Upsetting conversation with my wife tonight

Allow me to try a new approach in terms of explaining why so many wives have a difficult time with this. Please keep an open mind. Although the CDing may or may not be at times sexual for you, the analogy speaks rather to a spouse's reaction to things they do not understand. You will need to be able to translate my analogy to fit your situation. If you can get through it without saying "but this isn't the same thing", then maybe my suggested solutions will help.

Let's just say that your wife was a marital counselor and in the course of her career she decided she wanted to become a sexual surrogate, which would involve being sexually intimate with men on a regular basis. In a hotel room. Few husbands would embrace this. They might question their wife's motives for wanting to engage in this particular form of therapy since there are many other directions that therapists can take in their helping professions. A husband might ask himself if his wife was sexually satisfied with him. It would also be natural to fear the development of an intimate relationship with another man which might eventually lead to divorce, or even if there wasn't a divorce, the possibility that his wife would experience greater sexual satisfaction with someone else. Depending on the husband, these things might work on him to the point where he began to construct his own explanations for his wife's motives and question the entire basis for their marriage.

So, what would need to happen in order for the husband to go along with this and stop being fearful? To begin with, lots of very open communication (answering all questions even if repeatedly) and reassurance. Also the husband would need to FEEL (more than see) that his relationship with his wife was unchanged, especially after a therapy session. The wife would need to give her husband full freedom to express his concerns whenever he needed to, so that he would know that his feelings were a priority to her. The husband would need to feel loved and a priority in his wife's life. These things are fairly easy to accomplish if the couple loves each other. But of equal importance is simply time. It is only through personal experience and the observation that things are unchanged, that we discover that what we feared most is not an issue after all.

The husband would need to see though, that his wife was unchanged on all levels. If she started with one client and was building her practice by taking on more and more men to have sex with, and the sessions with these clients took more and more time, it would be natural for the husband to feel a great deal of discomfort until his wife's schedule stabilized and he could witness for himself that his wife's profession had no impact on their personal interrelationship and that he still was very much her priority. It might be equally difficult if he witnessed a glow about her when she came home from one of her sessions. He might even not want all his friends to know that his wife regularly had sex with other men, even if he eventually came to understand that doing so had no impact on their relationship.

Translating this analogy back to you, it is difficult to ask a wife to walk through her fears bit by bit, step by step, especially when things are ramping up, but ultimately this is what is required to move forward … as long as you know that more crossdressing will not lead to wanting to come out to people in your lives. This is the turning point for many wives because of the social taboo that still exists in our society and because it indicates a switch from "this is what I do" to "this is who I am", if "this is who I am" means "woman".

I did not have the time or inclination to read all the responses. I got as far as the posts attributing your wife's fears of discovery, etc to child hood trauma. Don't read too much into that as a way to explain a woman's negative reaction. Your wife has a justifiable fear. Too many people do not understand, and, choose to not take the time to understand what cross dressing is all about. You are fortunate to have a wife who does not go absolutely crazy about cross dressing. I'll bet she may think about the maid at the hotel finding you all dolled up and dead in bed from a heart attack. At least at home she can strip the clothing off you before the paramedics arrive.

I will agree with her that you upset the status quo without prior discussion. If you are to be discovered as a cross dresser the fall out may not be limited to just you. With women it seems to also be a reflection upon the woman: "What's wrong with her? Why does she want to be married to a cross dresser?"

Maybe your wife would be agreeable to taking a movie in with you when under dress....panty and hosiery.

Camille,
I can fully understand your caution , you don't mention children but they make the whole thing much harder .
I know I'm going to be jumped on but sometimes keeping quiet is the best policy, I tried wearing stockings and suspenders etc, when photographing a wedding and regretted it simply because they proved too uncomfortable to physically work in !
You went to work underdressed as a try out why didn't you leave at one day of personal pleasure, you weren't breaking any rules !

I can tell you from experience that you will want more and will have to come totally clean about it eventually, and sadly there's never a right time to do that but it will come !

Hey camille, sorry to hear this story but thanks for sharing. As others have said, I can't offer much advice because only you know your wife. While things seem limited you still have the opportunity to dress, and perhaps you can have a discussion with your wife again about it. My mom too was worried about violence and danger, I assured her I understood it was a possibility but like any GG I had no intention of wandering the city at 3am, by myself or somewhere unsafe.
I drink far less when dressed and i would be more aware of my surroundings.
Maybe you could have a talk about that.

As for the not meeting a fellow forum member, I find that hard to pass off, when I go out to a restaurant I never listen to others conversations, if there was someone there who knew you to get the rumour back to your wife you would surely not discuss it in ear shot of them. I think you should try talking about that again, it's obviously for group support and sharing experiences, not different than an AA meeting.

Sarah x

Well I believe in "never say never". For some reason when I told my wife she didn't want me to wear pink, I was dying to wear a pink bra or pink panties but I don't know why for years she didn't want to hear about it, finally one day out of the blue she comes home and bought me pink panties, but that's just one situation and in everyone situation she seemed to come around in time. They just need time to feel comfortable with different situations, but that's my wife I can't say your wife will react the same. That's why we are here sharing our true life experiences and trying to shine some sun on our problems.

I don't have any advice but just want to thank you for sharing. I know that things will get better. My wife wrestles with similar fears and anxieties and sometimes it's harder for her than others.

Sometimes I'll feel like she has gone backwards on me and then, out of the blue she'll do something like she did yesterday when she handed me a flyer for a free face cream and eye serum. Wow I was floored ( in a happy way!).

Hope things get better soon.

Beautifully written, thank you for sharing so honestly. Life certainly isn't fair. We cannot deny our needs to express our feminine sides and I can certainly understand our wives' trepidation. I am truly blessed with a wonderful wife who allows me to dress as I wish, but I have put up my own boundaries. While she has helped me with specific outfits, I try to dress when she is at work, remaining in her eyes, her husband. I am not sure if the situation were reversed, I would be as accepting. That certainly takes a big person. All I can say is you seem to be realistic about your situation and aware of the challenges. Here's to the next Camille day!

Hi Camille. I know how difficult this is for you, but you are doing the right thing by involving your wife in these decisions and taking her feelings and fears seriously. A couple of thoughts: do you live in a fairly conservative or liberal town? Is it small or cosmopolitan? The chance of a going out en femme turning dangerous is far less in a liberal or cosmopolitan place, but if it is very conservative or small, then it could put you at risk. As for meeting others, does your CD friend has an SO that she is out to? If so, perhaps the four of you could meet for coffee or drinks (with both of you in drab)? One of the biggest breakthroughs for my wife was when we went to Christmas party hosted by a fellow CDer and in which other couples that included a CDer were also invited. No one was en femme, and it was just like any other get together with fun people. Of course, this strategy only works if the people are people you would hang out with even if you didn't have CDing in common.

I truly feel for you, you seem to be out of options! Just know that you are truly a lucky person to have a wife that understands your needs and is supportive at least to a point. Give it some time and I am sure she will eventually warm up to the idea of progressing a bit further. You are spot on when you say you're only comfortable moving forward with your wife's support, doing anything in secrecy will only lead to more heartache for certain. While there isn't much you can do to calm all of her worries, some occasional reassurance may go a long way. Maybe when the time is right you can invite her to meet up with your friend along with you? That might help ease any fears she may have? Just a thought.

*Big Hugs*

<3 Lauren

Hi Camille, thank you for the post, we're here to listen if nothing else! Although I can't relate directly I don't doubt the Caitly Jenner sensationalism is a factor, a super man like Bruce Jenner coming out as a woman I don't doubt stirs up some thoughts in a lot of married GGs (I wonder if David Beckham is getting curious glances lately). I can't (and wont) offer any advice but I do hear you!

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Originally Posted by Maria 60

Well I believe in "never say never". For some reason when I told my wife she didn't want me to wear pink, I was dying to wear a pink bra or pink panties but I don't know why for years she didn't want to hear about it, finally one day out of the blue she comes home and bought me pink panties, but that's just one situation and in everyone situation she seemed to come around in time. They just need time to feel comfortable with different situations, but that's my wife I can't say your wife will react the same. That's why we are here sharing our true life experiences and trying to shine some sun on our problems.

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Couldn't agree with you more Maria, some people just take a rather long time to accept, process, and get comfortable with new ideas or "change" in general. Over 40 years ago my wife refused to even talk with me about my crossdressing, and remained steadfast in her ways for many years afterward. About 3 years ago she made a significant reversal in her thought process, and agreed to explore my crossdressing with me. I still have difficulty getting her to just sit and talk about things with an open mind, but we're no longer in a DADT relationship. These days she doesn't have a problem with me dressing as I please around the house, she shops for Karen with and even without me, she'll tell me if she thinks something does/doesn't look good on me, she's even offered me lipsticks she bought, but didn't like afterwards, and is willing to share some of her jewelry and other accessories with me. She's still uneasy about some things, but we continue to move slowly forward.


Karen

Thank you for sharing this with all of us. My wife is very protective as well. She does worry when I go out dressed that I'll get beaten up or attacked so that's completely understandable. My wife and I do have a lot to still work through about me. I originally thought I was a crossdresser but after some therapy and lots of reflection, I feel that I would like to at least start taking hormones because what I've been telling myself subconsciously is that I don't want to hurt anyone and crossdressing is not a permanent change. In reality, it wasn't going to make me happy to be a temporary woman. Anyway, I only say this not because I think you'll go down this path as well but her concerns about where you go after this are legitimate and that she might need help understanding where you are on the transgender spectrum. As with any relationship where there's a concern about between two sides of an issue, there has to be some middle ground that you both can compromise on. Talking through it is probably the best way to ensure you are both happy. Your wife sounds like a wonderful person to be accepting. Good luck and I hope things turn out well. <3 :hugs:

1st, good job on the open honest communication. Both from her and from you. You both know where you are at with yourselves and each other. My take on this, is that your dressing had up until this point, a very controlled environment, set up by the both of you I am assuming, in that this (generic) is what you do, and this (generic) is where it happens. A progression of your cding happened, where you advanced the where it happened, to anywhere. Even though it was underdressing, and know one else knew, the CDing, still became public, in a way. Also, a potential CD friend was being lined up. With the latter, simply that it meant less time with her, and more time with your CD friend. And I would imagine that a CD friend can be very difficult and confusing for many partners. Not really a regular male friend.... even though the friendship may be strictly platonic, but it is with a man, who is also into dressing as a woman. How does a partner understand or even begin to define a friendship of that nature? Scary is certainly a reasonable reaction, especially when such a friendship was not present.

The underdressing at work, aside from a reasonable fear of accidental or perhaps incidental discovery, but that it too is a progression. Now, CDing for you isn't just in the hotel room, and it is happening in a way, all day long, wherever you are. If that makes you feel good, then, it can only stand to reason she may wonder, what next? There was a set boundary for you with this, and the CDing you did broke free from this. Now out of the fish bowl, she really does not have a boundary in which she can internally hang on to.

I am not trying to discourage you, or say you did wrong, because you were honest about your desires and what you did, which I am thinking was not so much a break of an agreement, but just a progression from what was to something greater. I am just trying to think of how this new experience with your CDing likely effects your wife. It is good that both of you with your open communication know what and where each other are at. It is good too that you are respecting your wife and not progressing without the communication, and are respecting her comfort zone as well. In time, maybe lots of it, after more communication, she may not feel so fearful. Keep up the good open honesty and communication, and respect. In the bigger picture in life, it sounds to me that she is your 1st priority and you are not gambling your marriage on something you feel is not an absolute necessity.

Life is tough. As most good parents will often sacrifice so much of their time for their kids, and money too of course. We sacrifice for our partners, for our employment, for other friends and family members. Life can be quite the balancing act. CDing makes that already high wire act ever more challenging.

I was wondering... What would happen if you let your wife set the boundaries to your crossdressing?

I know it worked for me. My wife was insecure, worried about where my crossdressing was going. She was worried that I may transition someday. So I told her that I love her and she would always put her first in my life. I let her know that I love to crossdressing - it just makes me happy. She started buying my crossdressing clothes, setting time when I could crossdress. I'm happy with the situation, and she feels that things are under control.

So my wife and I spoke more about this the other day. I expressed to her my desire to be out in the world more, and how it saddened me to think I wouldn't ever. We also had another, deeper conversation about how I am not TS, and am also not interested in being with guys. Some requests by me for trying role reversal in the bedroom recently had her concerned it might be otherwise and had led her to wonder where this was all going. So when I then mentioned the panties at work, she freaked. She seems more at ease now after I explained things more, and reiterated the difference between gender identity and sexual preference, as well as the spectrum of CD'ers and where I fit in. I also told her about a recent thread on this forum called "Just a crossdresser", which she said she wants to read, so I printed her a copy to read.

I took the advice of someone on the previous thread and was truthful with her about how far I'd want to take this, rather than revealing things slowly. She now knows the limit I want to take this to, which is going out to support groups or gatherings, or being out but in an area that's "safe" and where I am extremely unlikely to run into anyone I know. And she seemed to understand my need to do so and be out in the world, and not just sit pretty in a hotel room. She's feeling better about all that. She said she's comfortable with me going out in the context of a CD/TG support group gathering, rather than just meeting an individual from this forum that I don't really know, in an arbitrary place. On the flip side, we agreed to no more underdressing at work, since for her that's too risky.

I told her to let this all sit for awhile, incase she changes her mind. But I now have at least have a glimmer of hope that Camille might see the light of day (or night). Perhaps an outing is indeed in my future, provided it was to a location she felt comfortable with, and was part of some kind of "support group" outing or meeting. I've read about these types of groups in other cities for sure, though surprisingly I haven't found anything closer to the Bay Area than Sacramento (the "river city gems").

Camille

There is no reason she cannot go along with you to Sacramento. You can make a weekend trip. She can go shopping while you attend the meeting. You can share some time together outside of cross dressing.

I can't help you with support group meetings in your area, but I do want to commend you for taking a direct approach to dealing with your wife's concerns and your needs. One thing you probably should keep in mind is that over time, things will change, both in your interests and perhaps in her attitude. I hope all the changes will be for the better!

Hey Camille, Thank you for posting an update. i'm so glad to hear that she seems to be a little more at ease and you as well. Sounds like a little give and take was done and you both have enough to feel ok. Hopefully in time she can see and truly feel confident that she'll have the partner she married and there is no need to worry. And who knows.... maybe in time she'll go on an outing with you and find Camille to be a really cool girl friend to hang out with.

I'm happy that you were able to talk some more about this. I hope that with this compromise you both can be happy. :)

My wife and I have an agreement that I will dress at home occasionally and if I'm going to dress out, we go to another city. the main one we've gone to is 3 hours away and very unlikely that we're going to run into anyone we know. The screwy thing is that one time I was dressed in another town and we went into a used clothing store and ran into a whole bunch of people from our home town. My wife was immediately recognized. They all asked where I was and my wife told them I was right behind her. They didn't recognize me at all. If I hadn't been with her I could have completely blown by them with no problem. She had a story that I was going to a "thing" with a bunch of drag queens and we all had to dress up for it. They bought it.

Find a place where you and your wife can be away from the pressure. Farther away is probably better.

Hi Camille,

Sorry I did not get a chance to respond to your last post but by the time I saw it, sage advice had already been dispensed and I see from this post you took said advice. Once the 500 pound elephant has been dealt with (i.e., your wife knows) then honesty in all aspects of what you do from that point forward is the best option - which you have done :). However, you also need to keep the communication lines open to ensure there is no misconception on yours or wife's part as things progress and you head out for your first support group meeting. I found when my wife and I were navigating these waters early, if we did not take time to discuss things and one of us had a bad day at work (non-CD related) it was easy for the other misconstrue that as a CD related issue because we did not talk about it. As well, if you find things progressing even further, you need to go back to the well before it becomes an issue. The key thing now is as you said "let is sit for awhile" allow her to digest the information then move forward in your agreed upon direction.

Cheers

Isha

Hi Camille, You need to get her on this forum and into the FAB section:hugs:

You're wise to print a particular thread for her to read rather than encouraging her to view the forum. Plenty of threads here would scare the crap out of her, I fear.

Sounds like a sensible approach Camille... Slow and steady is the right way now... :hugs:

With Nikki's words echoing in my ears, even with that one thread I think it is worth reiterating that we are all individuals and no one experience or motivations why we do this seems to be exactly the same for everyone - and try to keep in your mind how this will continue to look for her, probably for some time: you present as an attractive, young woman - and that in itself is probably enough to keep triggering the 'why' question in her mind - so do keep reassuring her and being open... :)

Good luck with the support group - I would have thought you'd have had plentiful options in the Bay Area given its history of acceptance... :confused:

Katey x

Sounds like a very promising development! From what you've said, I don't think your CD activities would pose any issues with your relationship with her, so that is a strong point on your favor for success at gaining her acceptance. I think that the fear of losing 'the man she married' is the biggest issue that causes trouble for married CD/TG folks.

Best of luck as you continue your journey!