So what if it was in your DNA???

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NICKY
YOU CAN COUNT ON ME
TO ALWAYS BE
BESIDE YOU EVERY DAY,
TO TELL YOU IT'S OKAY,
YOU WERE JUST BORN
THAT WAY,
AND, AS THEY SAY,
IT'S IN YOUR DNA, IF YOU WERE....

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It could be a slight genetic mutation. Since time immemorial there have been males dressing and or acting in female gender roles. I kind of doubt that though because it would be easily explained then and even though the song from AvenueQ says it, they haven't found a gay or CD gene (and they would not be relater either since more than 1/2 here are straight and dress.)

A combination of nature and nurture to EXPRESS the desire is more likely. Otherwise there would be a obvious line. Your Uncle Joe...his cousin Ralph...your great aunt Gertie who was really a spinster male living with 30 cats and a canary.

Or maybe all men are really female, but most just don't know it yet. We are the real pioneers of this world.

Katey...to suggest that transgenderism is somehow anything but a product of genetics is ridiculous. Virtually all major characteristics that make up an individual are the result of genetics, be it intelligence or lack of, sexual orientation, skin colour, psychotic behaviour, height, preference for beef over chicken. We are born the way we are, and in our case, our genetics put us somewhere in the middle of the gender scale that all human beings have a place on, regardless of the equipment we were born with. As for genes not being responsible for making us wear panties, perhaps...but genes are responsible for the fact that I have a deep desire to feel pretty and feminine and girly, and wearing panties is one method I have at my disposal to satisfy my desire. As for the question of whether or not I would hesitate in passing my TG genes to offspring, obviously I wouldn't hesitate passing down traits that can provide so much joy in a young person's life! Why do we always default to the "TGism is such a terrible burden" position? Thought provoking post...thank you.

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Originally Posted by Katey888

Partly I’ve been thinking about this because there is autism on my wife’s side of the family, but also because of a more obvious example experienced by a GG friend who was recently divorced, two children both around 7-9 years old, and one of the factors in the divorce was that the father suffered a known hereditary condition (similar to Ehlers-Danlos syndrome) that causes pronounced scarring after wound healing. The mother noticed the symptoms of this when her daughter was quite young and the father was forced to reveal his pre-knowledge of the hereditary condition. Of course she’s fought within herself over whether the relationship would have developed to having children had she known about the condition beforehand, because both children are now subject to this for a lifetime. On balance, that and other factors, would probably have caused the relationship to founder early.

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I so seriously hope that no mother would end a marriage because their partner had what is essentially a cosmetic hereditary condition. What are those children supposed to think? That a cosmetic condition makes them less loveable, that they aren't beautiful enough to deserve a happy marriage? I'm sure there were other factors but I do hope that the parents do not bring it into the picture because frankly I think that is a little bit shallow.

I have an inherited liver disease. When I was diagnosed (at 16) and got married (at 24) all of the literature and my specialist advised that I would probably need a liver transplant before I was 40 years old and life expectancy for those with my condition was less than 20 years from diagnosis. My wife knew this before we got married and had children. And yes, we did discuss whether we should have children, how many, how would my wife care for them if I did die at a young age. But when you decide to marry the vows are there "in sickness and in health".

Sorry Katey, nothing against you on this one, just seem to have my hackles up at the moment.

:hugs:

Katey et al.,

Interesting thread. As a biologist maybe I can add my two cents' worth here. If we are thinking about genes that promote transgenderism that are passed on to future generations, then most if not all of us would have parents or grandparents who showed signs of transgenderism -- I think Daphne made a similar point. Similarly, our kids or grandkids should show signs of TG -- do they? We certainly have had numerous posts about our kids's acceptance or not of our CD'ing to indicate the contrary. Anybody care to care to comment from their experience? As far as I know (which may be not much), there is not much evidence for this, but I'm willing to be enlightened. Gay kids do not generally have gay parents (or gay children), and transexuals generally do not have TG parents. So if our worry is that our "condition" will be passed on to our kids, I think our wives and girl friends need not worry, to address Katey's question.

This is NOT to say that TG / CD (or TS or gayness ) does not have a genetic basis. I think there have been studies showing that TS individuals have brains that have similarities to those of their opposite birth gender. True, most of the responses of what our bodies do are controlled by genes (even hormonal responses), including development in the womb (possibly explaining the TS brain question) and thereafter. There are what are called "epigenetic" effects, in which environmental influences control what genes do and in some cases these effects have been shown to be heritable. I myself believe that my TG'ism (and perhaps the effects on TS individuals) resulted from hormonal exposure in the womb, and as I and others have written elsewhere, this experience pre-conditioned me to identify with my female side (if that is what I am doing). Personally, accepting that has helped me to overcome guilt and angst about CD'ing.

So, yes, this is the old nature-nurture argument, which studies of epigenetics have show is not always a clear-cut issue. There should be some serious scientific studies of this, perhaps using identical twins -- studies of them have shed much light on the nature-nurture issue. Thus endeth the lecture.

Speaking of TG, Claire needs to sleep off her TG dinner...

I don't know much about Biology as I dropped it at 16 but is it not possible that the gene could be recessive?

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Originally Posted by Claire Cook

... this experience pre-conditioned me to identify with my female side (if that is what I am doing)...

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Interesting point. How would anyone ever really know if it is a female side you're identifying with? Maybe females feel nothing like crossdressers, and vice versa, and this could just be a standard male feeling? Or a human one? Argh, this hurts my head! :)

Back to Kateys fascinating question, the only other thing I might ponder as a newbie wife contemplating having children with a crossdresser (if we're assuming the genes are hereditary) is how much happiness have y'all found being TG? Is it something most here would choose if given that option? Or, if we're being brutally honest, would you prefer you were not born this way?

The answers to these questions, especially coming from a prospective partner, would likely help sway me one way or the other as no mother desires a hard life for her children. But as Adina mentioned, it would also be pretty shallow to forgo a desired relationship because one partner had a relatively minor condition. Crossdressing, when managed well, should be a minor issue.

Still...I'm curious as to how many here would have wished these genes on themselves?

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Originally Posted by Claire Cook

This is NOT to say that TG / CD (or TS or gayness ) does not have a genetic basis. I think there have been studies showing that TS individuals have brains that have similarities to those of their opposite birth gender. .

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Some do have brains which work more like the opposite sex, but almost as many do not, which screws up that theory. Then of course, there are GG's that have brains wired like mens', but have no masculine behavior at all, and vice versa.
One of the biggest problems is, that many things about us are influenced by more than one gene. So this search suffers from the same thing as the concept that there is only one cause of crossdressing. Just when you think you found it, whoops, here comes an example that disproves your theory and you're back to square one.

Hi,

It all starts at conception and our program is started then not some time later ,
Are we all male who are female or females who are male, well lets put it this way yes and no in our program it is set what we will be unless theres a miss match as iv said before as i am.

or a chemical imbalance due to added before birth or toxens or other man made chemicals while the baby is growing from conception or interbreding and theres any number of cause,s that we know more about now than say before i was born 67 years.

as an idear , from very young my body would react to some foods it was not a learned behavour or a told detail it was what i was born with, three foods i react straight off and go into sick mode apart from the smell,

now brain wise im hard wired and you all know how , was that a learned detail or a told detail or a born with detail , again you know my answer i did not think it or so acted on it because i wonted to, no, it was part of my make up in what i am ,

At conception gender is determined by chromosome characteristics and it will be the male or rather the males sperm that will dictate whether the baby will be a boy or a girl

prior to conception the unfertilized egg carries an X cromosome while the sperm can carry ether an X or a Y chromosome ,
The gender of the baby comes down to one simple event ,

If the sperm carring an X chromosome feritilzes the egg a girl will conceived

If the sperm carring a Y chromosome fertilzes the egg a boy will be conceived .

Going back to how im wired and how my body reacts to some food . could some like that be the same for how you react to clothes or well every thing we do , why seperate one detail and make that different form other things about us and what makes us the way we are,

you see some thing and like it i may see it and hate it , or you have a gift to be able to do something and i cant . or you cant play an instriment and i can, singing is another i can can you , are all those details learned or part of my or your makeup,

because we are all so different and how our bodys / minds works is it not true to say we are born with these gifts or what ever it may be. of cause we can lose sight of who we really are and not just be happy in who we are ,

we all so limit our selfs and hide or afraid to be who we are, yet we are born with so many neat detail,s about our selfs . yea ...okay ....

...noeleena...

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Originally Posted by noeleena

If the sperm carring an X chromosome feritilzes the egg a girl will conceived

If the sperm carring a Y chromosome fertilzes the egg a boy will be conceived .

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Nope. There are phenotype males with XX, and phenotype females with XY. And a whole assortment of others, too, as you know. Turns out you need to have the hormones turned on at the right times or what those genes are supposed to do, don't necessarily get done. http://www.isna.org/faq/y_chromosome

My father had a "gay period" in his life, and although I'm not gay I'm obviously TS. So that makes me wonder if my father was really a CD when no one understood CDing! And yes, it's probably hereditary.

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Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG

...Still...I'm curious as to how many here would have wished these genes on themselves?

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So Tink, I think you know I am firmly in the "it's genetic" camp. Now, imagine, even today, if you ask this same question to a gay person? Being gay is still not easy. Even today, people think it is a lifestyle choice! So, would a gay man or woman wish to be "gay" ? It is who they are and not a choice. And even though life would have been easier for them, I'll bet that being straight is not in the list of choices. I think it is no different for a cross dresser. It would be easier for me to not be a cross dresser but I am. Now, extending this analogy to gay children, if being gay was proven to be a hereditary trait (not just running in families) even predictable, would I take action so as to save this child from some future pain? For me the answer is no. I would love them no differently than I love my kids today and I would help them prepare for the future difficulties. I would help them get to place of understanding without shame and yet still live in the real world.

the only cross dressing regret I have is not being man enough to admit it to my wife sooner. Perhaps it took me years to become that man? Ironic for sure.

This may be the modern version of:
"Daddy, this is the man I want to marry."
"Young man, open your mouth so I can see your teeth".

I think that it may not be your DNA per say but rather how the genes are expressed. That is, you have 'normal' genes (don't bother even trying to go after that one!) but circumstances - either natal, birth order or otherwise - dictate which genes are expressed. As an example, boys with older brothers can have their testosterone levels reduced by chemicals left behind by the previous siblings.

Tinkerbell, to answer your question: yes, I would have wished them on myself. Couldn't imagine not being who I am.

I am praying that our need to cd is genetic. It would be wonderful to have a definitive answer to the groundswell of questions & concerns as to why I need to dress & look like a woman. The genetic link might also help our troubled wives to better understand why we need to dress. I'm not smart enough to figure out what the cause is, but certainly would feel better if the answer was indeed genetic. Thanks to all for making me think. Peace, mel

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Originally Posted by Rhian

I don't know much about Biology as I dropped it at 16 but is it not possible that the gene could be recessive?

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In simple Mendelian genetics this would be a great explanation but it isn't that simple. And that would mean that both parents carried the gene

Well one thing is for sure, you (Katey888) and I appear to be very similar as far as our CD tendencies are concerned, and we couldn't have all that similar backgrounds on nearly opposite sides of the globe.. (or did we?).
Anyway, my take is, who on god's green earth would opt to shave their entire bodies on a regular basis without some genetic predisposition? Let alone buy all that makeup? I'm only half joking here, because seriously, who would?
IMHO re LBGT people anywhere on the spectrum: Who would "choose" such a rocky path unless they had deep, innate, genetically defined preferences? And why, if they could, wouldn't they want to be considered stereotypically "normal"?
I always like to ask members of the "choice" crowd, if they think there was anything that could have happened to them growing up that would have turned them gay, because I'm pretty sure that wasn't possible for me!

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Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG

Still...I'm curious as to how many here would have wished these genes on themselves?

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You have to look on cross dressing as like any other hobby, if I didn't dress I probably wouldn't wish it on myself as it would hold no appeal but if someone offered me a pill to lose the urge to dress I'd turn it down as it gives me a genuine sense of enjoyment. Say there was a certain gene that gave people an interest in classical music I wouldn't wish I had the gene as I have no interest in it but if it was discovered there was a gene that gave people an interest in football I would of course wish it on myself as I have an interest in football; cross dressing is the same.

Lorileah but that could then explain why people CD when there is no sign of it in there family.

Rhian, nice explanation.

Hi , Sometime miss

I did allow for mismatch or hormones being mixed plus dont for get the other 15 or so and all the different types

Chromosome 18 abnormalities are caused by a change in a persons genetic makeup ,

There are 46 chromosomes and we have 23 pairs called autosomes the 23 pair is know as the sex chromosomes and determinea persons gender ,

Because the karyotype has an x and a y we know that it belongs to a male,
it was a print out of a male,s chromosomes chart, sorry cant redo that bit.

As i said a mismatch some women have males and some males have womens or it can be different yet again. heres one for you a person has no sex organs born with out so whats their karyotype im not sure i know its different , subject matter its very interesting and a lot more detail .

...noeleena...

Wow, a lot of active minds on this one. Good stuff here, I love the deep thinking threads.

I believe there is at least a hard wiring issue in our brains. It is there at birth, and some of us connect with it earlier than others due to our environment and life circumstances. Also due to how much of the "wiring " is on the feminine side.

I don't think it is something necessarily genetic in that it is passed down with any greater consistency. It is a random occurrence that some who are born of a certain gender will relate, identify with or just have some need or desire to be connected in some way with the opposite gender.

Well, my previous comment about twin studies got me to do some research. While I found no studies of crossdressing (per se) in twins, there have been a number of studies of "transgenderism" in both monozygotic (identical) and dizygotic (fraternal) twins, and in these cases "transgenderism" seems to mean "transexualism", or at least GID. There is a paper in the International Journal of Transgenderism (I didn't know that existed!) that summarizes the known case histories when at least one twin was transgendered. Some fascinating results. For identical twins born male (total of 39), in 13 pairs (33%) both twins transitioned, or at least identified as female, while in the other 26 only one did. For fraternal male twins, in only 1 of 21 cases did both identify as female, while in the other 20 only one did. The numbers for female identical twins were lower: there were 27 cases of at least one FtM transition, in 8 of which (23%) both transitioned. In none of the 15 female fraternal pairs did both individuals transition. Overall, both twins transitioned in 20% of the pairs studied. :whew!:

Now if you are still with me, (:yawn:) what does this mean for us? I think one thing that is clear is that a recessive gene is probably not involved, as some have suggested. If so, all, or at least a large majority, of identical twins (which would have the same genes) would have been TG. The author does conclude that there is likely a genetic basis for GID, but this does not mean that it is an inheritable trait. This does seem to cloud the issue of the effects of hormonal exposure in the womb. Shouldn't both individuals be exposed to the same hormones?

Bottom line: we shouldn't be concerned that because we are CD, our kids will be. And I still believe that my TG is something I was born with.

If anyone is interested, here is a link to the paper:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...2#.VHm4A9LF_Ss

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Originally Posted by Melissa in SE Tn

I am praying that our need to cd is genetic. It would be wonderful to have a definitive answer to the groundswell of questions & concerns as to why I need to dress & look like a woman. The genetic link might also help our troubled wives to better understand why we need to dress. I'm not smart enough to figure out what the cause is, but certainly would feel better if the answer was indeed genetic.

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Serial killers and child molesters are hoping for the same thing. That would explain what they do , and relieve them for any personal responsibility for their actions. They could come out of the shadows and openly do what they are driven to do by their genes, and the world will just have to deal with it. Be careful what you pray for.

I have found Milton Diamond to be unusually rational in his concepts. His article is also transcribed at:
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/ar...sexuality.html
I haven't read it yet.

Minerva.