Are you bros with your gal pals?

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Originally Posted by michelleddg

SJ, thanks soooo much for sharing your lovely homage to your besties, so uplifting! And, thanks for understanding so completely what I was trying to convey in this thread. You and I have been chatting since 2011 and have made so many plans to meet up that just fell a bit short, but Spring 2020 in Las Vegas for sure. Book it, Danno! Hugs, Michelle

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I'm so glad you get where I am coming from. It was sort of a stream of consciousness post fueled by musical memories and more than a few tears. Yes, what you wrote resonated with me which is why I felt compelled to share. Even if you are the only one here who appreciates it, I'm so happy to have taken the time to put my feelings to paper.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Ahhh, yes, but how many guys love to get into conversations about babies, the lives of other women's children, relationships, commitment, and especially the 'what do you think he means when he does/says this', type of discussion? How about decorating the house? Picking out curtains/towels/furniture styles/paint colors? After going over the 27,000 possible different shades of white paint for our ceilings with one lady, along with the variable qualities of flat, semi gloss, gloss, I thought I was going blind and my head would explode.

Ugh, I'd rather drill screws through my toes.

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I'm not sure I'm understanding your POV, mostly because it is polar opposite to mine.

My dearly departed friend C and I used to close down restaurants with hours of the very conversation you disdain. I used to say that I'd never do such a thing with my "bro" friends but you know what? The love of communication is apparently part of my wiring and I am happy having meaningful conversations with anyone who I can call a friend.

The more things you have in common with a friend, the better, though
it's certainly viable to have pals with more narrow mutual interests.
I enjoy "talking shop" with others who have an enthusiasm for techniques
of female presentation (it's not a topic I get to chat about in my day-to-day
life, so I relish the opportunity); it's ideal if the interest overlap goes further.

I prefer the company of women however I am dressed. I do not know any other CDs and do not seek their company outside the web. The conversations I have with women when I am dressed are almost the same as when I am not and at most, less than 5% of the time will be related to clothes etc. I don't ever talk about or watch sport with anyone and am only slightly interested in cars (which limits conversation with a huge proportion of the male population). My closest friends have always been women and I find social situations such as parties where men congregate with men and women with women very uncomfortable. Women are every bit as capable as men in holding intelligent conversations about politics, music, science, books as men. The same goes for coming up with witty one-liners.

When I go out with my CD friends, I’m not entirely sure what we talk about, but we definitely have no shortage of conversation. I think a fair amount is about family (complaining about our wives), probably politics, maybe a little sports. Before going out we’ll text about outfit choices and will definitely talk about such things while shopping.

But, I think I agree that the best way to describe a night out with my friends is that it’s very much like a night out with the guys - except we’re all wearing fabulous dresses.

Mich I get what you are saying... I don't think a mutual interest in Trans topics can sustain a real friendship. I have had and do have a number of close girlfriends who are 'real friends' in the sense that we talk about everything.

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Originally Posted by MoGG

Sometimes_miss,always misogynist!

If you find that the majority of the population are so boring and repetitive that you can’t pay attention to us, I think the fault is more likely to be with you as the real common denominator.

Women can and do discuss the same range of topics as men. Perhaps with you they realise you aren’t up to in-depth discussion - or perhaps your beliefs about women mostly being gold-digging *****s (as expressed in the shorts pocket conversation) or happy relationships being a fiction leak out and women you speak to are deliberately trying to shut off a real conversation with you.

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Where did I write anything about gold digging (expletive)? I don't remember writing that anywhere. Where are you getting this stuff?

Oh, I'll talk about the topics that women do, just not endlessly. I watch the women I work with talking to each other about all this for many hours at a time, rehashing the same thing over and over and over; and I ask myself, to what end?

Maybe read some material about how men and women communicate differently. Then you will understand. Men bond through shared activity. Women bond through talking with each other, often to no particular point. Men speak primarily with direct language; women, indirect language. Try picking up a starter book by Barbara and Alan Pease, such as, 'Why men don't listen and women can't read maps'.

https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Listen-W.../dp/0767907639

I think that you'll find it fascinating reading, since you obviously haven't researched the topic yet.

Their associated books are all similar, and give lots of examples of why we have trouble understanding each other. Unless, of course, you're quite content just branding us as misogynists as you have, me, blaming all the communication problems on men, and prefer to leave it at that.

With my close CD friend we like to talk about work, autos (we both drive high performance cars, get two petrol heads together and that’s it) as well as lots of girl stuff. When with my GG friends we talk about everything: family, music, life. Just “girly” stuff would get old quickly.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Where did I write anything about gold digging (expletive)? I don't remember writing that anywhere. Where are you getting this stuff?

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From the forum. You do know we can see each other's comment histories, right? No, you didn't actually use the word gold-digging, that was a paraphrase, but seeing you are here writing about how women's talk is so boring and repetitive you have to pretend not to hear it, I find it bizarre you are outraged to be called out as misogynistic.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Maybe read some material about how men and women communicate differently. Then you will understand. Men bond through shared activity. Women bond through talking with each other, often to no particular point. Men speak primarily with direct language; women, indirect language. Try picking up a starter book by Barbara and Alan Pease, such as, 'Why men don't listen and women can't read maps'.
https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Listen-W.../dp/0767907639
I think that you'll find it fascinating reading, since you obviously haven't researched the topic yet.

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I wondered - why would I read something written by motivational speakers, when there are so many worthy books on the topic written by actual scientists in the field. Testosterone Rex: Myths of Sex, Science, and Society by Cordelia Fine, also author of Delusions of Gender (and lest you think I am cherrypicking and this is not supported by mainstream science, it won the Royal Society Book Prize in 2017), Brain Storm: The Flaws in the Science of Sex Differences by Rebecca Jordan-Young, Myths of Gender: Biological Theories about Women and Men by Anne Fausto-Sterling.

However, as an online library had a copy of your recommendation (I'm certainly not paying for it), I had a look.
Didn't you find it odd that the book claims to be oh so scientific, and yet references almost nothing, not even graphs? Didn't you find it odd that the bibliography at the end was heavy on titles such as "Love Lies", "Love Codes", "Everything Men know about Women...", as if this was of equal weight to a scientific paper.

Also, I can't believe you think I am harsh on men, when you are recommending a book that states that when a man's brain is in its resting state, at least 70% of its electrical activity is shut down but only 10% is for women, claims that men kick small animals if no one is looking, and contains such lovely quotes as "Men like sex with the lights on so they can get the woman's name right". Didn't these "scientific facts" make you a bit suspicious?

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Their associated books are all similar, and give lots of examples of why we have trouble understanding each other. Unless, of course, you're quite content just branding us as misogynists as you have, me, blaming all the communication problems on men, and prefer to leave it at that.

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This is a joke book using a lot of silly stereotypes about men and women, that I hope is meant as a parody of that seminal fribble of pseudo-science, "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". If it was meant to be taken seriously, it would be a pretty offensive portrait of men as a lot of grunting, barely intelligent rapists and cross-dressers couldn't exist in its world view at all.

I certainly don't believe that of all, or even the vast majority of men. Do you?

I suspect you are unable to keep up with conversations and all the gender stereotyping is just protecting a fragile ego. If you are worried that women are laughing at you because you don't know what they are talking about, or find you have to get them to repeat things constantly, I think most people are genuinely nice and don't mind.

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Originally Posted by Becky Blue

Mich I get what you are saying... I don't think a mutual interest in Trans topics can sustain a real friendship. I have had and do have a number of close girlfriends who are 'real friends' in the sense that we talk about everything.

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I do a lot of scuba diving, which is a very mixed sport, and I will happily to talk to other divers of any gender about gear, bottom times, ascent profiles and what have you. But if that's all we have in common then the conversation won't last very long, or at least it will get fake and boring really fast. I think that's the same with all shared-interest groups. I met some of my best friends through diving, but they're my friends because we share a lot more than that. Diving was common ground that gave us a place to start.

I haven't met many CDs in real life yet. Some were lovely (Helen) but another bored the... forms... off me talking about Brexit and tax incentives. I learned that day that if you take a boring guy and put a dress on him... it doesn't help. Somehow it's worse, if anything.


On the "sometimes" misogyny and other general crazy talk... I read that as either trolling or misplaced anger issues, neither of which is worth my time.

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

Michelle brings up a good point. My friends tend to fall into interest categories. I have friends who share a common history. Or a common interest. I have a lot of casual acquaintances and they remain such because there is no commonality to the relationship; neighbors for instance. I often wonder if I was to find a fellow CDer, whether there would be anything to the relationship other than we liked to wear women's clothing. Would that alone create a basis for a friendship?

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That is very interesting! I have tried to make CD friendships but if there is nothing past the fact we both like to wear women's clothing, how can you create a true relationship. Very great point its making me think a lot. Thank you!