Reasons for wives/girlfriends not accepting or participating

Jessica,
There are so many reasons, and women are all different in their acceptance level.

Some may consider their wives the strong one, they deal with far more of everyday life than the men but saying that they are only strong because we give them security, and that needs a man who does the right male things. If we suddenly announce we wear or want to wear women's clothes the secure World suddenly falls apart. Some of them deal with it because they understand enough to realise they haven't lost the man they married, they have a deep enough love to help him through the problem. Others just can't see past the fact that their partner may want to become a woman and need to be with a man, even thinking he was gay all along, so she does feel cheated .

My wife simply says she wants the man she married , she still has him but she didn't know then that he was a CDer, I know the honesty issue has been brought up many times but simply telling her before you married just isn't that simple, but that's for another thread maybe.

I do think sometimes that I would still like the woman I married, to be realistic we all change with age but at times I get the feeling of being cheated, that certain things weren't said.

I know in a recent thread that someone made the comment that the wife had turned to physical violence through the CDing problem, I feel strongly now we shouldn't be treated like punch bags and continually punished over something we can't change, we are just wired that way and the dressing is an outward sign of dealing with an inner need. I'm sorry to bring this up again but I don't see it as a hobby and I feel it's an insult to my wife and family to call it that , but I do realise now that some do share it with their partners and enjoy that lifestyle together. I'm seeing that more now I'm meeting others socially, I was very surprised how many are accompanied by their partners.

I nearly separated from my wife, simply because the void between my dressing needs and her acceptance level was too wide, it would have been on amicable terms but importantly it did bring us to the point where we had nothing to lose but to talk sensibly about it , so we worked out a compromise. It's not ideal but she still has the man when she needs him and the children still have dad .

You need to figure out what makes a woman tick.

If she is attracted to alpha males and only dates alpha males, she won't be accepting of crossdressing. Most women are attracted to alpha males. Not all of them end up getting to marry alpha males though. There are only so many alpha males to go around. A lot of women hold out for their alpha male to commit and marry, and it never happens. So they end up having to settle for a non-alpha male because the biological clock is ticking and she will eventually need to marry someone for resources and to have kids. When women settle for a non alpha they are not actually attracted to him, and are just using him for sperm/resources until she can divorce him. So if he was a crossdresser, she'd really not be OK with it and use that as a reason in the inevitable divorce.

Awesome! That's the way it's supposed to work.

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Originally Posted by Samm

Hi Jessica, Before we were married, I fessed up to my SO. Well, she basically had to pry it out of me. She knew I was holding on to something. So the day I told her, the only words i could get out were "I like girl clothes"... She stopped for a second, laughed a little, and then said, "is that all?" Our relationship has only grown since then. But I knew when we met that someday, if I told her, she would probably be accepting. I guess I'm one of the few lucky ones.

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dolovewell, that makes those women sound so shallow... All the women I know seem so nice. I just can't believe that the majority could be like that. I know women have preferences. Everyone does. But to just 'settle' with someone because your biological clock is ticking? To trick them into believing they're in a loving relationship? That sounds extremely cruel.

I agree, that's a very slanted chauvinist "insight" to a woman's psyche. Wonder what your avg gg would say to this.

Also I believe being up front from the jump greatly affects the outcome in general. Ovulation everyone is different, but once married, it's a hugelie that was withheld.

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Originally Posted by Krisi

I can only guess and my guess is that little girls dream of marrying a prince on a white horse and when they see their "prince" prancing around the house in a tutu and heels, it's a big letdown.

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(personal note, most here don't prance and most don't do tutu' and you just reinforce stereotypes for the visitors who can and do see this.) Now here's my thought on why a woman leaving a guy crossdresser isn't as you envision unless you are saying men don't care about trivial stuff as much as women (that is a fallacy) If we go with your thought that "little girls dream of marrying a prince on a white horse" and then....little boys have fantasies too. Most of the time is doesn't end in divorce when the woman doesn't fit the mold. How many men see themselves marrying the perfect princess, specific body type, flawless skin? And yet that rarely happens. Things change with time for one. Less dresses, more sweats. Less perfect lady, more great friend and partner who gets down and dirty with you. I cannot think of many things in a marriage that don't have an aura of letdown. Life isn't unicorns and rainbows and especially when you really get to know your spouse

Every time this thread raises it's ugly head I say the say thing. It isn't the clothes so much as how you hide and sneak an erode a trust. How crossdressers think they know MORE what is in the woman's mind than they do. How they don't give the woman a chance to make a decision before they get 20 years deep in the relationship. In virtually every failed marriage of people I now it is loss of trust or just not sharing the same life goals anymore. They may say that such and such is part but it comes down to trust and compatibility

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As crossdressers, it's hard to imagine this, but think how a normal man would feel if his wife cut her hair short, bound her breasts and wore a fake beard.

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And here's another personal thought (sorry Krisi, you're points are well taken, but your post allows me to point out fatal flaws in rote answers). In this world we live in, we don't really get to know someone before we decide to make a life commitment. Even if you are together for years, holding back a piece of information that you know can effect your future makes the whole thing shaky. If you think something would make your partner NOT want to be with you, you should tell them. Now to the quote above. I believe that you marry the person, not the image. The shell can and will change. Many women cut their hair short later in life, many of those go wit what men may think looks masculine. Hey, men love long hair on the women, so this is a shock. But you don't divorce them over it. Other things change to less "feminine" as people envision it here, the body changes, the voice deepens, the clothing choice changes. And yes I know men who throw over their spouse when that happens. They are petty. I know many women who have facial hair now. That pencil thin mustache doesn't turn off many guys ho know them (a full beard may, but I know women who don't like me with a beard also). In my fairy tale world, you marry someone because you don't care what they look like, you marry them for what is in their heart. Because the heart changes slowly but forever if you do things that undermine the relationship. If treated correctly, you can change a heart for the better also, but that is a slow process too. Love makes it do this. It will hold out longer hoping you can see that you are hurting it and it will soften if you allow it time to get used to the change. If you love someone, you work to keep it. Until trust is gone.

Lori Leah, when it comes to mid life changes, they happen gradually over a period of years. Same thing happens to men. Loss of muscle mass and strength, stamina, sexual stuff declines.....

We accept this (some) as the normal aging process. What if it all just happened in one day? Another thing too, and this goes into what you say about the lying, denial, sneaking etcetera.... the mid life aging process, women and men are still the same, just less physically able, attractive, sexual to a degree, but they are still primarily the same person.

Reasons why imo? The lying and all that. Major trust breaker. If a person can hide the nature of their gender identity, they can hide anything. Doesn't mean they will, or do, but I suspect many partners will always feel this way. (Some on here have stated this)

Social issues play a part of course. We are conditioned to think and act as expected of our assigned gender. And we expect our partners to do the same. Our friends and families expect us to pick partners within the gender norm. I'm not saying this is right, just is what it is.

Lastly, there is I suspect a biological reason as well. Now, I'm going partially by discussions with my wife. But I'm taking other women's thoughts, articles I've read.....

Why the alpha male? He's often not even the best choice. Sexuality is one reason. The masculinity is a real biological turn on.

What I think is as great or maybe even a greater issue at work is the feeling women will get of being protected. Who's more likely to fend off a would be attacker (at least in their minds) the alpha male or a transgender woman? Who's more likely to save them and or the children in a fire or some other catastrophe? Whose more likely to have respect of their friends and in the community? A woman dating a known bad ass often is not messed with as much because the guys fear him and don't want him coming around. Will they have the same respect/fear of a transgender woman? Again, this isn't what I think is necessarily correct, it just is what it is. IMO of course.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

... If you think something would make your partner NOT want to be with you, you should tell them.

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I thought this was very sound advice and stated more succinctly than I can remember. It does however, raise the question of a very common complication: A young man who has intermittently experimented with cross dressing during adolescence falls in love. He is so crazy about her that he'll do anything to win her, so it seems like a no-brainer that he will simply abandon a childish interest in feminine things that is also a social taboo. So suppress it he does, and his girlfriend eventually becomes his wife. The marriage is a good one, but over the years, the urges that he thought he'd disposed of return to haunt him. He never imagined he would have to deal with them, but terrified of the consequences, he indulges them in secret. Eventually he either confesses or is found out, and his wife -- quite naturally -- feels betrayed. With love, compassion, and patience on the part of both, the relationship may be able to be saved, even if it means some renegotiation. There are lots of examples of that among the membership here. On the other hand, returning to Lorileah's quote, even those of us who have been through it can't escape the feeling of, "If I'd only known then what I know now."

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Originally Posted by Jesse Six

Hi Jessica,
Looking at the relationships of CD and TS people in my city, there's a stark difference. Closeted CDs can often come to some agreement with their wives. TS women are almost all divorced.

I think it's the degree of 'realism' that bothers women. How it affects your core identity.
If your wife can convince herself that her hubby is still an alpha male, who just has an unusual (and private) hobby, then she can sort of keep the attraction going.
If you start talking about how much you feel like a woman, and how you want the world to hear about it, don't be surprised if her acceptance turns into anger.

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Well said Jesse. I agree

My wife and I are both well in to our sixties. I had dressed and purged only lingerie on and off for decades. I had a profession where I travelled and could relax in lingerie in my hotel room. Once during the nineties..and our memories our vague I dressed in my lingerie in front of my wife...she really did not react...and we let it go. I have been retired for two years so am home every night. I wanted to dress again and was really wound up about it. I adore her and wanted to include her...pay attention-I wanted-that in itself is a fairly selfish act..I did not ask..I wanted..
Six weeks ago-I felt I was going to explode. I came home, sat next to her and told her my episode of years ago was not an isolated event..I had been dressing in lingerie our entire marriage on and off. She listened and accepted me as she always has. Like many here..after the emotional release you go,overboard..she told me to calm down. I could dress in our home...as I am petrified of ever being in public....just don't push her. She is right..I am the one who changed..not her.
She will do my make up and is helpful..but tells me that the fact "that I have great legs" in hose satisfies me...not her. She's right. What was really helpful to both of us was one day, I made tea, gave her a pen and a writing pad..and said you are a therapist now..treat me as a patient and not your life long lover-ask questions..and I promise to hold nothing back. It was a good session for us both as she asked about my history starting with child hood. My professional life included military service where great risks were involved. She feels my bravado and overwhelming curiousity nurtures my cross dressing. I even told her I have bi sexual fanatasies and desires and she just asked and we felt fulfilled by the talk. I actually told her that I envied her vagina as it must be heaven to be penetrated..she was not put off. In a month..give it time...we will have more "therapy"..it seems to be a good approach for us. She will not have sex with me dressed..that's fine. I told her my real overriding desire is for us to dress together. She's not there yet...but I know her..and in the future I think I be recounting to you folks...that next adventure. When my packages arrive..she informs me..and helps me dress if I ask-I feel very fortunate.
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Originally Posted by Jenni Yumiko

I agree, that's a very slanted chauvinist "insight" to a woman's psyche. Wonder what your avg gg would say to this.

Also I believe being up front from the jump greatly affects the outcome in general. Ovulation everyone is different, but once married, it's a hugelie that was withheld.

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Originally Posted by Periwinkle

dolovewell, that makes those women sound so shallow... All the women I know seem so nice. I just can't believe that the majority could be like that. I know women have preferences. Everyone does. But to just 'settle' with someone because your biological clock is ticking? To trick them into believing they're in a loving relationship? That sounds extremely cruel.

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You can say its shallow and chauvanist all you want but it doesn't change the fact that its true. Women have employed a dual mating strategy for centuries. Alpha Lays/Beta Pays.

Women seek out alpha men to satisfy them sexually. Women use beta men for their resources and as a provider. Ideally a woman will find an "Alpha Buck", both an alpha male who is also a good provider qualities, but those are not common, and those men, if they commit to a woman, will only select the highest value women. So they end up holding out for an alpha as long as they can, until they realize they won't be able to lock one down, so they settle for a beta male for the resources.

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Originally Posted by Ressie

................. But there's another reason for some women. Some women just think it's sick. Some see CDing as a psychotic perversion. The idea of their husband crossdressing is disgusting!

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That's the view of the general public. That's the reason some of us keep it inside and that's the reason some otherwise accepting wives insist that we keep it inside.

Loroleah, WELL SAID! Trust, honesty and communication keep a relationship together! My wife and I were married 34+ years. She made it clear from the get go only one woman in relationship. In 34+ years I wore panties ~3 times and purged each time. She never found out but they were isolated incidents and basically did not dress entire marriage. We had usual disagreements and things but generally a very happy marriage for both. We raised two great kids. Our life together was good,but there was trust, honesty and (my hardest) communication! Hugs Lana Mae

Jessica, I get it. I am six foot six, 263. I am outdoorsy raised in farm country. One lady said i look masculine, and should not be puttin womens things on. But.., i have never been an Alpha male, or able to provide well financially. I was picked on in schools, and in the work place, too. But, i did venture into sports, some. played a lot of sandlot baseball, football, basketball, even liked hockey, but never was violent witha killer instinct much. have fished and cleaned my own fish all my life. But, never had many women interested in me. They do go for power broke Alpha types, seldom for humble, sensitive types with little money. Money is a huge attraction, whether a macho alpha, or a beta.

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Originally Posted by dolovewell

You can say its shallow and chauvanist all you want but it doesn't change the fact that its true. Women have employed a dual mating strategy for centuries. Alpha Lays/Beta Pays.

Women seek out alpha men to satisfy them sexually. Women use beta men for their resources and as a provider. Ideally a woman will find an "Alpha Buck", both an alpha male who is also a good provider qualities, but those are not common, and those men, if they commit to a woman, will only select the highest value women. So they end up holding out for an alpha as long as they can, until they realize they won't be able to lock one down, so they settle for a beta male for the resources.

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Surprised to see this kind of MRA/PUA BS on a crossdresser forum.

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Originally Posted by Jessicafreed

I forgot to mention that I am a 6' tall 300# masculine male about 90% of the time with work and family engagements. If you met me you would never guess that I love wearing skirts and heels. My dressing just gives my wife and I something to do together and have endless topics to talk about. She actually helped me realize it is a part of who I am and not to repress it which would eventually hurt her and our family.

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I suspect that the fact that (as you describe yourself) are very masculine looking and don't pass is of help in being accepted by your wife. If she still sees a man when you're dressed, then you're not a threat to her femininity. If you looked like an attractive female when dressed, I suspect that her attitude would be different.

I told me wife-to-be about my dressing several months before we were married because I wasn't comfortable waiting until after we married, and initially, she thought it was non-threatening and funny, and asked to see photos of me dressed. When I produced photos, and she saw that I could look reasonably passable (at least in photos), she freaked out and forbade me to ever dress again and she also insisted that I purge all my stuff and destroy my photos. I was only 21 when we married and didn't know myself yet, so I agreed to destroy everything and not dress anymore because I loved her, and we got married. Of course, I found that I couldn't live up to my promise and we divorced a few years later.

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Originally Posted by TinaMc

Surprised to see this kind of MRA/PUA BS on a crossdresser forum.

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So what?

I have other beliefs that most people here probably wont like.

Just because I am a crossdresser doesn't mean I have to think a certain way and hold certain political and societal beliefs.

Get used to it. We come from all walks of life.

Not all women want money or a meat head! What we want is honesty, trust, understanding, loyalty, forgiveness, a best friend, love and devotion. If you dont have these things there is no happiness or relationship. Some people are shallow but men are guilty of this too.

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Originally Posted by dolovewell

So what?

I have other beliefs that most people here probably wont like.

Just because I am a crossdresser doesn't mean I have to think a certain way and hold certain political and societal beliefs.

Get used to it. We come from all walks of life.

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No that's fine, I'm all for people having their own beliefs and so on. But the pop evolutionary psychology pedalled by MRA and PUA groups is far from factual. It's utter nonsense . Same goes for the paleo lifestyle movement, and for the same reason.

It's surprising to see it here because a crossdresser who believes this crap must have a fairly low opinion of themself.

My first wife was into it for a while but with fears of someone finding out, me running around on her, and generally, she liked to be the woman. We were both non-alphas. My current wife I told before our marriage and assured her that I had no desires of running around on her, that I would protect our secret using whatever it takes, would learn how to be dominant from her when she wanted me to be, and if we ever did venture out or whatever I would always include her and only do it with her blessing. We had a big advantage from the beginning because she is a girly girl with a fondness for pantyhose too and found me to be a big turn on wearing them, especially during sex. She has even admitted to having bisexual desires but never followed through with them so she says she got a 2 for 1 deal. Heels, make up, wig, etc just followed and she was my mentor all the way. So I truly believe that the Law of Common Ground rules on finding our perfect SO and if she's a girly girl and not selfish then that will help. Find out which girly girl thing she loves the most and start there. (

See, sometimes we think it's all about us, which it's not. It's about our SO. I tend to beg for compliments and reactions when she's not in the mood when she really just wants me to be me when I'm dressed. Sometimes, I'll drop hints and when she wants to play then it's on. They have to look at us, put up with us, and feelings of fear will sometimes ruin the entire situation. You have to use lots of discretion and make it about them, especially in the beginning. They have to WANT to be your fem mentor and as your life partner they should be, put them in that position mentally and realize that sometimes they just want their man.

On the other hand, some women just aren't into it. You have to figure that out on your own and go from there. If CDing is truly what you want in your life then waiting and testing various prospects will be worth the wait.

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Furthermore, I have always believed that if you choose to have an SO, have an SO, or desire to come out to your SO that we are at their mercy. At the end of the day and especially the next day, it's their opinion that counts- but I am just a realist that way.

I've been wrestling with this over a year now with my wife who says she doesn't mind, is ok with OTHER men dressing in women's clothes, but not me. She went with providing me a safe space to dress, and is happy it was so good for me, but it creates a huge tension in her and that spills out in negative ways. I'm trying to figure out a way to get enough hours in a skirt and mend my psyche, without inflicting it on her.

To the point about why it is so difficult- I think we all are a lot less organized than we would like- the array of thoughts and emotions, impulses, unconscious drives and reasoning, etc is just too complex, and so the usual result is just trying to muddle through with the bottom line of being kind to each other, and compromising on things in order to have a partnership. Lorileah's point about really making sure your life partner has no issue with crossdressing is a priority, since it is a lot more fundamental to us than liking auto racing- for which there are probably acceptable substitutes. Finding a life partner is not an easy task - but this is a known hazard!