Do u think a male dressed in woman's clothes can be a "lesbian"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micki_Finn

My personal feeling is that if you identify as Crossdresser, then the lesbian label would not apply. If you identify as trans, as the trans community will tell you, trans women are women, therefore lesbian would be appropriate.

---

I tend to agree with you notwithstanding a few others who don't.

I have joked that I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body. However, my negative interactions with lesbians tells me, no.

I guess we could be described as a lesbian with benefits, but no lesbian would agree with that.

For me lesbian tendencies would be in the fore.

Traditional lesbian relationship views of men does not even bear thinking about

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micki_Finn

My personal feeling is that if you identify as Crossdresser, then the lesbian label would not apply. If you identify as trans, as the trans community will tell you, trans women are women, therefore lesbian would be appropriate.

---

This! It may be a fantasy for some and that's fine, but I don't think any of the women I've known who are lesbians would think that, except in the case of someone who is trans.

The quick answer is, NO

The fuller answer is, if you think you're a lesbian, then ask an actual lesbian, as they're the best placed to know what being a lesbian really is, and see what answer you get.

A few years ago I have discussed this with my GG friend Dark AnGGel. I am a heterosexual man in a dress. If I were a real woman, I would be a lesbian. was our conclusion. Simple as that.It is not sex that caused me to CD, it is the feel od the cloths etc. Also dressing out does not arouse me in any way. Dressing out etc. does give me warm fuzzes. I just love the feel and excitement I get when I can dress, even if I am not going out in front of ANYONE.

The simple solution is just to state your attraction rather than use a label. For example, I would simply say that I am 'female attracted'. This does not change with clothing or just how much my gender dysphoria is pulling me one way or the other at any one time. I can be presenting androgenous (normal for my NB identity), fully female, or even stood there stark naked with my male body and in all these cases I am still 'female attracted'. Simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaymees22

I guess we could be described as a lesbian with benefits, but no lesbian would agree with that.

---

So well put!

But to answer the question, it's a No from me, as I'm a friend with benefits too!
Stacy!

After some thought, I have concluded that only a woman can be a lesbian. But I do think that men who have transitioned would be counted in that number. But for the rest of us who range from infrequent panty wearers all the way up to those of us who may live and present as women full tim, as long as we have our parts, we are still heterosexual males who are attracted to women. I confess that it would be a fantasy of mine to be fully dressed, then undressed and then have wild sex with a GG but as femme as I might be in the entire fantasy experience, I would still be a mant having sex with a woman. Not really a lesbian.

This is a very thought provoking thread. I too have referred to myself as Lesbian because I present as female most of the time and only like women. It's a slippery slope because once you start questioning the labels it's starts getting very complicated. For example is a genetic female that considers themselves non binary, they them referring, that likes women a lesbian? Many would say YES. They most likely would disagree because they do not consider themselves women. To strip it all down to the root would be to say if you have a certain chromosome count then you are either male or female. Sex and Gender are separate things and the current definition of male and female does not seem to hold anymore with about 75 variations in gender and sex. I feel female inside most of the time even though I have male parts. I only like women. What label am I? I have no idea. I think it's dangerous to start questioning who is "woman" and who is not. There are just too many variations on the theme. We all need to step outside the box.

Roberta,

Eddie Izzard is making a statement to how he feels inside whether the term is right or wrong to others , I personally have to agree with him, part of me feels the same way . If a person makes a statement how they feel is it right for others to say it's stupid , I've been right with other gut feeling. When I expained my feelings along with my Cding history to my gender counsellor she did understand why I feel this way .

You simply cannot satisfy some people!
Roxanne

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

No. Only if she is dressed in miedeivel armor!
Roxanne

Wikipedia has a good section on transsexuality, and uses the terms gynophilic and androphilic to describe attraction- and these can be found in males and females, trans and cis, straight and gay. It is a simpler solution than claiming membership in the lesbian clan.

But, phili, do u think many people would understand those terms? At least most people think they know what a "lesbian" is!:heehee:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Teresa

Roberta,

Eddie Izzard is making a statement to how he feels inside whether the term is right or wrong to others , I personally have to agree with him, part of me feels the same way . If a person makes a statement how they feel is it right for others to say it's stupid...

---

That depends. People make stupid statements all the time. Saying that it's "how they feel" doesn't necessarily make it not stupid, especially their position is in contravention of plain facts.

This whole thread, two of them actually, is based on the glib or comic misappropriation of the term "lesbian". Trying to support an argument through such linguistic gymnastics is just plain, well... stupid. No one who can speak with any authority on the term, including every dictionary I can find, would seriously apply the term to a heterosexual man, his attire at the moment notwithstanding.

Aunt Kelly,
In your opinion for what it's worth !! Don't bother in making a reply I'm no longer interested in your opinion thanks !

folks in the wild just see a man in a dress. most people dont understand TG/non binary in general, but this made sense to me and thats who i care about these days.

sorry to boost this from another thread but its what this thread was attributed to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GretchenM

Ever since that "transbian" discussion, I have thought about this and have gone both ways. But after thinking in terms of concepts we have regarding sex and gender, I have come to the conclusion that a trans-woman can be a lesbian and be involved in a lesbian relationship, irrespective to the sexual identity or anatomy.

To me, a lot of this confusion originates in the way many relate gender identity and sexual identity and the use of gender terms in a sexual context and sexual terms in a gender context. To me sexual identity is male and female and that is determined genetically. And that is the end of that. Gender though is a different thing with very little connection to sexual identity genetics, that is, whether you have two X chromosomes or an X and a Y, plus the variations on this that produce an intersex condition with regard to morphology, anatomy, and physiology.

Gender is the role you "play" in the context of the social structure. The terms men and women and masculine and feminine are gender based terms. So, if you are a man and you identify with the more traditional role that women serve then you are, in terms of gender, a woman even though you are not female. But when we are not careful to keep the concept of these terms in their proper context we end up with cross meanings. Because most females are women (but not all) then we equate female and woman. Same thing if you start with males. That is, not all males are men. In fact they are far more women.

HRT and SRS completes the anatomical part, but the chromosomes are still the same. Does it matter? No, because the identity, the person we deal with is usually the gender person and not the chromosomal person. Thus, trans-women, in the gender context, are women. Can a trans women be a lesbian?

Here we have a blending of sexual identity and gender identity and that makes it difficult. Asking one question, at least for me, clarifies it. When you have sexual relations are you making love to the chromosomal identity, that is the sexual identity, or the person with the gender identity? For nearly all, it is the person and not their chromosomes that is the attraction. Therefore a woman who is genetically female and a woman who is genetically male can have a lesbian relationship because genetics really is not a factor; and attraction to each others gender identity is the driver. Therefore, using this reasoning, the answer is yes as to whether a trans-woman can be lesbian.

Sorry for all the more or less clinical talk about these technical aspects, but I think when we break down these things into smaller units, as Stephanie47 and others have suggested, the answer becomes much clearer.

---

i have a friend who affirms im lesbian, but i dont identify as "MAN"

I do not even want to understand! I just want to love him, no matter what kind of girl I am!
Roxanne, A Sweet Girl

All I know is that I have a significant feminine side to my character, I like to dress up as a woman, I'm exclusively sexually attracted to women, and I'd like to try lesbian, non-penetrative sex with a willing woman, preferably my wife!!! (but she won't play so I guess it's fantasy land for me as I have no desire to cheat).

Whatever that makes me, is what I am...

Paula, you make some good points, However This does not take into account hetro cis women who married a man that later transitioned. By your reckoning they would now be considered a lesbian simply because they decided to stay in the marriage. I know several who would have a few choice words for anyone who dared to call them lesbian.

Paige,

It is not so much that the person labeled likes the label or not. It is whether the label is correct.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Paige Dehart

Paula, you make some good points, However This does not take into account hetro cis women who married a man that later transitioned. By your reckoning they would now be considered a lesbian simply because they decided to stay in the marriage. I know several who would have a few choice words for anyone who dared to call them lesbian.

---

If the genetic female continued to have sexual relations with man that transitioned to a woman, then she is not a heterosexual woman at all any more in any way shape or form. Doesn't matter if she was married to her SO BEFORE the surgery or not. So, if she still has sexual relations with her spouse and doesn't like the label lesbian pansexual is a better label for her :)

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

As for the original question, my opinion is this. If you're a crossdresser and you're only attracted to women then you're just that, a dude who likes to crossdress. But if you identify as a woman and still are only attracted to women then you can IDENTFIY yourself as a lesbian to an extent. But a genetic female lesbian would likely have issue with a couple things if you were to ever try to have a date.

I do identify as a lesbian, and my cisgender lesbian friends agree. But I think of myself as a woman who hasn’t yet fully transitioned. If I thought of myself as solidly male, I would not use the lesbian term for myself. I started applying it to myself only after I accepted that a large part of my mind is female, and that I prefer socializing as a female.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ceera

I do identify as a lesbian, and my cisgender lesbian friends agree. But I think of myself as a woman who hasn’t yet fully transitioned. If I thought of myself as solidly male, I would not use the lesbian term for myself. I started applying it to myself only after I accepted that a large part of my mind is female, and that I prefer socializing as a female.

---

See and in my opinion there's nothing wrong with that. You were born male, but your mind,your heart,your soul, and everything inside you tells you that you're female so you chose to live as and identify as a female. That doesn't make you a homosexual male just because you feel you're female. So really there isn't a correct "label" to put on it other than "identifying as a lesbian female"