CD/TV Sighting

I don't hunt for CDs in public, but I see them sometimes. I've unintentionally come face to face with CDs in stores a few times. Over the years I've learned to treat it as a non-event.

About a month ago I ran into a couple at the grocery store (a man and a woman standing in front of the frozen food section). In a friendly, civil way I had to ask them to move a bit. It turns out that the woman I was conversing with was a CD. She had no fear of the encounter at all, and of course I interacted as I would with any fellow human in a grocery store.

Things have changed IMO. About 20 years ago I came (unintentionally) face to face with a crossdresser at a store. She looked very shocked because she could tell by the look on my face that she'd been clocked. I looked away because I felt that I was invading her space (by the look on her face). At that point she fled the scene quickly!

My first sightings and encounters with CDs in public took place about 40 years ago.

It might be easier to grasp the issue here, if we put ourselves in that other person's shoes. You're out, en femme, shopping (or whatever), and an unknown stranger (male) makes overtures that would be inappropriate given the situation. I'm not saying that there aren't boorish men who do that all the time. There are, and that's the point. To a cross dresser or trans person in that situation, our stranger is not just another boor. We're already skittish and now he's... what? Hitting on us? About to mock us? Worse?

I get it. I've told the story of the trans woman I used to regularly encounter at the supermarket. I wanted so badly to give "the secret sign" and "share" with her, but we were just two strangers in the grocery store. Normal social decorum in that venue dictated that I could do little more than smile if we made I contact. So that's what I did, and it still unnerved her. Imagine what anything more forward would have done.

This exchange reminds me of the comedian Henry Cho's bit about Koreans. Henry is a second-generation Korean American from (I think) Tennessee who speaks with a pronounced Southern accent. So he makes jokes about people doing double-takes when they hear an Asian speaking (as he puts it) "like a hillbilly". One such bit is people who think that he must know all the other people in his city who are of Korean descent, as if having some trait in common means you all know each other.

Being a CD can seem like that, that "Oh, there's another one!" thought. In defense of Julie's OP, I read simply noticing and noting without any kind of untoward approach or outward reaction, and that's certainly harmless enough, but Lorileah makes an undeniable point if it goes beyond noticing and quietly, internally noting. None of us owes a sister acknowledgment in public, and they don't owe us. For every chance it might be welcome as kindred spirits, there are a dozen reasons why it might induce discomfort or even panic.

I do like the melt-your-makeup imagery, however. Raiders of the Lost Ark?

You couldn't have, I was no where near MA.

I love Lorileah's answers and everyone should completely take them to heart but I'll say this: use your noodle.

When I'm out around town I often wear a necklace with a transgender symbol on it -- that's actually there to encourage conversation. I can't be outed because of the way I view my identity, so as long as you're polite and I have time, I'm happy to engage. I won't say it's automatically safe to approach someone wearing trans jewelry or other paraphernalia but I think my general deportment invites people to approach and I think that's pretty obvious. If someone is not giving off an approachable vibe or if you just don't know, please err on the side of caution. There have been times in my development where someone even looking at me would send me scurrying along the baseboard.

When finding an uncommon commonality with someone else, I want to connect. To say, I get it, and I relate. I tend toward the side which seeks to boost confidence, and acceptance, and reduce the all too common, and growing animosity I see in the world. If anyone wants to feel more comfortable with their true self, and feel more accepted in society, then they will need to accept being treated humanely, in society. And for me, that all starts with the simplest of polite, pleasantries, a smile. I'm not hunting anyone for sport. I didn't make up the term, in the wild, just using the common lexicon of terminology for this forum. So much drama and conflict in the world, which also goes for some here. Came close to signing out here for good, but there are so many nice people here that I will stay and hope the tide turns toward the positive side that is happy for improvement in our CD situation and for better treatment of all people everywhere.

I know how you feel and support you. I hope the atmosphere here becomes more cheerful and encouraging. However as you mentioned a few kind words while being thrashed is encouraging.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Yeah, I'm hostile.

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I agree 100%

Julie , If you are ever in Cincinnati And see me in a mall ( I am a shopaholic) come up and say hi ! This goes for anyone here ! I have been approached a number of times and people have said " i like your skirt " or "that outfit is cute". I am sure they suspected I was TS and I often will confirm that to them if they are nice . If you see someone who you might want to talk to who you think may be a TS or CD be polite and complement them . It is up to them if they wish to tell you if they are TS or Cd or whatnot .

Lorileah , If I saw you in public, I would certainly come up to you and compliment you on your outfit if I thought it was cute :)

No way Jenn that's crazy :)

I need to wrap my head around this mentality, I really do.

So Your fully dressed and out in the public but NO ONE, CD or otherwise, should stop and talk to you? How do you control that situation from happening? I would think that if your brave enough, and sure enough about who you are, to be out and about, fully dressed, that you should also be willing to have interaction if it presents itself.

I know that if I were brave enough to be out there that another sister approaching me would be a lot more welcome than a muggle who's intentions are clearly unknown. Yes they might just being nice but they could also be looking to do you harm.

and cheap makeup? you assume too much. Your the only one who buys high end cosmetics?

Gotta agree with Joanne here..

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Originally Posted by immindy

Lorileah , If I saw you in public, I would certainly come up to you and compliment you on your outfit if I thought it was cute :)

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you should introduce yourself before hand and I always look cute ;)

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Originally Posted by ~Joanne~

So Your fully dressed and out in the public but NO ONE, CD or otherwise, should stop and talk to you? How do you control that situation from happening? I would think that if your brave enough, and sure enough about who you are, to be out and about, fully dressed, that you should also be willing to have interaction if it presents itself.

I know that if I were brave enough to be out there that another sister approaching me would be a lot more welcome than a muggle who's intentions are clearly unknown0

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So you think you know what people should be 'brave' enough to do when out, but your not 'brave' enough to go out yourself. Why not go out and see how brave you are then.

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Originally Posted by ~Joanne~

So Your fully dressed and out in the public but NO ONE, CD or otherwise, should stop and talk to you? How do you control that situation from happening? I would think that if your brave enough, and sure enough about who you are, to be out and about, fully dressed, that you should also be willing to have interaction if it presents itself.

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You would huh? You don't know the person, you don't know their intent. Most people have personal space. You don't violate that space. it's just respect. And then you add

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I know that if I were brave enough to be out there that another sister approaching me would be a lot more welcome than a muggle who's intentions are clearly unknown.

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Did I miss the part where Julie was dressed or wearing the internationally known sign in bright pink neon that says "Hey! I like women's clothes too!" Julie was dressed as a muggle. Let's go to the tape

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Originally Posted by JuliePtown

Saw my first MTF CD/TV in the wild today. Not enough time to read sufficiently, but I'm pretty sure. Cambridge MA, well dressed, fairly heavy makeup for 0730. I offered a smile but the lady refused eye contact, like many women in the US. Maybe I was mistaken

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Nope wasn't dressed. Do you approach people with different ethnicity just to say "Hey I support you?" Do you approach a GG in public you don't know to say "Hey I like your _____?" (If you do be prepared for the results. In some areas that is sexual harassment).

Shall we address the brave context? You aren't by your own admission. So there you are, in public, seeing shadows at every turn and this man walks up to you and smiles. You have admitted you don't want muggles doing that but here is one. What do you do? You would be scared. You would run and hide. Then afterward you would sign on here and post about how this scary person OUTED you in public and that you didn't want that attention. By Julie's own admission she didn't know for sure...what IF it was a GG, you just insulted her. Even if she was trans...and especially if she was TS, you just outed her in public. It is rude. R U D E.

Nope, didn't say that at all. That's you twisting the words to suit your needs. Sorry I am not an English major and have trouble from time to time expressing myself properly. The whole subject is about approaching, or NOT approaching a sister while she is out at this point though the OP didn't start the subject that way. It was actually about SEEING a sister while she is out but it quickly became toxic and a whole other subject. It happens when the first negative nancy posts.

My post was about whether you actually have any control over who approaches you or not. If your out there, there's no way to stop ANYONE from approaching you, whether they are friendly or not, guess you'll find that out one way or another soon enough but I'd rather have a sister, in drab, approach me rather than a closed minded muggle who is out to do me harm.

It's funny that we have talked about how alone we felt before the internet came into being but we are still at that point when we are out and about to this day just because we are under some invisible CD rule that states you can't approach a sister to even say "Hi". The world doesn't change until WE change.

I'd rather have the guys from Publisher's Clearinghouse approach me but I am missing your point...I get the idea that if another CD who was dressed came up to you, you would welcome it. Cool, that happens at bars It doesn't happen at Sears. Even when I have seen people I suspect were Trans, I don't approach them. I also don't approach women who are alone or men who are handsome (or ugly come to think of it) or older people (unless it is obvious they can't get that can off the top shelf, then I grab it fr them AFTER asking if I can help and walk away). I don't approach anyone I suspect may be in some way feeling afraid or nervous.

As a TS, I don't want people to notice I am TS. I am a woman. I am in public as a woman all the time. If I saw you, as a CD, out in public I would assume you really don't want everyone staring and pointing at you. I don't. So I wouldn't approach you. If it were a social setting such as a bar or fund raiser, that MAY be different. But in a daily situation, no way (unless you were in distress...then I would). Why do you assume that normal rules of engagement are suspended because you belong to the same order (and especially if you are NOT presenting as that order)? Joanne, you confuse me. You are afraid to be out but say if you were you would WANT contact? It's contradictory. And I can pretty much promise that the vast majority of CDs here don't want people walking up to them in public. I KNOW the TSs here don't want you making a public display of seeing us (even if you know our tells). And in general any approach by any man, no matter HOW he is dressed, to a GG is considered rude and scary.

And I don't get this whole fascination of hunting transgendered people. We aren't birds in the park. Nor are we Yetis or Loch Ness Monsters. If we wanted people to approach us, we would let you know that (with a sign or name tag) I know you all want to have confirmation that you aren't alone. You would think being online here would be enough confirmation. If it isn't, how about joining your local Gender Center or going to events where TGs cluster. That should remove your feeling of isolation. Of course you have to get out. Support is awesome, we love support. Just not from people we don''t know in situations we don't want it

I haven't looked to see where you're from but the rules pretty much stay the same in small towns vs large cities albeit for different reasons.

What you see as a polite gesture might not be taken as such by someone else, as the responses on this forum have shown. I tend to agree with Lorileah on this one - I don't want anyone to notice me. In general, I assume that someone making eye contact with me and smiling is doing so because they are amused - not in a good way. Some may, some may not, but I've mostly experienced the negative part so I will pessimistic about intentions.

This regularly discussed topic of seeing someone similar in public is a common one here. I see that there are several, sides to it. One is just the seeing of someone similar as them, which can be good because it helps let them know that they are not isolated in the this not totally socially accepted side of life that they are involved with. They can also see how they dress and how other people react to them. All good for their own self confidence, and maybe helping them fine tune their own presentation style. If they see that person acting naturally and everyone around them doing the same, that can help them better accept themselves. Another may be the need or desire to meet someone similar to themselves and maybe get into a conversation about this side of themselves and how to make it work. This meeting and talking to goal is where caution is needed.

Once noticed what does the Noticer do? As said by many here, the direct approach and then self identification as "me too", is not the best way to go. Some, maybe many or most would not like that for all the reasons given above. I personally like it and am not ashamed of who I am or what I do. However, an indirect approach, i.e. an approach that one would use with anyone else by talking or commenting on the products nearby in the sore or the food on the menu with NO mention of trans/CD anything is fine. If a conversation develops that is great. If not, move on. A smile is not an intrusion on anyone's privacy and personal space, because strangers do that all the time when the make intentional or accidental eye contact. Women tend to smile and men tend to nod their heads. If the wary, shy, introverted receiver of such an encounter gets upset, in my opinion, that is a problem that they need to learn how to deal with because that type of informal encounter will happen every time when they are pout in the real world.

The ability to approach a complete stranger and start up a conversation or give a compliment to them for something in particular, a colorful or wordy T-shirt, nice outfit on a women, and even a sharp suit on a man in this world of business casual, can bring great rewards to both parties, even if very brief. This stay away from your unknown neighbor on the street is being taken way too far. We live in a social world and need to learn to function in it. That does not mean that strangers can rudely insert themselves in other's spaces. It also means that one can make their own personal space so large as to think that everyone else can avoid it.

Rude can be interpreted differently by each person. If one is shy, introverted or lacks workable social skills, they may interpret any contact with strangers as intrusions and rude, unless as Lori said one is in a specific area where they know it is unavoidable or it is their goal to try to interact with others, like a bar or club. I myself always interact with strangers with almost zero issues and zero serious issues. Forgetting about me, I see people interacting with strangers all the time in all types of circumstances, like in a restaurant when someone at the table next to them has something lightly embarrassing yet funny happen to them and then the table next to them join in the moment to empathize and support the person. It is part of living in the real world where we see and interact with people all the time.

Wow , I must be really out of touch with this , Lorileah, because I honestly make small talk with strangers all the time and often compliment GG's on what they are wearing if I like it . I also have had many compliment me . I also talk freely about me being TS if there is some kind of connection and the person seems inquisitive and comfortable. I also often smile and have smiled at those I suspected were CD's or TS's as well as anyone else that makes eye contact with me. Now you don't go up to a person and say " I think you may be a CD are you ? " . But making small talk with strangers if you are looking at the same thing in a store or whatever is pretty common I thought ? I do it all the time and have great experiences.

I did have a guy come up to me once and he asked if I was pre or post op and of course I told him that was rude and out of line and I told mall security . But , normally people are polite and since I am outgoing people tend to be outgoing toward me .

If this is the first time Julie spotted a CD after all these years I can see why it's a kind of a big deal to her. And I hope she is learning something from this group. New members often don't know what the culture of this forum is. I might have put my foot in my mouth 9 years ago!

More reality; For those that go out dressed frequently, there should be some expectation that someone is gonna approach you once in a while. It happens, and sometimes it isn't pleasant compliments. I wouldn't myself because I understand many out there aren't comfortable being out yet (myself included). And I want cross dressers to feel safe. Giving the look like "I know you're a guy" isn't cool. It's best to simply recognize someone as another person, which usually means not paying attention.

I agree with immindy,

I don't go looking for CD or TS, but can't say I have spotted any in my day to day activities, maybe thought it at times thou.

But as far as the complimenting other woman, I do that also, and I get quite a bit of that also. That is a natural thing I find among woman. And yes I quite often start up idle chatter with woman also. Because of my unique/weird styles I get asked a lot where I get stuff.

But with men, I seldom do the same. I tend to be suspicious of men other than the occasional smile.

For 40 years I was never stealthy, but felt if people would ask I would discuss. I may be oblivious to others at times, but I never had anyone ask or give me a hard time.

Now when out at LGBTQ clubs, when I see a CD or TS that I am not familiar with, I do make a smile and welcome them to our group. I have never had an unwelcome encounter doing that.

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Originally Posted by Jennifer Michelle

I believe I have seen one once in Wrigleyville near Chicago but I didn't get up the courage to talk to them or anything. They were with a group of ladies dancing so I felt like it might not be a good idea to approach them at the time. I thought they were pretty brave to come to such a crowded bar in the middle of Wrigleyville lol.

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I can almost guarantee you "saw one" in that neighborhood. It's just blocks from Boystown. Pinkfest takes place in Chicago every year around October and we are out and about all over the city. Watch for an announcement in the Events forum once we have the next dates nailed down. You'll be welcome. You'll meet new friends. I'm not from the Chicago area, but several attendees are.

OK, Julie saw what she believed was a crossdresser and she posted this sighting here. This is not the first time anyone has posted that they saw a crossdresser in public.

I honestly don't understand what the animosity and negativity is about from some people. This is a crossdressing forum and we are crossdressers. Her sighting is something that pertains to us. For those of us who go out in public, this is an affirmation that we are not alone. For those of us who haven't been out, this is an indication that we can go out, that others are doing it. It's "crossdressing news".

As for the smile, in parts of the country where people are not up tight and self centered, it's pretty common to smile at strangers if you happen to make eye contact. Not a "I know you're trying to hide a penis under that skirt." smile, but a "Good morning, fellow human, I hope you have a pleasant day." smile. What else are you going to do, look straight through them with no expression? Stare at the pavement? In my part of the country, people smile at each other. People smile at Homer and people smile at Krisi. And both of us smile back.

Again, there's too much negativity here. Sometimes if you have nothing good to post, it's best to not post anything and go on to the next thread. We don't want members to be afraid to post anything more controversial than "I got my ears pierced." or "I ordered a new dress today."

Julie, thanks for posting. I haven't seen any crossdressers in public in my part of the country except for my own reflection in a store window. Of course being retired, I'm not out every day like I used to be but even then I don't recall ever seeing one. Either they are doing a good enough job that they pass or they are staying home. And keep on smiling. It makes you feel better and it makes the people you meet feel better.

It's unfortunate that a few members of this forum seem to enjoy being aggressively negative and borderline confrontational in response to lovely posts. Thank you for sharing this story, Julie.

It's interesting to consider the thoughts expressed in varying threads. Currently, there is an active thread about whether or not CDs should go out in public if they're not passable. The overwhelming majority of respondents agree that very few CDs are passable and that passing isn't the point.

That considered, it's really fascinating that so many consider a stranger's smile to be a potential form of outing. If you go out, knowing you're not necessarily passable, how is someone noticing you and reacting outing you? You being out is outing yourself. If you don't want to be noticed, why are you out?

And this notion that people, recognizing some defining characteristic they share with others, don't often acknowledge that is patently false. Bus drivers, Jeep owners, motorcycle riders, etc. acknowledge one another when they pass on the road. Alumni of the same university, seeing their shared alma mater on clothing or elsewhere, will share a wave. Workers of the same industry, recognizing same by their similar uniforms, will exchange a knowing nod as they pass on a sidewalk. It is human nature to acknowledge others with whom you relate in some way. It's the foundation upon which society successfully functions.

So if a smile from a stranger sets you off, that's a personal problem. As Lauren noted, the world needs more people to smile, not less. Perhaps it would be better to simply smile back and go about your business rather than contemplate the ways you can ruin someone's day for directing a friendly, pro-social gesture your way. And if you're so scared of the big, bad world that a smile of support fills you with anger, confusion, or panic, perhaps you're not ready. You chose to go out in public, so expect to interact with the public.

If you can't accept yourself, how do you expect anyone else to accept you?