Is it really about passing??

Interesting thread.

As a Post-Op in the 70s, the ultimate was to pass/blend/stealth/invisible. Confidence in yourself goes a long way for that. Never thought of it as a form of hiding in a closet. Society had very little knowledge of TS back then so that helped.

I guess I did well enough as NO one has ever questioned me. Had NO problem meeting men in non-trans clubs, of course men tend to just want a hookup there. Nowadays as an older person, people don't really look at you very much.

Whenever someone made the public eye like in the last few years. My partner and I would think about it, especially if we were together somewhere. Never with extended family as I have always been out with them from the start. Only work that knew was my job when I transitioned there. Jobs after that there were no problems.

When I go out places with all my new TG/CD friends, few of them worry about passing. I see quite a few that to me would have NO problem with "passing". But not sure if others see me as the same as them, but I don't care anymore. We go out in mixed groups of TG/TS/CD also wives/GF/BF.

Jennifer
You mention transitioning in the early 80s. Was this a full on or partial. If full on what year and age. Still looking for others from back then. Please pm if you want to answer in private.

Do I pass as a woman? Not a chance.

Do I "blend"? Maybe.

Am I accepted by "mainstream" society? Absolutely! I frequently interact within mainstream groups when CDing and have been openly welcome. In fact, I have been told by some that is what interested them in me. Believe me, without the makeup and cute outfits (OK, I'm editorializing here), as a boring old guy, I'm not as interesting (frankly to me or others).

You've read it here many times, be confident, smile. I absolutely believe I am perceived by all who meet me as an honest person about who I am and as such, I am generally accepted. People are attracted to people that are NOT phonies, that are authentic, open and vulnerable to those around them. I go everywhere and anywhere I want and have never had an open negative reaction (I'm sure there have been many eye rolls).

Not sure I'm very qualified to even discuss this since I've only been out once late at night driving around. Certainly wouldn't have passed since I didn't even have a wig then.

To me it is more a matter of passing in my own mind. I want so much to be a girl and when I dress I want to do all of the little things and nuances that make me just like a woman. For that reason I want desperately to pass.

I have no delusions that I'll pass as a real woman, well maybe a rather homely one but for my own satisfaction I'd like to come as close as possible. It would make it easier on the nerves and self confidence if most people didn't immediately react when seeing me.

Liz

I saw a CD a couple of weeks ago at TJ Maxx that was very passable. I like it when I'm not sure at first and have to look for clues. I didn't stare or say anything and I felt happy for her.

A couple of days ago I saw an CD at the grocery store that didn't pass at all. The second I saw her (from behind) I knew. Unrealistic wig, skinny butt in pants - when I caught a glimpse of her face the makeup wasn't done well either. I doubt this person passed to anyone and I felt bad for her.

I haven't been out much, but I would strive to look like the one in the first paragraph. I don't wanna look like I'm costumed for halloween. I would prefer the general public to not notice and for the discerning eye to be unsure (at least from 10 yards away :battingeyelashes:).

Although passing when dressed would be ideal, as would just blending in or even accpeted. These can be very ephemeral goals. It's hard to tell on any given occasion if any of them has been successfully reached. On one day you might pass, if only even by luck, while on another day you might just blend in. Acceptance could refer to the people around you in a mall, for example, or people you interact with such as friends. On another day you might be read. With one outfit you might succeed but with another you might fail. How can you really tell?
There are a lot of good comments on this thread but these three really sum up the general feeling perhaps:

"Since I can't pass up close, I believe dressing to blend is a waste of time. So, now I dress in outfits I enjoy and feel good wearing. That way, along with hoots, WFT's，and overly helpful SA's, I may get a few honest complements about my clothes." Docroberrysherry.
"For me personally, my goal has always been to be presentable. I may pass to anyone who doesn't give me a second glance or thought, but that's where it ends, and that's okay." Aprilgirl
"It's about being yourself, being confident, and aserting the fact that you belong." Eva Bella

In other words, dress up to please yourself and don't worry about what others might think. For the most part people are probably not going to notice you much aor pay much attention to you. Most will simply ignore you. So why bother?
The important thing is to experience that part of yourself you can only when you are dressed. Enjoy the feeling of relaxation, comfort, and just plain enjoyment and satisfaction you get when you're out en femme. Go out dressed with confidence and that smile on your face and you'll have a good time.

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Originally Posted by Ressie

A couple of days ago I saw an CD at the grocery store that didn't pass at all. I doubt this person passed to anyone and I felt bad for her.

I haven't been out much, .

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She was out at a grocery store doing her own thing and YOU felt bad for her.

She may not have passed in your opinion, but at least she was out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teresa

The majority of people are fully aware that Crossdressers believe CDing isn't a mental illness

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FIFY. There are still huge numbers of people in the general population who think we're mentally ill, and many of those think we're a danger to the women and children as well. As evidenced by all the support that is being given to the laws recently passed regarding bathroom access and the right to refuse service to anyone LGBT. It almost exclusively seems to be coming from the religious right, and, seeing as more than half of the population is religious, you can pretty much guess that the people who think you're crazy numbers in the tens, if not hundreds of millions on the North American continent alone.

A CDer could be considered to "pass" dressed in stripper wear and attracting all kinds of attention as a woman dressed like,,,,,,,,,well a stripper.

So take a look back at my picture posts. If you will, read some of my threads on "passing" versus blending. And if you will, check out my blog. Many times I have, through my writings, encouraged people to forget "passing".

I go OUT a lot. That is all I know. I never was in the closet. I do not pass. From ten feet I do not pass. HOWEVER at even less than ten feet and a brief time, like walking by, I am accepted for what I am projecting.

Let's face it, the sales person, anyone at three to six feet will recognize our charade. But should we care? Walking down the street, through the mall, we are either walking with the flow and fooling those going ng the same way if we have a bit of hip swing, or against the flow and in view only a few seconds. If we blend then we are by them before they notice. In the restaurant are they going to let their food get cold to have a lengthy howl at our expense? And disturb the other guests?

If we do a good enough job, if we make them take a few seconds to ponder the BIG. Question, they will loose interest, be long gone walking, or even decide that they are not 100% sure and not take a chance on offending what MIGHT be a real woman.

That is why I try to dress appropriately, albeit more dressy than the typical. Who knows, maybe I am a gal on her way to or from a job in an "office dressy" environment.
Whatever. In the last just over three years, I have been to malls, stores, you name it. I have had FUN, almost zero issues, and wouldn't want to think of what I would have missed had I not done so.

IF going out is your quest, Find yourself a support group that goes out. Or a few friends that do. And ask them to help you over the threshold. That first step is the psychological mountain range that once you are past it, seems no more than a speed bump.

Please don't let the all but unattainable keep you from your dreams. Even 80% or whatever percent is WAY better than zero. Blending works for this old hag. It may be all you need. But you won't know unless you try.

I am having SUCH FUN!

Hi Stevie,
To pass or not to pass, that is the question... You will likely get opinions from one end of the spectrum to the other and they will fairly represent the diversity in this community. I am a CD and have never entertained thoughts of being transgender as that is just not me. I enjoy wearing women's clothing and feeling feminine but have never felt compelled to question my true gender. There are so many variations on the theme that passing is important to some and not to others. Only you will know, despite everyone's best intentions.
That being said, I can relate my personal experience which may or may not be relevant to you.
A couple of years ago, I accepted a consulting position in another city for six months. I didn't know a soul and it was a relatively large city with a very active CD meet up group. Since I had been CD'ing to some extent for most of my life, I thought that it was the perfect chance to take it all the way so to speak and venture out into the public to see exactly what that felt like. Would it be liberating? Exciting? Scary? I felt that I owed it to myself to experience being out and about and to answer that eternal question in my own mind.
I had my foundation done at MAC, bought most of my wardrobe en drab (shoes, makeup skirt, blouse, panties, bra, stockings, garters) and found a great little boutique that catered to CD's for my breastforms, wig, heels, corset etc. I bought my makeup and nails at various drug stores and purse, jewellery etc at one of the local malls. It's a pretty significant investment in time and money to appear passable, let me tell you! For my first evening out with the group, I prepared hours in advance. A lovely fragrant bubble bath with a glass of wine, shaving my legs etc. On to my recently acquired make up mirror (the kind with the lights and close up mirror for that additional horror) and of course, another glass of wine. I must say that I really enjoyed sitting in my robe, bra and panties and once I had troweled my beard shadow into oblivion, very much enjoyed applying the rest of my makeup. It's a very sensual experience as I'm sure you probably know.
So, on with the stockings, garter belt, skirt, blouse... (another glass of wine as this was sooo enjoyable) and time to put on my four inch gorgeous hot pink stilettos (which were carefully matched to my nails and lipstick) and a last check in the mirror and I was off!
I don't know if you have ever seen one of those National Geographic documentaries where they show the newly born giraffe struggling to find their legs but trust me when I say that I was not half as graceful (I'm sure the three glasses of wine didn't help) and I damned near fell flat on my ass at one point. Another quick check in the mirror found one of my beautifully long false eyelashes firmly attached to my eyebrow and it was clearly time to call it a night.
I did eventually get out with the girls at a later date and while interesting, I wouldn't say that I feel compelled to do it on an ongoing basis. They were certainly nice and welcoming enough but beyond our mutual interest in cross dressing, I didn't feel that we had much more than that in common and conversation seemed a little stilted. I must also say that I was very anxious about passing and I just felt that I wasn't as comfortable as I had hoped or anticipated. I tried it a couple of times more and unfortunately, that feeling never left me. I gave it a reasonable chance and found that it wasn't for me.
I'm certainly glad that I gave myself that experience as I would have always wondered what it would be like and, now I know a little more about myself in that regard. I've found that passing is not a big issue for me. I don't give a crap what others think of me. Will they be accepting and respectful? Will they be mean spirited and intolerant? Again, don't care one whit and I don't feel as though I have to submit myself to the opinions of others. I truly enjoy feeling feminine in and of myself. No approval sought or required.
I know what I like. I like long luxurious bubble baths and then sitting at my makeup table in my robe, bra and panties doing my eyes, hair and lipstick. I love the feel of my hair against my cheek and the feel of my earrings against my neck. I love the feel of my skirt when it swishes against my stockings and the sound of my heels on the hardwood floors. That is what brings me pleasure in a very feminine sense. I've found that it's what works for me but at the end of the day, you won't know for sure until you try it. I'm grateful that I did....
Erin

Heck no! I pass when I'm all done up but that's just not me (right now/yet), I'm much more comfortable presenting as whatever the heck I am and I find people completely get it (or maybe they just think "OMG, I better be nice or this 6'1" amazon chic will feed me a fist sandwich 😯 "

I think for the majority of CDs it initially is about passing for many reasons ranging from safety and embarrassment to full on vanity (Caitlyn Jenner?). For me at first it was for fear as is it probably is for most. If not for my exgf I would probably not have ever went out til I was an old male. Thankfully to her she pushed me out. I do pass as female (i'd guess at least 80% of the time) and have been given that validity many times by men I meet at bars and local stores who often hit on me (and also lesbians too). These days I don't really care about having the physical makeup of a female as I used to but also wouldn't trade it for anything today.

These days I am more welcoming to let people know that I am trans when I am out (which is pretty much 100% of the time outside of work) and educate them on whatever questions they may have vs identifying as a cis female. If they don't notice or make my acquaintance then there is no reason to do the trans dance. That being said, my life as a girl is pretty boring these days outside of finding the perfect outfit or awesome sale!

Hi all y'all

Please accept my deep gratitude for every one of your posts here. I wish I had time, this week, to reply to each and every one of you, but I do not.
Your discussion and truth and opinion and experience have been SO VERY HELPFUL and soothing to me.

I am coming to agree that some part of my desire to "pass" is really about continuing to hide!!
I am grateful for this awareness....

Two experiences triggered the whole question
1) the Payless Shoe SA who obviously treated me like she was trained to (based on what I have read here) - with kindness and normalcy, followed by
2) Standing behind an older couple in the meat section of the Publix. She was looking at the prepared items wondering out loud which one they should choose for dinner. When she noticed me, she stepped aside and kindly let me get close to the shelves. She had no response to me what so ever. When I picked the meat loaf off the shelf, while I was turning I looked her way and said with my normal masculine voice, "I chose the meatloaf." She began to smile and then her eyes got big and her jaw dropped and she just stared as I turned and walked away. My first honest surprise face!! That triggered the whole thought of me just wanting to be my normal public person regardless of my dress or the perception of my maleness or my femaleness.

Thanks again for all the feedback!!
Thanks for reading my story and adding any more feedback you might have.

Peace
Stevie

Jennifer,
So are you OK with being perceived as a transsexual? I think I would that would make it more comfortable for me to go out; however, I would want my family or friends to know.

When I first donned some of my mother's clothing in my teenage years I had no thoughts of trying to pass or emulate a woman. It was just trying on her clothes. There was no sexual motivation involved. I suspect all of those who have posted desires to dress as a very young girl had no sexual motivation. Maybe it was just the clothes themselves.

As I got older and was developing a sexual identity wearing women's clothing was in conflict with my sexuality. If wearing women's clothing was (is) in conflict with the perceptions of male sexuality, how does one try to hide that conflict? Perhaps, it is trying to "pass" for a woman. If it was just the clothes, then why does a man in women's clothing seem to always wear a bra? Why, if the guy has "nothing to pack into the bra" as my wife posed to me once? And, then there's the wig. Why a wig if it is "just the clothes?"

I think I want to appear as womanly as possible because I am engaged in an activity that society does not accept. Maybe I'm trying to hide to feel more comfortable...not with my cross-dressing, i.e., wearing women's clothing, but, not to have negative interactions with the masses.

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Originally Posted by Tina81

Jennifer,
So are you OK with being perceived as a transsexual? I think I would that would make it more comfortable for me to go out; however, I would want my family or friends to know.

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Well, I don't get to choose how I am perceived but yes, it's fine. I think being perceived as "trans" is far better than "a due in a dress." While both are still quite unique in this world, I think the normals can accept/understand/get "trans" far more easily than cross dressing. However I am perceived, I do hope that it is with confidence and without shame.

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Originally Posted by GenieGirl

These days I am more welcoming to let people know that I am trans when I am out (which is pretty much 100% of the time outside of work) and educate them on whatever questions they may have vs identifying as a cis female. If they don't notice or make my acquaintance then there is no reason to do the trans dance. That being said, my life as a girl is pretty boring these days outside of finding the perfect outfit or awesome sale!

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Great point Genie, me too! I actually welcome friendly and curious people, I'd love to have a nice conversation with a 'muggle' on the topic...I like to consider myself an Ambassador, at least a little bit!

To me, when I go out as a woman, I do want to be seen and accepted as a woman - I want to pass. And for the most part, I am successful, and I enjoy the validation of the positive reactions to my feminine presentation. That certainly isn't the goal that all of us do or should strive for. But it is the goal that I strive for.

I can be happy presenting fully as a male, or as a 'somewhat girly guy' who has his nails done and his ears pierced, and is wearing more or less 'unisex' clothes that happen to more often than not have come from the women's department. But what makes me truly happy is doing a fully feminine presentation and pulling it off well. I do not care for presenting as male while wearing a dress or obviously feminine clothes. That just isn't me. It's fine with me if other people want to be seen as a guy in a dress, or as someone who just does whatever they please with regards to wearing female clothes, makeup and the like while not trying to complete the illusion. If that makes them happy, great! But for me, aside from a few girly traits that I keep all the time, if I want to wear obviously women's attire, then I do it on an all-or-nothing basis, and go for a full female presentation and trying to pass.

While it may be true for a lot of us that they can never "pass", it is definitely NOT true for all of us! just because an individual's personal experience says that they can never pass, they should not assume that holds true for everyone, because it does not.

There is an amazing level of diversity among cis women in terms of body type, beauty, and how far 'off the standard' their bodies are from what is accepted as a 'typical cis woman's appearance'. Just take a good look at the cis women you encounter every day. I have met women who were decidedly taller than my 5' 10" male frame, yet who were still seen as desirable cis women. I have met cis women who had just as wide a set of shoulders as I have, or who had even more muscular arms than I have, or whose weight and body shape was far less 'feminine' than my unaltered male body. That doesn't make them any less female.

It isn't necessary to look like an idealized centerfold model to "pass". It is only necessary to reach a point of 'reasonable doubt', where someone interacting with you is more likely to assume you are a cis female whose body and face are perhaps farther than normal from the "accepted ideal", than they are to assume you are a guy dressed as a girl. I can't ever become a girl who is 5' 2" tall and 100 pounds with a 36-22-36 figure, short of dying and being reincarnated. But I can and do transform myself into an attractive woman who is well within the range of what real cis women do look like and sound like.

Being seen and accepted as a woman is quite possible, even when dealing with others at close range and conversing with them, if you have your appearance at a reasonable level, dress appropriately for the situation, make some effort to alter your voice to a believable pitch and resonance, and most importantly, if you confidently project an attitude of a normal female in that situation. Do that, and they are less likely to see 'something is wrong' and assume you are a cross dressed male.

I am not on HRT and have had no surgeries. I'm 58 years old, 5' 10" tall and weigh about 200 pounds. My ears are pierced, I keep my nails done at all times, and I keep the visible parts of my arms, legs and body areas carefully shaved and free of any traces of beard or body hair when I am out as a girl. I've learned enough voice control to change the resonance and pitch of my voice to something reasonably feminine. But aside from that, my female presentation relies on breast forms, hip pads, makeup, a good wig, appropriate clothes and shoes, and most importantly on confident feminine behaviors.

I go out in public a lot. I talk to people, go about my business, and behave just like any cis woman would in the situation. And for the most part, everyone around me behaves as if they see nothing but a cis woman when they look at me or interact with me. And I can do that even if all I am wearing is my wig, makeup, breast forms, a thong gaff and a bikini!

I don't get strange looks, or people reacting unusually to me. Kids and teens who normally have no filters on their reactions don't usually react to my presence as if I was anything other than a woman. To a lot of them, I am simply blending, and I'm just not noticed. I'm just one more lady walking past them in the mall or store. But that doesn't apply to the people taking my order for a meal at a restaurant, or for drinks at a bar, or at the check stand while buying groceries, or simply chatting with me as we happen to be in the same location. Those people are seeing me, interacting with me, and still not reacting as if I was anything other than a cis woman. I'm looking in their eyes and they are looking right at me, and I'm seeing no surprise and no hesitations in their face or behavior.

Do some people still 'clock me' and realize I'm transgender or a crossdresser? Yes, of course, but that's a very infrequent occurrence. It's somewhat more likely if they are gay or are TG themselves, because those individuals are more aware that TG people exist and they know what to look for. But it's much more common in my experience for strangers to complement me on how beautiful I am, or on how great my clothes look, or for them to simply treat me like any other woman around them.

Erin,
That was a very interesting reply, for want of a better label I would say CDing is a totally absorbing hobby, I can see passing for you does have a different meaning, as you say you don't have a gender issue. I don't spend time lavishing myself like that, I really want to be out the door and interact with people, again the passing point has a different meaning to me. I was lucky that my first social outing was a celebration party, the meetings since then have just been chatting over a drink, to some that's hard, but I enjoy making the effort to interact with people , to do that dressed makes it that more enjoyable.

Everyone here would love to think they pass but I'm very tall and being very tall certainly has drawbacks as a crossdresser, being self conscious of height really does hold you back, however yesterday I had a great time, I bit the bullet and though f#‪#‎k‬ it! Who cares?? I went out and about, mid day to late evening, where I'd normally avoid being in close proximity to other people I took the opportunity to interact, with sales assistants etc. So refreshing when you are in the right frame of mind, the point is, be you, to hell with everyone else.

l was very close to many people yesterday and only at the very end of the evening did I hear "that's a man" from a young teen lad to his friend, they're the worst, I didn't let it bother me, that seems to be key, don't worry, no one really cares.

I'm certain I'm still not 100% passing when I do dress up, but at the same time I don't worry about it. I mean, how many southern belles were 6' tall to begin with? lol

I'll do what I need to do to look my best, but at the same time if somebody finds out I'm actually a guy and respects that, I'm ok with it. I'm gonna go out and have fun being dressed up!

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Originally Posted by ariannavt

For many reasons I would like to "pass", but I think an important step for me was realizing that I don't HAVE TO pass. My gender presentation is for me.

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Exactly! Today, I went to a mall near Koeln in Germany. I was wearing Jeggings, high boots, feminine sweater, make up, ... I was just myself, not trying to pass as a woman. I don't think anyone cared and it all felt very normal except for one teenager at the changing room at H&M. Bought some make-up at Rituals, Body shop, pink leggings at H&M, a pink cardigan at Street One. SAs were all very helpful, the SA at Rituals gave me some tea and some samples, the SA at Body Shop put some make-up on and more samples, as if everything was absolutely normal! Which it was of course, because we have the right to wear whatever we want in whatever mode we want!

I waver. There's times when I really want to pass or at least present so well someone would have to ask or go hmmmm. Others times I don't care at all.

When I am out with my SO. We seem to pass, but sometimes I don't feel like I do. yet she told me that people see what they want to see and on first look they see you as a female. they may not look twice.

A funny story; when we were at the Paris dance floor in Vegas. We danced with a few women. After a while they noticed we were males. She said, "I thought we were dancing with women."
But they continued to dance with us for the better part of the night and before they left, they came over and hugged each one of us and told us how much fun they had. That was a fun night on the dance floor. So, we all passed for a little bit. But for me they had to ask if I was male.

Is there a secret to passing ?
I think I can pass form 20ft. away or at night or low lighting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by St. Eve

Hi all y'all

Please accept my deep gratitude for every one of your posts here. I wish I had time, this week, to reply to each and every one of you, but I do not.
Your discussion and truth and opinion and experience have been SO VERY HELPFUL and soothing to me.

I am coming to agree that some part of my desire to "pass" is really about continuing to hide!!
I am grateful for this awareness....

Two experiences triggered the whole question
1) the Payless Shoe SA who obviously treated me like she was trained to (based on what I have read here) - with kindness and normalcy, followed by
2) Standing behind an older couple in the meat section of the Publix. She was looking at the prepared items wondering out loud which one they should choose for dinner. When she noticed me, she stepped aside and kindly let me get close to the shelves. She had no response to me what so ever. When I picked the meat loaf off the shelf, while I was turning I looked her way and said with my normal masculine voice, "I chose the meatloaf." She began to smile and then her eyes got big and her jaw dropped and she just stared as I turned and walked away. My first honest surprise face!! That triggered the whole thought of me just wanting to be my normal public person regardless of my dress or the perception of my maleness or my femaleness.

Thanks again for all the feedback!!
Thanks for reading my story and adding any more feedback you might have.

Peace
Stevie

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Remember Stevie's post, girls. If you're not sure if u passed or not? U passed!

Because those of that don't r constantly reminded whenever we go out amongst the Muggles!:doh: