Your perceptions of what is female privilege

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Originally Posted by Krisi

The way the post is worded shows some definite bias so I don't expect replies will be taken seriously.

People often use terms such as "male privilege" and "female privilege" when trying to cast themselves as "victims" to explain their lack of success in life. The truth is that both sexes have (or do not have) "privilege" and it balances out pretty well in real life.

As long as a person (or a group of people) continue to paint themselves as victims and blame "privilege" (of others) for their own lack of success, they will continue to be unsuccessful in life.

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True, I don't take your opinion on this matter seriously, Krisi. Because its not serious. The way you are tying to put me down, and the entire thread itself, well, speaks a lot of how much you don't want to see that sexism is still at large on the whole planet.

So, in your opinion being successful in life is a matter of blaming others or not.

I can then assume the situation of the poor is stalled because they keep blaming the rich.

I can then assume that financial powers (multinational corporations, banks, etc. Wall Street for an example you'll understand) do not abuse citizens their money and rights to make themselves even richer and in power, and it is this way because citizens who see this blame them and thus, their lifes are not as successful for this very reason.

Yes sure, okay...

How do you expect me to take your words seriously, when its obvious rights are gained by pointing out abuses in society, and identifying who is commiting them is the VERY FIRST step?

So in your criteria, Southern Europe is poor because they blame Angela Merkel, right?

An example you'll understand more... Cuba must be poor because they blame the US, and not because they have been blockaded for years and years by the US.

Come on... you can't be really saying this.

If females never ever pointed out sexism and fought against it, they would still be treated as livestock.

Oh and by the way, don't tell me I'm putting you down because I'm not. On the other hand, your post did put down me and this entire thread as I remarked in first paragraph...

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Originally Posted by franlee

The one thing that jumps out to me a Privileged that fits or is note worthy in the CD world is they can dress in any clothes of male or female designation without scrutiny and even encouraged. It is not the doing it but the acceptance from the public that I consider a privilege. We have the same right just not so readily accepted

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That one is on the top of my list I think, does it imply (as many have suggested here AND elsewhere) that men behaving as women is 'downgrading' but women behaving as men is 'upgrading'? Are 'we' not 'there' yet, maybe not? 😐

The clothing "privilege" card. Gotta love it. So it's a privilege to wear a suit and tie OR a dress?

No one except your fear of society has said you can't do the same. 70 years ago, women stood up and fought the males to gain a "privilege" man gave up 300 years ago. It always amazes me when people here complain about clothing rights and then don't DO anything about it. Kristi is correct, you make yourselves victims. It's not a female privilege to wear slacks or ties or jockeys....it is what they do. They worked for that.

Come on, gimme something I can use so I can say "I'm transitioning because as a woman I can...." . Because honestly I don't see any privilege now.

Someone mentioned "Women's nights" which is really a marketing ploy to increase business...not female business MAN'S business because men come to meet or see women. Nice privilege, to be ogled and ht on. If a bar had men's night would you go? And why? Cheaper booze?

Most of what would have been considered women's privilege has gone away, because women didn't want it. They wanted equal not instead of. Women didn't have a vote one day to say...let's take away pants from men. No they were doing jobs that required pants or they were doing other things that skirts just didn't quite work well. Privilege is where you get something better for no reason except some attribute (usually physical) you have. Maybe female privilege is that they spend a lot less time fretting over things and they do something about it


Oh and the "acceptance" thing 50% of the world are men, if you want acceptance, you could start there. 99% of your male cohorts won't agree that dresses are a privilege

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Someone mentioned "Women's nights" which is really a marketing ploy to increase business...not female business MAN'S business because men come to meet or see women. Nice privilege, to be ogled and ht on.

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It's nice for people who do want to be ogled and hit on. :)

At the Magic Castle there is a small theater for close-up magic. It has 22 seats and room for another eight people to stand at the ends of each row. Several times when I have been one of the last to enter the room all the seats were filled and so I walked to one of the standing position. Every time I've been in that situation a gentleman has stood and graciously offered me his seat.

Female Privilege, old style! :)

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Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn

dressing in whatever we want. True we can wear clothing of both genders and are less likely to be called out and judged for it, but we still get that and we have the whole **** shaming thing surrounding what we wear.

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And men get shamed if we aren't making as much money as others think we should. Like we're lazy or something just because we haven't gotten promoted. Newsflash; there aren't enough management positions for everyone to get promoted. We should be valued because we do a job and do it well. But women don't see it that way, we need to be 'ambitious' and 'get ahead' in the world be be considered desirable. So, women are valued for looks, men, for assets. Nothing new there. But the disparity of crossing the gender lines we know is way worse for any male.

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We get called b****y for being assertive and blamed for meekness, but i think that has more to do with how we blame people being stepped on as a society (it happens to men who are "meek" too)

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Yup. A man MUST fight every challenge or he's a wimp/pu$$y/chicken etc., no matter if we're guaranteed to lose or die, we're still expected to fight every single time (and every crossdresser is considered a potential coward because it's assumed we want to take the submissive female role sexually therefore we might be submissive in a confrontation, so we're automatically put into the 'undesirable' group). Lose lose situation. But we're stuck with it. Women always say that psychological pain of being insulted is way worse than physical of being beaten. Well, most of you haven't been on the side of being beaten up regularly. Boys are taught to fight back no matter if the end result is already known that we will lose and be badly hurt....and then go back and fight again the next day. For, not all bullies follow the adults idea that they must respect a lesser male if he fights back. Lots of them just enjoy beating us up again and again. Eventually we just accept being hit, and/or try our best to avoid any place where we might be caught by the bully. Another no win situation that girls rarely face. As far as psychological bullying? Try being a boy who won't fight and being known as a sissy/pansy/pu$$y/wu$$y/chicken and referred to or even called that by most everyone in the school. See how that compares to a girl being left out of a popular clique. Both result in social isolation. But the former also results in physical punishment as well.

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The suicide example I know is heartfelt, but the mortality rate for men is partly because they tend to choose more lethal methods which results in more completed suicides while women tend to have fewer completed suicides and a higher attempt rate due to less lethal methods.

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Partly, but mostly because men don't use attempting suicide as a cry for help. We just do it. We're not allowed to ask for help, again, because that would make us be seen as weak. And men are not allowed to be weak. We must be strong, or die. So, we die.

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The screening for suicide is definitely not sufficient to help older men

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Or younger men, or teen males. It's hard to 'screen' for suicide. Most men simply won't admit to it even if they're considering it. Almost always, the first clue anyone sees, is when someone finds us dead.

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Another big difference I think is also valid surrounds victimization and sexual abuse. Males are taken less seriously when reporting domestic abuse, rape, stalking, etc. As a society we don't handle these situations well to start, but men get less help here.

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MAY GET LESS HELP???? We don't get help at all. People MIGHT feel sorry for us, but also lose all respect for us as well. It's another lose lose situation for men. As we're supposed to be responsible for ourselves, if we're taken advantage of in any way, at any age, it's usually taken as an indication of bad judgement or weakness, so it's assumed to be our fault. When I was a kid, I was molested for many years; you can't imagine how many people suggest that either I must have liked it to let it go on that long, or that I should have either: 1. fought the guy molesting me (yeah, right, he was almost 7 years older than me), or 2. Report it to my parents/teachers/police. They conveniently forget that as a kid most have already been punished for things we weren't responsible for, so saying anything would be like admitting I had something to do with it and so we fear being punished again, so we just keep quiet. Reporting it to anyone later on as an adult is also a lose lose situation. One, any conviction is unlikely because they're going to want to know why I waited so long (just look at how all the Cosby complainents were put therough the ringer as if it was their fault at first), and two, again it's admitting to allowing something like that to happen which everyone sees as a weakness on our part. Women abhor weak men. Sure, some of you may feel sorry for us, but any chance of sexual attraction to us is forever gone. So there's no up side to telling about it. And I don't see that changing any time soon. While women, on the other hand, are also felt sorry for, but it doesn't keep men from being attracted to you. Some few will see a sexually molested/assaulted female as 'damaged goods', but most men don't. You still have a chance at another relationship. We have, well, nothing.

Want more? Besides all the aforementioned items, and those that you can look up on websites mentioned, here's a few I didn't mention in the other thread.
Boys are expected to just know how to do social things, and just know about sex. Nobody tells us anything. We're supposed to know how to ask you out, how to find a good restaurant, which movie/play/ show is good, which wines are good, how much to tip and who to tip, not to mention, if the date doesn't go well, we're the ones automatically at fault. We're supposed to know how to lead in dancing, again supposedly by some type of divine intervention, because we have nobody to tell us, and again, ask some guys how they'd feel about asking how to dance, and who could we possibly ask? I asked my older sister, and was made fun of it for years. At 25, I paid to go to a dancing studio to learn. But as a teen, there was simply no way. And if you didn't know, everybody made fun of us. So it's no wonder at all why boys don't want to dance. If we don't know, we look stupid and everybod makes fun of us. If we do, then all the boys poke fun at us and ask us if we're going to be wearing a tutu soon. No win situation. Same with sex; we're just supposed to know when you're ready to kiss, when we can touch you where, when you're ready to move to the next phase of sex, how to position ourselves and you, how and when to use condoms (and which condoms to buy but that's another whole horror story there are no 'small' or 'medium' condoms (as if anyone would dare be caught having one of either of those sizes EVER, just huge, jumbo and super collosal), because women don't want to be asked anything during a romantic episode. You want us to 'just know'. As if we have ESP or something. Then if the sex doesn't go well, again we're automatically at fault. If a guy overhears a woman complaining that her boyfriend is bad in bed, the guy thinks, 'well, I could certainly satisfy her, her boyfriend must be a jerk'. And her girlfriend will think, 'boy, her boyfriend was sure insensitive, he didn't do anything right'. It's never the girl's fault in sex, ever. You don't have to be good, you just have to be there. And there's simply no female shame equivalent to erectile dysfunction; if you're not excited enough, again, it's always presumed to be our fault. And If we can't 'perform', well, it's automatically assumed again that there must be something wrong with us.
And while there are plenty of men who gladly date slender women even to the point of being flat chested, there are no women who will openly admit to wanting a guy with a tiny penis. So there are lots of very nice men with good jobs, and good manners, out there who don't even ask for dates. They just give up.
Oh and we're also held responsible for all women's safety, never the other way around; if we see a woman being attacked, we're expected to intervene even if it's likely that we'll get killed. You face no such obligation. Not to mention the 'women and children first' in ANY life threatening situation. Hostages? Let the women and children go. Fire? Women and children out first. That type of thing just goes on, and on, and on. If you're a woman, it's often thought that men get a free pass at some things. This is just to remind you that you also get a free pass at a lot of things. You just don't notice it, because you're told from the day you're born that in all those situations men should defer to you just because it's the right thing to do. Really? Who made up that rule? Nobody, that's who. Historically, a society needed more women than men, because one man could impregnate 100 women and you get 100 babies. But one woman and 100 men only give you one baby to keep the society going. That situation is long gone, but the premise is still supported by women today, and probably always will be, because nobody is willing to give up a great advantage 'just because it's fair'. Women aren't any more likely to do that either.
Then you're also taught that a man should always give up his seat in public for a woman as well, because again, you're taught that 'it's the right thing to do'.

The above are just some things that I think were left out in previous posts here and/or the other privilege thread.

Hi Ezekiel,

I am going to take a different approach to answering your question and flavor my impression of "female privilege" in comparison to what I perceive (folks noticed "I perceive") as "male privilege". To be honest it is all in how one defines privilege IMHO. If you perceive something as unfair/unjust then you are likely to perceive it as a privilege. For example if you think "women can wear pants and nobody says anything but heaven forbid if I wear a skirt" then you will see that as a privilege denied you. However, is it really a privilege denied? Men can wear skirts, dresses, breast forms or whatever and while some may think it is strange, some may shake their heads . . . many folks her do this everyday and society has not collapse or enforced laws which says "men shall not". Yes, I know the counter argument is "Well if I wear a dress to work I will be fired or loose my job but a woman can wear a suit and no issues". Okay, that may hold a kernel of truth depending on the business but remember the woman is not wearing a man's suit but a woman's suit. This is fashion folks and women have managed to take male fashion and make it their own. If you truly want to have the right to wear a dress to work, then talk to your HR folks and see where they stand . . . you never know, or start a new fashion craze, claim Scottish heritage and wear a kilt. I am not being facetious before anyone takes offence (and sorry if I have offended you) but IMHO the clothing card is a red herring particular to our demographic . . . men who enjoying wearing women's clothing and this makes gender specific clothing choice a TG rights thing not a female privilege. I would pose this question to those who think this way. If TG rights were engrained in such a way that you could wear stereotypical women's clothing (dresses, skirts, whatever) anywhere and nobody could fire you or discriminate against you, would you? If your answer is "yes" then the only way to achieve this is through educating the masses that being TG is okay and that will take time. However it is not a female privilege IMHO.

So to me, privilege in this context is something endemic which gives one group an advantage over the other such that they enjoy a better existence and the other group either cannot attain or has to fight tooth and nail to do so. In this instance I cannot see female privilege. Again, people are making this personal "I never got to do this or that while growing up".

While women may have "women's only gyms" it is a Reine indicated for a specific reason not a privilege . . . it is not a privilege to have men leer at you while you try to work out . . . be honest, we have all done it. If men didn't do this then chances are it would not be an issue. WRT to women getting custody easier . . . yes it is probable courts all things equal the courts will grant custody to the mother but there is normally a shared custody agreement in place it is not a matter of "you are the mom so you make all the rules when it comes to the father seeing the children". Normally if one parent is granted limited or no custodial rights . . . there is a reason. Woman won't get drafted . . . I really cannot speak to that as we don't have the draft in Canada but women have been in combat roles, have gone to war and died along side their brothers in arms here in Canada.

I am sorry, I just don't see the same type of privilege examples comparative to things that make it easier to be a guy and again I am not saying men have everything handed to them on a silver platter or don't work hard. However, we (yes not all) get a certain amount of instant respect in the workplace (yes it is job dependent) that women have to work twice as hard for. I used an example on another thread in that a woman who was a very good soldier and physically strong on a training course was seen as "Wow, she's pretty strong for a girl" even though she was stronger then quite a few male candidates. Nobody on the training cadre remarked "Wow, he's pretty strong for a guy". We can beat the comparative stories to death, glass ceilings, wage inequities, credibility but again IMHO there is no comparison of perks that women get which can be compared to what men get, again not personal just a societal fact. Having someone hold the door open for you, getting to wear a dress, having a ladies night, and so on are not privileges which disadvantage one group (men) over another group (women) they are just societal niceties left over from a bygone era which do not give women a financial or societal advantage. Heck, I can pee standing up should I choose but it is not a privilege it is just a matter of anatomy. :)

Cheers

Isha

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

But women don't see it that way, we need to be 'ambitious' and 'get ahead' in the world be be considered desirable. So, women are valued for looks, men, for assets. Nothing new there.

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Having worked in public accounting in the past, which I recently left, I can say that more and more women are the breadwinners in the family. Also, I do not see these guys facing any shame. I have seen many women who are attracted to losers, and personally I think what do they see in this person. Often, it seems, both men and women come up with a version of their ideal mate, but find that person does not exist. So, they end up making compramises. Kind of like buying a house or a condo.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Yup. A man MUST fight every challenge or he's a wimp/pu$$y/chicken etc., no matter if we're guaranteed to lose or die, we're still expected to fight every single time

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Often times walking away is a much better option. There is no law that you have to fight every challenge. What other people think is often not important. If you see someone in danger the best idea is to call the police.

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Originally Posted by grace7777

Having worked in public accounting in the past, which I recently left, I can say that more and more women are the breadwinners in the family. Also, I do not see these guys facing any shame.

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Perhaps not to you. But most women still expect a man to make more than she does, and other men usually do as well. Unless of course, they're in the same position of having their own wife make more than they do.

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I have seen many women who are attracted to losers

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Women are drawn to alpha male behavior and appearances during ovulation. Later they are attracted to men who will make better fathers. There is a subliminal connection to being a 'bad boy' to alpha behavior, and some women will have their maternal instincts kick in to be interested in even the biggest loser; if she does at the right part of her hormonal cycle, that can explain the attraction. If he gets to copulate with her, post orgasm bonding hormones are released making her want to be with him, even once she knows he's a bad choice. Most people don't understand it, and just like to call it 'chemistry'. How many times have you heard a woman admit that a guy's no good for her but she says 'I know, but I love him'. Doesn't make sense to the uneducated observer, but it is a predictable behavior on the part of both people involved.

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Often times walking away is a much better option. There is no law that you have to fight every challenge. What other people think is often not important. If you see someone in danger the best idea is to call the police.

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You don't always have the option to 'just walk away'. And if you continually back down from every type of challenge, most people will assume that there must be some valid reason why. If a woman, say, outside an ATM with her children is fighting with a man and won't relinquish her purse, and you just stand there and phone for the police, and she winds up hurt or dead, how do you think the rest of the world will think of you when the police arrive ten minutes later? As the children cry, 'He just stood there! And did nothing!' You'd really do that? You've been brought up way differently than I was.

Ezekiel, you proved my point in your second post. Your thread was started not to ask a question but to push an agenda. I'm not going to waste my time replying because you have already made up your mind and simple truth and logic is obviously not going to change it.

Go put your bra on, you'll feel better.

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I am going to take a different approach to answering your question and flavor my impression of "female privilege" in comparison to what I perceive (folks noticed "I perceive") as "male privilege". To be honest it is all in how one defines privilege IMHO. If you perceive something as unfair/unjust then you are likely to perceive it as a privilege

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Yes, privilege is subjective. For some people being passive, submissive, doing everything their partner demands to them, esentially being their slave, etc, might be the best. But this is not the case for majority, and people generally does not want things enforced to them. People demands equality.

When there is a big inequality, such as when people in Africa is dying of famine and people in the US or Northern Europe is not, we can say that the second are privileged.

Equality for all, is freedom for all.

It means the one who is willingly a slave to their partner will be as happy as the one who does not want this enforced to her/him.

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Perhaps not to you. But most women still expect a man to make more than she does, and other men usually do as well. Unless of course, they're in the same position of having their own wife make more than they do.

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This must be a generational gap, because today women do not expect you to gain more then them. Heck, I'd say some of them they will even compete with you on this.

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Women are drawn to alpha male behavior and appearances during ovulation. Later they are attracted to men who will make better fathers. There is a subliminal connection to being a 'bad boy' to alpha behavior, and some women will have their maternal instincts kick in to be interested in even the biggest loser; if she does at the right part of her hormonal cycle, that can explain the attraction. If he gets to copulate with her, post orgasm bonding hormones are released making her want to be with him, even once she knows he's a bad choice. Most people don't understand it, and just like to call it 'chemistry'. How many times have you heard a woman admit that a guy's no good for her but she says 'I know, but I love him'. Doesn't make sense to the uneducated observer, but it is a predictable behavior on the part of both people involved.

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Well for some girls this might be the case, but certainly not for all, and probably not the majority. I don't know how old are you, but this might be another generational gap, Im not sure, but I can't relate to your experience.

Women of my generation, most I know, certainly do not seek "bad boy" behavior, and are not attracted to such types sexually. I can't really have a decent opinion on this since I really have no idea, but the people I know do not seek "alpha bad boy" types.

A good example that comes to mind, that is not my generation but worth of talking about... Check out Tokio Hotel and check out how many fans they have, and how their demography is almost all young females.

Certainly, they don't look like your typical "alpha" you are talking about. And I'm damn sure the fangirls are sexually obssesed with them.

So sure there are girls that like the bad boys, but not all of them.

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Ezekiel, you proved my point in your second post. Your thread was started not to ask a question but to push an agenda. I'm not going to waste my time replying because you have already made up your mind and simple truth and logic is obviously not going to change it.

Go put your bra on, you'll feel better.

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You are free to think whatever you want Krisi... I am not going to judge you. My intention with this thread is to make comparisons, to know what they exactly perceive as female privilege, and make people see that what they call female privilege is not as big as male privilege.

So yes, thats the agenda here. Voicing and pointing that there is an established inequality is the agenda.

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Originally Posted by Ezekiel

I can't really have a decent opinion on this since I really have no idea

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Hmmm, I guess that would explain a lot of things.

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Hmmm, I guess that would explain a lot of things.

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And this remark of yours explains a whole lot more about you.

It's been awhile since I have been on this forum. I used to spend a lot of time here but dwindled off because it seemed like a lot of topics were just constant repeats. It's interesting because I came here today with this very topic on my mind and how it relates to my CDing. I actually came to this forum today purposely seeking this kind of topic. I have been watching youtube videos on MGTOW which stands for "men going their own way" and also videos on feminism. MGTOW is basically the idea that men are doing their own thing, pursuing the kind of life they want without the influence of females in their life. I find myself wanting to have less and less to do with women, feeling demonized as a male. Male shame has become abundant, we are not allowed to have issues, rights or a voice without male shaming happening. It has made me wonder, on a much deeper level if my CDing is far more deep rooted than I previously believed. I have also noticed that it seems like CDing and young men emulating females is exploding. I'm also reflecting on how drastically different the CDing scene is from 12 - 15 years ago and how rapidly culture seems to be shifting overall because of how fast technology is advancing. I know for me, CDing is one way that I go my own way. And in a sense, seems to be swapping or substituting femininity in my life. I don't want to ask a girl to put on a cute dress and some heels in fear that she will label me as a pervert and potential rapist.

Are women privileged? Very much so. In the same way they have free reign of both closets, she has free reign in societies proverbial closets, she can have it anyway that she wants while men cannot. I see these videos of females saying they are oppressed while broadcasting on their $2,000 mac computers and their princess canopy bed in the background. I watched a video where Emma Watson claimed that because women aren't "encouraged enough" to get a higher degree, it equates to oppression. Many US universities are reporting that as much as 2/3's of their student body is female and yet the feminists still hold rallies about oppression on the same campuses. Feminists want all the perks and none of the draw backs when it comes to "equality." When they demand that all females are required to register for the selective services at age 18, I'll be more likely to support them. And as a side note, men are drastically more likely (especially crossdressing ones) to be accosted and victimized by a stranger than a woman. The rates of physical violence against males is astronomically higher than females but I don't hear them screaming about creating equality in that area. Personally, I am done with females getting treated like princesses and then complaining about being oppressed. Ultimately, victim stances don't empower anybody. I don't feel safe walking down certain streets either, I can either complain about it or I can get a stun gun and learn to defend myself.

While considering female privilege, I wonder if more and more young men are emulating females in order to regain power? I wonder if they are doing it more and more to escape the demonized role that men have acquired? Not that I have issue with it, of course; It's just becoming a fascinating dynamic for me to watch unfold. Perhaps in a sense, by putting on makeup, a dress and high heels, males are trying to communicate, hey don't hate me, I'm one of you. Are more and more younger males CDing as a way to wave the white flag? "Don't shoot, I'm one of you."

Personally, I don't like black and white, I don't like rigid roles and so I support those that want to express their femininity in this way, I do it and I love it. And on the topic of MGTOW, I like to encourage men to go their own way, whatever that looks like. I think we need to give women the gift of missing us since I keep hearing feminists say that we are obsolete and expendable. Put on a dress and ride a motorcycle. Whether you identify with male ore female, you have a voice, don't be ashamed of it. And lastly, I want to encourage young males to not cave into the pressure of marriage. You gain nothing and could potentially lose everything.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

You don't always have the option to 'just walk away'. And if you continually back down from every type of challenge, most people will assume that there must be some valid reason why. If a woman, say, outside an ATM with her children is fighting with a man and won't relinquish her purse, and you just stand there and phone for the police, and she winds up hurt or dead, how do you think the rest of the world will think of you when the police arrive ten minutes later? As the children cry, 'He just stood there! And did nothing!' You'd really do that? You've been brought up way differently than I was.

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There are times that you are attacked and there is no choice but to fight, so you defend yourself to the best of your ability. Other than that, most situations can be defused or deescalated. Female police officers, studies have shown are less likely to be involved in fights with suspect than male officers because they seek to deescalate the situation. It is male ego that causes a lot of problems and makes situations worse than they needed to be.

In your situation if a woman is attacked at an atm machine with her children around, what do you do. The attacker is a person who needs to be off the streets and in jail. I will do what I can to get them there. By the way, calling the police is doing something. A lot of people, both male and female would do absolutely nothing. Also if possible I get a description of him and if possible with my cell phone get a picture. These steps can help the police capture the attacker and get a conviction, so this person stays in Jail. Also, I am not a good fighter. Police departments around the country I am sure would support my actions. Every situation is different, so what I do depends on the situation and how I assess it. My ultimate goal in the situation is the safety of the victim.

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Originally Posted by grace7777

There are times that you are attacked and there is no choice but to fight, so you defend yourself to the best of your ability.

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Exactly what I wrote.

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Other than that, most situations can be defused or deescalated.

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I didn't refer to those situations.

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Female police officers, studies have shown are less likely to be involved in fights with suspect than male officers because they seek to deescalate the situation.

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Perhaps also because their male partner steps in as soon as it appears there's going to be an altercation? It's a natural response.

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It is male ego that causes a lot of problems and makes situations worse than they needed to be.

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With that I agree.

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The attacker is a person who needs to be off the streets and in jail. I will do what I can to get them there.

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Yup. You'll do it from a distance. Because it's safe there. You can still run away faster. And, after she's dead they MIGHT put him away if they ever catch him, because you'll give them an accurate description, standing out of the way of any danger.

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A lot of people, both male and female would do absolutely nothing.

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And you're saying that's the right thing to do: Nothing. And that's what's wrong with this country; nobody wants to help anyone else. They expect somebody else to do it.

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Also if possible I get a description of him and if possible with my cell phone get a picture. These steps can help the police capture the attacker and get a conviction, so this person stays in Jail.

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Right, after she's dead. That way you can hopefully get a 3 year sentence as her kid loses her mom.

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Also, I am not a good fighter. Police departments around the country I am sure would support my actions.

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Of course. Just ask Bernard Goetz. The police policy is to do nothing and they will file a report. They don't want citizens doing anything. That doesn't make it right.

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My ultimate goal in the situation is the safety of the victim.

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No, your ultimate goal appears to be the safety of yourself. Because every hit that attacker makes on her could be the one that kills her, and you don't intend on even trying to stop it.
So lets change the scenario a bit; make it a bit more personal. It's your MOM at the ATM getting beaten by a mugger. Still going to stand at a distance and just watch? That story will go over very well at the funeral. 'I was watching at a safe distance while he killed mom, but I called the police and gave them a good description while he was doing it'. I'm sure your family would be proud of you for not getting involved.

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Originally Posted by Isha

While women may have "women's only gyms" it is a Reine indicated for a specific reason not a privilege . . . it is not a privilege to have men leer at you while you try to work out . . . be honest, we have all done it. If men didn't do this then chances are it would not be an issue.

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This touches on something that is fundamental IMO.

I don't think that most men will "leer" in a pervy sense, but men are most definitely attracted to a woman's body and you can't always hide the interest or the attraction. The sex drive is a powerful thing indeed (although it will not drive the majority of men in our culture to rape), and so it makes sense to have separate changing rooms in places where people who are not related congregate, like gyms. I think of it as a precautionary measure, to remove any temptation lest it get out of hand, although it might only go out of hand with a very small subset of men. In the middle east they take it much, much further by hiding women behind burkas at all times in public, but it's really the same thing. It basically works like:

1. Male is physically attracted to female --> He makes a move (that is deemed culturally acceptable) --> This sets of the female's attraction to the male (if she finds him attractive) ---> And if all systems are go, they have at it.
   
   
2. Trouble is, when all systems are NOT go (i.e. people are married, or a union is not advantageous socio-ecolomically), then people can potentially get into trouble if everyone is walking around naked. :)

But the bottom line is, if men (and any male of any other species) didn't have that drive, the species would not survive. It just seems weird to me that some members define the very natural and evolutionary dynamics between testosterone-driven-males who are attracted to estrogen-driven-females, as some type of "female privilege" that women lord over men. It simply is what it is at a basic, biological level and I think that men who see it as a female privilege do so because THEY want the female's sexual role. THEY see it as something unattainable and so they resent it? I should think that most men do not see a woman's sexual attractiveness as a privilege. It's just biology, something that he is attracted to and because of this, he might be willing to go through some hoops to get what he wants, depending on the situation. lol

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Originally Posted by ReineD

I think that men who see it as a female privilege do so because THEY want the female's sexual role. THEY see it as something unattainable and so they resent it? I should think that most men do not see a woman's sexual attractiveness as a privilege.

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Now that you mention it, and speaking of myself, I am attracted to dominating, assertive and strong women who make the move first and seem to be in charge. Passive and submissive women are not my type.

I don't know if im the only one here, but don't some crossdressers prefer to be submissive in a relationship? But hey this might get off topic...

Post #39 @Jill

Post #31 @SometimesMiss

fantastic postings!

people want to dismiss any valid thing a man says and go "wah wah you're just a male! the heck do YOU know?"

oh god!


at least that one dude admitted he didn't really even know what he was talking about!

it'll be interesting in the next 5 years (seeing how much it changed in the last 5!) how these things get worse and worse and more heated...

maybe some will soon realize the insanity that is spreading by so many faux-feminists and the male tumblrina Fermi duders who have no clue (no clue!)



also people talk so much about this or that for crappy guys or good godly women ... but I hear next to nothing about the weirdo / dorky / loser / loner guys... who just want to be nice and be loved but are awkward and don't know how to go about things.... they not only get the gift of a life of loneliness but the eternal shame of BEING viewed as a loser by all...

so to the idea of the "nice guy" who is a virgin and grows bitter and depressed and socially cut off on his computer... whose views are slammed and he "just needs to get laid!" ... and then is slammed for that whole nice guy / deranged pervert stalker-esk reputation...

it's madness!

pure & butter mad nasty!

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at least that one dude admitted he didn't really even know what he was talking about!

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Did you even know what I said for that I didn't really have decent information? I was talking about my experiences on women's taste of men!
Not about sexism! Wow incredible way of distorting my words and taking bits and bits to compose whatever interests you.

Sexism doesn't really need much proof because its out there and easy to see.

Indeed I know that sexism exists, and that patriarchy is there at large, and that you and others here only rant and whine that there is no such a thing and even talk about some non-existent big female privilege, which is in truth very small compared to the one males have.

By the way why are you so offensive in the way you are wording things?

it's not nearly as small as you and others like to think (pretend!)

oh god?

I've... seen... THINGS!


no one is TRULY pretending in this world that things aren't quite unfair to women as a whole... but things are getting much better

TOO better... it's like they want revenge?

they want all the groovy good side of being femme... but none of the bad sides

and to ignore the bad sides of deals for men and mock them / make them feel like crap?

what good does that do!

it makes a generation of dis-illusioned BITTER men growing up on the internet becoming MRAs with Fedoras and NeckBeards and Vaping and into My Little Pony etc!

has the whole world gone gray?

am I taking crazy pills or did someone dose me or is EVERYONE being dosed?

wake up people!

pull the sheep people's wool out from under your eyes and put on your lone wolf clothing!

ahhhh!

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Originally Posted by ReineD

. . . I should think that most men do not see a woman's sexual attractiveness as a privilege. It's just biology, something that he is attracted to and because of this, he might be willing to go through some hoops to get what he wants, depending on the situation. lol

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:confused: Umm . . . that is not what I implied Reine. You talked about separate women's gym facilities and I was responding with what I have seen (as a guy) and what my own wife has relayed to me . . . men leer and while it may not be in a pervy sense, it is still very uncomfortable for her . . . so I was not saying that men see a woman's sexual attractiveness as a privilege. Please don't misquote me . . . thanks :)

Cheers

Isha

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Originally Posted by Ezekiel

Yes, privilege is subjective. For some people being passive, submissive, doing everything their partner demands to them, esentially being their slave, etc, might be the best. But this is not the case for majority, and people generally does not want things enforced to them. People demands equality.

When there is a big inequality, such as when people in Africa is dying of famine and people in the US or Northern Europe is not, we can say that the second are privileged.

Equality for all, is freedom for all.

It means the one who is willingly a slave to their partner will be as happy as the one who does not want this enforced to her/him.

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C'est quoi ca? What the heck does this have to do with what I posted. Please read, I was on your side but it appears all you want to do is pick a fight with whomever posts in response to your opinion.

Isha

@sometimes_miss

That was a terrible thing that happened to you I am sorry that happened. I hope that you have been given the care and support needed after something like that.

To the meat of the discussion. I am seeing a lot of assumptions about the thoughts women have and women you describe are absolutely horrible people, but I can only think of one woman I know who thinks or acts this way and she gets shunned by other women for it (she's not allowed near any of my male friends or family members and my friends avoid the mes out of her. Giant narcissistic gold digger and stage 5 clinger on top of it). Why would anyone want to be in a relationship, let alone the same room as someone who thinks that way? I also think a lot of these are bound by generation. I am in my late 20's and can't assume anyone's age, but I certainly don't get on the train and expect a man to get up for me. I was raised to respect others and my legs work just fine so I have gotten up for older adults of any gender, people with disabilities, parents of any gender with kids, people who just look tired, you name it. I also make the same amount as my spouse and will be making more than him when I finish my doctorate at which point, assuming I don't kick him to the curb for reason unrelated to money, he wants to stay home with whatever children we have. It's a new world. There is no shame behind that.

I'd invite you to look back at my statement. I said men get LESS help when assaulted, not may not. It is a fact that they do not get the same level of care both from law enforcement and health care. Further I think you minimize the amount of bullying females do face. It is on par with males. For example (yes i know, anecdotes), a girl I went to school with had her belongings vandalized daily, was shoved, hit, had things thrown at her, verbally harassed, and finally was attacked with a golf club by another student. She was always on the quiet side, not many friends in any crowd popular or not, and turned out to be on the autism spectrum. While that wasn't a daily beating or getting called ridiculous names for not getting physical, it certain left a mark. Its not about the popular crowd. That's very much a stereotype of the adolescent life of a female. There are body images issues, sexual identity issues, fear of physical relationships, the list goes on. And its absolutely fair to say those apply to both sexes, making the topic a wash.

As far as suicide goes, males will make attempts as a cry for help has well. Most of these cries for help are more in line with self harm habits people use to get attention and hopefully have someone help. The intent and planning are equal once someone says they have a plan and intend to. That is not a contest. It is taken seriously in all cases. I also pointed to older men specifically because they are statistically at the highest risk of committing suicide. The entire section there was pointing to the fact that we see older man= grandpa= happy, and no one thinks to check, even after stressful life events like loss of a SO or home. Additionally, screening for suicide is difficult in that we are not with people everyday and every hour, but if you ask someone in a medical setting if they are having thoughts of suicide and self harm they are far more likely to tell you the truth than to lie about it. That is one of the reasons we screen people, a huge number of people (don't remember it off the top of my head) were seen by a primary care provider or in a hospital with a month of their suicide. We also screen more for depression and substance abuse more now than in the past for similar reasons. It lets us know something is up and we can intervene. Back to older men, we discount the fact that for generations men DID have to "suck it up" and couldn't be vulnerable. Many older men are still in this line, but it is changing for younger men. I'd hope that by the time I have children these disparities will be a thing of the past.

Things have to change when people want that change. Women did have to fight to get to where they are and some men fought alongside them. It's not an attack on men to seek progress. In a lot of ways that fight is making things more equal for men too. I agree with another poster. A privilege is what you make of it. Looking at things as disparities makes it easier to be black and white. It's not taking away from one group to help another when we address them and its easier to swallow for a lot of people.

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You talked about separate women's gym facilities and I was responding with what I have seen (as a guy) and what my own wife has relayed to me . . . men leer and while it may not be in a pervy sense, it is still very uncomfortable for her . .

Isha

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I also mentioned gyms. I think getting leered at is awful. Getting harassed when trying to work out is the worst. Even while wearing my engagement ring I have guys make Comments to me when I run.

There are some alpha male types at the gyms that think that type of aggressive behavior is okay. When I say no, don't start trying to correct my form, don't touch me, don't keep watching me, and please don't make grunting sounds. Like yeah, girl. Oh.

It's awful. I doubt that happens to men. I would love a female only gym.

Edit: also to others. Seriously. Mud slinging? Cant you all talk to each other without bashing each other? People are so strong behind a computer screen. If you wouldn't say it to your mother's face, mud slinging here is not appropriate either.

I also love the "I am not going to engage but I will post and get the last word posts" I am one of the youngest here, many of you need to grow up and learn how to speak to other human beings. Some of you are crushIng my faith in humanity today.

Greenie,

I agree with you about the gym with leering it is awful, I do my best to workout with a friend.