How often is SO participation required?

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Originally Posted by Emily Ann Brown

DEAR SWEET KARREN KARREN KARREN......


Mom left you alone way too much in the playpen. (giggle giggle).

Emily Ann

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Funny you should mention that but your correct!! And our long hair Collie was always there next to the playpen (hence the attraction to long hair me thinks) and while I used to cough up fir balls from eating dog hair often, I think the platpen was parked very near Mom's lingerie drawer!! :)

I still don't consider crossdressing as a team sport, be it a team of 2 or more... So I have my things I like to do and my wife has her's. I would no more tell her what things to wear that day as go with her shopping and select her clothes for her.....

"No dear, try the mens jeans!! They are sooo much more comfortable than those tight fitting womens jeans and much more attractive on you!! Lilly told me that!!".

Hehehe

Love Karren

I agree with Holly and others.....

Neither of you should "have" do do anything that you don't want to do or enjoy! period.....end of statement.

In my personal relationship, my wife and I communicate openly. She has said also that she doesn't want my crossdressing to consume my life. Guess what? I don't either.

We have mutually agreed on about a 50% / 50% average. Sometimes, when I am in the mood, I dress more and other times less but it all works out to about 50% of the time and that seems to work for me as well!

Good luck and keep the communication open. I think that you are on the right track!:love:

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

By participate I mean he wants me to pick something for him to wear, (he has been taking his own initiative on this lately) do his makeup and hair. Hang out, take pics and yes have sex. I try to make him feel pretty and engage in conversation, touching and telling him things that I know will make him feel like a girl. He would love for me to paint his nails and I used to but this just takes too much time so he will have it done before I get home for the "date". The date takes several hours. Usually when we have boy girl time it is when I don't even have my hair combed :eek: I want him to take me out, talk to me, touch me and then be all over me when we get home. Or if we stay in I want to listen to music, play a game talk and touch. I would at least like to have a little makeup on. Sometimes I feel that he doesn't want me to be the pretty one or the one getting the attention. I would like it a little more 50/50.

I have taken him out shopping. Even went in the dressing room with him at the good will to try on dresses. I have taken "her" out ot a couple of clubs and to a halloween party and to a regular resturant with others from tri-ess. We have even been nurturing a relationship with another couple who is very much like us. I am thankful to find some friends who we can relate to and who know albout and are trying to make cd'in work in their marriage.

It sort of hurts my feelings that he would be angry at me for saying that I could only play along once a month. Seems to me that a lot of women just plain don't even want to hear about it or leave their husbands because they can't deal with it. It's not like he can't play dress up when I am not home. I just don't want to hear about it. I have my interests also. I don't go on and on to him about how I love antique table clothes.

I think that he should not look a gift horse in the mouth and that he should be grateful that I do what I do. His pressuring me only makes me feel like I don't want to participate. At least I know that at the end of the month I will play dress up and I have time to plan the eve. and get into the mind set. What is wrong with that.??? It is so very frustrating to say the least.
Kitty

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Hello Kitty,
Reading your post is breaking my heart. From what I have read on this forum and others, about other women dealing with a CD husband, it seems universal that the CD is taking all and giving little if anything in return. Such selfishness from someone that professes love for a wife in incomprehensable. He does have more than enough of his time to "play", and he should give you your time to play meaning intamacy between you both, time alone together, socializing outside the home (dating)as husband and wife etc. As your husband he needs to meet your needs and requests,which means no CDing without you approving of it. I do agree that your husband should be greatful for ALL that you have done for him. I read a book some time ago where a quote from Confucious said "a fish doesn't appreciate the water until that fish is out of the water". The fish in your case is your husband, the water is you.
From all indications cracks are formming in the foundation of your realtionship with him. If he ever reads this I hope I can appeal to his sences. I beg of him to stop and contemplate what he is doing, and to do the right thing for the sake of your wife, and for yours as well. Think about your wife first and foremost in anything and everything. Stop the selfishness of your actions. He needs to realize who and what he has. He is BLESSED. He has it so much better than a lot of CD's. Seek forgiveness from your wife, and work more diligently to give back to her all the happiness that she has given you. Please stop being the greedy, selfish, person you have become. Love your wife, give to her, show her, be hers as a husband. She isnt asking for to much. Please. :2c:

I have read all the resposes so far. All seem supportive. I think what may not be clear to you Kitty, is just how strong his need to do this is. That said, the only level of participation that will really satisfy him is your complete acceptance of him as a woman. As you said though, you deserve a life too. A life with the man you married. You are right to be alarmed at where he appears to be going. He is wrong to be so selfish. Unforunately in marriges right and wrong are actually meaningless. Tread carefully, but do set boundries.

I have a suggestion for getting to see more of your man. Engage in activies with him that are masculine in nature. Go to a sports event, go hunting or hiking or boating. Burn something, build something. Sex, suprisingly, would not be a masculine activity for him at this time. But if you help him rediscover his male self it will be again someday. Remember this is a strong pull on him -- like a drug really.

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Originally Posted by Bethanygirl

A spouse or girlfreind should NEVER have to participate

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An S/O should only HAVE to participate.... when she feels she wants to.

Play on words, I know... but you get the meaning.

Thanks to all of you who responded. I was hoping that some of his peers would give him something to think about. I hope he doesn't see it as me getting it my way again. I do think that he has a certain selfishness. I have gone to lengths to try and make him happy but he doesn't always see it that way. Hence my frustration. He has come a long ways from the begining but I think that he has a long ways to go.

I feel that it is important to have a good foundation on which to build any kind of relationship be it friendship or marriage. I think that we are lacking that. I have been trying to tell him that once a month for the cd'ing will give us that time to build that. I don't know what to make of his anger over his perceived lack of crossdressing. He says that he is just a garden variety CD but I don't get why he can't be satified with the arrangement while we work on things. I told him that either he is incapable or he plain just doesn't want to. If this is the case then why should I knock myself out if he feels that it just isn't worth it? Why not be satified with what you have then anything above that is a bonus?

I hope that he takes your comments on the cuff and doesn't get angry at me but I am desparate to get a solution or the alternative will be going our separate ways. This is such a hard spot to be in you know? It is so sad really. Thanks again
Kitty

got nothin for ya except respect on this one Kitty.

:hugs: -b

I don't think it's ever required but I think to be what dan savage calls GGG Game, Giving and a Good Sport you should try it at least three times. If you can't get into it you should tell your SO that. And your SO should accept that.

Kitty, I want very much to reach out to you and say that not only are you not being unselfish, you are actively seeking a CD living arrangement that would please both of you. No man, CD or not, could ever ask anything more from his partner than that. You are above and beyond the call here, and it's great, and I think I understand why --what a great girl. I know it's scary, and the conversations at times won't be easy, (maybe he's more than CD...maybe not?? this is a matter that will need to be addressed at some time I think) but they must be done (delicately but honestly). I'm long ago divorced and no small part of that was my CDing, my inability to reign it in to a resonable level, and our joint inability to talk things through.

Having said that, I would like to add a comment for your hubby: You are not evil, or wrong to seek her participation, I know I LOVE it when my GG joins me, BUT...as many of our T* girl friends have pointed out here... that sweet GG of yours (the one who is working very hard to find a mutual solution for you both, and who is clearly one who loves you) has personal desires and wishes of joint non-CD intimacy that she craves to share with you just as much as you and I and many of the others in this forum crave dressing. I don't read her position as asking you to stop, only asking you to share some non-CD living with her in ways that she desires. A marriage is a share and share alike thing, it just has to be. I know how much we want to dress, and dress and play and play, but we have to give attention and affection to our SOs in the ways that they would like just as much. We can't argue that their wishing this is unreasonable --it just isn't.

For you both, please proceed openly, with the knowledge that love is an underlying element in your relationship, talk with one another, verbally, or using the letter-writing idea from an earlier posting (I loved that idea) -just be sure to be open with, but not hurtful or accusatory of one another. Maybe once a month is not where the compromise lies...maybe its four times a month as long as there were six or eight non-CD intimate massages, and/or dinner dates first. You guys get to choose the plan, just talk, and hug, and cry, and describe dreams, and remind each other how you come to be together in the first place.

All my very best wishes are with you both...

Jacqui

Kitty,
I believe that Krisinpink said something profound in his last paragraph. I believe there is nothing that love will not overcome. I do hope that both of you will find a balance point that will enable you to find happiness.
My answer to your question is: An SO should only partisapate if, and when they desire to do so. IE: Hunting, Fishing, Cooking, Golf, Football, Cd'ing, Etc.
We all have our worlds and we must live in them. I hope things will improve for you both.....Hugs
Sara

I know I dont really qualify because of being TG/Ts but I still believe that everyone's feelings have to be respected. You say this took on a life of its own and that may be well and fine, but I do believe some moderation is needed and your CD needs to respect both your marriage and relationship at all levels. Unfortunately marriage is not pick and choose, but it definitely is respect for one another.

So how much is too much or too little? It is what both of you can live with...comfortably!!

Let us know how this turns out? (Of course you will.) It has been a long road for you but going back, it appears as though gains have been made. We are all still pulling for you.

:hugs: to both of you
Kimberley

Kitty, this might sound weird but I've got a similar example that's got nothing to do with CDing.

My SO works in an office all week, gets up very early, spends all day surrounded by people, gets home late and tired. When she gets home all she wants to do is put her feet up and relax.

I work from home all week and get cabin fever. By the end of the day all I want to do is to go out and have some beers. I'm not being funny here - after eight, ten hours staring at the same four walls I get really antsy and really, really need a change of scene for the sake of my sanity.

Going out for beers isn't something my SO is a big fan of - she enjoys it occasionally but she doesn't want it to consume her life. She'll come out with me once a week, sometimes when she really doesn't want to, but that's about it: another night I'll go out with friends, and occasionally she'll suggest that I go myself while she stays in. She really doesn't fancy going out but she knows I'm going stir crazy stuck in the house, and she'd rather I went out by myself than stayed home being grumpy.

For me, it's not ideal: going out solo, or even with friends, isn't as much fun as going out with my SO. If it were up to me, we'd go out together every night; if it were up to my SO, we wouldn't go out at all. So we compromise, because that's what you do when you love each other.

I really do admire your committment to the relationship Kitty. You are a very exceptional woman. Any reasonable man would be proud to be your SO. I say that from my heart.:happy: Ericka Kay

wow i want it all and i want it yesterday.... you know total acceptance and for my wife to get to know Wendy ... fact is she knows but is not totally supportive .... what i would like to see is time spent and not forced in her face time but even that once a month would be way cool ... when it comes down to it her comfort is more important i do think we all want more it's just what people do but we need to look at things from both sides and make sure that our so's feelings and wishes are not being stepped on ....

Hi Kitty

I think I can understand something of the way you feel. I blew my wifes small amount of acceptance by not keeping to my part of the bargain. Now I'm trying to never dress again because when push comes to shove, I love her more than I love being dressed. You should not feel you have to do anything you do not feel comfortable with, or crosses your "acceptance" barrier.

Looking back I know I felt the constant need to be the girlier one in our relationship and that my wife never did enough for me, only now do I realise just how far against her own desires she went in order to make me happy. Whilst never being a great partiicipant in my desires, she turned a blind eye to my dressing sessions when she couldn't cope, bought clothes that would suit us both enabled me to go out en-femme in drab etc. etc. We are a selfish group of individuals who are usually dealing with something in our lives that we do not understand, often makes us feel guilty but love doing.

Others have referred to this need as our hobby, we would not expect our partners to participate in stamp collecting or car maintenance etc if the really disliked it, nor should we expect you to go beyond what you feel comfortable with in an activity that a large chunck of society thinks (whether we like it or not) is weird to say the least.

Your partner already has a good deal from you, a deal that a lot, not all, of other cd'rs would love from their own partner, it seems that if he is not careful then he will, like me, have lost what he had. Perhaps he needs to read these posts just to work out what you feel and to get a little reality check. You should be more important to him than clothes if he really does love you and you too have your needs and expectations which he should as your partner take into account.

You are indeed a very special lady, and what you want is nothing more than to feel loved and cherished, not just a dressing room attendant. I hope you both can work this out, and that your partnership can grow onto a more equal footing, good luck to you both.

Penny :love:

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Originally Posted by Ericka/Rich

I really do admire your committment to the relationship Kitty. You are a very exceptional woman. Any reasonable man would be proud to be your SO. I say that from my heart.:happy: Ericka Kay

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Awe, thanks Ericka, you are a sweet as you can be. :love: Kitty

Hi Kitty: I love the letters idea. I have been selfish in my relationship with my
wife and didn't realize how much it was affecting her. I woke up and it is time your SO did the same. Maybe the problem is a little deeper than just the CDing and some 3rd party intervention might help. I value my relationship more than dressing up. I hope it works out for you from your posts you seem to be a supportive loving partner in your relationship. Tell him how you feel and realize that male anger is often a manipulitive technique Oh Oh that must be my " Dr Phil " gene talking. I wish you the very best you deserve to be loved and respected. Love Kahlan

well, as others here have said, should never HAVE to do anything *chuckles*

I know a lot of others here may disagree with this, but I think a couple of times a month are perfectly fine, or maybe as one said, a long weekend.

BUT, it should be reciprocated in some fashion, you give him this time to do his thing, and he should at least give you equal time to do your thing.

romantic night out as boy and girl, massages etc... just everyday couple stuff.

it should never be completly centered around the CDing as it will and does take over all too easily

give him a kick, let him know how much trouble you go to, to make him feel girly and special, and let him know you would like some of the same, thank you very much *grins*

I agree with Kerianna.

It sounds like you are an awesome woman and he might not be appreciating or able to appreciate what he has.

What you describe has happened to you is my worst nightmare. That I may carry this thing so far that my SO would eventually reject it after being so involved. I have tried to be as careful as possible. May this serve as a lesson to all of us and we should take heed.

Fortunately, I have been having the opposite problem lately. I have been too busy for Michelia and have been trying to be more guy for muy GG. Now she is clamoring for the girl to come back! I think Michelia has given a her a sense of power and control she never experienced before but that is quite up her alley, she just did not know it. She also says I am a totally different more sensitive and expressive lover when enfemme. She says I am gentler and take everything so much slower. Weird thing is I do not program or plan this. It just happens. But I do not feel femme all the time, especially if I do not have the time or ability to relax and enjoy.

Karren is totally right about the control one loses. I do not mind this because we are very close and enjoy the same things. I had a marriage before where I had total control of everything, so this is a nice change. But for other people, I could see it being a problem.

You see Michelia, you make a very good point. I think that if he were to stop completley I would really miss it after a while. I just really feel that he pushes and pushes and pushes me away. After I had just gotten back into engaging in the crossdressing and we had a great eve and then he right away brings up other things he wants to try. He just plain can't be happy taking it step by step. When he does this I just wish I never would have opened that door again. He thinks that I am being mean but how in the world do I get him to see that this is his thing????? I do it because I love him. When I dont' see him making the same effort for me well it makes me more than a little unwilling to give him more of it:mad: I have made a commitment to participate once a month and I have honered that. He needs to do the same or maybe he can pick up with one of the many gg's who are lined up around the block just clamering to get a piece of an uncomprimising CD. :straightface:

How much to keep him happy? That would probably vary a great deal. The question that I think is important here is what can the two of you negotiate that will be mutually satisfactory. That will take communication and compromise, I would guess. It's definitely a two-way street.

Hi Kitty,

He craves the feminine energy that you share with him by participating in the CDing. So he should understand that your feminine energy wants (& needs) some masculine input on a regular basis.

One "date" en femme per date in male mode is more than generous, IMHO. Even one date en femme per four in guy mode would be a luxury most CDs can only dream about.

I've been in a relationship with a semi-accepting GG, where at one stage she was participating once a month. I survived. :)

As I said a while ago, tell him if he doesn't pull his socks up there are plenty of well-behaved CDs waiting to flirt with you. :D

:hugs:

Robin

Kitty, you can tell your SO that he doesn't know when he's well off. As far as I remember, you'll participate with him once a month, but then he's free to do his own thing when you're out, as long as it doesn't interfere with your relationship (sexual or otherwise). I'd give my right arm (not my right leg, that's for wearing heels!) to be in that situation with my wife, and it would ensure that I could keep a balance between CDing and the rest of my life. Who knows, if he respected your conditions for a while, and made sure you enjoyed it too, he might get an extra night from time to time! I hope you've been ensuring that he's reading all these posts!

Btw, where's this queue of GGs lined up round the block clamouring to get a piece of CD action??? Not round my way, that's for sure!

Tony

Thanks everyone, you all make me proud to be a part of this forum. I expected to get honest and helpful answers and that is what I got. It really has changed my life having all of you to talk to. The one thing that is so hard in a relationship is getting to a balance where you are sharing a life but still remain an individual. I hope all of your comments will be taken to heart by my hubby. I have told him about this thread but I do not know if he has read the posts. He as yet has said nothing. I am so tired of conflict and want a life that is comfortable and I want a partner that respects and loves me the way that I love them. This is what we all deserve. Thanks everyone. :love:
Hope you all have a Merry Christmas. I will keep you posted on how things go. :hugs: Kitty

Dear kittypw,

There has been some fantastic responses. A lot of insight as you know is found within the walls of this cyber community. Yes I can feel the love :bighug:

I wasn't going to add my :2c: but I think a big issue has been left out here & I wanted to add my thoughts, I hope that's ok.

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

How often should a spouse or girlfriend have to participate to keep their CD happy? How often should our CD's be the man in our lives? The flip side of the coin is just as important don't you think?

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Firstly you don't have to do anything you don't want or feel comfortable doing.

I see that you care very deeply about your husband or you wouldn't be here, which in that regard you deserve to give yourself a pat on the back.

When feelings of the heart are concerned; when one is deeply committed to another, it can be a roller coaster ride to the extreme, especially when it involves a SO GG and her CD'ing SO. I'm sure you've hear the expression 'we hurt the ones we love most'.

I get the feeling that there is a strong underlaying current of guilt within your posts. Please forgive me if I'm got the wrong impression, but, reading your post, especially your last post...

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Originally Posted by kittypw GG

I want a partner that respects and loves me the way that I love them.

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I get the feeling that you equate your SO's CD'ing to him not loving you or respecting you; does this not make you feel like his wife?

I'm trying to be as tactful as possible kittypw, however, the feeling I get thru your posts is your still very much angry towards your husbands CD'ing +?

I don't know how you two interact with each other at home, but, if your feeling this way, then I'm sure he's picked up on it. If that's the case then I doubt he's going to comply to looking at this forum.

It's seems to me that you like to have thing structured, and that's cool, that's you.

I can only speak for myself, but my CD'ing is anything but structured. Sometimes I don't feel the need to dress for months. Other times I'm full on for a couple of weeks and can't get the thoughts & feelings out of my head.

Let me reiterate, I can tell you love and care for your SO, I just think if you can manage to lighten up a bit and not be so black & white towards your demands then maybe he will realise your not angry at him personally.

Again communication regardless of a CD'ing SO or not is paramount to a healthy, intimate relationship.

Dealing with, confronting and working thru these guilt trips and any other negative influences will make both of you a lot happier in my opinion.

Take care of you :rose2:



hugs

x

beckii

PS I tend to dress more & more often when I'm really stressed out or life in guy mode is not going smoothly. I'm thankful that I can step out of my guy mode into my fem mode, it's definately better than throwing 1/2 a bottle of scotch down my throat & a lot more personally rewarding too.