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since joining iv been telling folks that i have a family member who is transgendered, some will ask who...i tell them it is a sister i never knew about until recently that mom gave up to catholic charity, they dont have to know its me....or that i do have a sibling which was given up......
beforehand it was an altogether different story, i felt shame and embarrassment and probably outed myself blushing about it.....
If these are decent people just immature maybe try something simple like friendly "be nice" or "that's not cool". It'll give them a pretty clear hint that those comments aren't ok with you. It's a lot harder to change anyone's mind so I'll let that one go until you're more comfortable in you situation.
^.^
Lorileah, you quoted me, but not my entire thought. I said if you are in the closet, your choices are either to do nothing and ignore the situation, OR making a general statement that makes your opinion known without drawing attention to yourself. The issue I see is, you have to respect the co-workers, and the workplace, while at the same time, the other co-workers have to have some respect for those around them. That comes down to what Launa just said ... you can't take a stand on every little comment, so is this the hill you want to die on?
Amy M. Jackson
All you need to say is "different strokes for different folks".
Or the next time your in a conversation where the gender issue pops up, just say " I bet he would look nice in that xxx dress" and smile. Everyone will think your joking because no one ever believes the truth anymore.
Bobbi
Guys have testosterone and very little of what they say has been though through! That's just being a young man with a ton of hormones and a deadly fear of being gay! Like Isha stated, guys call each other "ladies" in the military all the time. If you're complaining about something, you'll get referred to as a pussy. It's just "guy talk". It means nothing. Guys never say anything nice to one another. That's what girls do! LOL If they only knew. For those of us living in two different worlds, it's best not to mix them up.
This is just me, but in any setting...really, anywhere...when I hear this kind of thing about any group, I say something. Not aggressively or confrontationally. But I say something that at least indicates I disagree with the attitude and do not share it. I have never had a problem doing so (except with my brother in law..but...sheesh, thats a story in itself...lol). And usually it makes the aggresser stop and think, and at the same time allows the victim to know they have support.
I cant not do this. Sorry. Just me.
Anything you say can and will be used in evidence against you.
But it doesn't sound like the comments are referring to you- in which case, why would you invite their attention?
If I've misunderstood, and you are being targeted, it's decision time. Either take it, or don't. A short, sharp shock can do wonders- I'd wait till you get one of them alone then frighten the life out of him. But then I'm a confrontational sort of girl :)
Good advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
In most cases not only in our situation, it's best to not respond to any crticism or snide remarks. But sometimes I will.
I have a friend in the guy circle who can't seem to get enough of making homophobic gay put-downs. He's made me a target of his jokes.. I've told my other friends that it has become sickening and old and he has backed off. Now and then I'll just roll my eyes and ask him why he's so pre-occupoied with the subject. I don't think he knows about me.
There was a time he'd send emails and pictures of a gay nature. More than once I'd ask him in front of the others why he has such a big collection of gay porno in his files. I even said that I questioned his sexuality because he gets so many jollies from it. I'm not alone. He's badgered others, two who quit their jobs because of it.
Many times I ask if he's trying to tell us something, and I'll say it front of the others. It all works for me.
Cheryl
I think "Going with the flow..." is harmful to us. It certainly does no good. As cliche' as it may be, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men( or crossdressers) to do nothing."
Edmund Burke
And there are ways to draw attention to the issue without drawing attention to you. Simply take the "Company man" approach;
"Do you realize the potential problems you are opening you AND this company up to by talking like that? You could be forced to take some "Warm and Fuzzy interpersonal communication classes, loose your job AND/OR get yourself and the company sued! And thats easy stuff if they dont bring up Federal discrimination charges against you. What if the guy you just cracked that joke to was gay or transgender, and you didn't know it; do you think they are all limp- wristed, effeminate, or flamingly obvious?!?"
Using one of the wise-crackers as a potential target sort of disarms them from attacking you, it also gives you the chance to show that there are lots of people out there who may be one thing or another, and they never even know.
But also making it personal can work as well. But it can also backfire. People who are passionate about things, take a personal angle. But you can ask them, what if their child was gay or transgender? Of course you may still run into such a bigot that they would cast their child out into the world, and not think twice about it. Such was th case I had with a co-worker recently.
I'm really surprised by the "boys will be boys" and "let is slide" comments. To me, this is not about taking a position on cross dressing or transgenderism or even gay politics. It's simply putting forth what you believe: standing up for what's right. Ignoramuses need to know they are an ignoramus. If this was about a black person or someone in a wheelchair, would you even hesitate? I can tell the difference between guy talk, a joke, and hate. Edmund Burke was right.
The TV news magazine 20/20 does a "What would you do" segment. I am always shocked at those who do nothing.
THIS!!!I so wish we could upvote or like good posts around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Fully aware of what I quoted and still I have the question...why do you HAVE to be something to defend it? Closet or no...if someone insults or degrades anyone, you should make some sort of stand and since we are talking quotesQuote:
Originally Posted by amyjacks2014
I sort of get a little confused when people say "Hey my co-workers, family, friends all are racist bigoted people but I don't want to anger them" Change it a bit "My (whatever) says that the (blank) family are all perverts and morons" And you happen to be a member of that family. Now is that a hill? I don't understand how any member of any minority would stand and take another or their own minority being cat called or degraded. But that's me...you see I don't think anyone is better than anyone else. You let people get away with it they will expand it. You don't have to come out of the closet or out yourself. All you have to say is "That isn't nice and you really should be more compassionate and tolerant"Quote:
We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.-Benjamin Franklin
Not sure I can add too much here that's not been shared already but I've had a few experiences like it.
For starters, a good handful of my co-workers know about me and are completely accepting. We've worked together for a good 12 years before any of them knew anything and we'd become friends. When I did tell a few about it (using my over-the-top Nurse Costume, I found nothing but acceptance. It changed nothing.
There are a few there that do not know however. It has come up from time to time at company lunches, etc.... and honestly, I love it when it does.
I get this shit-eating grin on my face and just look at them as they talk. They're not rude mind you, they joke around, the usual stuff... and I just go along with it for the most part until I hear a comment such as "mentally ill" or something.
It's then, when I'll chime in. With a dead serious face, I'll ask them "How would you know? Do you know one?... Would you know one if you met one?"
I don't tip my hand at this point and haven't yet. But it always catches them off guard... and I love it.
If they only knew... that longest standing employee, the one that puts the face to the product they sell... is one. Yessir.
LOL
This actually happened to me not too long ago while I was at lunch with coworkers at a local pizza place. A transgender/crossdresser walked in with some friends and my coworkers made remarks like "he-she" and "queer." I have heard coworkers make similar remarks before but this was the first time someone was actually being attacked. I felt saddened yet enraged and my emotions boiled over a bit :Angry3:. I told them this person was a person and how is this bothering you? I went into a little other culture talk and pointed out the women wearing pants was once against society They stopped but I'm not sure if my little speech did anything when I wasn't around.
I used to be in the "let it slide" category but I wasn't happy with myself to be honest. Now, I speaking of straight-up attacks not passing insignificant comments and I have no problem with not speaking up and letting it slide as I understand it may be difficult especially in a job setting and worries of retaliation/potential outing. It's just the non-accepting world won't change...the tg/cd in the pizza place would go on being attacked if I didn't speak out a little. My hope is the small victories will pave the way to acceptance.
I learned a looooong time ago to never pass up an opportunity to keep quiet. This may be one of them.
Joni
Sadly, some people still do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink
I have to deal with this in my work and as a leader I have no problem with telling people that disrespect toward anyone is not acceptable. Doing so does not in any way "out" me.
Conversations that I've been a part of don't often turn to the subject of CDing or CDers (or TS or TG), but when they do, I've noticed a similar level of insensitivity. Most people in my and my SO's immediate lives do not know about my SO. Usually people treat it a joke although there might be one or two who are a little stronger in their opinions and express disapproval (men and women). I speak up and say that that people can't help being born the way they are so they shouldn't be made fun of.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_p
What is interesting is that I am always the only one speaking up and when I do, the others go silent. They don't recant, they don't apologize. Yet when my SO and I go out, most people are not disrespectful. I've often wondered about the contrast between how people behave in front of us, and what they say when they do not know that my partner expresses the feminine gender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Personally I think the two above responses are the best; make it "personal," or for someone who's utterly obnoxious, start impuning their sexuality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl Ann Owens
I’ve used both approaches in the past in relation to repeated homophobic rants… it usually works, or at least they stopped doing it when I'm within earshot! :heehee:
This is what is really disturbing. We all know what right is. I think the next step is to ask the silent others, "Do you disagree with me?" Make them commit to the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
In certain situations this may be prudent, but know your audience before you do this. Ask this question to the wrong group and you'll get a "Go away and take your Political Correctness with you!" response. Not only won't this do any good, it will actually encourage others to do the wrong thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Think how reluctant that we, card-carrying members of the LGBT community, are to confront those who are insensitive. Now imagine how someone who doesn't have a vested interest would react when given the "Are you with me or a'gin me?" ultimatum. If they want to stay in good with the guys they might not give the reaction you expect.
Sometimes silence is the best reaction we can expect.
Move across the country to a more accepting city and job.
Oh, wait, that's not a normal reaction? haha
Love where I work now. Conversation is very clean.
For those not so lucky, the "close to home" or "in your shoes" method seems like it would work well. Between friends and family, I have no problem correcting them, but it was always more difficult at work. There was a TS where I worked previously, and I heard some less than nice things behind her back.
Jackie,
Independent of being a "crossdresser / mildly transgender person" do you find it difficult, in general to state and defend a position for non-gender related issues at work, say in a meeting where a decision is required and there is no clear best decision. How about away from work? Some people just do not handle banter/confrontation well. Some people are just shy or lack self confidence. Check out your local Toast Masters or local library for books on how to handle difficult people.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_p
When I have seen people defend others, in a non-personal, confrontational manner, I believe most people gain respect for the person doing the defending.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackie_p
Try a little redirection. Boys/gentlemen, your bantering, really put downs, is really a mild form of bullying. It may seem like harmless fun, but it does take its toll on people over time. We all have to work together, now and/or in the future. Mutual respect is part of the company culture and it is taken seriously here. We don't need anyone going postal.
Have a nice day!
Am I the only person seeing this as a simple feminist issue? These guys are exercising male privilege, call them out on it! Why does it have to be about TG folk? Why can't it be about how men still control 90% of our society, and THAT'S WRONG.
Huh?
This isn't a trans issue, it's a feminist issue. Approach it accordingly. If women are truly equal, there should be nothing at all wrong with men wearing women's clothes, and therefore no humor to be derived from it.
even a feminist would say she doesn't want HER boyfriend wearing yoga pants!
even going as far as calling it Creepy or DISGUSTING!
yes they get away with it!
somehow!