Who-I-am vs. What-I-like

ReineD it comes back to spectrums. There are men who crossdress as "something they do" and there are women in male bodies who need to transition. In between there are many of us who are a mix of both male and female in varying portions who happen to be in male bodies. For me i am mostly comfortable as a man but i am also part woman, therefore the woman in me is part of who I am. To transition is not a solution for me because i am not a woman in a mans body, i am a man and a woman in a mans body. Transitioning would leave me with the same problem in my new body. Again the proportion of male/female between the ends of this spectrum will vary with each individual, some will be mostly male, some will be mostly female, and some will be more half and half. This is how i understand gender.

Hi Reine,

Interesting thread. Well, I have flipped flopped across this field for some time since I arrived at this site. If you read older posts I was vehement about the fact I was first and foremost a guy, dude, bloke, man . . . etc. etc. (in my best Yul Brenner voice :)). Of course states of being when it comes to GID are never static until you arrive at where you are going. So now I can say with some clarity I am genetically a man who happens to know at times he is a woman irrespective of whether I am completely made up (wig, make-up, clothes) or standing there in all my maleness. The body may not be female but the mindset (at those times) is definitely a woman. Now to confuse you even more there are times when I do not feel like a woman at all and only see the man. Is this my end game? Not sure, I can only walk this path until it ends.

Cheers

Isha

Reine,

I think many crossdressers have some existential angst. A wise man once taught me that three questions are being asked here, and most people never get to Who Am I. That is an intrinsically difficult question that require serious reflection and meditation.

The first question is where am I. This is really what my situation is. I am married. I am an engineer. I go out dressed as a woman once a month, etc. This is easy to identify, but our situations do not entirely define our internal being. They have influence, or are the result of who we are, but don't really define us.

The second question is closer. How am I? This is how do I deal with life. How do I see life. How do I react. How do I treat others. How do I treat myself. It takes a while to honestly figure this out. How am I may or may not always reflect who I am, but over time can shift or greatly impact who I am. And if how I am is not in concert with who I am, we take great chances of creating a troubled sense of being, and risk serious emotional and psychological unhealth.

Who I am is far deeper, and may trancend the other two question. I found my answer is that even at 50 I am Someone's child, and the other part is the meaning of my male name. Those who know me well, and are scholarly can figure that one out.

Love,

Yes the term "presenting" as a woman or female is the most accurate for what I do, I believe I've used that term before in my threads and posts.

This thread is quite similar to one I've been meaning to post regarding the statement often seen here "Let me be me." When I see that, I wonder exactly what this "me" is.

Obviously, the members of this forum are quite varied in their lifestyles, mental state, age, health, age, etc. We often don't say enough about ourselves for other members to understand our feelings or give advice when asked.

To answer the original question, yes, I am a crossdresser but that's not all I am. Someone posted it above; I am a husband, a father, a grandfather, and a brother. I am also many other things. A woodworker, a boater, a photographer, a handyman, a neighbor and a friend.

For a long time I denied that I was a crossdresser, thinking it was just something I liked to do. Once I looked around and saw that I had hundred dollars worth of clothes and equipment, I finally admitted to being a "crossdresser". Still, that's only part of what I am.

I guess the easy answer for 'who I am' is that I am me, I am male and I am happy being so. However even though I like to present as a woman I also use it as a way to allow my feminine side to shine through, so I think they is some fluidity when it comes to crossdressing.

After much self analysis, and several months on a therapists couch, I have finally been able to admit what I am. It has been a long road of self acceptance. I have had to overcome my self-loathing, fear and guilt to get here. So when I say "this is who I am" what I mean is "I really am a woman". What I do (tuck the junk, pull on a skirt, put on my face etc) is just a imperfect way to show who I really am to world.

Before this realization, the phrase would mean "I am a femmy guy who needs to look like this for some reason".

Krisi kind if said it. Use part of "who I am" and the bases are covered

The English language doesn't clearly distinguish between "who I am" (identity) and "what I do" (hobbies, activities, relationships). I am a gamer and a scientist. I am also a bisexual and somewhat gender-variant or genderfluid individual who (mostly) identifies as a man and who happens to crossdress. For me, my CDing is more of 'what I do' than 'what I am', but at the same time that behaviour is also an expression of who I am. My gender identity is more male than female. I don't see myself as a woman and I don't have (much) dysphoria but there is some aspect or part of me that is more female/feminine, if that makes any sense (I'm still figuring it out myself!). I would like to be a woman but I'm not, and CDing helps that other part of me feel more comfortable.

For some people what they do is so important to them that it is an important or even critical part of their identity - it describes or summarizes them. For some people, CDing is what they do, for others it's what they are. I guess whether or not CD is an identity or 'a thing you do' is one of those fuzzy labels for which you often have to ask people exactly what they mean. For example, what do you mean when you say you are transgender - CD? TS? TV? bigender? androgynous? neutrois? Or bisexual - pansexual? heteroflexible? transoriented?

The way I see it is that I have a lot of interests that are generally regarded as feminine, but that does not make me female and I do not think of myself as female. For example, I wear makeup, nail polish and jewelry every chance i get, pretty much daily. Not every woman wears makeup, so I do not see this as a defining characteristic of being a woman. When I put on makeup, I am being myself just as a woman who puts on makeup is being herself. Hopefully that makes sense.

Reading through all of the responses I think the general pattern is one where "who I am" = a man who enjoys dressing as a woman, but the reasons for that enjoyment vary from person to person. For some it's the creative, artistic aspects, some it's the comfort or fashion aspects of women's clothing, and for some it's the expression of an inner feminine aspect to personality. Admittedly, addressing the question of "Who am I?" is difficult because identity is rather intangible and one can easily create a fictitious component to identity just through desire/wishful thinking. I think the most objective method to assessing one's identity is to measure it by what one does or doesn't do. For example, I can tell myself I am a marathon runner, but if I never train or participate in marathons then that identity is a lie. Conversely, if I wear dresses, wigs, make-up, etc., then by proof of action I am a cross dresser even if I don't want to admit it to myself (not that I ever had that problem myself).

Bridget

I'm 'complicated'.

I'm 50/50 girl/boy, 50/50 gay/straight, 50/50 Dad/Mom. I am willing to adjust those ratios based on who I am with as appropriate. Friends? They accept me and endlessly rib me over my girlyness. They love me, and I detect not an ounce of cruelty in that ribbing.

At the market? I'm sure I am confusing as hell.

Professionally? Incompatible. They want GIRL or BOY, and have a really hard time with middle ground.

At home? I'm the wife.

How much of this is personality? How much is clothing? How much is desire?

This whole journey is all about how we figure out who we are, and what praise or criticism we get is entirely dependent upon the audience.

- MM

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Originally Posted by ReineD

There are lots of things we all like to do, all kinds of preferences sexual and non-sexual that we all have, for things like what floats our boat in the bedroom, or different types of food, the type of art, music, books, movies, etc we enjoy, sports or other hobbies like collecting stuff we may be into, where we like to travel, and often we are passionate about these things and they are priorities in our lives, even collecting designer clothing and shoes. I suppose we could say that doing these things is who we are but if we use this language, then how do we differentiate in this forum between a preferred activity that makes us feel good and a fundamental gender identity?

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Does it help to keep in mind a distinction between gender identity and gender expression? Dressing for me isn't simply a preference for an activity. It's an expression of a feeling, a need to express a feminine aspect of my being. That does not alter my gender identity. I like lots of things. Expressing all of me, including my soft side, is who I am. It's not just another thing I like, like a book or TV show.

That this is who I am doesn't impinge on my gender identity. It does change, from time to time, my gender expression. It is more than what I like because it's an inextricable part of my personality.

Reine, I'm glad you posted this as I hear this all the time from my husband and was very confused by what is meant and seeing there are so may different answers hasn't clarified it fully, but makes me more comfortable in his inability to explain what this means. This is a very scary phrase for me to hear because the first thing I think is " who you want to go to bed as" from defining gender identity.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

I've personally played both sides of the "who I am vs. what I like" card, depending on what I wanted. When I was married, for years (decades) I was all about the who-I-am/born this way... in other words, I can't help it. It's not my fault. I have to do it.

I was way the hell out there, in crossdresser terms. Then came the day when my wife announced she could no longer tolerate being married to a woman. Then the furious backpedaling started. Suddenly I was trying to play the "It's just what I do" card. But, there was no convincing her. I had apparently done such a thorough job of convincing her that this was "the way I am" that it was impossible to undo.


For the most part, including in my own life, I think the "who I am" card is over played. It makes it seem less of a choice, therefore les of something we can be blamed for. Yet at the same time it's less of a matter of simply being "something I like" (thereby indicating that it's totally a matter of choice) than I indicated when I was doing my backpedaling.

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Rhonda, I found your answer pretty helpful actually even if you don't feel it answered the question. We have a bit of this too and there is a lot of back peddling (but then forward peddling) being done along with all the other nonsense between my husband and I. Your explanation is what I will roll with going forward and I thank you for that. :)

"Who I am", is a person who enjoys presenting female. I personally believe that this desire originates from a tangle of wiring in my brain that strongly resembles tangles of wiring found in female brains. I am not a woman, but I am similar to one in many ways. One of those ways is I like to feel pretty.

So I enjoy feeling pretty, yes. Because who I am is the kind of person who likes that. I can certainly forego dressing, but I can't stop feeling like I want to. Eventually that wears me down and it becomes more of a "need" at that point.

I don't see "who I am" and "what I like" as necessarily exclusive. Im Kinda surprised so many in this thread seem to?

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Originally Posted by Brenda.Clark

Does it help to keep in mind a distinction between gender identity and gender expression? Dressing for me isn't simply a preference for an activity. It's an expression of a feeling, a need to express a feminine aspect of my being. That does not alter my gender identity.

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Although I accept your and others' need for expression, it is difficult for me as a non-CD or non-trans individual to understand this. I also have a need to express the feminine aspect of my being, in that nothing would ever induce or convince me to portray myself as a man. It wouldn't even be a consideration for Halloween! lol. Admittedly my default expression is feminine, even without adornments or stereotypically feminine clothing, because I am a female. So no matter how I choose to present, whether it is in an old pair of jeans and torn Tshirt to paint the bathroom or getting all dressed up for a fancy wedding, I can say "this is who I am" and know that people do see me as a woman.

It's difficult for me to superimpose a person's gender from my mind because our sense of gender is THE primary building block of our identities. Yes, we are other things: fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, chefs, cooks, and bottle washers, but all these other things are add-ons. When I look at people, I automatically classify them based on their gender and age group. Right? If you see a person on the street and you are asked to describe them, the first thing you will say is either a man, woman, boy or girl. So when CDs who are presenting as women say "This is who I AM" as opposed to "This is how I am presenting" or "This is what I do", it is natural for an onlooker to deduce that they believe themselves to be the gender they are presenting.

My SO told me, years into our relationship, "I know I'm a guy". I was surprised to hear this. He likely took it for granted that I knew this, but I had no way of knowing it because I took it that he expressed himself as a woman out of a need to BE one. (Again ... for our TS members this does not apply to you).

So yeah. We may respect and accept that y'all have a need to do this, but it's hard to understand especially when CDs (not TSs) say, "This is who I am". We see a female presentation, and when it is accompanied by a statement that professes identity, we take it that the meaning is a female identity.

This post got longer than I wanted it to. :p

Thanks for all your responses! :)

It depends on what the meaning of "Is" Is ... right :-)

Sometimes we have to consider the fact that people say certain things and use certain phrases without having put deep thought into it. When someone here uses the phrase "This is who I am", it is possible that it is just thrown out there because it is a popular phrase, not because of some deep soul searching look inside that revealed that of all truths in the world, this is the most important one!

Quite often, in ordinary non-forum life, you will hear people say something with great determination, and if nothing is said to challenge it, it just passes and people may or may not even remember it. But, if you stop the conversation right there and ask them straight up what they meant by that, and if they could elaborate on it, then you will very often, maybe even more often than not, get a "well what I meant to say was ..." reply, that throws the original phrase out the window. It was just a great phrase that seemed a good choice at the time.

It is a little like when the school teacher wants you to analyse some writers text and there has to be some deep meaning behind it. But sometimes it just might be that it just sounded good in the story line! Or .. it rhymed with the previous line in the poem.

That said, I also agree with some of the comments here that phrases like "it is who I am" are used to divert guilt and perhaps to demand permission and/or acceptance. "This is not my fault ... It is who I am!", so in other words, Hey, I cant help it, live with it!
If it is a choice, then clearly we can also chose not to, but for many here, the problem is, we dont want to chose not to! We like this, for whatever reason, so being told to just un-chose it, is not a desirable option. Much easier if it is not a choice, and clearly, if "this is who I am" is true, then it cannot be a choice, so there .. not my fault!

Anyone who says "This is who I am" about any specific trait in their being, is clearly leaving out a number of other things they "are". It can be said to emphasize a specific part of ones being, to make a statement, but it is of course not the whole truth so maybe we should not read too much into it.

- Suzie

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Admittedly my default expression is feminine, even without adornments or stereotypically feminine clothing, because I am a female. So no matter how I choose to present, whether it is in an old pair of jeans and torn Tshirt to paint the bathroom or getting all dressed up for a fancy wedding, I can say "this is who I am" and know that people do see me as a woman.

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this stuck with me while i read and my default expression is male, but i like presenting in female clothes and jewels and makeup but hid it because it would create guilt and shame and have adverse reactions for family and those associated with me, but it is who i am, and i just got comfortable enough to share it with myself, then my wife and now strangers iv never met....going about the world dressed as i wish, wish id done it earlier, i also happen to express as the conformed expression of myself by default for most of my life and still do....its also high maintenance for myself the other way and time consuming....ive come to believe im gender fluid....im male but female activities interest me, fashion, beauty, shopping for those things, wearing those things, and i guess a little narcissism mixed in as im pleased with the result when it all comes together....and i like it....dont understand why....but i do like it....still do guy things i always have done, would just have done them wearing different clothes if it were easier...

this may help, i only recently picked up a bra and fill it as thats the way women look and i want to blend better, and being folicly challenged i wear a wig, but had long hair in my youth....wish i still did...

was in court today dressed as a my conformed self and was doing some fashion policing....and was the only guy chiming in with the women lawyers while waiting for the judge, all the other males in the room just sat there stoically....male lawyers as well....not even the usual sports banter....just being me....

For those of us who are a mix of both genders its not crossdressing that is a part of who we are, its being a woman (and a man) that is part of who we are. I am part woman whether im wearing a dress or in jeans and a shirt painting the bathroom. Sure when someone is asked to describe who someone is thats seen on the street most will say thats a man/woman, boy/girl etc. However, if the male bodied masculine dressing person they are seeing is a closeted ts then they are actually seeing a woman, they just dont see it and a man is totally not who that person is. I think this is where the public gets confuzed about the difference between sex and gender. For people who are mixed gender, woman and man are both a part of who we are no matter what we're wearing or how we look to a stranger.

For me, Reine, crossdressing is something I do to support the thing that I am which at present I'm defining as transgender though genderqueer, gender-fluid or gender-non-conforming come close to refining it a bit. Being dressed in women's clothing isn't an end-game to me. Wearing women's clothes helps focus me on the female traits that I reflexively suppress when I present as male too long. But in the end I'm trying to achieve an expression that is neither male nor female. I am by NO means a woman, I don't pretend to be a woman and I consider it a little disrespectful to women to make a claim like that (as I think it's a little disrespectful to truly manly men to claim to be one of them.) Sadly, there's no respectable middle ground for me to stake out at this point in time. I'm certain people like me add value to society but at the moment society doesn't recognize that. I'm hoping that comes with more public awareness.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Although I accept your and others' need for expression, it is difficult for me as a non-CD or non-trans individual to understand this. I also have a need to express the feminine aspect of my being, in that nothing would ever induce or convince me to portray myself as a man.

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I believe this summarises why anyone who is cis-gendered has so much difficulty understanding ANY aspect of CDing from minimalist underdressing through to pre-SRS transition and HRT. It is clear that many here also struggle to understand - I think part of the barrier is semantics (again!).

I don't believe anyone here (other than TS folk) really believe they are a woman and certainly not just through dressing. The barrier is the stubborn habituality we have towards binary male-female, masculine-feminine, XX - XY, whatever it is - society (and we to some extent as part of that) like simple black and white explanations. If you can suspend your belief in this habit, and imagine for a moment that it is possible for some people to have in their core persona aspects of BOTH male and female, then it becomes possible for some of us to enable that ability to 'feel' female by expressing that visually.

The semantics get in the way by what you (and each of us) understand by 'to feel like a woman' - that's probably as individual for each of us as it is for real women, but being part-timers, we'll likely tend to idealise that. Hence the glamour, the shopping, the dancing - and for some, the housekeeping and domestic work :) - the intensity of the experience, transient as it must be, sometimes drives us to over-egg our puddings, so to speak...

I'm pretty sure this weird mixture of male and female is who I am - and I may be better recently at accepting myself and can like what I do, but I sure as heck have had times when I don't like experiencing this inexplicable mixture of feelings and needs. Third gender has a lot going for it to explain the motivation for me (but that would be probably be an impenetrable concept for most cis-gendered and TS folk... :))

Katey x

Reine,
After reading so many of these post I wondered why this is referred to as Crossdressers.Com if you are looking at the percentages. The only common denominator is the designated title on the tags of gender specific articles of clothes. Simple crossdressing as I have done for over 40 years is simple, just what it says. Before PC came into being we were refereed to as transvestites, no problem there for me. I have never wondered who or what I am, I know exactly. The only questions I ever really pondered is how quick I can do it again. And just like any other stimulating experience why does this fell so good, so I can find some way to enhance it and make it last longer. I have enjoyed role play and sex with my wives while dressed and even with my over active imagination got into the role, but I never have thought or believed I was was anything other than me, just having a Great experience either shared or alone. In the end I am a CD'er and have no problem or guilt for it, it is just one part of what I do and am and my wife and I understand it. No if's, and's or or's about it. All because we communicate and are honest with full disclosure.

As a CD who, after coming out online here, waited 3 years for my "fem side" to appear? I share your confusion, Reine.

While CDing for me is a passion and complusion, I don't believe it is an expression of a "fem side". In fact, I want Sherry to look as different from me as possible. Yet, it IS whom I am! I know a number of guys who call themselves golfers. I'm a tranny, CD, female impersonator, guy who wears women's things. :battingeyelashes:

I guess sometimes the distinction between what we r and what we do gets blurred in our minds!:eek:

Thanks Doc! But at least you've described it, without leaving an undefined "this" for the rest of us to fill in (as in "this is who I am"). You used actual nouns; "I'm a tranny, CD, female impersonator, guy who wears women's things."

It would be helpful if people in general replaced the pronoun "this" with descriptive nouns, so the rest of us would know what they mean!! :) Without the use of any nouns, the rest of us replace the "this" with what we see, and it defaults to the presentation mode which is female, a.k.a. woman, hence the confusion.

Mix of male and female who may present as either or is "who I am".