Why is it ok...

The way I see it, there are types of clothing as defined by society to be masculine and feminine. The feminine pile consists of articles that resemble the trousers and shirts found in the masculine pile.
Now women wear these clothes on their bilogical form, without trying to present an image that belies their natural form nor assume a whole new persona. To put it differently, you don't find women trying to bind their breasts while wearing a shirt, but you do, (this includes me) see men who will tuck when wearing a skirt or use breast forms while wearing...a shirt!!!
Men who wear women's clothes on the other hand don't just wear "women's" clothes, but seek to project an entire image and personality of being a woman. I disagree with comments that term this embracing the feminine within, simply because make-up, skirts and lace lingerie does not define feminine. The scots wear kilts which are essentially skirts but are not considered CD's, right?
No doubt this reasoning is too simplistic in understanding why a woman in a shirt and tie is considered sexy, while a man in a teddy is considered funny.

Take care,
Sonia

P.S. I would never give up the thrill of illusion ever, despite having said what I did. Thats only to answer a question!

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Originally Posted by Sandra GG

So if I wear a pair of trousers and a jacket I am a crossdresser, god some of you girls need to get a life.

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According to some, it does, Now I do believe that I saw you yesterday, but I did not recognize you, I thought you were a man. Only problem was, I could not understand why you were wearing that makeup and had such large breast, oh, and I could not take my eyes off your ass.

Does this make me gay? :lol:

Got to have a sense of humor to survive.

Angel Darling....reading your posts and those of Donna T's, Holly's (CD Mom), Gypsy Karen's, etc...are one of the reasons I found the courage to come on here.
I looked long and hard to find a site, that both Jim/Jamie and I could feel comfortable with together.

I knew for years....but didn't see into the soul of my SO, until I read the heartfelt words from you and soooo many others on this site.

God, there is so much I want to say.....
Sometimes I just want to cry knowing how you all can't sit out in the back yard and enjoy the evening, that there is no voice to say you are pretty when you are in the darkness and never see the light of day, that you face prejudice and discrimination at every turn.

I know these things, I was a trailblazer myself, I worked in the Oil Patch and on Oil rigs and I fought fire for the Conservation Dept, I was the first one....

They spit on me, they beat me, I had to carry a Bowie knife just so I wouldn't get raped.
This was ages before a Discrimination Committee and it was real rough out there.
I didn't do it to prove anything....I was looking for something I think....a Dad I never met and who never said "Well done Daughter, I'm proud of you"...and I wanted to make good money on a limited education, I became the quintessential token white/native American woman to fill the quota.

But even so I always did my hair, wore perfume and make-up and there was no mistaking even covered in crude oil, I was a feminine woman.

If you don't want to be an activist for your cause, you shouldn't have to.
You should be allowed by society to be exactly as you are.

Think of it this way, every woman who is on here, every family member of yours that loves you...we are all there, not just in here.....but in the restrooms, dressing rooms, etc etc too.
So please, when it is tempting for some to say to us, what you can't say to others.....remember we are here to support you.

I know I am not always gonna say things just right....I know I am gonna p*ss off some of you when I write what I feel.
But know,

I am so fond of so many of you lovely Ladies.
I do love my Jim/Jamie.

And I do adore the real women on here, whom I learn from as well and I can turn to in a moment of hurt and misunderstanding.

By the four post this discussion went off thread. Let's try to accept who we are without having to justify why we are.
If we can't accept ourselves with out an explanation,how do we expect others to accept us at face value (without knowing why we are the way we are). Let's face it not many are going to go through the trouble of finding out what makes us tick. Fact of life.... some people will accept us some won't.


See, I am even guitly of mini thread hijacking...lol
Steph

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Originally Posted by Sonia_cd

Now women wear these clothes on their bilogical form, without trying to present an image that belies their natural form nor assume a whole new persona. To put it differently, you don't find women trying to bind their breasts while wearing a shirt . . . .

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And that's the (essential) difference between a GG and an FtM. As Steph said, it's the intent. GGs will wear what may be considered masculine-like clothing for comfort (or other reasons), but not to represent a male persona. The FtM will be the one you see (or may not even notice) who binds the breasts and maybe pack a little buddy, because it's not just about the clothes. 0.02

It has to do with ~ "Why is it ok if girls cross dress but guys can't".

It has to do wtih, there is a difference in the above statement and WHY!
It has to do with.....women have faced these same issues of discrimination....and we STILL do.
It has to do with how unfair, unpleasant and unjust "society" is.
It has to do with the real women here...and why they are here ~ to support you, to gain insight of our loved ones through your voices.....and not just to take sh*t because we don't just say I like your panties and I think you are pretty.
It has to do with...Darling Angel hitting the nail on the head and my acknowledgeing this.
It has to do with ~ Goddam*mit, I KNOW I don't say things just right everytime to suit each and every one of you every single time.

I don't think this complaint addresses the situation of FTM crossdressers and transgenered genetic females. It's more like a complaint that non-crossdressing genetic females can wear whatever they want.

It's kind of funny in a laugh at yourself way, I worked in a place where we had several FTM's, about 6 years ago. I assumed they were lesbians. And there's nothing wrong with being lesbian, near as I can tell, if that's how they understood themselves. But the funny thing is, there I was, MTF in the closet, rubbing elbows with my counterpart of the other gender who were actually "out", and I made the same naive assumption about their sexuality, that people make about MTF's.

I seriously doubt that it is easy being an FTM CD.

...bucking "social norms" is tough either way..though a mans reasons to give up...(precepts of?) "masculinity" and it's social implications..seems more perplexing to most people....."It's a Man's World" -James Brown', sadly or likely still applies eh?:eek: :( xx"K"

Momarie
so you are saying that gg's who dress in manly ,or male looking attire ARE crossdressers? No one is attacking gg's on this.
I think that the before we start going off on all kinds of different tangents we need to clear up a basic question, that either makes or breaks the thread......ARE GG"s WHO DRESS IN MALE TYPE CLOTHING TO BE CONSIDERED CROSSDRESSERS? If they are.....then let's go on and on about how unfair it is. If they ARE NOT doesn't the point become moot? We can just leave the comparison to the gg's completely out of the equation and and simply whine about how how society discriminates against us and social pressure keeping us down. two completely different issues.


Steph

We're all getting a little chippy here, aren't we?

Women who wear pants, or a pair of sweats, or some such that may be considered less "feminine" attire, are not crossdressing. First of all, just because a pair of pants is just that....a pair of pants....doesn't make it an article of men's clothing. There are women's pants, too. (Duh!) When my wife wears something other than a skirt or a dress, which is most of the time, she is not crossdressing. Most of her clothes are geared towards women and their likes, and certainly not towards men. That said, it's true that women can wear almost anything they want to without raising any eyebrows anymore. This is the part that raises the question that began this thread. But there are pants and such things that are made for women. There aren't any skirts and dresses made for men. And I don't want to bring kilts or Greek military dress uniforms into the argument.

There are articles of clothing that are made for women to wear, and they fit women anatomically. If not to emulate having breasts, what earthly reason would a man have to wear a bra? The same goes for panties. They do not lend themselves to comfort for those of us with a package down there. Blouses and dresses are often tailored to allow for the swell of breasts in the front. These things are just not constructed for a male to wear. And no skirt or dress looks right with a bulge in the front.

But I really enjoy wearing pretty clothes, dresses, blouses, skirts, etc. But in order to make such clothing fit right, look right, and feel right, I need to add breasts, and diminish the obvious presence of my male parts. But it doesn't stop there. In order to get the most pleasure out of crossdressing, I also wear makeup, hide my hairy legs as best I can, and wear a wig, so that I can actually emulate what it would be like for me were I actually female. This is where we diverge from women who "crossdress". They aren't trying to be men. But I admit that when I dress, I'm trying to be, as best I can, a woman.

'Nuff said.

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Originally Posted by Sandra GG

So if I wear a pair of trousers and a jacket I am a crossdresser, ...

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I wear blouse, hose, bodysuits and sometimes unobtrusive makeup in public.
I would wear heels, skrit etc.
I have no intention to buy breast forms or a wig.
I have no intention to hide my male body (maybe I would if I could)

What I am ? CD or someting different ?

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... god some of you girls need to get a life.

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It's not all that easy.

Ok, I guess I’m going to get blasted for saying this, but here goes anyway.

This is a very, very complicated subject. Almost as bad as “why do you CD”, everyone has a different answer.

Ok, here’s my perception.
GG’s dress the way they do, to attract men, or not to attract.

MEN find dresses, skirts, tight sweaters, low cut tops, high heel shoes, to be sexually attractive attire for women to wear.

Today, many women have decided that feeling comfortable, is more important than dressing sexy to appeal to men.

Although I dress and sometimes do makeup, I’m not obsessed with “passing”. What I would really like to do, is be able to walk into any public place and not have to fear some “redneck wacko” trying to beat me to death, with a hammer.

So, if more of us go to the local mall wearing a tank-top, a skirt and sandals, no wig, no makeup, maybe society will slowly accept our clothing choices.

This discussion has run on and on... Give me a break.. We dress in lingerie and all cause it thrills us..
Woman wear slacks, tee shirts for comfort not to find their male side or because their testerone is high.
We dress to feel feminine, to explore our feminine side... whatever.. but we do not dress in skirts hose and hi heels cause if feels better than wearing slacks and loafers! Woman dress 'down' cause they are comfortable. I seriously doubt a woman comes home from work and strips down and slips in a garter belt and stockings, lace panites and matching bra, mini-skirt and low cut blouse cause if feels good for them. Yes there are times they do dress like that to feel good to feel feminine but not for the same reason we CDs do!

It is statements like this, that makes society treat us like we are strange!

As a g.g. I don’t think that I am ever anything but who I am...a woman...me...and I just dress for the occasion. I like to wear feminine things but I don't question my femininity when I am in sweatpants and a t-shirt, I am just "me”. But then I have no desire to emulate any male characteristics, I am happy to be who I am.

I think that totally crossdressed men (rather than a slightly androgynous look) confuse people because somehow represents a crossover in gender identity and society likes things to drop into neat boxes.

But if a man shows he has some feminine characteristics/interests he is seen as non threatening and just in touch with his feminine side. The same man without the make up and clothes..........we are a strange lot, us human beings!

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Originally Posted by KathyT

This discussion has run on and on... Give me a break.. We dress in lingerie and all cause it thrills us.

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IMO a good part of that thrill is caused because it is not accepted and we are forced into the closet, which restricts time, place and social contacts.
If it would be normal it would be less thrilling, but the sensual part would dominate.

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Originally Posted by Anne G.G.

But if a man shows he has some feminine characteristics/interests he is seen as non threatening and just in touch with his feminine side.

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If this would be true, that would be something.
Maybe he's not seen threatening, but at least as a freak.
You don't get away without stares and/or laughing and giggles if people realize that you wear i.e. thights as men.
The question there is WHY ?

This is something my hubby and I have talked about a lot recently. Since he came out of the closet a few weeks ago I have noticed quite a few F2M in our rural area. One working at SuperWalmart. I noticed but didn't find anything strange about it. She was very friendly and nice and that is all I cared about.
I have to say as far as I know I have never seen a M2F in person. Before I knew about my husband I am not sure what I would have thought if I had. Since finding out about him it has really opened my eyes to things I never gave consideration to.
I think it is more acceptable for women because in the beginning when the first women donned pants there were none made for women so they wore men's pants. As society began to realize this was going to be the way it was there began to be more feminine types of clothing for women to choose from. I am sure in the beginning the first women were not widely accepted and mothers of young children would cover their eyes and take the long way around these first ones.
Does anyone know when women first began wearing less feminine clothes? I have always been something of a tomboy and think I might possibly have been one of the first to wear pants in place of all the frills and layers of clothing a woman used to have to wear just to walk around her house if I have been born in that earlier time.
I think it is also because most men do not go out in full dress. As more do I think it will eventually stop being such a social sore spot. God bless the ones who have courage to do that!:thumbsup: