Yep... It can and does happen. It may be happening to a very close friend now. I will be so happy if one loveless intolerant marriage ends with the formation of a wonderful partnership. (And I want to be a bridesmaid!!!)
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Yep... It can and does happen. It may be happening to a very close friend now. I will be so happy if one loveless intolerant marriage ends with the formation of a wonderful partnership. (And I want to be a bridesmaid!!!)
The number one thing that holds couples together? Is this ~ the determination, the strength of mind, heart, and soul, to stick it out and make it work. The Devil you know is much, much better than the one you don't know!
A lot of times? Its just better not to think too much? There's most definitely such as thing as "Paralysis by Analysis" So much so, you get swamped with the facts, and fundamentals, even over whelmed?
Crossdressing, excessive gambling, cheating with others, fishing, deer hunting?
It comes down to this...................................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7gZHU_awjQ
I think you are being pretty selfish on the crossdressing issue. She "tolerates" your dressing, that's more than many member's wives do. You seem to expect her to enjoy participating in your "hobby". Perhaps she just isn't into it. It could be fishing, golf, flying model airplanes, etc. If she didn't enjoy these activities would you be considering leaving her?
Suppose you wife enjoyed quilting. Would you be willing to participate? Learn quilting? Attend quilting classes and shows? Probably not is my guess.
Marriage is a compromise. The partners have to learn to give and take and respect each other's wishes. Divorce is no fun and when it's over, you might not be able to afford to dress.
- Sara eloquently posted a potential negative outcome to a divorce. Many in this thread agreed with her.
- Two or three others posted stories of happy outcomes when CDers found a second SO who was accepting.
So the chances for future happiness with someone else are unknown. Thing is, what are the chances. Fifty percent? Twenty-five? Seventy-five?
Your answer resides in looking at what percentage of women do embrace the crossdressing currently in our society. Do you think that most women in your neck of the woods would support this unconditionally or not. Find CD studies where wives have been polled. How many support the CDing unconditionally, vs. accept but with a request for balance, vs. accept reluctantly, vs. reject outright. Look at other threads in the forum that describe the level of a wife's support and try to get an objective sense for the averages.
You are limited to the pool of available women out there. If, however, you think that you will want to remain single, then it doesn't matter.
A funny thing happens with girlfriends. Yes they are generally more receptive to the CDing than wives of many years but this is because what you do has less impact on their lives than if they were your wife. Ask yourself, if you had married any of these other women, would they have sustained the same level of enthusiasm over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah C.
I had a bit more thought about it.
This is beyond a simple "if I gave up what I have, could I found a better one" question. One can debate all about chances and probabilities. But a marriage relationship is also a commitment.
Take for example, if I left my wife, would I be able to find a younger woman to become my wife? Probably, or very likely. Of course everyone wants to be with a younger girl. But would I do it? No. Because I am married and that is a commitment. So even that I have a very high chance of finding a younger girl (and very low chance of ending up alone miserably), I still would not do that. It is not a simple question of probabilities.
So my wife has some "shorting comings" (older, or not enthusiastic about my dressing), and suppose I have a good chance of finding a "better" one (younger, or fully embracing my dressing). Would I leave her and go for it? I think the analogy gives me a simple straight answer.
When you are single, only marry a woman when you really can not live without her. When you are married, only divorce your wife when you really can not live with her. That is the bound of marriage, and a commitment has a pretty high threshold. So do you can't live without having a wife that fully supports your dressing?
I'd propose the possibility of an alternate endingQuote:
Originally Posted by Sara Jessica
In four years you retire. Now that you don't have to worry about losing your job, you can go out to regular places dressed. You can go to the supermarket, Home Depot, the theater, practically anywhere you want. So you decide to go half time as a girl, or maybe even full time, and getting out as a girl is so much fun. You find a lot more people than you expected are very accepting. You make a lot of new friends that accept you as you are. You can pierce your ears, get your eye brows threaded, shave everything below the eye brows, maybe even get laser and/or electrolysis on your face.
And then you think how you couldn't have done any of these thing when you were married, because of the grief your SO would give you or the fear of getting divorced.
And you smile a happy smile. It was so worth it.
My ex-wife used my dressing to justify her numerous infidelities.
Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting swapping out wives on a whim, hoping for a little better each time. I'm simply stating that if your life is miserable, loveless and totally depressing, well it may pay to consider the merits of a move on... Think 'pursuit of happiness' not barely existing. Compromise within reason, a little give and take on both sides is normal. I live in a happy democracy, it's far from dictatorial. Reasonable boundaries, constant communication and no secrets works for us.
Donna, I do agree with a lot of things you said. Marriage can be broken up by many things, especially "miserable, loveless, and totally depressing". In those cases, dressing would just be a small part of that breakup, because there are other much bigger problems in the marriage. Even if a marriage is otherwise alright (80% good as OP stated), it could still be broken up if one side can not live with not having an all supportive spouse (i.e., having a desire for dressing that is overwhelmingly strong or even could want a full transition). What I was saying is that divorce is not a path that should be taken lightly, and has a quite high threshold.
And there is nothing wrong with a positive angle on this important subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnagirl
On the other hand, mine wasn't inherently negative. I am an overwhelmingly positive person, an optimist to a fault sometimes. But I am fully capable of being a realist and sometimes a reality check is necessary.
I think some can fall victim to the allure of being able to dress on a whim. My point is that it'd likely get old, especially at the expense of an 80% positive relationship. Heck, a lot of peeps stay together for a much lower positivity ratio.
My own world view colors the advice I've given. I measure my own marriage as being overwhelmingly positive (dare I say 90%+? I'm no pollyanna but it is certainly very high on a positivity scale). My TG nature perhaps contributes a whopping 1% negativity these days. It hasn't always been this way. There are several simple...yet very complex things that have brought us to where we are.
1) I gave up on trying to bring her in to become an active participant. I have said repeatedly that when I did so, my happiness improved tremendously. Face it, some women just cannot get their heads around this thing of ours to become active participants. They are to be cherished no less because of this. It is what it is.
Many relationship conflicts I see in these pages includes the TG partner trying to reel her into "his" world. It may work sometimes but I dare to say most women don't want to be an active part of it. Hence DADT or as I put it before, "yeah, whatever", becomes the mode of existence.
2) Space. A woman doesn't have to play along provided she is willing and able to give us space to be who we are / do what we do (whatever one's personal situation might be). It isn't that she holds the cards as in "she must give permission for us to do something". Rather, marriage is a give and take so if she is able to give some space for one to do something which is inherently harmless but that she happens to harbor distaste for, then the relationship can maintain health.
What happens though is when given an inch, we tend to take a mile. If we cannot recognize reasonable boundaries, then the relationship will suffer.
3) Commitment. An overwhelming positive relationship is a thing to behold. Is this really something to toss aside in favor of more dress-up time? If the answer is "yes" in the face of an 80% positive relationship as OP stated, then there are other issues going on.
4) Knowing myself. I have a full understanding of who & what I am and where I see this going as I get older. This vision does not include causing my marriage to implode due to my gender issues.
There will always be stories of second chances where some of us have found a 100% willing/able/participating partner. It isn't impossible but I dare to say the odds are stacked against such an outcome by virtue of the countless stories in these pages about people from all over the dating spectrum lamenting they are unable to find a woman to share this part of them...let along one who doesn't run for the door at the all-important first disclosure.
Krisi has a good point. Do husbands always enjoy things that wives want to do?
Char,
Yes shopping but not on the agenda ! I would have loved her to show me how to use the sewing machine but I've had to teach myself .
I enjoy painting , most of my group are women but my wife snapped at me that she didn't want me to teach her to paint, that hurt because it's something we could have shared , little things like that may have helped keep us together !
When you spend many years together and invest alloy of time, it is difficult to break from a relationship. It is sad in many ways. My wife is mostly accepting and I am very lucky. I did not tell her when we met and I should have. of course I want 100% acceptance but I will take what I can get.
In the short time I have been on here and know Teresa I appreciate her commentary. I could tell you were struggling. I hope only the best works out for you and I wish you luck. You probably need a hug!
Not in a relationship but I wouldn't stay with someone who didn't at least attempt to understand or accept what has become such an integral part of my psyche that goes beyond just the CDing for long. I can't change being this way and I don't see why I should have to just because the partner couldn't handle it. I hide this from enough people as it is. I hate alcohol and smoking with a passion but I would tolerate them from an SO if those things brought them a sense of temporary relief or escapism from the hardships of life, and I'd expect the same for what brings me fulfilment. I don't tolerate double standards from people, and it's irrelevant to me how much more 'socially acceptable' one 'hobby' is considered over the other.
In order to get full acceptance you have to have something to offer.
cding is both time-consuming and expensive. The sorts of places you can go do not spell 'family man' or 'companion'; very few partners would have thought of going to a gay bar or other LGBT outlet. If you want validation as a female what happens to your partner?
Have you ever stopped to think what the money you spend would mean to your family or future? Have you ever thought how those hours could translate into learning a skill or studying something else? And when did you last shower your partner with the kind of affirmation you now seek?
Partying and outside excursions have their limitations over time. Please don't let me spoil your fun but do try to accept that many situations can respond to a quid pro quo-you do something for me I'll do something for you. Now where did you put the hammer, nails.......?
Sara makes a good point , but for some including me I'm much happier single and not just because I'm cross gendered ,I was married for over 20 years three kids all adults now , although it cost me my house and a lot of money
I'm much happier now ,I have had a girlfriend for the past 14 years who I told from the beginning and made it clear that its part of me and its not going away , we don't live together we both like our own space
She has never seen me dressed she knows I go to my CD clubs dinners and get always but does not know I go out mainstream ,
There are a lot of Trans groups around with really nice people that have get together s so you may check that out ,
I have never told my family about me they may know ,if they do they don't let on I guess they will find out one day
We are all different only you can decide whats right for you good luck
Julie
Theresa, I wasn't talking about shopping - or something that many CDers like to do with or without women.
For instance--
I like to go to spin class, I go almost every day. My SO doesn't like it, he tried it, he doesn't like the music, the bikes, the noise, the time of day that I go, etc. Would it be ok if I said to him - if you don't like something that I like (like spin class, pottery, knitting, etc.), then we are through and I will find another man who likes to participate with me?
Of course, that is as ridiculous as it sounds. I would never want to leave my SO, especially over something so stupid. However, some wives may feel CDing is stupid and don't want to participate.
If you are talking about a lifestyle change, the wife will usually have a strong opinion one way or another.
My wife is supportive, so dressing is about 3/1000 of a percent of what makes us tick as a team. She gets copious amounts of male me, too, so dressing is just not an issue to part ways on. Now, if I was not allowed or perhaps forbidden by her to dress, then I'm sure that might change things. Enough so that other relationship issues might become exaggerated and . . . well, you get my drift. Dressing is a calling and if I get to let it out and not bottle it up, then it is ordinarily immaterial to our relationship.