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No, I've never been approached and asked a question like that.
People have a lot of nerve if they are either in a crowd or secure in their car, but on a face-to-face basis they will mutter to themselves, but rarely confront you.
The exception to this of course is kids. They have no qualms about it at all and young girls seem to have the most Chutzbah.
I've had two times I would consider a "challenge" to my appearance. The first time was in a mall a couple of years ago, a group of preteen boys asked me if I was a man. I ignored them and walked on. At the time I don't blame them, I had a beard shadow that would shame Fred Flintstone. It was late in my day and I saw it was becoming obvious thru the makeup.
Removing my beard didn't stop the second challenge. I was in a bakery on morning and my voice would just not get into a higher range. The teenage girl behind the counter figured me out and would loudly say 'sir' every chance she could. Luckily her boss saw the treatment I was getting and took action. I thanked the boss and walked on.
Never been asked the "are you a man or women" question. I have had the long scanning head to foot look from other women both younger (30ish) to older (late 50s to early 60s). I try to blend but far from 100% passable. Knock on wood I've never had a bad experience beyond to long probably knowing looks.
Jennifer,
I like that. "... there's a freedom in knowing I'm not fooling anyone." It sounds a lot like sheer Audacity. Love it.
Trust me, me too [not fooling anyone]. The one time I went on a "go out" adventure, ever and only, I didn't wear my wig or makeup (except lipstick).. I wore a headscarf (dress & heels). Sat down at a sidewalk cafe and had dinner but I was alone and the cafe and street mostly abandoned. My waitress was a saint.
I'm going on an experimental expedition in full dress. Going to do it safely and wisely. Your experience and information helps. Thanks. (Love your signature article link).
Decades ago on a Halloween night I dolled myself up in a black dress, hosiery, heels, wig and makeup with all the proper undergarments. I went into a Safeway and bought a bottle of Coke. A guy, who was buying beer and probably had too much to drink already, did some finger pointing and laughing. It was bothersome but I was not fearful. I figured if anything who ever saw me figured it was Halloween....."Oh well." The checker did not say anything at all. Another Halloween I tested the waters again at a Winchell's donut store and got a compliment. Since then I found I rather take strolls in the early evening in safe neighborhoods and forego any interaction with the public.
When i go out dressed, I usually try to go to some place I feel is secluded enough that I can avoid any encounters and just relax and enjoy the feeling of being out dressed for whatever period of time I am out there. usually i go to a park of some sort. The only encounter that I have ever had (other than the time I was pulled over but that's another post elsewhere) was a guy on a bike passing by us (my SO was with me) and saying 'good morning". no harm no foul obviously.
I am hoping to push things a bit further this year and had thought about trying to go to a mall due to the fact that halloween is on a monday and this mall is mostly deserted though showing signs of coming back to life. After reading this thread though I might scratch that idea off of my list because going out enfemme is about me exploring the world a bit dressed as a world and mostly relaxing. dealing with this sort of stuff really makes me rethink plans.
Could you explain to us, then, why all the negative hate-filled comments from readers of online mainstream news articles/stories on trans-people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
These people don't just exist in Internet-Land, you know... They are out & about with the rest of us, in everyday life.
I have never really had a problem out dressed except for two times, men that were acquaintances AND claimed to be straight got a little too grabby when drunk and I had to forcefully set them straight. I have never been asked if I was a man or a woman, because I think it's very obvious I'm a man but I have been asked, nicely, many questions about my clothing choice. I have been sir'ed and ma'am'ed by a SA all in the same sentence, thought that was funny.
I've not had anything said, but last time out I caught a bit of a glare from a rough looking sort with his family, in the shopping centre. You can see the odd giggle between people, but that doesn't harm me. That's as bad as it has been and I hope remains. I'm happy in myself and I think that confidence washes over onto would-be detractors.
Typical Tracii stuff here and really gave me a giggle. A great way of putting over a serious subject but with the comedic edge. :heehee:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
Becky - south London's premier T...possibly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
Laura, Firstly, it's easy to bitch online so to compare that to face to face interaction is lunacy. Consider this: on any given DAY that I am out, I am in view by a thousand people, maybe more. I interact with a dozen. In any given YEAR, how many of these hate filled internet memes appear? The volume of real interaction without incident to anonymous bitching is like the mass of Everest to a grain of sand. It's insignificant.Quote:
Originally Posted by laurababe
Just read the statements in this thread! Of the thousands of normals who were in play, a handful at best said something.
There are always extremes. There are those who hate black people with equal fervor. You can dwell on the negative and use that as a crutch or live in the real world and know that nowhere is nirvana but everywhere is open.
Jennifer, I would add, that not only does the internet exaggerate the voices of those on the fringe (extremes) it also provides an anonymous place where people more freely express their opinions. In public, I believe most people (other than teens and very young adults) tend to not voice negatives towards us simply because that type of behavior is not socially acceptable. Many are every bit as embarrassed to be in the situation as a first-time out CD might be. I also believe most people tend to be non-confrontational. It's easy to bash someone when they're not around or on an internet forum, but when you're face to face it takes a special level of boldness to insult someone or demean them publicly. It's kind of like road rage. How many people do you see flying completely off the handle in their cars? They feel safe in there, no one can touch them or often times hear them. So that act the fool and get very aggressive. Now put those same people face to face on the street with the person they just hollered at or tried to cut off and suddenly the interaction is far tamer.
Now I admit, all of this is just theory for me. My only experiences being out and about have been on Halloween. The one reaction that even mimics anything being discussed here was the first time my wife and I went out with another couple to a bar on Halloween. I was dressed fairly provocatively and there were a couple guys at the bar who were checking me out. When we left, we ended up walking right past them and one of them blurted out "Holy shit that's a guy!" I kept walking, actually feeling pretty good that I was convincing enough from far away that these guys didn't figure it out until I walked nearer to them. Still no negative issues as a result, they probably had to scramble to reassemble their own manhood at that point and were more worried about that than messing with me.
People are cowards and hypocrites. I have seen a lot of hate against transpeople in Internet (and against many other people). However, in real life it really seems that nobody cares, the reason is that the people feels "safer" behind a computer screen so they can reveal more about themselves. Thus they can freely take aggressive postures in a virtual environment, when in real life they simply do not have the courage to reflect that. It is a good thing that people in real life is not as idiotic as they pretend to be in the Internet.
I had a similar situation. I locked myself out of my car, cell phone included. I asked someone to loan me their phone and called AAA. When AAA arrived I was expecting a rough houser dude that would mock me. I felt fortunate when it was a late middle age Asian gentleman. However, he seemed to take pleasure in calling me by my full name, on the AAA card, every chance he could.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi Stevens
Many years ago I was staying at the Philbeach in London. it is a hotel that is frequented by cross dressers and friends. In those days in had a bar in the basement, a Thai restaurant on the main floor and bedrooms above. I was in the bar and decided to go and change into leather fetish clothing. As I came downstairs I was in full view of the restaurant and a group of young women giggled. Not harmful of threatening and I was dressed in full fetish style, so i am sure I raised a few eyebrows.
Back at the bar it was all fun. Haven't been there for years. I hope it is still going strongly. Perhaps some of our London members can comment.
To date, I’ve never had anyone flat out ask me if I was a man or a woman. I’ve never been hassled by anyone or threatened either. I am aware that if anyone gives me a second thought or glance, then they may indeed wonder or even know. I used to be more cognizant of lingering stares or being pointed out, and perhaps that still occurs. I’m just immune to that anymore. Any instance where I was interacting with someone, they absolutely know, but if it was uncomfortable with them, they didn’t show it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Yes, it is easy to bitch online. But does that mean these people don't actually hold these views in real-life, that it's just some act they're putting on? Bull. They *do* care -- stop pretending otherwise, despite the overwhelming amount of evidence out there. One could even argue that you're sounding like those who are in their own delusional fog, whom you apparently love to chide here from time to time. And yes, sometimes these are not anonymous internet comments -- unless you consider using their Facebook accounts to post them, as such?
Again, they *do* care.
Does that mean you'll hear about it to your face? Not typically. Believe it or not, there is actually some sort of semblance of law & society out there. But you aren't completely oblivious in your surroundings, either, I assume? Just because you don't hear it or see it at the time, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The OP asked if anyone has ever been challenged/hassled/threatened. People are answering -- not simply "dwelling on the negative," but simply sharing some of their experiences, openly & honestly. Are some also holding back? Perhaps. I know I am, anyway, as to respect forum rules. And there's plenty enough that dictates that they are, indeed, sometimes on the receiving end of this kind of stuff. There's also plenty of the same elsewhere on this forum over the years. How is this some sort of crutch, again? :strugglin
And don't act like it's always entirely the CD'er's fault, as you've done elsewhere, that they simply weren't holding their head up high enough & their shoulders back as much as they could be. Please.
I'm happy you say it hasn't yet happened to you. But if & when does, that grain of sand may very well feel like Everest to you at that moment, and possibly even for a while afterwards.
You've heard of low-probability/high-impact occurrences, yes? Stuff can sometimes get a lot more serious than just some harmless name-calling or whatever. Just ask those who end up in the hospital -- or 6 feet under. But I guess you'll call that "insignificant," as well?
Anyway, enjoy your shopping trips to Nordstrom. ;)
I've never been challenged at such.
I imagine there's people that saw me in public and questioned themselves, but hey, it is what it is.
:)
I've only been out twice and I would hardly call it being out as I was away from my car for all of about five or ten minutes each time and not very far from it.
The first time was at a business area of office condominiums. I had put my makeup on in the car and tied a hijab around my neck and head, was covered with skinny jeans and long sleeve tunic type shirt. I was taking photos that I hoped to share here. I got honked at by a guy driving by but then a short few minutes later there was one guy who slowed down a lot and after passing me he turned around to get another look. Kinda freaked me out a little because I didn't know if I had been made or if he thought I really was a girl and he wanted to try something or if the hijab made him think to hurt me. Lucky for me I was inside a locked gated area and he kept on going down the road.
It happened again recently that I had a rare day off from work and again, makeup at the dashboard vanity. Being quite hot and humid here in southeast Texas, I opted for a pair short denim shorts, a cami and sandals. I got out to try some pics but I guess that outfit with a long wig and I don't know... I just felt like guys who were driving in the park "hovered" longer than would be normal. A couple of them drove by me two and three times despite me moving my car to another part of the park. Freaked me out.
I know it's not much and doesn't compare to others and what they've described but it was an unnerving feeling.
I have been going out since 2007, probably close to a thousand times, always interacting with complete strangers. I have never had a harsh comment made to my face, nor to my back as I walked by. I have heard a catcall a couple of times, whether because I was read as trans (maybe once) or just a woman passing by. I have been asked directly a few times if I was a real woman, or a man. Those questions came when I was interfacing with someone, which I do every time I am out, mostly strangers. I have also been doubted when I have told a rare few that I am not a GG, needing to show my drivers license as proof. All questions to me like that have been made in a civilized manner out of true curiosity. I personally love those questions because it gives me more incentive to talk with them.
Laura, Yes, shit can happen, in any mode. Just like riding an airplane, it can crash, but we still take one when we need to go long distances because we know the odds are way in our favor, while being in a car is actually more dangerous. When many of us recommend to hold your head high, act like you own the place, it is really just one other way to make it easier for all of us to go out and enjoy those special moments. If one walks around looking at he ground, behind their back or acting obviously nervous and uncomfortable where they are at, they will definitely attract more attention, attention that a lot here try to avoid. Do people talk behind our back? Of course they do, just as I may talk behind their backs if there is something about them that motivated me to make a comment or respond to a comment from whomever I am with. That is human nature, sometimes not at its finest.
It sounds like the OP is trying to get out more and has concerns. My recommendation is, if you want to go out, please do so. Pick your venue, your outfit and time of day that will make you most comfortable. Fear is understandable and can usually b e easily overcome, especially after a few times out. Always best to go with somebody who can help one's confidence when that confidence may be a little fragile. Good luck and enjoy.
My second time out, a cop stopped me late at night, was concerned why i had been walking trough the town, when almost everything was closed, and that my driving was nervous. He said nothing about my crossdressing. The nest day, i went to several towns, cities, stopping to walk around, and a couple of rednecks yelled at me as they drove by. later that day, got laughed at a a drive up window, later that day, a man with his family had a dead car battery , and my car was parked right next to his, and he waited and waited for me to stop walking and come to my car, then asked if I would give him a jump start. i said yes, and he then told his kids to not look!! The first wig i ever had, which i wore those times, was too short, and not fitting well . Oh, and yet another thing that day, some teenage girl screamed, OMG , from about 100 feet behind me, as i walked down a sidewalk. No other incidents. I only go out up to six or 10 times a year, though. I opened up about m being a Cd to a few cashiers, and they had to look for a bit, before they realized it, at first. Did a good job that night. I also realize we live in a very stressed out, difficult world, and people are many on edge today, and anything to set them off, when they are given chance, just might let some of their frustration vent. It is not easy to survive today financially, socially, fine affordable housing, deal with wall to wall people everywhere in an over populated, dangerous society. We have to be cautious, yet confident, and expect a lot of people of all kinds of attitudes. Many are on the edge today/
Has anyone questioned me? Yes, but I also know I am fooling no one. I am very open to anyone who wants to have a discussion about me.
Hassled me? Never, but I am also smart about where I go, but have been to hundreds of different places.
Threatened me? No.
Allie,
I'm the original post. Love your spirit
Thanks. I am so there.
I assume it wasn't a gay bar since you quoted a Broadway musical and he was confused (Rent, Angel's funeral)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodi
To answer the OP. Yes I have been. Usually it is a younger person. The worst was in Oakland CA for my pre-op exam. A young woman, late teens at best, called out "Excuse me...are you a man or a woman?" I said "Yes". She asked again. I told her I was a woman. She answered in a crude way that she would still sleep with me. This was minutes after I had passed 3 people 2 women one jerk. The women smiled and walked by. The dipstick said "Have a good evening SIR" Also had two young couples earlier loudly voice their feelings on me. All this in an area Oakland likes to brag about being the tourist part of the bay. Maybe I was having a bad day
Lori, and others along this thread;
When I read your story and others like it, I'm disappointed to find some suspicions true. Sad, and you handled it with grace and dignity, as have the many Sisters (below) who related similar narratives. Sorry you had to endure that.
Now for my mea culpa.
As a lad I was literally forced into rough play, sports. My parents knew I was a sissy. Looking back, they did all they could to suppress that natural state. I ended up hanging with the "jock crowd" much of the time; though I loved the arts, music and science. This was the mid-late 60s, so you can imagine the rough times GG's endured in terms of vulgarity, sexual assault, naming/shaming, etc. That was the same social crowd that called 'effeminate' boys the F-Word; much in fashion then to describe nearly any male defect.
I can't say I ever said anything ugly to girls or ever engaged in unwanted touching. Wasn't brought up to be that impolite. And the same for insults thrown at the "girly" boys and sissys, of whom I secretly was. BUT.... I stood by, using the pack as cover lest I reveal my own feminine side, and I said nothing. I let it go, acting like it was the thing to do.
I wish I'd had the moral courage the time to speak up, and stop the insults. I am sorry; sorry that people who are born to this - whatever THIS is for you - had to endure a life growing up with the cat calls and insults to your humanity. I'm sorry that by going along with the crowd, I was violating my own spirit.
I see so many beautiful faces and people on this forum. Those who were born near the male/female genetic margins, who grew up androgynous, my heart goes out to you for the anguish and bullying you likely endured. My attitudes changed greatly once I had a family and daughters; and I knew better than to be a fool. I also empathized with the very real lives of girls in ways I never understood before, and it informed my senses as to what it meant to be a woman; to have a connected female spirit within.
I tell you with all my heart, you are all beautiful and you're blessed.
Lori, and others who apparently seek to live their life full time as a woman, I not only get it. I applaud you. It takes guts, as you've described. I continue to marvel at the kind help and sound advice I have received via this forum. Thanks.
I was approached by a man while I was perusing the womens rack in a thrift store. He told me I'd never fit into to that. I looked him in the eye and said "I know, but a girl can look". He quickly walked away.