Public Restroom

I will use the ladies room. Years ago, I was at a trangendered convention and there was a function held at the Moose Hall. We were told that we couldn't use the ladies room, but had to use the men's room. While I was visiting and socializing with some of the members from the Moose Lodge, I mentioned to the lady I was talking to, that I would be leaving in a while. She then asked me why I was going to leave so early, I told her that I would need to use the rest room in a while and didn't feel comfortable in the men's room dressed as I was, if fact I asked her if she would feel comfortable going into the men's room dressed as I was; which she agreed with me that she wouldn't want to either. As it turned out, she was the person that set the policy and then announced that it was okay for us to use the ladies room. I think that it depends on how you act; which will determine the reaction you get in a lot of areas.

I was taught (by some regular posters here) to always use the restroom you present in. Period. Here's an example:

While driving back north after my most recent trip to LA/OC (several months ago), I was fully dressed, and used the ladies room several places over two days. I also checked into my hotel fully dressed. Nobody batted and eye. When I stopped at one state rest stop, there happened to be a state police car already there. 'What do I do now?', I wondered. 'If I looked, saw his car (or they think I did), then left, it would look like I was leaving because of him, and there might be a call to someone up the road to search my car for drugs or something illegal.'

So I parked, fussed with my purse for a while while i scoped out what was going on (nothing I could see),got out, and as I was heading for the restrooms he was on the same sidewalk walking toward me. We greeted each other, he slowed, asked where I was from, and we had a short chat. He was courteous and respectful.
Then he asked which which restroom I intended to use? Well, I intended to use the women's, and had been told that was the correct, legal thing to do in California, but since my license plate was from a different state I said "The men's".
He said "Don't do that. There are men that do not like you women, and would beat you up. Use the women's."

I said "thank you officer" and headed in.

Britney thankyou for asking because I've been wondering the same thing.

To those that advocate using the men’s room whilst en-femme, have you actually done this? What was your experience?

I think the majority viewpoint is to go with how you present. I’ve used the women’s rest room and even washed my hands and re-applied lippy next to a GG with no problems at all.

Officers sometimes give advise that contradicts law. Their advise may be safer but illegal. They are not knowledgeable of every current law. Even lawyers don't know all the laws. I would use the restroom that is permitted by local law if I could find out what the law is. If the law is grey I don't know what to recommend. What if a restroom women is offended then grabs an officer to question and possibly arrest you. That wouldn't be fun. Especially if your mug may makes the local news before you get a chance to powder your nose:)

On second thought. Odds are you'll be fine regardless of your decision. I've been known to worry too much.

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Originally Posted by heatherdress

I can understand the most popular response will be, without hesitation, to use the ladies room. I just want to offer that even though we feel it is OK, that it is almost a right to use the rest room we want to, we may be diminishing support and acceptance and may threaten women unless we are sensitive and careful. My wife, who is 110% supportive and very open-minded, has frequently articulated her resentment that men feel it is OK to invade the women's rest room.

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I, too, have heard from my SO that us using the ladies restroom is disconcerting and some women vehemently object, especially is children are present. The latter fear no doubt arises from the common misconception that we're all perverts and child molesters. I always point out when this discussion comes up that I've been to many many sporting events and concerts where women have walked right into the men's restroom, gone into a stall, done their business, and walked out -- usually under the explanation that the line at the ladies room was too long and they HAD to go. That comment is usually met with a blank stare and a "so what?" response. Here we have slammed head-on into the female prerogative.

My my advice here is, know both the law and the usual police response to complaints about us in your area, have restroom situational awareness, be realistic about whether or not you pass, be careful, don't talk from the stall (your voice - even if it works when people can see you - will likely give you away if you and your femme presentation are out of sight) and most importantly, keep feet pointed in the right direction and together - no man spread in the stall - do your business, wash up!!, and leave.

YMMD (your mileage may differ)

Oh, remember that a momma bear will do anything to protect her cubs -- including claiming imagined facts if the police are called.

Rhonda

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Originally Posted by MissBritney

Thanks, a lot of good info here for a newly cd that is yet to make a public outing. I just dont think is as easy as everybody says it is. A lot of places have those single restrooms for either male or female. I dont think I'm passable at all or dont have the confidance yet...I'm glad i joined this forum

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If it's a single restroom, regardless of how the sign reads, no problem as there won't be any women or kinds in there with you to complain about you.

As I posted before I always use the women's room when dressed and never have had a problem. On the other hand I can't imagine using the mens room when en femme. I would imagine the the reaction doing that would be bad.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Darling

Oh, remember that a momma bear will do anything to protect her cubs -- including claiming imagined facts if the police are called.

Rhonda

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I agree.

Not likely. Probably highly unlikely. Like getting lightning struck. Stranger things have happened. Could be bad if two momma bear's word against one you.

damn, this is confusing...what is the law, what to others think, what do others do, what does your wife want you to do for your own safety, the quality and location of the restroom.

i have used both dressed en femme. never a problem with the women's but like other said, it only takes one woman to cry wolf and although i have never been accosted or threatened in the mens, i have always been aware that i can cause quite a stir and a few surprised double takes.

my experience asking police for advice is they really don't know

my approach....be confident get in and get out...no dawdling, fix your makeup with you purse mirror in public

@jenniferinsf - Yes, it can be confusing, not least because we are all in different legal jurisdictions here (UK, USA, Aus, NZ, SA, to name just a few of the English speaking zones) so members, please be aware of the legal differences when offering advice... :)

In the USA there is clearly already a lot of legislation related to this and it changes often with State legislation - but there are also resources on the web that attempt to give us pointers depending on where you are located (see: https://safe2pee.wordpress.com/bathroom-resources/, http://www.findfamilyrestroom.com/index.html and http://www.refugerestrooms.org/ for examples). Many of these are crowdsourced/ wiki-type resources so you can contribute as well as benefit from others experiences of actual locations.

In the UK, the distinction of male and female public conveniences (such a quaint term... :)) is advisory only. The same laws apply to these spaces as all public areas and serve to protect individuals as much as possible without being completely prescriptive about who can use them. This leaves it open for valid emergencies and are legally trans-friendly without additional legislation. So in the UK - using as presenting would be the first choice, but I have heard of folk happily use their birth-gender space too. A unisex or disabled facility might be a good option too (and before someone castigates me about using the disabled facilities anywhere, the same guidelines apply here - they are advisory, not prohibitive... :))

Katey x

Consider it from a slightly different angle: there is always someone who delights in making a fuss. The self proclaimed protectors of all that is right who will think nothing of fetching security or calling the police. You know the type. Not a confrontation I want to have until I know the law is no longer fuzzy on this issue.

I will use the ladies if I know it's empty or is at least devoid of children. This week I was about to enter at the same time as a woman, I quickly asked her if she minded (she didn't).

My first choice is coffee shops as they are usually single stall.

Just to clarify - I really don't care if CDers use the ladies restroom. That said, I witnessed a nasty incident a year ago (at Halloween) where a CD man cut in line in the ladies room (the details are in a previous post) and proceeded to get his a** chewed by five ladies that he cut in front of. Not only did they read him the riot act in the restroom but proceeded outside of the restroom to go from table to table pointing him out! I don't know if he was too drunk to notice but he ended up being a laughing stock that night.

So, if you use the ladies room, follow the rules. Get in, do you business, get out. Many times there are ladies fixing their underwear, tights, or whatever - don't stare! Don't go in if there is a mom with little girls in there. (If you want to meet mother bear - try it!) Don't have your phone visible.

If a single restroom is available, it may be wise to use that one.

Most people have no problems, just be aware of your surroundings.

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Originally Posted by Nadine Spirit

Hmm... Is it just me or is there something incongruous about this statement?

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There is, but the only incongruity is the exaggerating of the percentage of support being 110%. Perhaps she should have said 99.9% .

My wife is fairly understanding of my desire to crossdress, but she has expressed her discomfort over the washroom issue. At a CD event we attended a few years ago, our group of about 15 crossdressers and several of our spouses shared a busy restaurant with a crowd of their other patrons. My wife felt the call of nature, and without thinking about this issue, went to the ladies room which at the time was empty. When she left the room, one of our group of CD's was waiting outside the door for her to finish. Knowing she was already in there, he respected what he assumed would be her wish to not share the facility with a "man". Also, by waiting outside, he was letting any other female customers have an opportunity to notice that he would be using the facilities.

Later, my wife mentioned the incident to me and was thankful for his consideration, as she felt uncomfortable at the thought of sharing the facilities at the same time with someone she knew was physically male. There is no easy explanation for these feelings other than a lifetime of social conditioning. There are certainly cultures around the world where such bodily functions are more open and even nudity is commonplace. However, these people have been raised in such an environment and take it for granted. But in the western world, we are raised to expect a degree of privacy in our most intimate moments, such as using washrooms, visiting the doctor, trying on clothing and so on. In some situations this means total privacy, while in others it means same sex privacy. We cannot change a lifetime of such social conditioning by a simple edict. It must evolve.

Veronica

I'm a woman. I use the women's restroom. No one has ever said a word or batted an eye.

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Originally Posted by s.e.al

Britney thankyou for asking because I've been wondering the same thing.

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You are welcome and I must say that i feel very feminine when im called Britney.

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Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, advices and point of views, is much appreciated. I have not gone out in public as Britney but when I do, you guys will be the first to know.

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Originally Posted by heatherdress

...My wife, who is 110% supportive and very open-minded, has frequently articulated her resentment that men feel it is OK to invade the women's rest room.

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Three points:

1. I'm not "invading" anything. I'm using a public facility as it was intended to be used.

2. I am, according to the laws of my state, free to use the facilities in which I am most comfortable.

3. GGs often "invade" facilities not congruent with their assigned-at-birth gender when they find ladies room lines inconveniently long. Everyone is expected to accept this as normal and of course it is.

Live and let live.

LOL, today I was en fem driving home and we stopped at a MacDonalds to relieve ourselves. I went into the ladies room with my SO and got into a stall and everything was alright, we left and got back into the truck and while driving she asked me. "Did you feel self conscious in using the ladies room? I said No I didn't why?
She said that it shocked her as she is used to me always going to the mens room. I said, dressed like this. It would be stupid to go in the mens room don't you think.
She said, yes it would. I was just caught off guard. You have used them before.

It's very simple. This is a safety issue. Better to be upbraided by some women than get the crap beat out of you by rednecks. 'Nuff Said.

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Originally Posted by Eryn

I have never had anyone say a single negative thing to me or in my earshot.

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Eryn - I agree with your comments but just because a woman has never said anything to you does not mean you did not offend her or scare her or anger her. How many women are going to confront a 6 ft 2 inch male dressed as a woman when they are alone in a rest room?

I grow tired of our bath room threads and believe for safety, we really need to use women's rest rooms, but I do feel by doing so as crossdressers we are sort of bathroom bullies.

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Originally Posted by Eryn

Three points:

1. I'm not "invading" anything. I'm using a public facility as it was intended to be used.

2. I am, according to the laws of my state, free to use the facilities in which I am most comfortable.

3. GGs often "invade" facilities not congruent with their assigned-at-birth gender when they find ladies room lines inconveniently long. Everyone is expected to accept this as normal and of course it is.

Live and let live.

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Would you feel the same if your 7 year old daughter was using the women's rest room when you walked in? I think there is more sensitivity and judgment needed than you suggest.

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Originally Posted by heatherdress

Eryn - I agree with your comments but just because a woman has never said anything to you does not mean you did not offend her or scare her or anger her. How many women are going to confront a 6 ft 2 inch male dressed as a woman when they are alone in a rest room?

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I've never "confronted" a woman in a rest room, let alone scared or angered one. Most women take no notice of me at all as they have business of their own. If there is another woman in a restroom I do just what any GG would, move to an empty stall and do my business.

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Originally Posted by heatherdress

Would you feel the same if your 7 year old daughter was using the women's rest room when you walked in? I think there is more sensitivity and judgment needed than you suggest.

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I have two daughters, both well beyond the age of seven. I've gone to the women's restroom with both of them. Just like every other time, I've not seen them in a state of undress and they have not seen me. That's why restrooms are equipped with separate stalls with doors.

Frankly, I don't see an issue. If my daughters were still seven I wouldn't mind at all if a CDer shared a restroom with them, because I know that being TG does not mean that we are predators or perverts. In fact, I would trust TG people far more than I would trust the general population because we are generally polite and respectful of others.

It is very disturbing that one of our own would perpetuate this sort of myth. I've never seen any instance of a transgender person harming a woman or child in a restroom and I challenge anyone to provide an example.

Heather, what sort of bathroom bullies are you talking about? Here in California it is the law. You have the right to use the restroom facilities corresponding to how you are presenting. No one bullying no one, just clear words, at least here in California and a few other enlightened States. I would say the bullies, or those trying to bully and scare others are those opposed to these laws. I don't think that anyone here has ever given any proof that a normal transgender person, including CD's under that spectrum umbrella, have ever been convicted of doing something inappropriate in the women's restroom.

The key words maybe for you are "can use". If one does not want to use them, they can use the other one and take their chances there. There are a lot of rules and laws out there that may not please some of us. I personally do not like that someone can burn the US Flag. I don't like it but the law as upheld in the Supreme Court says that you can as part of one's constitutional right of freedom of speech. Therefore, I never complain about it except in discussion such as this, I just live with it.

The vast majority of us here who actually go out into the real world specifically use the women's restroom when we are dressed as women. There is only a small minority that do not. That is their choice. I too get tired of these threads sometimes, but when there is a vocal minority then I believe that our old male habits come back to defend what one of us have said and sometimes even to get in that precious last word causing these type of threads to come back every so often to open up the same old conversation and points of view. When someone asks which one to use, the majority of us will respond as we have done here, and so will those opposed to it. Thus the cycle continues.

I honestly do respect other's rights to do as they please as long as it is legal. However, in this case I personally will use the women's rooms and not just in California. I have responded a second time here because of your calling us "sort of bullies". That didn't and doesn't set well with me. Yes, I would still use the women's restroom if my or anyone else's 7 year old daughter was in there, and I have done so. By not doing so we are giving more power to those that do not like us even existing.

We here in the USA tend to be overly puritanical and afraid to talk about sex and the human body. A lot think all that stuff is very dirty and should be hidden away. We also incorrectly believe that our way is the best and only correct way, which if one reads a lot and travels outside of our wonderful country they would quickly see that we tend to be way overly conservative regarding these topics when compared to other cultures. We need to loosen up and take the shame out of being human.

I still sit on the fence personally. I do feel we should use the room of our presentation. However in the mid south, there is still alot of people here that don't feel comfy with "us". So i try to go in with my wife or other gg friends. Sometimes with my cd friends if we all have to go. Saturday night we were at a club with multi stall restrooms. And i saw obvious guys going into the womens restroom. So i really didn't want to in there. My friend and i went together and checked for emptiness. Did our business and washed then left.
For me it's a bit nerve racking to use the restroom publicly no matter how i present. But the advise about guys beating up TG and and such in the restroom may be pretty sound. Women most likely will not beat you up physically. I do fear of that in the men's room while presenting. I do worry about it if i am not presenting as well because men are just that way.
The best defense is to not offend usually.

If there is a gender neutral option I will choose it , other wise ladies room. Never had an issue.

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Originally Posted by Kandia

I still sit on the fence personally.

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:eek:

I guess that's one way of avoiding the restroom entirely.... and I thought you were all so civilised in the South... ;)

Katey x

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Originally Posted by samantha rogers

I'm a woman. I use the women's restroom. No one has ever said a word or batted an eye.

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I don't think the question was about women using the women's rest room, it was about crossdressers using the women's restroom.

This subject comes up every month or two and much like in this thread, there is a lot of anecdotal experience posted, but no real answers or agreement.

The safest thing is to find a unisex single stall restroom or a "family" restroom. Anything else could find you in trouble, either with the law or with other members of the public. Like it or not, that's reality.