention).
So I would not get hung up on having the bar raised by these "pretty CDers" as we all have our own strengths and weakness when it comes to presenting. If your intent is to go out and enjoy yourself and you are going to compare yourself to the "pretty ones" you may never get out or if you are you will always feel self-conscious. I am not what you would call a "great looking guy" and I make and even "less attractive gal" but in the end I am who I am. While my physical proportions allow be to blend, I never survive first contact and people guess right away I am a CDer. All you can do is own the moment and let others think what they need to think. :)
Hugs
Isha
When I look at those pictures and videos I do get a pang of jealousy. In part because I couldn't do that now but also in part because when I was young I could have done something similar. In fact I would readily pass back in my twenties and beyond. I have a picture somewhere of me in fancy dress and I look like a woman without attempting to do so. But not anymore.
However it is one thing to look passable on video and quite another to look passable in reality. I was an extra on a movie called 'Breakfast on Pluto'. Essentially it's a story of a CD/TS and her various surreal adventures as befits a Neil Jordan movie. Sadly I was not crossdressed although I did wear a ridiculous high heeled pair of men's boots as it was set in the seventies. Check out the youtube videos. Cillian Murphy the star looks fantastic as indeed he did on set too. With professional make up and wardrobe he looked nothing less than fabulous.
But he would never pass as a woman for long. He's not a tall guy, the same height as me but much bulkier with bigger hands and feet. Away from the set he looked like a man in drag. You can hardly see that in the movie but in the cold light of day it was obvious.
So I won't be too jealous of those fabulous creatures. Those of us who truly pass are really quite rare.
Exactly, Allie. Society assigns too much worth to the physical appearance of women and men. I can get our family photo collection out and progress through the years. I was truly a very desirable looking guy in my 20's. My wife was a real cutie. I benefited from being 6 foot 1 and 175 pounds with a lean athletic build courtesy of the military. My wife benefited in the same way. I'm sure I got a job or two over another qualified man who was short and out of shape. That's society.
Yep, I go to those websites and review the pictures of those drop dead gorgeous women. At my age I don't envy them. I don't make comparisons. When I am en femme I know I will never pass. But, I do my best with what I have. In the real world many of those "passable" cross dressers will look totally different when the makeup is chipped off their faces.Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieSF
I feel this kind of sends mixed messages. I go to the photo forum and I see comments about how some women look 100% passable and I've been told myself that I am 100% passable - but then this thread I see people down playing those who are passable as "just good angles, they probably don't pass in public" or what have you. The truth of the matter is life isn't fair - genetics aren't fair. There's parts about you that you can change, parts you cannot change. It was because of the "incredibly passable" individuals that I decided to do what I can to be a healthier individual that drove me to where I am today, but at the same time it helped me to accept those parts I cannot change. I hate to think that I got to where I am by pure luck. Some of us (cis women especially) work really hard to make the changes needed in life to get there.
I don't think incredibly passable cross dressers are a bad thing. What I do find bad is to think that how genetically born men will go to great lengths to look like something that not even ciswomen can typically obtain. This happens on the cd'er and transgender side of the spectrum and doesn't do any favors for women in general. My wife has thin lips, hairier arms than me, ungroomed eye brows and I find her to be gorgeous. Yes, I groom myself to look better and there's nothing wrong with that. Improving your look is always a plus, but I understand there's a limit and a point at which it's simply harmful to one's self esteem.
tl dr; People are prettier than you and that's just how life is. Work with what you got and improve on what you can.
I view the picture, as a the possibility of what I can become.
A note on passing. There is a girl on this MB who regularly posts pix that get rave reviews on passability and her overall beauty. I have known this girl personally for many years and have been out with her. In her pix, she looks fantastic. She also looks great in person.
When she takes her first step in public, she shouts "man in a dress". She walks like a truckdriver in heels and, if not prompted to stand up straight, will stand slumped forward like a gorilla.
When we are out and about, there are just too many tells to even dream about passing as a girl.
Jodi
I think it's nice to look at pictures of attractive women whether they are or not.