Men do, women don't..

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Originally Posted by Dutchess

I don't need a large quantity of males " hitting" on me in some bar.

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Geez, I know what you mean and ditto. For some reason I've been a backyard bug light for gay men and jewish women the latter of which I rather enjoyed. The gay men part, not so much except being admired and desired is, I'll have to say, pleasant. Getting back to the OP, I do have a longtime online friend who has married a wonderful GG that enjoys and truly gets turned on by assuming the traditional conceived male dynamic, with associated tactile accoutrements, as enhancements. Sort of a TG ying and yang that many of us have determined will never happen. As far as I've been informed, there is a mutual elevated erotic experience with the role reversal.
But, one of the primary rules of logic is that the particular does not validate the general so yes, it is a rare occurrence.
We are truly wired different. I heard something long ago that males are driven to provide, protect and cast their genetics into the future whereas females seek security and protection as they nurture.

Males provide, females procreate.

But, in the cave men days, there was a hunter/gatherer dynamic. Men needed to see objects (prey) that moved so they could hunt and survive. Women need to see objects that didn't move (berries) so they could gather and survive. That's why men can't find their shoes right in front of them. LOL.

I am reminded about a seinfeld episode where the woman he was dating walks into the living room naked and goes about her business naked. He tried that. I think he was going to repair some loose board or something and she right away called him out. Why are you naked? In the end, the episode concluded women's bodies were more designed for displaying, and men's bodies are more utilitarian.
I think this falls in line with the fact that women typically are the ones to use their looks to attract a mate which follows through for most species. Add to that how visually stimulated men can be as opposed to women.
I think men see that power women have just from how they look and want a piece of it. At least the men here want a piece of it. We want a piece of that power women have just with their looks.
When I started dressing and Going Out years ago I got quite a lot of attention. Special privileges at clubs. There was plenty of ppositive reinforcement that what I was doing was special. And I like that feeling.
I did not necessarily set out to be a woman when all of this started. I was curious about walking in heels. I was also curious about female impersonators. That's what they were called back in the late eighties. Now it's becoming more common and accepted and less of a exclusive thing. It's almost causing it to lose some of it's lustre. For me now it just feels so natural. I couldn't see myself any other way.

As for womens clothes, they got it made, and women don't want to wear them. In most cases I am able to move freely and stay cooler unlike mens clothes, most womens clothes are not rough like mens clothes either.
Mens pants, jeans are the worst, no stretch or give at all. Womens clothes move with you, mens clothes don't. Yikes, there are those of us that aren't wearing womens clothes to 'get off'....

Women don't dress for men, they dress for other women as in competitive type of thing. The old Al Bundy quote "Don't try to understand women, women understand women and they hate each other."

@ Britney.

It is a male myth that women dress to compete with other women. They dress for themselves.

And women don't hate each other. They are each other's biggest support group.

One more thing, if you are buying men's pants that "don't stretch or give at all", you are not looking at the right pants. Many men's pants have "stretch" in them now. That's the only kind of pants that my hubby buys.

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Originally Posted by char GG

It is a male myth that women dress to compete with other women. They dress for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Genifer Teal

...women typically are the ones to use their looks to attract a mate...

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I'm curious that char GG has formed this opinion, as I would go along with Genifer's take on it. I'm defining 'looks' to include clothing, make-up, physical appearance, as well as clothes.

I think plenty of women are highly competitive, when it comes to their appearance. Why else would some women dress so uncomfortably? Who would wear high heels for comfort and practicality? Who would wear constrictive shapewear or a corset? A garter belt instead of hose? Mascara and foundation in summer?

Why they choose to inflict this on themselves is open for discussion, but IMO if not to attract a mate by excelling over the competition, then why?

Different situations call for different decisions. Have to disagree with much of what Duchess says, but respect her views all the same. I have the man from Delmonte suit in my wardrobe and I love to wear it, on the right occasion, I will strut like a Peacock and enjoy every moment of it. Going to the Theta or a show comes to mind. Yet there is so much I'm not supposed to wear that I also enjoy. I'm not a typical male, Like so many here, I have a large part of me that is naturally feminine. I need to express that or my life would be so much less.

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It is a male myth that women dress to compete with other women. They dress for themselves.

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I searched for your claim of that alleged male myth, I am unable to find any thing that would back that. However they do dress for other woman, ( and themselves ) as I mention below about certain sources.

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And women don't hate each other. They are each other's biggest support group.

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I did find act aggressive towards one another though. Bustle, yahoo, and vogue agree with me mostly, as well as your claim of women allegedly not hating each other.

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One more thing, if you are buying men's pants that "don't stretch or give at all", you are not looking at the right pants. Many men's pants have "stretch" in them now. That's the only kind of pants that my hubby buys.

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I would look in to these pants. However until mens clothes comes up to par with womens clothes, the mens side will be passed on in most cases. I want colorful ( pinks and purples ) cute tops, midi, maxi skirts, dresses midi, maxi too.

If you side with the evolutionary psychologists....I tend to but with some reservations...womens bodies were designed to indicated their ability to procreate...wide hips to accommodate passage through the brith canal...permanently enlarged breasts (the only mammal to have them, by the way...to indicated ability to nurse an infant and continue the genetic line. On a very primal level...not saying there is necessarily conscious decision on anyones part...womens clothing is designed to accentuate these features. Although, that having been said evolutionary psychologists haven't come up with an explanation for heterosexual crossdressing (or fro same sex relationships for that matter)

I'd say that anyone who disagrees with what char GG or Dutchess put forth needs to put in some serious introspection time before hitting the submit button.

Why is so hard for many male crossdressers to admit they are compelled to wear woman's clothes because they are: women's clothes. All the talk about fabrics, designs, colors, stretch, body shape and more is just superficial noise and nonsense. In other words, they're rationalizations for a desire we don't really begin to (and probably will never) understand.

Britney,
You search for evidence of my claim on the internet? Oh my!

Well, I don?t need internet proof, I live it every day.

But of course, you are certainly welcome to believe whatever you want. Research all you want.

Char

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You search for evidence of my claim on the internet? Oh my!

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Your claim of it's a "male myth" didn't make any sense. I like to verify by studies, and evidence. You want source links let me know.

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Well, I don?t need internet proof, I live it every day.

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Then you are very lucky to have that support, that doesn't mean they all support one another.

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But of course, you are certainly welcome to believe whatever you want. Research all you want.

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I'm not believing what I want. I am going by research, and studies.

Okay, hold onto your hats, because most don't want to know this, and have routinely ignored my posts that have this information in them. Read this while it's here, because I'm pretty sure it ruffles feathers and will be edited or deleted. If you think any of this is wrong, study psychology, like I have. And no, I didn't keep a list of references for everyone to fact check, because others have written all this information in THEIR books, so it would simply be plagiarizing their works. I learned psychology to figure myself out, and managed to do that. You can do that too, but most are afraid of what they will find, so they pretend that no one knows why they like to wear frilly cute girl clothes and dream about being a beauty pageant winner, admired for well, just being oh-so beautiful. So take from this what you will, or forget about it if it makes you uncomfortable. Go back to not knowing why you want to dress up. Most are happy believing that there's 'no reason' to do it, that it's all just a mystery. It's not. But most cannot accept the reasons they find.

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Originally Posted by char GG

And women don't hate each other. They are each other's biggest support group.

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And yet, a woman will see another, prettier/younger women come into the venue, and automatically say disparaging comments about the newcomer, without knowing anything about her, other than how she looks. This is rooted in mating behavior, where a 'new' female becomes available, and males automatically find her more attractive than the female who he has already mated with. Males are genetically 'wired' to want to mate with as many different women as possible. This is one thing which has kept the human race going; maximizing the different genetic combinations among the individuals, eventually creating some more durable, stronger, smarter ones; it's evolution at work.

It has been observed many times, where a man who is currently the mate of an extremely beautiful woman, yet strays towards a 'new' less attractive woman, finding her more attractive 'for some reason'. The reason is obvious, but no one really wants to admit it: He's attracted to her for that very reason, because she's different. 'New' woman tops 'previous' woman in desire every time. Women hate that idea, because there's no way to compete with 'new' woman; oh, they try, change their hair style/color, wear new outfits, new make up, etc., but their men know the truth; they aren't 'new' woman. Examples? Hugh Grant, out on Sunset Boulevard looking for 'girls for hire', while he has Elizabeth Hurley waiting for him at home. Bruce Springsteen choosing a rather plain female musician, while he had Julianne Phillips at home. Prince Charles having affairs when he has Diana at home. The list goes on and on, of men who choose a supposedly less attractive newcomer rather than go home to his wife. New, beats old, every time the option is there.

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Originally Posted by Taylor186

Why is so hard for many male crossdressers to admit they are compelled to wear woman's clothes because they are: women's clothes.

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Because they cannot accept anything which might indicate that they aren't 'real' men. Over and over, you can find thousands of instances of males here talking about themselves in third person, as if it's 'not really themselves'. Or referring to themselves with a female name, desperately trying to distance themselves from the feminine behavior and personality traits, because, again, they cannot accept that they aren't actually the 'all male, all the time' MANLY man that they feel they have to be. Why? Because we are brought up that way. We are (well most of us anyway) brought up to believe that we must be MEN, never cry, never back down, never care, never have any of what we are told are silly, feminine feelings. Have compassion? Oh, never. Kill the opponent No mercy. Show feelings for an injured one? Oh, you're SOFT, not enough of a man. Be sad about the loss of someone you love? Feel like crying? OH, no can't do that. It's not manly. Hide away those feelings. Had a setback? Fail at something? Feel the tears starting? STOP THAT! Boys don't cry. MAN UP!!!
Never disappoint anyone. Sure, sure, many women will tell us it's okay, but many aren't okay with it at all. They expect us to be their strong, stable, rock that they can always lean on when things go wrong in their life. They tell us that we should be more sensitive. But can we really? No. What they mean, is that they want us to be more sensitive to THEIR problems, not have problems of our own. A guy with problems who shows his emotions, is no longer considered a desirable man; he's 'weak'. Men are supposed to be in control of our feelings at all times. Men are never loved unconditionally (except by his mother). We are loved for what we can do for our women, what we can do for our children. But that's it; it's very dependent on our ability to provide and protect. Without that, we are told, we aren't worth respect. Get divorced? Lose your job, and cannot pay that alimony/chlls support? You go to jail. Do women go to jail if they're rotten mothers? Of course not. They are allowed to be out of control of their emotions, and deserve help. Men? We're on our own. Our worth to society has always been obvious; we are the disposable ones. 'Women and children first'. Men? Just dumped over the side. Poor nutrition in the low income areas? Oh, we have WIC, the Women Infants Children program of food stamps for those people. Any Men food stamp programs? Nah.

So many of us simply cannot accept that we are feminine, because our society sees us as weak, and less of a man because of it. There's lots more, but the vast majority of men simply don't want to have to face, that they are not the manliest man that they should be. So we see it right here on this forum over and over, that they hide behind 'OH, Zelda (his CD name) isn't the REAL me, it's just my feminine side. I don't really want to kiss or have sex with a man, that's just Zelda. It's 'not the real me. And I only do it when I'm dressed as a woman, so I'm not really gay. I'm just an absolutely straight man who sometimes acts like I'm female. Yes, it's just an act, and I just love to act that way. But it's not really me.'.
This will continue, because despite all the supposed acceptance in a very few western societies, there is still quite a stigma towards males who dress / behave / feel emotions like females. Coaches, bosses, drill sergeants, still use female terms as insults in order to push males to 'man up', do things that they want done that the subject of scorn seems not willing to work hard enough to accomplish.
It's still not acceptable to most of our society, for a man to be like a woman. As one man put it, 'My wife and daughters would rather see me die on my white horse, than fall down from it'. Women got liberated, but most still insist that their men be traditional men when they want us to be (but we're not allowed to insist on the reverse, now, are we?). We are still the ones to go see what the noise is downstairs at 2 a.m.. We are still the ones out there (about 99%) taking the dangerous, physically difficult construction jobs. How many high steel workers are women? How many deep sea oil rig construction workers are women? How many people who fish in the arctic, say the type on 'the most dangerous catch' are women? How many who fight oil rig fires are women? It's all part of what our society tells men that we have to be. And what we have to be, to most, is simply being 'manly'.
How true.

Summation, bottom line: We all have feminine feelings, feminine emotions. We just shut them down and assume that's all there is to it. But they come to consciousness when we don't expect, and we are horrified that we aren't the 'all man, all the time, MANLY man that we feel we have to be'.

WIC is for nursing moms and their babies and little kids. I know, i've been on it and I tell you that with one of mine I got very sick with mastitis and my whole boob turned black with a large red streak going up into my chest with a fever of 105 .

Not real sexy is it....

The pain was so bad I could hardly stand it and lasted for 2 solid months. Anyway, wic not only furnished my formula after I became too sick to nurse, they openly let dad's join in to take care of their kids too. I was very very ill and my ex husband( not the dresser) was quite popular at those wic meetings..
He also laughed, cried, showed alot of emotions. I won't be with a man that doesn't have a gentle side and can't be emotional.. you can do that without posing in mini skirts and halter tops and 60 pairs of p hose.

The rest I agree with you with they know why they dress they want to make up any reason possible so they don't have to go there and you know we're there is.

@ Brittany, women dress in those kinds of clothes to attract a man. Not for each other.

sometimes_miss,

while I do find a small kernel of truth hidden in your writings, I definitely have to disagree with this:

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'New' woman tops 'previous' woman in desire every time.

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This might be true for the insecure, the egocentric, or the otherwise unevolved males - it's certainly not true for all.

In my experience it's "right" woman tops "every other" woman every time.
My wife is older than me, in poor health, and is largely intolerant of my feminine urges.
Even so, you could march a parade of beautiful half naked women through my bedroom and I wouldn't stray.
All else aside, I love my wife. I have "bonded" with her, and the rest of the world is unimportant.

From time to time, she'll tease me about finding a girlfriend when she's gone.
I just smile and give some form of "the only girl I'll be looking for, is me."

But then again - I'm not exactly a "Manly Man" :strugglin

GG speaking here, and it is utter nonsense that women are competitive with one another and hate each other. While there are specific incidences where there is a competitive or catty vibe, the majority of interactions is one of support, be it emotional or professional. Women dress the way they do for so many different reasons that it's impossible to assign a motive to "all women". Some are looking for a partner, and choose deliberately to dress a certain way, some have purchased a garment that makes them feel good inside, some are looking for comfort, and some are wearing a favorite garment because it makes them feel confident. Some, who are in an environment where there are predatory males, may be dressing in a way that makes them feel safer.

Wear what you want to wear, and stop griping about women not dressing the way you think they should dress, and stop assigning a motive to what we choose to wear on a given day. Stop claiming that women's clothes are more comfortable than men's clothes, that men's clothes are boring, and aren't designed to be sexy. I'm sure there's an entire population of straight women and gay men who would disagree with you.

Britney, Char is talking from first hand experience, something you lack when you speak for women. So yes, I'd be interested to see these sources you keep talking about. Thanks in advance for enlightening us.

@DianeT

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Char is talking from first hand experience, something you lack when you speak for women.

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I'm not speaking for women. I am mentioning studies, and articles mentioned. :sigh:

You know, it really amazes me that when GGs are asked for their opinions, and they give them, they are called down on THEIR opinion as wrong because of research and what has been found "online".
It really doesn't take much research to figure out why there is not many other GGs who will give opinions here.
This just solidifies the fact that some of the GMs on here really don't want to hear what GGs have to say unless it falls into their own beliefs and research.
It might be beneficial to LISTEN to them and not try to debunk them.
Of course this is just MY opinion, and research may not fall in line with my thoughts, but as a GM, I don't give a crap.

Britney,

As you are well aware, there are links, studies, and research for every opinion that someone has. Believe whatever you like. Have fun researching.

It is interesting that a line of discussion seems to occur about once a year around these same issues. One gender tries to explain the behavior of the other gender and of their own gender. The same people express nearly the same thoughts each round. No one seems to learn anything. Sigh.

This may be one of the most confrontational and contentious threads I've seen here.

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Originally Posted by DAVIDA

You know, it really amazes me that when GGs are asked for their opinions, and they give them, they are called down on THEIR opinion as wrong because of research and what has been found "online".
It really doesn't take much research to figure out why there is not many other GGs who will give opinions here.
This just solidifies the fact that some of the GMs on here really don't want to hear what GGs have to say unless it falls into their own beliefs and research.
It might be beneficial to LISTEN to them and not try to debunk them.
Of course this is just MY opinion, and research may not fall in line with my thoughts, but as a GM, I don't give a crap.

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A THOUSAND TIMEs this .
Thank You Davida
They really do NOT want to know what GGs think or they would NOT come back at us. Either you want to know our opinions or you would rather just have your own damn opinion on the matter.
This gets really old . Do not ask us anything if you do not respect our answers and have to argue with your misinformation. Re- your stupid links - how do you know the articles were not written by a man!All the GGs are telling you different but….no you know better how we think %$&@$&@$&@#

This thread is done.

I want to say far worse things but my mods will have to moderate me.